Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[moresomekl]

The video where the guy is shot in the head is NOT during 'dance and fun' time.

It is easier to hold the red propoganda line if you ignore the fact of the armed reds AND ignore the public statements of the red leaders.

Public statement are regretable but they havent killed anyone .

Live bullets do kill people !!!

Most clearly that statement is dead wrong.

The reds rabble rousing from stage has caused at least 21 dead.

You are dead wrong along with your yellow friends and dems usurpators .

Sending the army with live bullets has caused 21 deads .

Those army folks are not trained into crowds control .

Firing live rounds into the air . What is that ? Never saw such thing

in any country but Zimbabwe

[anotherpeter]

The purpose of *most* armies is for external issues, but there are plenty of examples of western nations of using the army for internal issues. But this is Thailand, and here the army always deals with issues.

[jdinasia]

This Thread should not have been opened as it is in Contradiction with the aim of what the Nation has written in "our darkest day".

Yesterday morning, before any incident, I have underlined that Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.

Young soldiers with several rounds of rubber and some (for warning) live ones, can confuse easily in the heat of a battle. Once everything begins to degenerate, everybody is warming up and the situatiion is escalading on both sides.

The decision to engage army (reluctant initially to be involved) is the key to this tragic saturday.

People engaged in a battle are loosing restraints it is well known: this kind of situation nearly always is degenerating.

The real responsability belongs to those who have created the situation, not to the fighters.

ARMY should have never been involved in this action.

I totally disagree with your opinion

The ARMY had to be engaged

wrong --- the purpose of any countries army is to defend that country against foreign invasion and to assist in disaster relief when and where needed -- the internal control of the country rests with the police forces of that country - to up hold the law of the land - seems too often that the army has been used in this country to do the bidding of the govt in power -- or to stage coups when needed - not to be killing their own countrymen - would be interested to know if u can quote what country has used the armed forces to supress local situations like this = apart from burma - but i refer to developed countries - so sad we see thai killing thai -- who was first to throw the first stone does not really matter -- the over reaction by the army was the problem -- and as quoted earlier - if action had been taken against the yellow shirts like this what would the reaction have been also - takes two to have a fight -- or two to tango -- and finally -- the army did not have to be engaged -- but if it was it should have been better controlled and not let these young men run around with weapons primed with live rounds -- the fact that they did have live rounds clearly shows the intent they were going to be used for --

How about the L.A. Riot 1992???

The National Guard and Marine were called in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCYdUItkGuY

This subject has been fully refuted. In fact, one of the most vociferous posters often talks about the US military in this regard but fails to mention that when we take the officer's oath in the US we swear to protect the country "against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and officers know that they may in fact be used inside the country to deal with anything from civil unrest to civil war.

Countries around the world have used their troops to quell civil unrest and will continue to do so.

I do agree that specially trained units of either the police or military would be better at this than troops that have not been specifically trained for the task. I would note that troops of this type in Thailand might not be as effective because of the schisms inside the military. Who do you trust to be in command of troops like that in Thailand?

[moresomekl]

In the BP yesterday they printed the running account a British reporter tweetered as he made his way across central Bangkok. He said that he had seen two Redshirts who had been shot - one in the head and one in the groin. He also said that a French reporter had told him that she had seen soldiers taking shots at medics trying to evacuate wounded. Reading that and from what I saw on TV I have the impression that those young soldiers were pretty scared, badly trained and badly led.

I just checked the nation video but of course those might be conveniently edited

Talk to animatic , anotherpeter , and jdinasia .After first a military coup then secund a biased

court , now their masters need live bullets to stay in power .

[brianb1944]

This Thread should not have been opened as it is in Contradiction with the aim of what the Nation has written in "our darkest day".

Yesterday morning, before any incident, I have underlined that Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.

Young soldiers with several rounds of rubber and some (for warning) live ones, can confuse easily in the heat of a battle. Once everything begins to degenerate, everybody is warming up and the situatiion is escalading on both sides.

The decision to engage army (reluctant initially to be involved) is the key to this tragic saturday.

People engaged in a battle are loosing restraints it is well known: this kind of situation nearly always is degenerating.

