Thai Protesters Defy State Of Emergency

[webfact]

Thai protesters defy state of emergency

by Anusak Konglang

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thousands of red-shirted Thai protesters seeking to overthrow the government defied a state of emergency in Bangkok on Thursday, planning to stage another major rally in the capital.

Leaders of the tens of thousands of supporters of ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra have warned they are ready for "war" but the authorities have avoided using force to break up the demonstrations.

There was no end in sight to the weeks of political turmoil, with the Red Shirts planning another big gathering on Friday, extending more than three weeks of rolling rallies that attracted 100,000 people at their peak.

"News of an imminent crackdown is normal for us," said Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan. "I want to warn those who want to crack down on democracy protesters: it will not be easy."

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has banned public gatherings of more than five people and given broad powers to police and military under emergency rule announced Wednesday in the capital and surrounding areas.

It is the fourth time since 2008 that a state of emergency has been declared in the capital because of political turmoil.

Tensions have escalated after the Reds forced their way into the parliamentary compound briefly on Wednesday, prompting lawmakers to flee and several senior government figures to be airlifted to safety.

The head office of the Reds' arch-rivals, the royalist "Yellow Shirts", was targeted on Thursday with a grenade and gunfire that wounded one policeman.

Abhisit has cancelled a trip to the United States for a nuclear security summit next week due to the unrest but was due to shuttle back and forth from a two-day summit of Southeast Asian leaders in Hanoi that began Thursday.

Tens of thousands of anti-government protesters have refused to leave Bangkok's main commercial district, where they have been since Saturday, disrupting traffic and causing major stores to shut.

"We have to prepare for another war. If the military comes you should not panic -- just stay put," another Reds leader, Veera Musikapong, told protesters late Wednesday.

Tourist chiefs and business leaders have urged the demonstrators to end their action, warning it is taking a heavy toll on the economy.

The United States also rebuked the protesters.

"We respect the right of freedom of expression," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said Wednesday, but he added "forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

The Red Shirts say the government is illegitimate because it came to power with army backing through a parliamentary vote in December 2008 after a court decision ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

The mainly poor and rural followers of Thaksin, a billionaire telecoms tycoon who lives abroad to avoid a jail term for corruption, fervently support the populist policies he introduced before his ouster in a 2006 coup.

The military has mounted a heavy security response, deploying 50,000 personnel at one point to try to contain the protests, which drew as many as 100,000 people on March 14.

The government wants to avoid a repeat of last April's clashes with Red Shirts that left two people dead, six months after riot police took on the rival Yellow Shirts in bloody scenes outside parliament.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-04-08

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[givenall]

This is a joke. I think by now the government has lost credibility completely. They talk 3 or 4 time on TV claiming of actions, etc.

And now they are all hiding in safe places while people near these idiots Red Shirt are still suffering.

Mr. Ahbisit just resign and let someone who can run government takeover,

[britmaveric]

If you are going to bust up a protest, need to do it from the very beginning. Too bloody late now.

[Calib]

"Thai protesters defy state of emergency"

Did anyone expect anything different?

"Leaders of the tens of thousands of supporters of ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra"

The domestic media ongoing attempt to diminish this Democracy movement to being an exclusive Thaksin thing never abates.

"I want to warn those who want to crack down on democracy protesters"

But they are Thaksin followers.....I am confused?

"several senior government figures to be airlifted to safety".

The Red Shirts are speaking loudly about weapons being found in the Parliament and Suthep's car.......

"Tourist chiefs and business leaders have urged the demonstrators to end their action"

They are from the Amataya. I wouldn't expect anything else.

"......forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

Number one, who cares what the US Govt. says. Their double-standard in the way they treated the Honduras coup from the Thailand coup makes their pronouncement meaningless.

"The Red Shirts say the government is illegitimate because it came to power with army backing through a parliamentary vote"

Right.....so lets get off this self-serving nine-month pedestal and get serious.

