Thailand: Our Darkest Hour

[VegasVic]

What do you expect them to do mate? The contry is being taken over by a violent mob wnich refuses to obey the law. No one wants bloodshead but you cannot expect the Govt & Army to sit on their hands forever. Numerous warnings were given.

Juz, Are you refering to the yellow shirts who took siege of the airport in this post of yours

My opinion of things was exactly the same when that happened. The then Govt should have has some balls about them and not let an angry mob take over the airport. I'm no political expert but you can't run a country on mob rule. I've had numerous discussions with the missus about this (Thai - Suphanburi, pro Reds) and it's not about who's right or wrong, it's about the Govt making a stand and saying 'no more mob rule crap' elections in 9 months and thats the end of it.

Fair enough Juzz

[geriatrickid]

The extreme faction of red shirts is led by a former Major General who is familiar with military tactics. The reds of this faction mingled with the other protesters and used guns and grenades to target army commanders. This former officer is a traitor to the Thai military and should be ashamed of himself for targeting his fellow soldiers. Thai army personnel are Thai citizens and many would come from the North. What good comes from killing them?

What I don't understand is why havn't the army put him in the stockade & charged him with treason.

Because it suits their purpose?

[Artisi]

The extreme faction of red shirts is led by a former Major General who is familiar with military tactics. The reds of this faction mingled with the other protesters and used guns and grenades to target army commanders. This former officer is a traitor to the Thai military and should be ashamed of himself for targeting his fellow soldiers. Thai army personnel are Thai citizens and many would come from the North. What good comes from killing them?

What I don't understand is why havn't the army put him in the stockade & charged him with treason.

Because it suits their purpose?

And what might that be?

[siampolee]

Former PM Somchai Wongsawat presided over the ceremony.

Fugitive former MP Thaksin Shinawatra issued a statement later expressing condolences for the bloodshed but blamed Prime Minister Abhisit for causing the loss of lives.

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh also expressed his condolences and urged Abhsit to take responsibility for "mishandling" the protest.

Three more people wanting to get their hands into the pork barrel again.

[rogerdee123]

I support the position of the Nation in what is a call for dialog. Today is not the day to accuse anybody about the responsability of the events. Today, we have to support the efforts of cooling down the situation. Too many people are deaf and are not listening the arguments of the other side. So difficult... We have to take on ourselves to avoid flaming the positions.

Nobody want Thailand slip into anarchy and Civil war. I wish reason will prevail.

The Nation calls for dialogue now to protect its credibility. I believe many journalists are quite angry with the Nation and its bias and constant drumbeat for intervention. Abhisit was prepared to wait the Reds out and his strategy was beginning to pay off. The Reds were tired and numbers dropping. As I see it, minister Korn and the army acted in a manner contrary to the initial strategy set out by Abhisit. Let's face it, had minister Korn and others not threatened to undermine the PM, the waiting came could have continued. Now the Nation has blood on its hands. Yes, I said it. The Nation and its owner(s) are no dfferent than the Hearst newspapers that pushed for a Spanish American war with biased "news" reports and a barrage of opinion pieces. The Nation and a great many so called news analysts/journalists (hello TAN) will be held accountable by their peers in the world.

Personally I think the nation's twitter news is the only credible up to the minute reporting (is there another one I am unaware of?). If the nation's "peers" (and by this I mean other credible newspapers or wire services) are so upset about bais reporting by the nation, why doesn't one of them start up a similar twitter service. Almost everyone (including me) would welcome it. I guess they haven't because they don't think the nation's twitter service is so bad. As has been said before by other posters .... readers of the news need to learn how to separate fact from opinion.

Edited April 12, 2010 by rogerdee123

[rogerdee123]

Former PM Somchai Wongsawat presided over the ceremony.

Fugitive former MP Thaksin Shinawatra issued a statement later expressing condolences for the bloodshed but blamed Prime Minister Abhisit for causing the loss of lives.

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh also expressed his condolences and urged Abhsit to take responsibility for "mishandling" the protest.

Three more people wanting to get their hands into the pork barrel again.