The real responsability belongs to those who have created the situation, not to the fighters.

ARMY should have never been involved in this action.

The key to this tragedy is a group of anarchists, mostly paid, holding a City to ransom, and refusing to obey all lawful demands to disperse.

[moresomekl]

he never said it was legal, he just said words don't kill anyone, but live bullets do kill people, and he is right, I am yet to meet someone killed by a witty retort

By that same reasoning (inane) then no general and no PM is guilty of anything either. They gave orders but didn't pull the trigger.

Inciting people to violence is participating directly in the violence.

Oh the one giving the order is not responsible ?

In your opinion the poor private pulling the trigger is

responsible .

I must be dreaming

Well if the red shirts leaders are inciting violence and

their "troops" respond by dancing in the street and distributing water and chocolate

to the soldiers , then am not very worried

Edited April 12, 2010 by moresomekl

[brianb1944]

The video where the guy is shot in the head is NOT during 'dance and fun' time.

It is easier to hold the red propoganda line if you ignore the fact of the armed reds AND ignore the public statements of the red leaders.

Public statement are regretable but they havent killed anyone .

Live bullets do kill people !!!

Most clearly that statement is dead wrong.

The reds rabble rousing from stage has caused at least 21 dead.

Bottom line is, after instructon to disperse was given, anyone still at the site (s) was not an innocent bystander but a participant in an action of, at least Civil Disobediance and therefore must take responsibility for anything that happens to them as a result of their concious decision to flout the law.

[moresomekl]

You are dead wrong along with your yellow friends and dems usurpators .

Sending the army with live bullets has caused 21 deads .

Those army folks are not trained into crowds control .

Firing live rounds into the air . What is that ? Never saw such thing

in any country but Zimbabwe

You could have seen it a couple of 100m from my house, after the peaceful reds tried to blow up a gas tanker right in front of a housing complex of several hundred families.

And army aparently was not using live rounds, but now seems neither did protesters but someone else got involved.

Had army had live rounds and protesters none as red leaders claim, the outcome would have been very different. More like that of 1992.

But I do agree with army not being trained for something like that. Or with fiasco of Saturday you'd wonder what the training of strategists is, if any...

I think the army had both , rubber bullet and live bullet

[jdinasia]

Moresomekl --- I was pointing out the conclusion of your argument. If, as you say, the red leaders are not guilty; then by extension nobody else is. The argument is fallacious and you are using it to build a strawman.

[animatic]

Public statement are regretable but they havent killed anyone .

Live bullets do kill people !!!

Most clearly that statement is dead wrong.

The reds rabble rousing from stage has caused at least 21 dead.

You are dead wrong along with your yellow friends and dems usurpators .

Sending the army with live bullets has caused 21 deads .

Those army folks are not trained into crowds control .

Firing live rounds into the air . What is that ? Never saw such thing

in any country but Zimbabwe

To be repetitive:

Live bullets are ALWAYS issued to all soldiers with their weapons,

even when rubber billets are to be the main armament, because NO soldier

carries a weapon not ready for use. PERIOD. It is just not done.

If the army had been shooting mostly live rounds, thousands would have been dead.

and that has not been the case. Regrettably 850 injured,

but nothing ANYWHERE has said these were all bullet wounds.

The words on the red stages fired up their crowd to fight back against a army riot control line,

those REPEATED decisions to fight back, caused the majority of injuries.

Those decisions coupled with the obvious use of military style guerrillas,

intent on causing greatest possible chaos and create terror.

Hence these so far un-identified terrorists are quite to blame.

But they couldn't have been in position to do this,

without the words that set it all in motion.

The 'thing' that touched this all off was WORDS; words kill,

even high school hazing caused a girl to hang herself in USA.

JUST WORDS you say...

words mis-used are the weapon of choice for many demagogues.

The pen is mightier than the sword, but it can also cause the sword to be raised in anger.

The words quoted from the red stages the last 3 weeks have had deadly effect.

Make no mistake without those fiery orators filled with hate and lies,

there would have been no battle at Thaicom. No post Thaicom government clearing operation.

The NEEDED their WORDS to be heard, other wise people would not come to do battle.