"The mainly poor and rural followers of Thaksin"

Where do the thousands of Bangkokians who support the Reds, and all the monks fit into this demographic description. Or is this narrow demographic description designed to be discreditting. You be the judge.

[Thai at Heart]

Shouldn't the headline be:

"Protesters continue as per proven successful protest technique"

It is amazing that the law of the land has no way of being enforced, be it for protests or selling beer during Songkran.

There was the ISA in force before, no one appears to have done anything. Now we have SOE, no one appears to be doing anything. There are rules about people wearing helmets on bikes, but no one appears to really do anything.

The law, police and authorities in this country cannot enforce even the simplest laws of laws to enforce in the country. What hope a complicated one that needs confrontation of the wrong doers.

[anotherpeter]

Shouldn't the headline be:

"Protesters continue as per proven successful protest technique"

It is amazing that the law of the land has no way of being enforced, be it for protests or selling beer during Songkran.

There was the ISA in force before, no one appears to have done anything. Now we have SOE, no one appears to be doing anything. There are rules about people wearing helmets on bikes, but no one appears to really do anything.

The law, police and authorities in this country cannot enforce even the simplest laws of laws to enforce in the country. What hope a complicated one that needs confrontation of the wrong doers.

The SOE actually gives more control of the army/police to the government. Under the ISA, it was the army's/police's decisions in what to do, and they didn't want to be the cause of any violence.

Under the SOE, the cabinet now makes the decisions. The army/police won't be the cause of anything, it now falls on the cabinet.

Anyway, that's how it was explained to me by someone who had it explained to them by one of the ministers.

[Thai at Heart]

Shouldn't the headline be:

"Protesters continue as per proven successful protest technique"

It is amazing that the law of the land has no way of being enforced, be it for protests or selling beer during Songkran.

There was the ISA in force before, no one appears to have done anything. Now we have SOE, no one appears to be doing anything. There are rules about people wearing helmets on bikes, but no one appears to really do anything.

The law, police and authorities in this country cannot enforce even the simplest laws of laws to enforce in the country. What hope a complicated one that needs confrontation of the wrong doers.

The SOE actually gives more control of the army/police to the government. Under the ISA, it was the army's/police's decisions in what to do, and they didn't want to be the cause of any violence.

Under the SOE, the cabinet now makes the decisions. The army/police won't be the cause of anything, it now falls on the cabinet.

Anyway, that's how it was explained to me by someone who had it explained to them by one of the ministers.

It doesn't really matter to me WHO does anything, if the result is doing nothing. You are either leading the country, or you aren't. If you aren't better to find someone who will. I don't expect Suthep to move the protesters one by one himself, but neither do I expect the police or army to follow his orders either.

I am not entirely sure about the complete legal difference between the SOE and the ISA, safe to say, it would appear that like much legal legislation in Thailand it is open to interpretation depending on circumstance.

[Insight]

PTV is out now anyhow.

[geriatrickid]

The SOE actually gives more control of the army/police to the government. Under the ISA, it was the army's/police's decisions in what to do, and they didn't want to be the cause of any violence.

Under the SOE, the cabinet now makes the decisions. The army/police won't be the cause of anything, it now falls on the cabinet.

Anyway, that's how it was explained to me by someone who had it explained to them by one of the ministers.

Really? what changes? The military still holds the "government" positions. General Prawit at Defense. General Prem as President of the Privy Council and a couple other ranks holding positions. Are you telling me that General Anupong is going to start taking orders now from General Prawit? Outside of some specific situations, a junior ranking officer does not give orders to a senior rank. Something about the chain of command. Unless of course the change in decrees means that General Prem et al come under the command of the government and I don't think that's the case.

The mystery player is General Anupong and I think he is going to surprise alot of people.

[moresomekl]

If you are going to bust up a protest, need to do it from the very beginning. Too bloody late now.