We don't need Mr. T's bio and a couple of days ago Big Jiew's (Chavalit) bio was posted in another thread. But I feel that many readers of these TV forums don't really know who Somchai (Mr. T's brother in law) is. So I offer the followinf copied from Wikipedia :

Somchai Wongsawat (Thai: สมชาย วงศ์สวัสดิ์, born August 31, 1947) is a Thai politician, as well as former executive member of the People's Power Party (PPP) whose political rights have been revoked by the Constitutional Court (ConCourt) for five years.

Prior to entering electoral politics, he had served civil service and judicial service, having been appointed Permanent Secretary of Justice (the highest non-elected position in the civil service) in 2000 by the government of Chuan Leekpai. Following his retirement from office in 2006 owing to the pensionable age, he entered politics after the 2006 coup unseating the government of his brother-in-law, Thaksin Shinawatra. He joined the PPP which won the December 2007 parliamentary elections, becoming Minister of Education and Senior Deputy Prime Minister. After the premiership of Samak Sundaravej had been terminated by the ConCourt for contravening the conflict of interests law, Somchai was successfully nominated Prime Minister. His government had to deal with the 2008 Thailand political crisis as well as the global financial crisis of 2008, and the PPP was eventually dissolved by the ConCourt and its executive members, including Somchai, were prohitibited from politics for five years for vote-buying committed by Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

Somchai was born at Amphoe Chawang, Nakhon Si Thammarat Province, a son of Mr Choem (Thai: เจิม) and Mrs Dap (Thai: ดับ) Wongsawat. He is a brother-in-law of Thaksin Shinawatra, having married Yaowapha Wongsawat (Thai: เยาวภา วงศ์สวัสดิ์), the former prime minister's sister .[1] The couple have three children, Mr Yotthanan Wongsawat (Thai: ยศธนัน วงศ์สวัสดิ์), Ms Chinnicha Wongsawat (Thai: ชินณิชา วงศ์สวัสดิ์) and Ms Chayapha Wongsawat (Thai: ชยาภา วงศ์สวัสดิ์).

Somchai's wife Yaowapha previously served as an MP in the Thai Rak Thai Party led by her older brother, Thaksin Shinawatra. Like one hundred and ten other members of the party, she was barred from participating in politics for a five-year period by the order of the Constitutional Tribunal for violation of election laws.

A member of the People Power Party, he was the deputy leader of the Party in 2007 and held office as the Minister of Education in the Next Year[3] and Senior Deputy Prime Minister[1].

Somchai became the Prime Minister on 9 September 2008, upon the Constitutional Court's decision that the premiership of Samak Sundaravej had been terminated for his having been intermittently employed as the emcee of two cooking shows while in office, in violation of the law.

Somchai, on 17 September 2008, was elected Prime Minister of the Country by the the National Assembly, receiving 298 favorable votes, more than the 163 votes for Abhisit Vejjajiva.[4] .[5] [6]

On October 7, 2008, protesters attempted to hold 320 parliamentarians and senators hostage inside the Parliament building, cutting off power, and forcing Somchai Wongsawat to escape by jumping a back fence after his policy address. But other trapped legislators failed to leave and flee from the demonstration. The 6-week sit-in and siege on the area beside the near prime minister’s office forced the government to transfer its activities to a former international airport. Eventually, police forcibly pushed back the demonstration; thousands were injured, and two protestor died.[8][9]

On September 29, Thailand's Election Commission spokesman Ruangrote Jomsueb said a subcommittee would investigate Somchai (30 days probe, to the Constitutional Court) per Senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattanaon's complaint on "whether Somchai violated the constitution by holding shares in Thailand's CS LoxInfo PCL, an Internet service provider that is a contract partner of CAT Telecom, a state-owned telecommunications service provider." The Thai constitution bars parliament members from holding shares in companies that do business with state enterprises, and if found guilty, Somchai would be disqualified as parliament member and ousted as prime minister.[10][11][12]

On October 17, Thailand's anti-corruption body found Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat guilty of neglecting his duties while working in the justice department eight years ago. Members of the National Counter Corruption Commission said Somchai was wrong to suspend a corruption investigation into two senior officials while he was a permanent secretary at the justice ministry in 2000. The NCCC's investigation followed a complaint lodged by senior judge Chamnan Rawiwanpong after he petitioned for an investigation into alleged corruption involving a land sale in Phatum Thani province in 2000.

After the petition, Somchai set up a disciplinary panel, accusing Chamnan of serious wrongdoing and recommending he be fired, prompting Chamnan to make the counter-complaint.

