Red Shirts At Darets's (darrett) Guesthouse, Thapae Gate

[Kitsch22]

A good warning though. Who needs that crap on a holiday?

According to the OP a crap was likely precisely what he needed. His post gave no indication that he conducted any other kind of transaction at Darets. As observed in subsequent posts: "Chaos in motion!"

[lingnoi1977]

What really get's under my (pale blue ) shirt collar about this post:

I made one of the most significant finds of this year in first of the season rambutans at Wororot market only to have 475 views and this OP posts something silly about shirt colour and attracts the hoards ...geez guys, what the!

Seriously though, one of the more silly posts I've seen.

I hope the OP doesn't play golf in San Khampaeng, shop near Pantip, eat near Taphae (again), use the Bangkok Bank ATM, use AIS, or do anything else to directly or indirectly support The Cause.

My guess is that not many of us agree with the past and present political 'ideology' or the wierd and wonderful Thai 'hospitality' but hey - if you are a tourist or live here, you are a 'guest' of the LOS. Act accordingly.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Dear WinnieTheKhwai, do you know what they talking about? Do you UNDERSTAND it?

Yes, of course. And it's in no way different from the stuff that was yelled from PAD stages when they were having their rallies. I find it interesting more than anything else that in a culture that's normally so restrained, we see such over the top yelling when it comes to political rallies. I do find that interesting, mostly because I find just about any aspect of Thailand interesting.

I don't know where you come from but, in any Western country, if you use those words and tactics I hear on the Red Channel TV, that channel will be closed the next day and the people in jail.

Fortunately Thailand is not a Western country. If it was, chances are I wouldn't enjoy it so much and find it so interesting. In addition I've been here long enough that my country of origin does not have a significant effect on who I am as a person. I lived my whole adult life in Thailand. (And it's iffy if you can even judge or stereotype people depening on their nationality; I don't believe in that.)

Believe me. It will NOT survive for 1 day. It is dangerous and disgusting and has NOTHING to do with democracy or free speech from poor people. NOTHING AT ALL.

And that's a perfectly valid point of view, I may even agree. I do however understand why some people would want to fight the status quo in Thailand, and that some people use course language to do so. (Better than violent protests, shooting guns and blocking airports, for starters.)

Anyway, go visit Phuket Laikhram (Suthep road past the Canal Road, left side. Get there before 2pm). It's a great place and they're as yellow as freshly peed on snow. What I found most remarkable about this topic is actually that the Daret family like the Red side.. That's not typical for a middle class Chinese downtown family.

[cmsally]

The owner of Darets has been quite active in local politics and I wouldn't class him as some sort of mafioso type. Personally I would much prefer that people took an active role and interest in politics. The red and yellow TV are just as stir crazy . They play the part of the roadshow pressuring what goes on behind the curtains.

However it seems some people would just prefer that large corporations took over the city with clockwork wage employees not performing outside the corporate mold. Quite frankly if I wanted something that boring and predictable I would be living somewhere else.

May I point out to the OP that McDonalds is just around the corner, I think that will fit his requirements perfectly. Wage slaves to service, heaven forbid they think outside the box.

[Yunnie]

Who cares what they support. Its their choice. Just turn a deaf ear and blind eye to it.

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Yunnie,

We find turning blind ears and deaf eyes to it just as self-protective, on a mental level, but in our human heart we still feel currents of care and sympathy for the trauma this nation is going through.

best, ~o:37;

And I do, but I'm jaded. My major in university is International Relations (how ironic now.. lol). I use to love politics, but dealing with almost a decade of US foreign politics has made me detest almost all things political.

Yes I feel bad for the people who arent doing anything to incite the country to war and are just trying to live their lives and feed their family. I feel bad for all the people that will be affected economically because their store/work place shut down due to fear of riots.

What I dont feel bad for, is people who dont sit back and TRY to understand all sides of an issue before forming an opinion. Narrow-minded views and the "must happen NOW at this exact moment" mentality does nothing good for a country. Also inciting violence is anything but good. When people dont open their minds and use their brains... theres no point. If they arent doing it now... they wont do it ever. Its a waste of breathe and patience.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What you're doing is sad, off the mark and against forum rules, but I'm giving up on reporting posts.

A comparison to Benito Mussolini seems much more fitting. I find the resemblance striking.

[wimpy]

Excuse me? What is against the rules about pointing out the physical similarities between two individuals? Lighten up.

I bet you were a tattletale in school.

What you're doing is sad, off the mark and against forum rules, but I'm giving up on reporting posts.

A comparison to Benito Mussolini seems much more fitting. I find the resemblance striking.

Edited April 10, 2010 by wimpy

[WinnieTheKhwai]

First the News Clippins forum got polluted with offensive and hateful posts like yours, then the General forum. Please don't do it to the Chiang Mai forum.

If you want to put forward a point of view then please do so, but to compare a person that you don't a agree with to a mass murderer is both shameful and stupid and does nothing but spread hate.

Have some respect for the Mussolini's victims please, even if respecting all Thai's viewpoints is too much to ask. Please grow up.

