Thai Forces Use Tear Gas, Water Cannon Against Protesters

[geriatrickid]

state of emergency should not be used against the cornerstone of the democratic process - independent mass media.

It is martial law. It is temporary. If this media is used to incite violent insurgency and promote a violent rebellion, it bloody well SHOULD be shut down. The speech from the red leaders became illegal speech. Not all speech is legal, even in the west.

Utter UTTER nonsense - never happens in my country even when you get extreme Muslims saying death to Americans and Europeans - this is absolutely the last thing nthey should have done - muzzle free speach - everyone will see Abhisit as an Army Puppet

Sorry Jingles but you are misguided, once again. If we look to unbiased neutral organizations such as Reporters without Borders, that counts multiple prestigious news reporters amongst its ranks, the USA has a mediocre rating well below other free nations.

It ranks 20th. Look at the silliness that followed Janet Jackson's nipple exposure. The fine was massive. Through a climate of litigation, reduced competition and a near monopoly of ownership, censorship is self imposed. Disney would not want its ABC station broadcasting such things. Nor would Fox, NBC, CBS etc. Despite the prsence of such wackos as the criminal Rush Limbaugh (drugs) and Glen Beck on the extreme right, there really are no instances where an "anti american" non conservative american can express itself. Even the largest Spanish language broadcaster practices self censorship.

[ItsMeMike]

The non-violence and restoring normalcy asap concept were all very noble thoughts and non-acts of Abhisit, and even though I liked him and his ideas in the past, this whole mess has shown that he's no leader. He's simply too nice for the job. (Some would say he's missing a pair).

Letting the reds do and succeed with whatever they want, even though it's declared illegal in advance, was an unforgivable and uncorrectable mistake, I think not even a single arrest has been made so far?

Abhisit, it's probably time to get another job, one where you can be nice. Look into nursing or the likes. (No offense).

Today was a dark red day for democracy in Thailand. Or the idea thereof.

[way2muchcoffee]

I agree they were backed into a corner. It isn't about liking or not liking what they broadcast. It is that what they broadcast was proven lies, inciting people to riot, and making death threats. That is neither legal nor acceptable in every western country. You are mistaken if you believe otherwise.

I seriously doubt any of what was broadcast would incite people to riot. They just sat there like zombies and applauded whatever was said. I think you need to judge the situation as what it is, fiery rhetoric and nothing more. These people are not going to much of anything apart from marchong around the streets unless they are provoked by heavy handed responses. One being shutting down the Red Station.

Imagine if they shutdown ASTV - I think there would be full scale riots by the yellows and they would trash everything.

Well - we already know we disagree. I think people are listening. The whole point of the redshirts wanting PTV to be on air is because they too know that millions of people upcountry are listening.

[dobadoy]

3. They or the people giving them orders are pro-Red/anti-Government - again, worrying, because as in 1., when the security forces decide to act independently according to their own political views rather than being executives of the State (legitimate or not), they fail to be a police force and instead become nothing more than a private gang. This may indeed be the reality. My point is that this is both worrying not just in the short term but in the long term future of Thailand.

Point 3. I was only following orders.....Hmmmm, where have I heard that defense before ?

There is a huge difference between following order that you don't agree with and following order that themselve are illegal. This is a case of the former, not the latter. And that is worrying, as I said before.

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[xminator]

Signal restored! The power of the people has prevailed. A great day for democracy.

http://tweetphoto.com/17730706

If you enjoy listening to North Korean-style commie propaganda.

And the commie propaganda wouldnt matter if the north koreans also let their citizens watching fox news...

This looks a bit like last Songkran. The thaicom disaster can be compared to last years Asean fiasco in Pattaya. The following days also looked like the reds where in controll. Then the army DID strike and the reds spent a few months rebuilding. I think something along those lines will happen this year too. While there sure seems to be a fair share of military and police that dont have the heart in this fight, they are far from actually turning their weapons when the government find the lojal troops they need right now.

Thats why the government will win this in the end. Thats why Abhsit can look forward to another year and a half living his dream while smiling to cameras as Thai PM. And thats the way it have to be so the next government can crack down on whatever colored shirts decide they dont want PT in government in 2011.

[kmj]

Which ever way you cut it, it looks like Reds 1 - 0 Government today.

[JacknDanny]

Although I hate everything the red LEADERS stand for, I am of a mind that Abhisit has lost all creditiblity to run the country. He needs to turn this arond today or do as the reds ask and dissolve the House. I doubt any Yellow or even neutral observers will forgive him for this weakness in the next election.

This is mob rule. It would never have happened under Thaksin (he'd have had the jatuporn et al quietly shot in the night).

I wonder what Sonthi and the Yellow Army are planning? Fight or flight? Has Abhisit's failure led the country into exactly what he was trying to avoid, a civil war?

Good post.

My sentiments exactly. I am afraid that Abhisit is coming across as very weak.

Furthermore, the Govt keeps coming out with strong statements and then backtracking......P!ss weak IMHO

[geriatrickid]

No, regardless of it's truth it is akin to yelling fire

in a crowded room filled with people wearing straw clothes.