Words kill as easily and as surely as pride is wounded

and demagogues wind up their listeners to march for a cause.

How many Thais out for a night die for the wrong word in the wrong face?

Or die because what they said was mis-heard? Dead is dead and words can kill.

Edited April 12, 2010 by animatic

[moresomekl]

Bottom line is, after instructon to disperse was given, anyone still at the site (s) was not an innocent bystander but a participant in an action of, at least Civil Disobediance and therefore must take responsibility for anything that happens to them as a result of their concious decision to flout the law.

If you steal an apple at the supermarket they dont hang you at the nearby tree .

Do you understand the concept of measured response ? Obviously not .

Police with water canon and tear gas would have been perfectly adequate

[termad]

This Thread should not have been opened as it is in Contradiction with the aim of what the Nation has written in "our darkest day".

Yesterday morning, before any incident, I have underlined that Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.

Young soldiers with several rounds of rubber and some (for warning) live ones, can confuse easily in the heat of a battle. Once everything begins to degenerate, everybody is warming up and the situatiion is escalading on both sides.

The decision to engage army (reluctant initially to be involved) is the key to this tragic saturday.

People engaged in a battle are loosing restraints it is well known: this kind of situation nearly always is degenerating.

The real responsability belongs to those who have created the situation, not to the fighters.

ARMY should have never been involved in this action.

The key to this tragedy is a group of anarchists, mostly paid, holding a City to ransom, and refusing to obey all lawful demands to disperse.

I would like to point out that there is no informed opinion that gives Abhisit much of a chance of winning the next election and that includes the foreign press. Also many people in this country do not believe that he was democratically elected. So are you saying that the majority of the Thai electorate are just "a group of anarchists" because anarchists do not believe in any form of Government. (Check your dictionary). The Red Shirts/Rural folk have been denied their democratic rights for generations but have now siezed those rights and are passionate advocates of Democracy whilst I doubt that the present Goverment even understand the concepts of Democracy.

[moresomekl]

Public statement are regretable but they havent killed anyone .

Live bullets do kill people !!!

Most clearly that statement is dead wrong.

The reds rabble rousing from stage has caused at least 21 dead.

You are dead wrong along with your yellow friends and dems usurpators .

Sending the army with live bullets has caused 21 deads .

Those army folks are not trained into crowds control .

Firing live rounds into the air . What is that ? Never saw such thing

in any country but Zimbabwe

To be repetitive:

Live bullets are ALWAYS issued to all soldiers with their weapons,

even when rubber billets are to be the main armament, because NO soldier

carries a weapon not ready for use. PERIOD. It is just not done.

If the army had been shooting mostly live rounds, thousands would have been dead.

and that has not been the case. Regrettably 850 injured,

but nothing ANYWHERE has said these were all bullet wounds.

The words on the red stages fired up their crowd to fight back against a army riot control line,

those REPEATED decisions to fight back, caused the majority of injuries.

Those decisions coupled with the obvious use of military style guerrillas,

intent on causing greatest possible chaos and create terror.

Hence these so far un-identified terrorists are quite to blame.

But they couldn't have been in position to do this,

without the words that set it all in motion.

The 'thing' that touched this all off was WORDS; words kill,

even high school hazing caused a girl to hang herself in USA.

JUST WORDS you say...

words mis-used are the weapon of choice for many demagogues.

The pen is mightier than the sword, but it can also cause the sword to be raised in anger.

The words quoted from the red stages the last 3 weeks have had deadly effect.

Make no mistake without those fiery orators filled with hate and lies,

there would have been no battle at Thaicom. No post Thaicom government clearing operation.

The NEEDED their WORDS to be heard, other wise people would not come to do battle.

Words kill as easily and as surely as pride is wounded

and demagogues wind up their listeners to march for a cause.

How many Thais out for a night die for the wrong word in the wrong face?

Or die because what they said was mis-heard? Dead is dead and words can kill.

Your yellow friends dont use hate and lies on their station maybe ?

which has never been shut down by the Abhisit regime by the way

And violence at the airport last time by the yellows ? Many pictures of that on several

threads here

I really must be dreaming .