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by the military and then abuse of power by a court , both having no business banning a political party in any country that calls itself democratic . Those here who want to know how it is done in a real democracy can read about the story of Richard Nixon in the early 70s (then the president and the head of the republican party) . Basically in Thailand they fought one abuser of power (Thaksin) by perpetrating other abuses of power . Thaksin paid the price and now its the turn of Abhisit , fair and square .

Lets hope for the sake of Thailand that anarchy will not prevail and that Abhisit (or his relief ) can share power with the PTP in a governement of natinal unity and bring about the changes that are so urgently needed

Edited April 8, 2010 by moresomekl

[321niti123]

"Thai protesters defy state of emergency"

Did anyone expect anything different?

"Leaders of the tens of thousands of supporters of ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra"

The domestic media ongoing attempt to diminish this Democracy movement to being an exclusive Thaksin thing never abates.

"I want to warn those who want to crack down on democracy protesters"

But they are Thaksin followers.....I am confused?

"several senior government figures to be airlifted to safety".

The Red Shirts are speaking loudly about weapons being found in the Parliament and Suthep's car.......

"Tourist chiefs and business leaders have urged the demonstrators to end their action"

They are from the Amataya. I wouldn't expect anything else.

"......forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

Number one, who cares what the US Govt. says. Their double-standard in the way they treated the Honduras coup from the Thailand coup makes their pronouncement meaningless.

"The Red Shirts say the government is illegitimate because it came to power with army backing through a parliamentary vote"

Right.....so lets get off this self-serving nine-month pedestal and get serious.

"The mainly poor and rural followers of Thaksin"

Where do the thousands of Bangkokians who support the Reds, and all the monks fit into this demographic description. Or is this narrow demographic description designed to be discreditting. You be the judge.

They are neither democratic nor entirely Thaksin supporters (although they base their support on Thaksin)

ell

To the remark about the US: We should very much care about the US stance in this turmoil, the US is THE most powerful nation on the face of the Earth at the moment, and a single five minute meeting in the white house cna decide the fate of Thailand forever.

you keep talking about double standard...then i ask this, why is it that everyone else has to follow the law when neither the reds nor yellows would

I dont see any monks and the red idealism do support and is made up mainly of the rural poor so it is right to say MAINLY the rural poor.

I am a 17 year old kid and even I understand that if you start inconveniencing people, the people will stop supporting you and that what happened to all the Bangkokian support, therefore I think it is safe to say that support from the people of Bangkok is currently minimalized.(thats what i learn in tok anyways)

I guess my school has the same view as me cuz they are refusing to close down the school even with state of emergency, im pretty sure im breaking the law here sitting in a class of twenty having a conversation about Les Strange. Half my class didnt do their hwk (including me) starying awake checking facebook, school website, email, or sms hoping to get a message from the school saying school is closed.

My school is an international school thats why its still open

[ChiangMaiThai]

Webfact is reporting that PTV is shut down. I'm watching it at uddthailand.com.

[Jingthing]

If you are going to bust up a protest, need to do it from the very beginning. Too bloody late now.

It is hard now, but your bias is transparent. There was no reason to break up the initial phase of the protests. They were peaceful and lawful and of course peaceful lawful protests are a wonderful thing and would only be oppressed by a dictator. Abhisit is no dictator! However, the protests morphed into the illegal with incidents of violence, and wildly strong VERBAL THREATS of violence from the actual LEADERS of the red shirts. Again, no leader of any civilized democratic nation would tolerate a protest at the point it becomes a dangerous, unruly, mob. It is a hard choice but the obvious need is for Abhisit to act against this anarchy or sadly if he cannot or will not, he needs to step down. There is clearly a national consensus in Thailand supporting Abhisit to do this hard thing now. That doesn't mean the government actions should be or need to be violent. That is purely up to the rioters. If they react peacefully to this new situation, everything will be OK. If they resist violently, well, what do you think?

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[chantorn]

"......forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

Number one, who cares what the US Govt. says. Their double-standard in the way they treated the Honduras coup from the Thailand coup makes their pronouncement meaningless.

Was there a coup in Honduras? Did USA treat Thailand differently?