Edited April 10, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[britmaveric]

^hmmmm nothing alike.... one is farang/bald.... other is thai w/hair.

[wimpy]

^hmmmm nothing alike.... one is farang/bald.... other is thai w/hair.

Have you seen the two of them speak??

[chiangmaiexpat]

And it's in no way different from the stuff that was yelled from PAD stages when they were having their rallies.

I had the dubious pleasure of listening extensively to PTV while on a brief visit in Bangkok at the in-laws. Although my Thai is basic, it is sufficient to notice the amount of insults, slurs, and agitation constantly shouted into the microphones. It's quite offensive to any intelligent human being, really. Far worse than ASTV or even the yellow-shirt stage propaganda, which I also found very tiring, but not quite as contaminative. I am surprised their broadcasting license wasn't withdrawn earlier. I'd definitely boycott any shop that exposes its customers to this.

Cheers, CMX

[rixalex]

Dear WinnieTheKhwai, do you know what they talking about? Do you UNDERSTAND it?

Yes, of course. And it's in no way different from the stuff that was yelled from PAD stages when they were having their rallies.

Winnie are you actually fluent in Thai and have you actually taken the time to study footage from both the red and the yellow stages?

[tom21]

Going to the toilet at “Daret’s” guesthouse near Thapae Gate, I noticed the owners and some staff was watching the shouting/yelling Hitler style, “Red Shirt” TV.

Asking if they were supporters, I got the arrogant and aggressive answer “yes, is something wrong with that?”.

More and more businesses openly offend customers by watching, supporting the “red shirt war” paid for by Thaksin.

For sure, we will not go there anymore

asking someone a stupid question a getting upset when they answer is a good one.

[Ulysses G.]

Winnie are you actually fluent in Thai and have you actually taken the time to study footage from both the red and the yellow stages?

There was a thread with a video from YouTube recently with some "fluent Thai speakers" attributing things to Thaksin that were not what he was saying - at all.

A Thai woman protested that they were not correct, but they kept insisting they were. To make a long story short, some folk's "fluent Thai" does not appear to be as "fluent" as they might like you to think.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[rixalex]

Winnie are you actually fluent in Thai and have you actually taken the time to study footage from both the red and the yellow stages?

There was a thread with a video from YouTube recently with some "fluent Thai speakers" attributing things to Thaksin that were not what he was saying - at all.

A Thai woman protested that they were not correct, but they kept insisting they were. To make a long story short, some folk's "fluent Thai" does not appear to be as "fluent" as they might like you to think.

I completely agree that some people who claim to be fluent are obviously not, but i think Winnie is an honest poster and i am happy to accept his answer as being the truth.

[Ulysses G.]

As you well know, I was not referring to Winnie.

[rixalex]

As you well know, I was not referring to Winnie.

Why would you not be refering to Winnie? He was the one claiming to know exactly what level of language has been used on the red and yellow stages. That implies language fluency to me, unless he is getting this information second-hand.

If you want to make accusations, why not state who they are aimed at? It would avoid this unfortunate confusion of you appearing to question a fellow red, which is i'm sure the last thing you want to do.

[daoyai]

If you live in CM and plan to boycott all the red supporting businesses.... you will not be left with many options, think I'll go get a Darets fruit shake and still maintain my my neutrality.

[cardinalblue]

"freedom and honey" This country already as much freedom as one wants/needs. You can do almost anything you want here and with little legal consequences. Now, revenge, dispute settlements. legal recourse, arbitration sttlements, etc those are different stories...

As to honey, plenty of honey around...in fact isn't it kind of Thailand's reputation?

CB

[Ulysses G.]

It would avoid this unfortunate confusion of you appearing to question a fellow red, which is i'm sure the last thing you want to do.

I'm not red, I'm white and - unlike some folks - I am not obsessed with ripping apart either side. I just want things to remain peaceful.

I was pointing out to Winnie that although I don't claim to be "fluent" in Thai, I had no problem figuring out that certain "fluent" Thai-speakers were interpreting that video that I mentioned entirely incorrectly. However, I don't know if they were purposely lying or just did not have a clue.

[rixalex]

I'm not red, I'm white and - unlike some folks - I am not obsessed with ripping apart either side. I just want things to remain peaceful.

I was pointing out to Winnie that although I don't claim to be "fluent" in Thai, I had no problem figuring out that certain "fluent" Thai-speakers were interpreting that video that I mentioned entirely incorrectly. However, I don't know if they were purposely lying or just did not have a clue.

What i took from your post is that people lie about their language fluency just as they lie about their political standpoint.

Still no answer from Winnie.

[Ulysses G.]

What i took from your post is that people lie about their language fluency

They certainly do.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I'm taking on SBKs advice to tone it down a hair or two. It seems silly to debate the topic of course language further when things have worsened to such a degree. So I'm going to let this one go without hunting down some of the more inflammatory PAD speeches out there, see how it compares and then debate that. (in the Chiang Mai forum at that). If anyone likes to believe that PAD rallies features exclusively eloquent reasoned and polite speeches then that's fine with me; it seems a minor point anyway given the recent events.

Coming days I'll be supporting the Wet Shirts only.