Surely some innocents will be injured.

Sure it's truth if there is a fire, but it's also not allowed.

Then charges should have been laid and a case made before a judge. The process used circumvents due process.

The reference is made about yelling fire in crowded theater, well what if there really is a fire? I was watching the Red TV station and just this afternoon another apparent red station where I saw soldiers being cheered and smiling as they walked through a crowd of reds in some provincial areawith some waing and others dcorated in red ribbons (I hope someone will explain that). I was not incited to commit an act of violence. Bored to tears. puzzled but nothing else. I fully agree that if a station is preaching violence something must be done, but it should be done before the courts.

[dobadoy]

On a lighter note, this from the nation:

Around 5.30 pm and before the riot forces making any move, thousands of red shirts beseiged the Police General Hospital, located next to the rally stage and adjacent to the Police headquarters.

In beseiging the hospital, the red shirts wanted to contain the riot forces deployed awaiting instruction inside the police compound.

A line of monks were seen leading as shield for the red shirts while a line of policewomen were deployed to deter the red shirts from advancing.

Under Buddhist disciplinary rules, monks are not allowed physical contacts with females.

The Nation

Only in Thailand could we see female forces leading the front line to fight off monks. Well thought out on both sides! Check, next move?

[hokibob]

The headline should be updated " The reds had recaptured the Thaicom"...The reds had gained so much momentum , I think abhisit time is near..He has insubordination from the military officials... Who is the commander in chief in Thailand ? (for sure its not abhisit)....

[morphem]

It is martial law. It is temporary. If this media is used to incite violent insurgency and promote a violent rebellion, it bloody well SHOULD be shut down. The speech from the red leaders became illegal speech. Not all speech is legal, even in the west.

In the west dude, dictatorship is frowned upon, so you might want to check again your references.

The reds want their voting rights.

The actual dictature wants to shut them up.

Well done reds, the people of Thailand can speak again.

[Ragnarok]

The headline should be updated " The reds had recaptured the Thaicom"...The reds had gained so much momentum , I think abhisit time is near..He has insubordination from the military officials... Who is the commander in chief in Thailand ? (for sure its not abhisit)....

He doesn't have insubordination. The military was ordered not to use force. But now the ante is upped and they will start to use force. Can't wait til they start arresting those leaders!

[dobadoy]

This looks a bit like last Songkran. The thaicom disaster can be compared to last years Asean fiasco in Pattaya. The following days also looked like the reds where in controll. Then the army DID strike and the reds spent a few months rebuilding. I think something along those lines will happen this year too. While there sure seems to be a fair share of military and police that dont have the heart in this fight, they are far from actually turning their weapons when the government find the lojal troops they need right now.

Thats why the government will win this in the end. Thats why Abhsit can look forward to another year and a half living his dream while smiling to cameras as Thai PM. And thats the way it have to be so the next government can crack down on whatever colored shirts decide they dont want PT in government in 2011.

I'm not so sure about this. It all depends on Anupong (not Abhisit). He can certainly find enough Isaan-hating troops to obey the order for a crackdown. But as someone intimated on here the other day, it looks like he's going to surprise a few people. Maybe hie's been promised a pay rise under the new administration...

Incidentally, not far from Siam Square today I saw about a hundred or so BLUE uniformed para-mitlitary style looking troops on motorbikes. They were heading up to Paragon about 4pm.

[landofthefree]

state of emergency should not be used against the cornerstone of the democratic process - independent mass media.

Many now would be convinced, in thailand and abroad, that thailand really is an authoritarian regime state, ruled by the army and police, with disregard to laws

spot on - very bad move - should have let them rant and rave - appalling advice to the PM - clashes now unavoidable - and it isn't going away folks!

Should have let them rant and rave!, I don't see it as ranting and raving, according to the article some protesters managed to force their way into the compound of the broadcaster, which was protected by barbed wire so maybe the security forces used the tear gas and water cannon to diperse them before things escalated.

This could be a sign of worse things to come, lets hope the reds realise this and start going home.

rant and rave on their TV channel - thye do have many valid points - taking them off air will only escalate the problem - watch and see!

This is great news for the red shirts the pictures have gone around the world just watched it on the BBC Troops provoked the reaction the Thai people will not accept this Abhisit will be gone very soon I just hope it doesnt mean Thaksin's coming back

[kmj]

the military seem to pick and choose which government orders they want to follow/reject, do people really think the government is in control of this situation still, if ever...

edit spelling

Edited April 9, 2010 by kmj

[rainman]

As we've seen on television, the police don't seem to be following Abhisit's orders anymore. Several red shirt leaders were negotiating with high ranking police chiefs to return ThaiCom in exchange for PTV to be allowed back on-air. They were not arrested, even though arrest warrants for all of them are out, to be arrested "on sight".

Will be difficult for Abhisit to explain this at the next news conference.

[xminator]

On a lighter note, this from the nation:

Around 5.30 pm and before the riot forces making any move, thousands of red shirts beseiged the Police General Hospital, located next to the rally stage and adjacent to the Police headquarters.