[LevelHead]

Looks like someone has finally bitten back at the BP and TN about their irresponsible bias for many years in supporting the yellow and being anti red. TN is always accused of being yellow, and does not really attempt to hide it if you read their articles and opinon, and BP has yellow owners which explains their actions, is what many say

http://<URL Automatically Removed>/2...r-f-k-up-lives/

.

Also saw a letter in the BP today moaning about their bias. Perhaps the BP owners have decided that with most of the country sympathetic to the reds now, it might be better for sales to be a little less biased ?

[SomTumTiger]

Most of the country is sympathic to the reds?

[TiredTeacher]

This is starting to become a planned and targeted guerrilla war in the capital.

Today we see the kidnapping of the CEO of CAT. Before we had a few soldiers kidnapped etc... now it is at an escalated level. If this carries on: kidnapping and ransom of top power people... moving to street by street conquests e.g. top shopping centers, regional government and army head quarters, rich business people etc. It is the end of any stability for many years!

Before it escalates to a high blood price, where even the leaders of this will not be able to stop it i.e. local "rebel" commanders and govt have no control of the foot soldiers of all sides, something needs to be done.

We haven't got to that point yet.... But at that point your paper money is worthless, your lands and assets can be taken to pay for the "war". Farang/Thai it will not make a difference at that point!

[TITI1971]

This is starting to become a planned and targeted guerrilla war in the capital.

Today we see the kidnapping of the CEO of CAT. Before we had a few soldiers kidnapped etc... now it is at an escalated level. If this carries on: kidnapping and ransom of top power people... moving to street by street conquests e.g. top shopping centers, regional government and army head quarters, rich business people etc. It is the end of any stability for many years!

Before it escalates to a high blood price, where even the leaders of this will not be able to stop it i.e. local "rebel" commanders and govt have no control of the foot soldiers of all sides, something needs to be done.

We haven't got to that point yet.... But at that point your paper money is worthless, your lands and assets can be taken to pay for the "war". Farang/Thai it will not make a difference at that point!

remember the "kidnapping" at BKK airport in 2008....

[chantorn]

In 2007 a Japanese freelance video journalist was shot dead in neighbouring Myanmar while he covered the regime's bloody crackdown on demonstrations.

Japan dispatched investigators to Yangon and cancelled nearly five million dollars in aid to protest the junta's crackdown and the journalist's death.

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/37579

FYI

[chantorn]

This is starting to become a planned and targeted guerrilla war in the capital.

Today we see the kidnapping of the CEO of CAT. Before we had a few soldiers kidnapped etc... now it is at an escalated level. If this carries on: kidnapping and ransom of top power people... moving to street by street conquests e.g. top shopping centers, regional government and army head quarters, rich business people etc. It is the end of any stability for many years!

Before it escalates to a high blood price, where even the leaders of this will not be able to stop it i.e. local "rebel" commanders and govt have no control of the foot soldiers of all sides, something needs to be done.

We haven't got to that point yet.... But at that point your paper money is worthless, your lands and assets can be taken to pay for the "war". Farang/Thai it will not make a difference at that point!

remember the "kidnapping" at BKK airport in 2008....

No. Can you please remind us. Please.

[animatic]

Former PM Somchai Wongsawat presided over the ceremony.

Fugitive former MP Thaksin Shinawatra issued a statement later expressing condolences for the bloodshed but blamed Prime Minister Abhisit for causing the loss of lives.

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh also expressed his condolences and urged Abhsit to take responsibility for "mishandling" the protest.

Three more people wanting to get their hands into the pork barrel again.

Might as well have just said it in neon lights.

We want the gravy train back.

[chantorn]

Most of the country is sympathic to the reds?

Most of the country is sympathic to Mark?

It is difficult to say with any poll.

[retarius]

It was a dark day for a great country. The fact that soldiers that are supposed to protect the country and its people were ordered fire the guns at other Thais and to trample their fellow Thais ( family, friends, and neighbors) by a politician trying to hold on his power by disenfranchising a segment of the population who disagrees with the way the sitting government came to power without giving the poor, in fact all Thais and opportunity to elect the government they want to represent them and the way they are being treated and are asking for redress of the situation by holding an early independently monitored national election so their will can be voiced with their votes.