[webfact]

Red shirts with their bare hands to fight emergency rule: Jatuporn

BANGKOK: -- Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan on Thursday vowed to fight with bare hands if the riot force were to disperse the crowds at Rajprasong, saying the protests to continue despite the state of emergency and its draconian security measures.

He was speaking from the rally stage around 8.00 am following a first night camping out under the state of emergency.

"The soldiers are armed but the people will fight with their bare hands - we will not back down before victory," he said.

-- The Nation 2010-04-08

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Sunderland]

There have been a lot of web lies posted.

[pedro01]

Webfact is reporting that PTV is shut down. I'm watching it at uddthailand.com.

Not any more you aren't - blocked.

[webfact]

MCOT: Red Shirts plan no march today, to stage mass protest Friday defying State of Emergency

[whatawonderfulday]

This is a joke. I think by now the government has lost credibility completely. They talk 3 or 4 time on TV claiming of actions, etc.

And now they are all hiding in safe places while people near these idiots Red Shirt are still suffering.

Mr. Ahbisit just resign and let someone who can run government takeover,

Sub-contract the task to the Burmese Generals

[apex2000]

"Thai protesters defy state of emergency"

Did anyone expect anything different?

"Leaders of the tens of thousands of supporters of ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra"

The domestic media ongoing attempt to diminish this Democracy movement to being an exclusive Thaksin thing never abates.

"I want to warn those who want to crack down on democracy protesters"

But they are Thaksin followers.....I am confused?

"several senior government figures to be airlifted to safety".

The Red Shirts are speaking loudly about weapons being found in the Parliament and Suthep's car.......

"Tourist chiefs and business leaders have urged the demonstrators to end their action"

They are from the Amataya. I wouldn't expect anything else.

"......forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

Number one, who cares what the US Govt. says. Their double-standard in the way they treated the Honduras coup from the Thailand coup makes their pronouncement meaningless.

"The Red Shirts say the government is illegitimate because it came to power with army backing through a parliamentary vote"

Right.....so lets get off this self-serving nine-month pedestal and get serious.

"The mainly poor and rural followers of Thaksin"

Where do the thousands of Bangkokians who support the Reds, and all the monks fit into this demographic description. Or is this narrow demographic description designed to be discreditting. You be the judge.

Very well put.

[ChiangMaiThai]

"......forcibly entering government buildings is not an appropriate means of protest."

Number one, who cares what the US Govt. says. Their double-standard in the way they treated the Honduras coup from the Thailand coup makes their pronouncement meaningless.

Was there a coup in Honduras? Did USA treat Thailand differently?

They support coups when it suits them. They don't support democratically elected governments when it doesn't suit them. Biggest hypocrites of them all.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Webfact is reporting that PTV is shut down. I'm watching it at uddthailand.com.

Not any more you aren't - blocked.

Um... yeah. I am. Not blocked. maybe it depends on your isp. So then use anchor free or proxify.

[johncitizen]

The People Channel has been blocked. UDDThailand live stream has been blocked. Prachathai news has been blocked. Siam Report blog has been blocked. And all public television stations are under military control.

Not that any of you see a problem with any of this. Every single one of those protesters could be massacred and you would applaud it. And then a few months afterward, the historical revisionism would start again and you would deny any of it ever happened.

Kind of like Songkran last year, which the Red Shirts presumably started through their violent actions.

Well let me show you something about Songkran last year.

EDIT: Ironically enough, the picture I was trying to link you through to has actually been blocked by this very forum.

Disgraceful.

Edited April 8, 2010 by johncitizen

[Thai at Heart]

PTV off in Roi-et

[webfact]

STATE IN EMERGENCY

Key measures related to the state of emergency

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- In declaring the state of emergency, the government issued altogether six announcements outlining the rules in effect.

Despite the sweeping power under the Emergency Decree, it did not invoke every draconian provision. For example the prime minister did not empower the emergency administrators to declare a curfew.