Overall the reds are less violent this time round then the yellows .

[Tolley]

The only way this is going to get resolved seems to be with parliament being dissolved and the army taking over yet again.

[TheOldWolf]

Your yellow friends dont use hate and lies on their station maybe ?

which has never been shut down by the Abhisit regime by the way

And violence at the airport last time by the yellows ? Many pictures of that on several

threads here

I really must be dreaming .

Overall the reds are less violent this time round then the yellows .

I think rest of the readers of this thread must be dreaming. What you say is bottom line that you will defend anything the reds do. I have tried to ignore your nonsens, but this is the bottom of the bottom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moresomekl]

I would like to point out that there is no informed opinion that gives Abhisit much of a chance of winning the next election and that includes the foreign press. Also many people in this country do not believe that he was democratically elected. So are you saying that the majority of the Thai electorate are just "a group of anarchists" because anarchists do not believe in any form of Government. (Check your dictionary). The Red Shirts/Rural folk have been denied their democratic rights for generations but have now siezed those rights and are passionate advocates of Democracy whilst I doubt that the present Goverment even understand the concepts of Democracy.

Correct . Even before the bloodshed , most analysts did not give much chance to Abhisit of beeing democraticaly elected .

Now one can only guess what his chances are .

Even some of his coalition partners want to pull out .

[LevelHead]

I have not posted for 36 hours, out of respect for the dead, as I said I would pause whilst the loss of life occurred.

There must be an immediate enquiry set up. Independent and not involving any Yellow shirts at all.

The government first said

No live ammo.

Then they changed the story to "some had live ammo but only shot in the air, none fired at protestors" (although how they know that given the darkness and lack of control is anyones guess)

Finally they said some had live ammo but only shot in the air OR used in when circumstances needed it.

The outright lie of "no live ammo" has now been buried under later denials of differing things.

It also appears the "rubber bullets" were lethal too.

An investigation must be set up t study these "local made" rubber bullets and the method in which they were fired. At what distance is a hit to the body potentially lethal. Reports are one protester with a rubber bullet that went into his lung. That is not "non lethal".

A proper study needs to be set up, and if the rubber bullets are lethal or potentially lethal in the way as used and shown in the videos, then appropriate action must be taken against those who ordered their use.

Statements made early on must be compared to later ones and if stories are changing then people need to be disciplined.

Independent study must be made of the bullets and the guns used to fire them, and work out if they can be lethal and then at what range they are lethal. It must them be worked out from video's if people were using these at lethal distances. If they were there is no difference between rubber and live, they will both kill and the effect and intent of pulling the trigger is the same.

[moresomekl]

I think rest of the readers of this thread must be dreaming. What you say is bottom line that you will defend anything the reds do. I have tried to ignore your nonsens, but this is the bottom of the bottom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is quite incorrect . I believe it to be the truth .

Last Songhan was different

The red have their reasons to be very pissed and some here

dont take the time to understand them .

If same thing happened to the yellow , i would stand for them .

[ChiangMaiThai]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

[moresomekl]

I have not posted for 36 hours, out of respect for the dead, as I said I would pause whilst the loss of life occurred.

There must be an immediate enquiry set up. Independent and not involving any Yellow shirts at all.

The government first said

No live ammo.

Then they changed the story to "some had live ammo but only shot in the air, none fired at protestors" (although how they know that given the darkness and lack of control is anyones guess)

Finally they said some had live ammo but only shot in the air OR used in when circumstances needed it.

The outright lie of "no live ammo" has now been buried under later denials of differing things.

It also appears the "rubber bullets" were lethal too.

An investigation must be set up t study these "local made" rubber bullets and the method in which they were fired. At what distance is a hit to the body potentially lethal. Reports are one protester with a rubber bullet that went into his lung. That is not "non lethal".

A proper study needs to be set up, and if the rubber bullets are lethal or potentially lethal in the way as used and shown in the videos, then appropriate action must be taken against those who ordered their use.

Statements made early on must be compared to later ones and if stories are changing then people need to be disciplined.