We were close to a solution before yesterday when the politicians chose to order the Thai soldiers to take down the opposition using guns.

The way out of this is to have new men of good will in the government to address the problems the the opposition by calling for an early national election with a realistic time schedule for disolving the Parliment and holding an internationally monitored national election (stop demanding a silly 9 month schedule). The opposition should also signal their willingness to agree on a schedule that based on the ability to hold the national referendum. The negotiation then should proceed the mechanics of holding the election. The time for excuses and delays is over.

KunJames...thank you for an excellent post...the problem is that there is a dearth of 'men of good will'...and men of good will who get close to the levers of power, suddenly seem to turn into self-serving men of bad will desperate to cling to power....

[golferchin76]

The soldiers who were used on this terrible day in Thailand's history are no more than poor kids who have probably been forced into the army having lost during the ballot process, most of the red shirted protesters are poor people who have been whipped into a frenzy by the so called red shirt leaders, who retire to their luxury hotels every night.

"Old men fight wars, but it is the young men who must die."

shit that's so right!

and let's do remember that reds do have firearms, legal or illegal.

It reminds me of 1992.

[selftaopath]

The government said troops fired rubber bullets and tear gas whereas demonstrators fought back with guns, grenades and petrol bombs.

That says it for me, the reds have through their leaders who have incited violence for weeks, have only themselves to blame, they wanted a fight and pushed and pushed and now they want to push the blame elsewhere.

Let the ones who incited this violence have their day in court and lets hope that Thai people realise that they were being used as cannon fodder.

Doubt the people will realize anything other than big daddy Taxic gave them money and mobile phones = he loves them. LOLOLOL Silly children.... but with little/no education/money/ encouragement to think independently what can one expect?

[eggomaniac]

The soldiers who were used on this terrible day in Thailand's history are no more than poor kids who have probably been forced into the army having lost during the ballot process, most of the red shirted protesters are poor people who have been whipped into a frenzy by the so called red shirt leaders, who retire to their luxury hotels every night.

There are no winners after these tragic events, lets just hope and pray that everyone takes a step back and reflects on their actions, and works tirelessly together to find a solution that avoids any further unnecessary bloodshed, but I assume that the perceived loss of face actually means more than the lives of their fellow countrymen.

There is a Solution. I discussed it with Thai academics when I was in Thailand, as well as Red Movement members, some Yellow shirts and many White Shirts, as well as representative of the KPI.

They all LIKED my concepts. No lie, a few even came to tears at the beauty of the Solution.

They suggested I take it to Media, but that is not allowed. Catch 33 huh?

What, briefly, is the Solution and why is it not allowed in the media? Is it not allowed on Thaivisa also?

Yes, it is not allowed here either.

[Grey11]

When I watched the attack on the opposition demonstrators by the soldiers, I recalled when the US National Guard General arrived in New Orleans with the National Guard soldiers after the hurricane disaster. The National Guard is usually is commanded in each of the states by the Govenors. By this time the Govenor had authorized the activation of the National Guard into the US Army.

The soldiers came riding in on trucks with their weapons pointed outward.

General Honore saw that immediately stopped the trucks and ordered the soldiers to point their guns at the ground and never again point them at an American. If they did they were told that they could face a courts martial (a military tiral). That was the sign of a General who knows that a national Army is to protect the country and its people, not to fight its people.

Unfortunately what we saw yesterday was politicians who chose to order Thai soldiers to fire their guns at other Thai citizens.

We also saw Thai military leaders who, unlike General Honore in New Orleans, ordered their subordinates to fire their weapons at other Thais. It was a disgraceful day for country of Thailand.

