Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[zorro1]

CNN reporting 19 dead and likely to rise. All very very sad. However what is the army to do? When a peaceful. protest turns violent they must prevent anarchy and protect it citizens

[lannarebirth]

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

Covering the cameras at the Plenchit BTS station.

On the heels of Jatuporns orders to attack all BTS stations and threat to derail the skytrain. Yeah, that's not a provocation towards the millions of peaceful Bangkok inhabitants.

Edited April 11, 2010 by lannarebirth

[moresomekl]

I looked a lot of videoclips about the last night from different sources. But everywhere I saw that the army are in defense, run away & "SHOT in THE AIR"!!! But the red shirts are the real agressors!!! The explosions are all the time on the soldiers site and in some clips I saw a lot of redshirts with guns in their hands.

I surprised that some people wrote the army kill the people. I'm not so shure about it!!!

It was very interesting if the medical center give more information out about what the people die and the most wounded and how much soldiers got shooting wounds.

As people have mentioned, if you fire even rubber bullets at close range they are lethal. Therefore, if you are a soldier with apparently incompetent commanders they give you non-lethal ammunition and allow you to get into close proximity with the protest so that in order to save lives you have to shoot into the air.

If red was shooting red, don't you think that that story would run through the protesters like wildfire? 500 baht or not, I don't think I would stay around to protest if I thought my own side might shoot me for the publicity.

I think it far more logical to believe that an under trained army got caught in close proximity street violence and protesters got shot either by rubber bullets at close range or live ammunition. Do you honestly believe that there wasn't any live ammunition used yesterday? This is an army breaking up serious street protests. They need to have live ammunition available simply for their own protection.

No they dont need live ammunition at all .

If that why not use RPG and flame thrower

Besides there is no need to send the army .

Police with water canon and tear gas/sound gear

is enough.

[anotherpeter]

BreakingNews: Protesters in Thailand say they will not negotiate with government, a day after clashes kill 18 - AP

All these people dead and the red leaders will still not negotiate.

Statement after statement coming from the reds STILL advocating confrontation.

How many more need to die?

[bubba]

Reds are moving on Thaicom now. According to some tweets I have seen, there is already pushing and shoving going on.

[anotherpeter]

No they dont need live ammunition at all .

If that why not use RPG and flame thrower

Besides there is no need to send the army .

Police with water canon and tear gas/sound gear

is enough.

Water cannons and tear gas were not enough at Thaicom on Friday.

The reds still kept pushing, still kept attacking.

Even after last night, the reds will still not negotiate with the government.

Now they have soldiers as hostages!!

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit really doesn't have many choices, nor would any other person in his place. It is easy to sit and critique the guy, but fact is, I don't think anyone could have done much better! It is simply the situation that makes his job so impossible.

I agree. He is a good man doing the best he can with an impossible situation. The redshirts know that a protest without civil disobedience rarely changes anything and Abhisit has to protect downtown businesses and the economy.

Let us hope that everyone concerned can come to peaceful solution.

You think your business is safe because you sided with them? Think again.

I think you need to read his post again!

[granuaile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8XHyyRUbNA

Reds re-enact tianamen square sitting in front of tanks here.

You know, Tiananmen was much misreported in the West. I saw images of soldiers beaten with bricks. A more apt comparison would be Kwangju, South Korea in 1980. But big difference .. Kwangju the demonstrators were right.... Tiananmen, Bangkok 201o, they were not so noble...

[moresomekl]

Can you imagine a PM in the UK serviving after his own military did this to Englishman?

NO

807 imjured.

over 15 dead.

The military opened up with Military fast fire rifles on Thai people.

So much for that nonsense about Thais love thai.

Obviously there was not much love in this case.

Of course not .

If the dems in Thailand hope to win the next election let alone with Abhisit

at the helm they are heavily smoking and its not Philip Morris standard issue

[Tolley]

Unfortunately for Thailand it is really a story of business as usual given the number of coups and uprisings over the last 50 years.

The writing was on the wall when the yellow shirts got their way last year. There was always going to be a time when the red shirts decided to up the ante.

If the reds don't backdown there may not be any other option than to dissolve parliament and install a military government.

[way2muchcoffee]

My Taxi driver gave me the going Daily rates:

Pick-Up - 5,000 Baht

Taxi - 2,000 baht

Motorcycle or Tuk-Tuk - 1,000 Baht

Demonstrator - 500 Baht.

Funeral - Send the bill to Thaksin, but don't hold your breath!!!

CS

The government last night announced that they would make reparations to all injured/killed.