In beseiging the hospital, the red shirts wanted to contain the riot forces deployed awaiting instruction inside the police compound.

A line of monks were seen leading as shield for the red shirts while a line of policewomen were deployed to deter the red shirts from advancing.

Under Buddhist disciplinary rules, monks are not allowed physical contacts with females.

The Nation

Only in Thailand could we see female forces leading the front line to fight off monks. Well thought out on both sides! Check, next move?

Keyword - "SALE 70% OFF!"

[anotherpeter]

This is great news for the red shirts the pictures have gone around the world just watched it on the BBC Troops provoked the reaction the Thai people will not accept this Abhisit will be gone very soon I just hope it doesnt mean Thaksin's coming back

Yes. That's the problem. The prospect of Thaksin coming back.

That's one reason I don't understand why the army doesn't seem to be supporting the government. Red coup?

[rainman]

The "auction" behind the scenes is probably still going on. Abhisit bidding against Thaksin. Whoever pays the most, the army will support. Seems like they're still bidding.

[xminator]

As we've seen on television, the police don't seem to be following Abhisit's orders anymore. Several red shirt leaders were negotiating with high ranking police chiefs to return ThaiCom in exchange for PTV to be allowed back on-air. They were not arrested, even though arrest warrants for all of them are out, to be arrested "on sight".

Will be difficult for Abhisit to explain this at the next news conference.

This is the same as last year. While they wont fight reds, they wont fight green either when Suthep-lojalist military move like last year. The government will win this in the end, just amazing they let themselfs lose face again this year.

Of course, there is always the off chance that there is no Suthep-lojal troops. Like Samak/Somchai-governments struggled in 2008. And the reds run themselfs into the "we can go anywhere, and do anything, what do we do next to top yesterday?". Thats when Suvarnabhumi looks like a nice target again...

[way2muchcoffee]

This is great news for the red shirts the pictures have gone around the world just watched it on the BBC Troops provoked the reaction the Thai people will not accept this Abhisit will be gone very soon I just hope it doesnt mean Thaksin's coming back

Yes. That's the problem. The prospect of Thaksin coming back.

That's one reason I don't understand why the army doesn't seem to be supporting the government. Red coup?

One can only hope that it is a matter of cooler heads prevailing. This thing is a tinderbox. Careers are on the line. And most importantly lives are on the line.

If there weren't enough security forces to do the job and they tried anyway that would have been very bad.

If there were enough security forces to do the job and they didn't have the will then that's another story.

It only takes one on-scene commander to call a retreat out of fear for his life, disloyalty, or whatever.

Edited April 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[britmaveric]

If there were enough security forces to do the job and they didn't have the will then that's another story.

Obviously the govt had enough security forces, but clearly someone isnt listening to their orders.

[way2muchcoffee]

If there were enough security forces to do the job and they didn't have the will then that's another story.

Obviously the govt had enough security forces, but clearly someone isnt listening to their orders.

Speculation at best Brit.

[landofthefree]

Which ever way you cut it, it looks like Reds 1 - 0 Government today.

and as we all know the away goals rule it means that the Bangkokians need to score at least 2-0 in their next game to win. 1-1 is a victory for the away team.

[rainman]

Which ever way you cut it, it looks like Reds 1 - 0 Government today.

and as we all know the away goals rule it means that the Bangkokians need to score at least 2-0 in their next game to win. 1-1 is a victory for the away team.

If it ends 1-0 for the government tomorrow, will there be extra time or does it go straight to penalty kicks?

[way2muchcoffee]

Which ever way you cut it, it looks like Reds 1 - 0 Government today.

and as we all know the away goals rule it means that the Bangkokians need to score at least 2-0 in their next game to win. 1-1 is a victory for the away team.

If it ends 1-0 for the government tomorrow, will there be extra time or does it go straight to penalty kicks?

Let's all hope we can avoid a 'sudden death' scenario.

[dobadoy]

The referree needs to start showing a few more red cards to restore order on the pitch - 7000 or so.

[LevelHead]

I hate to teach people to suck eggs, but please look backwards.

Sondthi, the coup leader who granted himself immunity and said he would never enter politics, who now is in a political party............. (tells you everything)

Sondthi said that he was scared Thaksin would invoke the SOE, as once the SOE is invoked the top brass can be replaced for failing to follow orders.

I think we are seeing a massive fight between Annupong and Abhisit/Suthep.

In order to appear to follow orders its why the Army put up a weak fight, fired some tear gas and then fell back at Thaicom.

Annupong has followed orders so Abhisit and Suthep cannot replace him.

Its all a game but it tells you loud and clear that the invoking of the SOE was a game by Suthep/Abhisit to get rid of Annupong.

We now have the Reds against the Democrats and the Army against the Democrats.

There could well be a coup soon, or more likely Annupong, the man said to be behind getting the small parties to go with the Democrats, will tonight get the small parties to join PTP and get the Democrats kicked out of office.

[shirotsume]

is there any PROOF that tear gar was used actually ?

[kmj]

reported by the BBC at the scene I think.