Independent study must be made of the bullets and the guns used to fire them, and work out if they can be lethal and then at what range they are lethal. It must them be worked out from video's if people were using these at lethal distances. If they were there is no difference between rubber and live, they will both kill and the effect and intent of pulling the trigger is the same.

Well i just prey that next time the army dont fire mortar rounds .... in the air

[jdinasia]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

The red leader Sae Daeng has already admitted they were his. Thaksin needs the violence to overthrow this government. Martyrs do most of the work for Thaksin as no government in Thailand seems to last long after violence on the streets.

Arisman, Sae daeng, Nattawutt, Jatuporn, Veera, Dr Weng, etc have all called for violence for quite awhile now ... why? Thaksin needs it.

Reds on the board here have stated that the Reds won when they got Abhisit to agree to talk and then agree to dissolve parliament early. Why didn't the reds take that "win"? Simply because Thaksin cannot have an organized government in place that stands for the rule of law for that long. Thaksin MUST get the government replaced before the charter is ammended (via referendum) and before next year's budget is set, and before the military reshuffle.

[moresomekl]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

I think there is a link in his thread to what you say

[dhrobertson]

Does anybody know what the reds actually want?

They get exactly the same voting rights as everyone else. Sadly they generally choose to sell their votes.

What is the point of changing government if nobody knows what the issues actually are.

Education is supposed to be free now?

So, what's the issue?

The village fund scheme was badly abused. the 30TBT health scheme didn't work because it wasn't properly funded.

Loads of money going into road infrastructure schemes in the NE....

So AGAIN what are the issues here. What do the reds want to die for. EXACTLY?

What we need is a proper negotiation. What is the wish list?

What would getting rid of Abhisit achieve? Does anyone seriously not believe that he is an honest honerable man?

The powers at be had every right to break up demonstrations which were disrupting other peoples lives. Sadly not one of the huge number of generals had the necessary skills. Overwelming force should have been used with three times the number of troops as demonstrators.

I suspect that the bovine masses will achieve nothing. They do not know what they want.........

Edited April 12, 2010 by dhrobertson

[animatic]

You are dead wrong along with your yellow friends and dems usurpators .

Sending the army with live bullets has caused 21 deads .

Those army folks are not trained into crowds control .

Firing live rounds into the air . What is that ? Never saw such thing

in any country but Zimbabwe

To be repetitive:

Live bullets are ALWAYS issued to all soldiers with their weapons,

even when rubber billets are to be the main armament, because NO soldier

carries a weapon not ready for use. PERIOD. It is just not done.

If the army had been shooting mostly live rounds, thousands would have been dead.

and that has not been the case. Regrettably 850 injured,

but nothing ANYWHERE has said these were all bullet wounds.

The words on the red stages fired up their crowd to fight back against a army riot control line,

those REPEATED decisions to fight back, caused the majority of injuries.

Those decisions coupled with the obvious use of military style guerrillas,

intent on causing greatest possible chaos and create terror.

Hence these so far un-identified terrorists are quite to blame.

But they couldn't have been in position to do this,

without the words that set it all in motion.

The 'thing' that touched this all off was WORDS; words kill,

even high school hazing caused a girl to hang herself in USA.

JUST WORDS you say...

words mis-used are the weapon of choice for many demagogues.

The pen is mightier than the sword, but it can also cause the sword to be raised in anger.

The words quoted from the red stages the last 3 weeks have had deadly effect.

Make no mistake without those fiery orators filled with hate and lies,

there would have been no battle at Thaicom. No post Thaicom government clearing operation.

The NEEDED their WORDS to be heard, other wise people would not come to do battle.

Words kill as easily and as surely as pride is wounded

and demagogues wind up their listeners to march for a cause.

How many Thais out for a night die for the wrong word in the wrong face?

Or die because what they said was mis-heard? Dead is dead and words can kill.

Your yellow friends dont use hate and lies on their station maybe ?

which has never been shut down by the Abhisit regime by the way

And violence at the airport last time by the yellows ? Many pictures of that on several

threads here

I really must be dreaming .

Overall the reds are less violent this time round then the yellows .

But it WAS shut down by the Thaksin regime... touché

PS, I am not yellow nor have met one that I know of.

You keep saying yellow friends, like this means something to me.