The key points in the six announcements related to emergency rule are:

- The first announcement is about the state of emergency imposed over Bangkok and five surrounding provinces. The five are Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan (covering six districts), Pathum Thani (five districts), Nakhon Pathom (one district) and Ayutthaya (four districts).

- The second is the granting of extra powers for emergency officials to carry out the followings: detaining suspects up to 30 days, summoning individuals and physical evidence, impounding, censuring mail, prints and telecommunications, banning any activities deemed detrimental to national security, prohibiting individuals from leaving the country, prohibiting aliens from leaving or entering, banning the disruption of traffic, and banning posession or transaction of suspected materials.

- The third is about the appointment of Suthep Thuagsuban in charge of emergeny administration as the director of the Emergency Operations Command. The command is to comprise 27 members, including the defence ministers, military leaders and top security officials.

- The fourt is about the formation of the command and its duties.

- The fifth is the powers entrusted to Suthep and the command. If deemed appropriate, the command is authorised to ban a public assembly of more than five people, censure news and broadcast, ban the certain vehicles and routes, prohibit the entering to certain buildings or locations and evacuate the people.

- The sixth is the jurisdictional transfer of powers entrusted by 18 related laws from relevant ministers to the prime minister during the enforcement of emergency rule. This is meant for the facilitation and centralisation of the emergency administration.

-- The Nation 2010-04-08

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[chantorn]

The People Channel has been blocked. UDDThailand live stream has been blocked. Prachathai news has been blocked. Siam Report blog has been blocked. And all public television stations are under military control.

Not that any of you see a problem with any of this. Every single one of those protesters could be massacred and you would applaud it. And then a few months afterward, the historical revisionism would start again and you would deny any of it ever happened.

Kind of like Songkran last year, which the Red Shirts presumably started through their violent actions.

Well let me show you something about Songkran last year.

I hope Thai people will love each other. Remember the old slogan "Thai Rak Thai"?

After they have been banned, Thai people start to fight with Thai people.

[Jingthing]

No, only the crazies want the red shirts to get hurt. That is an outrageous charge and totally false. Yes, the majority do want the illegal protests dispersed (as peacefully as humanly possible) at this point. It is up to the red shirt leaders, who have declared war against the Kingdom of Thailand, whether they resist violently or accept the government actions to end their illegal protests.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[Sunderland]

No, only the crazies want the red shirts to get hurt. That is an outrageous charge and totally false. Yes, the majority do want the illegal protests dispersed (as peacefully as humanly possible) at this point. It is up to the red shirt leaders, who have declared war against the Kingdom of Thailand, whether they resist violently or accept the government actions to end their illegal protests.

I think that all will become clearer after 20 April. If the Democrats appear to be heading for dissolution then things might calm down for a bit. We might then be headed for a general election, but it would be good if some ground rules were established before another election.

If the democrats remain in power, then this could really drag on and on. Dispersing the protesters will only be a temporary measure unless Thaksin decides to withdraw all support and the redshirts decide it's not worth the hours under the scorching sun anymore.

I think the timeframe for protests could be a few more months rather than a few more days, although possibly interrupted by Songkran and/or violent confrontations.

[Artisi]

The military should go in fully armed, drive 2 or 3 wedges thru the crowd and snatch the red leaders, without these idiots egging-on the masses the rest will go home without their appearance money, it will collapse once it is leaderless.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Artisi

[Old Man River]

The SOE actually gives more control of the army/police to the government. Under the ISA, it was the army's/police's decisions in what to do, and they didn't want to be the cause of any violence.

Under the SOE, the cabinet now makes the decisions. The army/police won't be the cause of anything, it now falls on the cabinet.

Anyway, that's how it was explained to me by someone who had it explained to them by one of the ministers.

That is how I understand it, although I would add that under the SOE the government can skip the police and give orders directly to the military. Of course, at the end of the day, the military may not obey. Anupong refused to disperse the PAD when Samak ordered him to. Hence, the decision to act or not act is ultimately up to the military.