20,000 bt for hospitalized up to 20 days

40,000 bt for hospitalized for longer than 20 days

Up to 100,000 bt for long-term hospitalization

400,000 bt for families of deceased

Korn announced compensation to small business owners who's business has been damaged by the demonstrations.

These are small measures, but at least someone is thinking about long-term effects and willing to make reparations.

Edited April 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rametindallas]

After 1 month of peaceful protesting this was bound to happen, something better happen soon before it gets worse.

really dont see how much worse it can get but this has hit every news outlet and paper world wide - so much for the future of tourism in the LOS - as usual the army claim they were using rubber bullets but a doctor was qouted that one for the dead at least was killed by a live round -- and rubber bullets dont kill unless they hit a vital place like eyes etc -- plain to see that the troops were aiming directly at the reds with intent to cause max damage - sure the reds responded with what weapons they had at their disposal-- but they army knew that the used of tear gas would prompt this sort of response -- violence begets violence - this is not the end of this story for sure -- spoke to a freind with thai airways this morning -- lots of farang trying to leave the country right now - - and so much for another happy thai new year - so so sad to see -- seems now that neither side is going to back down --and the power brokers are gonna hang on to what power they have - why not call for an election - the whole is watching to see what the outcome is going to be to this terrible chapter in the ongoing political strife in this country -- the major theme of the overseas news articles is that its a case of the rural poor against the elite bangkokinans -- the typical class struggle -- and the fact that this govt is a puppet for the military following the last coup --- maybe good time for another one - which would at least force another election and bring an end to all of this bloodshed

dude...Seriously, you need to proof-read what you write before you post. quote "plain to see that the troops were aiming directly at the reds with the intent to cause max damage". If this statement were even remotely true there would be hundreds of dead and wounded. Also, how 'plain to see' was anything in those poor quality videos. Dude, your're pushing an agenda and the facts obviously mean nothing to you. That makes you a propagandist in my book. You are officiall on my 'don't waste your time reading' list. Enjoy your revolution; I hope your side loses for the sake of the other 99+% of Thais who don't approve of all this provacative, violent behavior.

[chadintheusa]

They're heading back to Thaicom, haven't they learned a single thing

[Mitker]

Hello Moresomekl,

Currently downtown BKK. Thank you.

No disapointment here since obviously you forgot your former posts (the original one I was responding to as well as the one suggesting my post "fake"). Did they disapear by chance or on purpose?

Refreshing your memory:

You stated:

"no other democratic countries in the world would have a change of majority without general election . And thats a fact. Coalition or not . The only way to remove an elected governement is through either new general elections or a coup ... in a democracy that is"

I simply proved you wrong by mentionning Belgium went through several changes of majority and/or coalitions during term, without elections or coup. Majority means the parties of your coalition represent 50%+ of the parliament votes. Having the same coalition leading party was not the point, referring to your above post (and from any other point). But I understand it can be an easy diversion exit for you. Sorry if you put yourself in an uncomfortable position with your rushed statements.

While concerning Thailand, the change in the majority leading party happened by the defection of the "Friend's of Newin" group of MPs switching allegiance. Still nothing illegal or never heard of in Thai political arena.

Advices:

1- stick to the points you mentionned in your own former posts when trying to counter facts presented to you by other people. You'll seriously gain in consistency and credibility.

2- think twice before publicly suggesting someone else is a liar just because he didn't reply your post within minutes. It's slightly arrogant and doesn't put you in a very favorable light.

Have a nice day.

Samak, Somchai and Abhisit have all been PM after the coup.

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

Were these changes of coalitions the direct result of a military coup? I don't think so...

Hey Mitker

Nice to see you here . How is it in your country , Belgium , yu said ?

Well Belgium has been governed by a catholic party led coalition for the last

60 years . At every general election they are voted in .

Sorry to disapoint you but there no relation whatsoever

with the Abhisit illegitimate regime . Nor with the thai situation by

any strech of imagination.

[elcent]

Another thing to mention is that all the grenades used for months, also yesterday, is army material. What about a script that needs to have the army acting more agressively and that roots from within the army? Who are the script writers? You can be almost certain some yellows have their take as well. I think it's safe to say that their are some of the army and police personel committing treason on behalf of the script writers.

Also Thaksin is deeply involved in that scheme.

[moresomekl]

No they dont need live ammunition at all .

If that why not use RPG and flame thrower

Besides there is no need to send the army .

Police with water canon and tear gas/sound gear

is enough.