Don't be foolish.

Sharing SOME of the parallel aims if ridding Thailand of Thaksin and his corrupt crew,

is not the same as joining a protest an actual group.

Parallel aims is not parallel methods or membership in a group.

Just like saying the poor grandmother wanting stronger democracy

is the same as the terrorist shooter inciting mayhem, so that his side takes power calling it democratic.

Yes they both share a similar end... up to a point, but they are not the same.

It's the MEANS to an END that matter as much as the final arrival.

I can agree with the grandmother, but not the terrorist.

I agree with you on several points,

but disagree with you totally about your way to get there.

[LevelHead]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

People dressed in black means nothing. Photo's can be "photoshopped".

Given how the media spin and propaganda works did you not expect some "plants" to be walking around with guns ready to photo'd so they can put the photo's into the media if things went wrong ?

Prior to the evenings deaths I was watching www.uddthailand.com and the Red Guards arrested a few men who were not red shirts, who were mingling with the crowds and who were said to be "government plants" to cause trouble.

Perhaps if the government had not blocked the signal more people could have seen the arrests of the "plants" in the crowds, but hey, why have free and fair media when you can abuse state controlled media to say whatever you want them to ?

[moresomekl]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

The red leader Sae Daeng has already admitted they were his. Thaksin needs the violence to overthrow this government. Martyrs do most of the work for Thaksin as no government in Thailand seems to last long after violence on the streets.

Arisman, Sae daeng, Nattawutt, Jatuporn, Veera, Dr Weng, etc have all called for violence for quite awhile now ... why? Thaksin needs it.

Reds on the board here have stated that the Reds won when they got Abhisit to agree to talk and then agree to dissolve parliament early. Why didn't the reds take that "win"? Simply because Thaksin cannot have an organized government in place that stands for the rule of law for that long. Thaksin MUST get the government replaced before the charter is ammended (via referendum) and before next year's budget is set, and before the military reshuffle.

My car left tyre is punctured . Must be Thaksin fault

Dont worry , Abhisit is in control on account of his

last handling of the situation

Now even his coalition partners are asking for earlier elections

then 9 months .

But then they are probably paid by Thaksin right ?

[LevelHead]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

The red leader Sae Daeng has already admitted they were his. Thaksin needs the violence to overthrow this government. Martyrs do most of the work for Thaksin as no government in Thailand seems to last long after violence on the streets.

Arisman, Sae daeng, Nattawutt, Jatuporn, Veera, Dr Weng, etc have all called for violence for quite awhile now ... why? Thaksin needs it.

Reds on the board here have stated that the Reds won when they got Abhisit to agree to talk and then agree to dissolve parliament early. Why didn't the reds take that "win"? Simply because Thaksin cannot have an organized government in place that stands for the rule of law for that long. Thaksin MUST get the government replaced before the charter is ammended (via referendum) and before next year's budget is set, and before the military reshuffle.

Lies Lies Lies.

Nobody has "admitted" to this. If they did they would be in prison.

Sae Daeng merely commented that there might have been some but he does not know who they are.

So please, do not lie.

He is also not a core "red leader".

[animatic]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

Edited April 12, 2010 by animatic

[saintofsilence]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

People dressed in black means nothing. Photo's can be "photoshopped".

Given how the media spin and propaganda works did you not expect some "plants" to be walking around with guns ready to photo'd so they can put the photo's into the media if things went wrong ?

Prior to the evenings deaths I was watching www.uddthailand.com and the Red Guards arrested a few men who were not red shirts, who were mingling with the crowds and who were said to be "government plants" to cause trouble.

Perhaps if the government had not blocked the signal more people could have seen the arrests of the "plants" in the crowds, but hey, why have free and fair media when you can abuse state controlled media to say whatever you want them to ?

Photos's can be photoshopped but it was video showing the men in black '

[jdinasia]

And yet again LevelHead suggests that only the Reds tell the truth when we know that People TV was showing doctored tapes repeatedly.

That the foreign press took pictures and presented facts (that are subject to discussion) showing the ones with the guns comingling with the reds doesn't seem to enter the red mindset that levelhead shows