Like comparing apples to oranges. The Army & National Guard were in New Orleans because of a natural disaster - hurricane - to help rescue & transport people & to stop the looting & crime. The people of New Orleans were not thousands strong pushing the soldiers back while throwing bottles, rocks, plastic bottles filled with water, long spear like sticks, etc. In fact the Reds were intimidating the soldiers trying to start a fight. They were damaging private & government property. In N.O. the looters ran as the military moved in. The people in N.O. were not looking for a fight trying to overthrow a government. The Red Shirts have threatened the PM - no person in N.O. threatened to kill the President of the U.S. - with bodily harm and even death. People in N.O. did not gather their own blood & slaughter a pig to mix its blood and throw it on public buildings and even at the feet of the soldiers. Had any person in N.O. tried to attack a member of the police or military they would have been shot dead. For one month the Reds have blocked roads, malls, restaurants, denying those who would use the facilities & the poor who work in those places of businesses. Do you think they are being paid while not being able to work? The international reputation of Thailand is forever soiled by the antics of Thaksin's personal army. Where is Thaksin? Flying around the world in his private jet & even visiting resorts in the Carribbean. Where are the leaders of the Red Shirts - the ones Thaksin pays the most - staying? Not on the streets with their troops but in nice air conditioned hotels. No country in the world would have allowed the taking over of government property and inciting violence by a mob? Certainly the police & Thai military who ran - often leaving their weapons for the Red Shirts to use against them - should be court martialed and fired from their jobs. What a bunch of cowards. I have never seen Police or the Military run. There is no comparison between N.O. & Bangkok

[animatic]

When I watched the attack on the opposition demonstrators by the soldiers, I recalled when the US National Guard General arrived in New Orleans with the National Guard soldiers after the hurricane disaster. The National Guard is usually is commanded in each of the states by the Govenors. By this time the Govenor had authorized the activation of the National Guard into the US Army.

The soldiers came riding in on trucks with their weapons pointed outward.

General Honore saw that immediately stopped the trucks and ordered the soldiers to point their guns at the ground and never again point them at an American. If they did they were told that they could face a courts martial (a military tiral). That was the sign of a General who knows that a national Army is to protect the country and its people, not to fight its people.

Unfortunately what we saw yesterday was politicians who chose to order Thai soldiers to fire their guns at other Thai citizens.

We also saw Thai military leaders who, unlike General Honore in New Orleans, ordered their subordinates to fire their weapons at other Thais. It was a disgraceful day for country of Thailand.

Like comparing apples to oranges. The Army & National Guard were in New Orleans because of a natural disaster - hurricane - to help rescue & transport people & to stop the looting & crime. The people of New Orleans were not thousands strong pushing the soldiers back while throwing bottles, rocks, plastic bottles filled with water, long spear like sticks, etc. In fact the Reds were intimidating the soldiers trying to start a fight. They were damaging private & government property. In N.O. the looters ran as the military moved in. The people in N.O. were not looking for a fight trying to overthrow a government. The Red Shirts have threatened the PM - no person in N.O. threatened to kill the President of the U.S. - with bodily harm and even death. People in N.O. did not gather their own blood & slaughter a pig to mix its blood and throw it on public buildings and even at the feet of the soldiers. Had any person in N.O. tried to attack a member of the police or military they would have been shot dead. For one month the Reds have blocked roads, malls, restaurants, denying those who would use the facilities & the poor who work in those places of businesses. Do you think they are being paid while not being able to work? The international reputation of Thailand is forever soiled by the antics of Thaksin's personal army. Where is Thaksin? Flying around the world in his private jet & even visiting resorts in the Carribbean. Where are the leaders of the Red Shirts - the ones Thaksin pays the most - staying? Not on the streets with their troops but in nice air conditioned hotels. No country in the world would have allowed the taking over of government property and inciting violence by a mob? Certainly the police & Thai military who ran - often leaving their weapons for the Red Shirts to use against them - should be court martialed and fired from their jobs. What a bunch of cowards. I have never seen Police or the Military run. There is no comparison between N.O. & Bangkok

Spot on.

[hoilai]

"our darkest hour".....

or is it , the best is yet to be.......???????

Edited April 18, 2010 by hoilai

[seri thai]

The soldiers who were used on this terrible day in Thailand's history are no more than poor kids who have probably been forced into the army having lost during the ballot process, most of the red shirted protesters are poor people who have been whipped into a frenzy by the so called red shirt leaders, who retire to their luxury hotels every night.

There are no winners after these tragic events, lets just hope and pray that everyone takes a step back and reflects on their actions, and works tirelessly together to find a solution that avoids any further unnecessary bloodshed, but I assume that the perceived loss of face actually means more than the lives of their fellow countrymen.

"A bayonet is a weapon with a prai on either end"

....as ye olde Marxists said 100 years ago

"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"

"The poor are always with us"

"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"

"Education,Education,Education,!!