[millwall_fan]

Going to the toilet at "Daret's" guesthouse near Thapae Gate, I noticed the owners and some staff was watching the shouting/yelling Hitler style, "Red Shirt" TV.

Asking if they were supporters, I got the arrogant and aggressive answer "yes, is something wrong with that?".

More and more businesses openly offend customers by watching, supporting the "red shirt war" paid for by Thaksin.

For sure, we will not go there anymore.

The TV is at the restaurant and at the guest house check in counter. You have to pass it going to the toilet but it is in public area. We were sitting about 2 tables away and, while I eat, I don't want to listen to those Mafiosi speeches.

Dear WinnieTheKhwai, do you know what they talking about? Do you UNDERSTAND it? Unfortunately for me, I speak/understand Thai and let me tell you this: I have never heard such cruel bad language at ASTV. ASTV not even comes at 10% to it.

I don't know where you come from but, in any Western country, if you use those words and tactics I hear on the Red Channel TV, that channel will be closed the next day and the people in jail. Believe me. It will NOT survive for 1 day. It is dangerous and disgusting and has NOTHING to do with democracy or free speech from poor people. NOTHING AT ALL.

Do me, and others, a favor: record and let someone translate it. Not a normal Thai because they will be ashamed to tell you.

The more we see of your post OP, the more it becomes apparant that far from being a tourist you are an ex pat with an axe to grind against the Red Shirts, and a Yellow Shirt sympathiser. In a democracy, it is your free right to express your views....except of course, that the yellow shirts don't believe in democracy. In fact they would like to disenfranchise a large percentage of the population of Chiang Mai province for not being clever enough to understand the issues and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Many Chiang Mai people find that offensive. I suggest you keep your rather offensive views to the wine bars of Bangkok, rather than vent your spleen on the staff of an inexpensive guest house like Darrets.

[rixalex]

I'm taking on SBKs advice to tone it down a hair or two. It seems silly to debate the topic of course language further when things have worsened to such a degree. So I'm going to let this one go without hunting down some of the more inflammatory PAD speeches out there, see how it compares and then debate that. (in the Chiang Mai forum at that). If anyone likes to believe that PAD rallies features exclusively eloquent reasoned and polite speeches then that's fine with me; it seems a minor point anyway given the recent events.

Coming days I'll be supporting the Wet Shirts only.

I don't recall anyone saying that the PAD speeches were eloquent, reasoned and polite. I recall you saying that the strength of the language used on the red and the yellow stages was the same. It's a claim that would either require a high degree of fluency in Thai, or it's claim based on second-hand information. I simply asked which and you still haven't answered.

In terms of recent events making this discussion seem minor, i think needless death makes everything seem minor.

[Tywais]

It's a claim that would either require a high degree of fluency in Thai

Not at all. It just requires knowledge of a subset of the Thai language. My case for example, I spent my first year in Thailand over 40 years ago and lived in a poor small village on the Eastern seaboard. That combined with visits to various Thai night clubs in Bangkok my mental dictionary knew most of the most vile, profane words and phrases in the Thai language and I was hardly fluent at that time. I don't know Winnie's skill level but do know you don't have to be fluent to recognize inappropriate language.

[simpathy]

If you Google greatest orators in history, Hitler will usually be there.

did he use a teleprompter like , you know who

[rixalex]

It's a claim that would either require a high degree of fluency in Thai

Not at all. It just requires knowledge of a subset of the Thai language. My case for example, I spent my first year in Thailand over 40 years ago and lived in a poor small village on the Eastern seaboard. That combined with visits to various Thai night clubs in Bangkok my mental dictionary knew most of the most vile, profane words and phrases in the Thai language and I was hardly fluent at that time. I don't know Winnie's skill level but do know you don't have to be fluent to recognize inappropriate language.

I don't disagree Tywais that even at a fairly basic level, it is possible to identify certain words in amongst a lengthy speech, but to confidently make a comparison about the level, intensity and strength of rhetoric from two different political groups' speeches given in a foreign language, i would personally only do so had i a high degree of fluency. If others feel confident to make claims without a high degree of fluency then up to them. It does however affect the credibility of the claim - in my eyes, if not yours.

(I hasten to add that i have made no assumptions about Winnie's language skills. I have no idea what level he is at. Perhaps he is highly fluent. Until he answers the question i just don't know.)

[LomSak27]

For sure, we will not go there anymore.

- I haven't eaten there since 93, although hey, maybe I was too hard on them.

The fact is many of the red rally speeches do indeed sound Hitlerian. I agree with the OP on that observation.

From this comment I can assume you never tuned in the yellows at the airport on that live feed a year and a half ago. If you did you would know that Fascist snarling seems to be part and parcel of debate, rabble rousing, for both sides.

[rixalex]

I don't know Winnie's skill level but do know you don't have to be fluent to recognize inappropriate language.

One more point on this subject Tywais. In my first year in Thailand i picked up the rather vulgar word for crap, "kee". After picking it up, i started noticing people using it an awful lot: "kee motorcy", "kee mao", "kee niow". What rude people i thought! To my ears at that time, it sounded like i was hearing the same word.