Water cannons and tear gas were not enough at Thaicom on Friday.

The reds still kept pushing, still kept attacking.

Even after last night, the reds will still not negotiate with the government.

Now they have soldiers as hostages!!

As I said there was no need to remove off the air the red TV .

While the PAD one is spitting lies of the same caliber without

problem . And while Abhisit owns so many TV channels that he can easily

do some counter propaganda .

Banharn told clearly his misgivings about doing that but Abhisit

would not listen .

Of course the red will not negociate . You really dont understand the

determination of this movement do you ?

Even Thaksin dies tomorrow of cancer , it would continue , trust me

First negociate with who ? They dont even consider Abhisit as beein the legal

prime minister of THailand . THat why you need a governement of national unity

to talk to them .

Secund they wont believe any promise made by Abhisit . He is well know as beeing

a puppet .

And thirdly now there is bloodbath between the 2 parties .

If Abhisit loves THailand he must resign

[anotherpeter]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

[lannarebirth]

Abhisit really doesn't have many choices, nor would any other person in his place. It is easy to sit and critique the guy, but fact is, I don't think anyone could have done much better! It is simply the situation that makes his job so impossible.

I agree. He is a good man doing the best he can with an impossible situation. The redshirts know that a protest without civil disobedience rarely changes anything and Abhisit has to protect downtown businesses and the economy.

Let us hope that everyone concerned can come to peaceful solution.

You think your business is safe because you sided with them? Think again.

I think you need to read his post again!

I've read ALL his posts, and I know what civil disobedience is, and is not. They goad them on till the only outcome a rational person could expect occurs and the "oh my, let's seek a peaceful solution". It all sounds disingenuous and self serving at this late hour. Where was the peace symbol last month or last week or even yesterday?

[chadintheusa]

We have seen what is in the hearts of the protesters, mayhem and violence. They need to face justice, the PM owes that to the rest of his citizens.

[grandpops]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

You are unbelievable mate.

Turn the signal on.. It's easy. OR, turn off ASTV and get the army out of chanal 2 5 7 11 etc.

Oppresive regimes the world over block signals etc.

It's also worth noting that the reds have the balls in this set to.

[anotherpeter]

As I said there was no need to remove off the air the red TV .

While the PAD one is spitting lies of the same caliber without

problem . And while Abhisit owns so many TV channels that he can easily

do some counter propaganda .

Banharn told clearly his misgivings about doing that but Abhisit

would not listen .

Of course the red will not negociate . You really dont understand the

determination of this movement do you ?

Even Thaksin dies tomorrow of cancer , it would continue , trust me

First negociate with who ? They dont even consider Abhisit as beein the legal

prime minister of THailand . THat why you need a governement of national unity

to talk to them .

Secund they wont believe any promise made by Abhisit . He is well know as beeing

a puppet .

And thirdly now there is bloodbath between the 2 parties .

If Abhisit loves THailand he must resign

The red TV is the main source of the red leaders spouting violent rhetoric and lies. It shouldn't be allowed in any country, let alone one that is tense as this.

"PAD lies"? They have been silent.

"Abhisit owning television stations"? That's not even red propaganda. That's complete crap.

"You really dont understand the determination of this movement do you ?"

I understand the determination. As one of their leaders said today

THE NATION: "We will carry on with appropriate measures so our (red shirts') losses will be worthwhile," Nattawut said.

They are determined for more losses.

[humfurry]

"Can you imagine a PM in the UK serviving after his own military did this to Englishman?

NO"

Margret Thacher

[hanuman1]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

Calm down Peter, and don't take every report you hear so seriously. The general quality of reporting on ThiaVisa has been poor. When someone says '.....the protesters plan to force their entrance.....', consider what the source of this statement is. Did any red leaders actually say that? Is it 2nd/3rd/4th hand information? Who wrote it?

If you can't be bothered to consider the veracity of all the things your read on here, then here's a special message just for you: It's all over and the world is at peace now.

[Brocher]

◆19 killed, 825 injured in Thailand political violence BANGKOK, April 11 KYODO The death toll from Saturday's political violence in Bangkok, the worst in 18 years, has risen to 19, with another 825 injured, according to Bangkok's medical emergency operation center.

Besides antigovernment protesters, the fatalities included at least five soldiers and one foreigner, Hiroyuki Muramoto, a Japanese television cameraman for Reuters news agency who was shot in the chest.

Following the bloodbath and finger-pointing by both sides, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva regretted the violence and casualties and called for negotiations to achieve a peaceful solution to the crisis.

But the protesters, who had previously been demanding that Abhisit dissolve Parliament and hold an election, declared that the time for negotiations is over and said Abhisit and others held responsible for Saturday's ''massacre'' must either leave the country or be killed.

''We will never negotiate with the government again because the government ordered the massacre,'' opposition lawmaker and protest leader Jatuporn Promphan told followers Saturday night.

This Jatuporn's a real sweetheart...... but of course he knows he has parliamentary immunity so can be as outrageous and inflammatory as he likes

[Jerrytheyoung]

Unfortunately for Thailand it is really a story of business as usual given the number of coups and uprisings over the last 50 years.

The writing was on the wall when the yellow shirts got their way last year. There was always going to be a time when the red shirts decided to up the ante.

If the reds don't backdown there may not be any other option than to dissolve parliament and install a military government.

Careful to what you write....The situation is different and if there is a Coup there is a possibility of Thailand Northern part entering in insurgency.(Do not forget that Army is also a mosaic)....I support discussions and Peace orientations and I prefer not seeing this possibility surfacing.

[MellowYellow]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

Dude! CHILLAX!

Switch to decaff for the rest of the afternoon.

I am a tacit red supporter (That support is waning rapidly as the crazies get even crazier. My criticism of the government is not waning though).

No reasonable person, imo, can explain logic in it, other than the red leaders have well and truly lost their minds.

Now, it still takes 2 to tango.

The military/government response shall be important to watch.

AFAIK, Thaicom was heavily reinforced yesterday and the physical barriers should allow for non deadly defense on the station.

Will the troops keep it non-deadly?

Both the red leaders and the military, from last night's actions seem intent on turning it into a full on civil war.

If the red leaders have lost it, then the responsibility lies with the government to stop the fire from raging hotter and faster, and that does NOT mean escalate the violence!

[snorkelador]

No they dont need live ammunition at all .

If that why not use RPG and flame thrower

Besides there is no need to send the army .

Police with water canon and tear gas/sound gear

is enough.

Water cannons and tear gas were not enough at Thaicom on Friday.

The reds still kept pushing, still kept attacking.

Even after last night, the reds will still not negotiate with the government.

Now they have soldiers as hostages!!

As I said there was no need to remove off the air the red TV .

While the PAD one is spitting lies of the same caliber without

problem . And while Abhisit owns so many TV channels that he can easily

do some counter propaganda .

Banharn told clearly his misgivings about doing that but Abhisit

would not listen .

Of course the red will not negociate . You really dont understand the

determination of this movement do you ?

Even Thaksin dies tomorrow of cancer , it would continue , trust me

First negociate with who ? They dont even consider Abhisit as beein the legal

prime minister of THailand . THat why you need a governement of national unity

to talk to them .

Secund they wont believe any promise made by Abhisit . He is well know as beeing

a puppet .

And thirdly now there is bloodbath between the 2 parties .

If Abhisit loves THailand he must resign

Taking PTV off air was one of the last attempts of the government to stop the red leaders inciting violence (e.g. doctored audio tape of Abhisit) not only by spreading dangerous lies, but by asking for riots (petrol bombs etc.)!

If the red shirt leader would care about Thailand and Thai people more than about power and money, they would not have set them up for that bloodbath. With the way things were going it was inevitably going to lead to a bloodshed and they fully accepted the risk at the least!

[mommysboy]

can somebody explain to me how over 250 soldiers got wounded, most by gunshots and grenades?

?? The red shirt TERRORISTS have the grenades and have weapons with real bullets not plastic as used by the army.

I respect the PM for what he has done he has played it well with warning after warning request after request, Agreed to hold elections. What more can he do???

But still it was not good enough for the terrorists. I hope they get another round of smacking later today. Quite frankly they deserve everything they are getting.

Herein, lies the problem, about 50% of people probably think that way too, but the other half reckon the present government is unelected and came to power through a junta. Further, all the reds wanted was a free election, the yellows didn't. Why, because they always lose. When they lose they create dirty tricks leading all the way to a coup.

[siampolee]

This Jatuporn's a real sweetheart...... but of course he knows he has parliamentary immunity so can be as outrageous and inflammatory as he likes

Until such time as parliament is dissolved then immunity vanishes.

Perhaps in truth Jutaporn doesn't want a house dissolution.

[Bkung]

This morning I saw channel 3 morning news which took the shot at hospital to my

surprise a farang wearing red shirt injured sitting on the wheel chair!

What the he*l

he's doing to joining the protesters, he does't have any rights to involved at first place at all.