Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[jdinasia]

...

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

...

You appear to have missed Sae Daeng's claim, to be leading a group of gunmen, whom he called "Ronin' ? We have also all seen (except perhaps yourself) the Youtube-clips, showing gunmen dressed in black & wearing balaclava-helmets, roaming freely amongst the Red-Shirt crowds, and firing in a forwards-direction or at buildings ?

It seems highly-unlikely that these were soldiers, given their freedom-to-move, amongst the 'peaceful' protesters.

Do you think these might possibly be the men, whom PM-Abhisit clearly distinguishes from ordinary Red-Shirt supporters, and whom he now calls terrorists?

I doubt at this point anyone has really missed the Red leader Sae Daeng's taking responsibility for the grenading of the army and that his "ronin" are in the mix. I doubt that anyone has missed the weapons wandering around in the red controlled areas. I doubt anyone has missed the violent speeches of the other red leaders.

[TheOldWolf]

I am qoiut aware of that Anapoung will not resign and he is playing a politcal game. But as head of forces he is responsible for the failure. He and all other 100 generals ave not done their job. Same I like to say ablut the police.

What do you want him to do ?

He got order from the governement to intervene , he make clear

he is reluctant and in fact the army dont move at first , then Abhisit give

him the riot act

Then he put another general in charge , his next replacement .

Has he many options ? What do you think ?

If I got order from my boss and refuse to carry it out and hand over responsiblitiy to my next man, I would only have two options, resign or get fired. But I know this will not happen, because he is to powerful.

[jdinasia]

Lies Lies Lies.

Nobody has "admitted" to this. If they did they would be in prison.

Sae Daeng merely commented that there might have been some but he does not know who they are.

So please, do not lie.

He is also not a core "red leader".

Funny, I clearly remember him declaring himself a red leader, about a month ago ? Perhaps you can refer me to where Thaksin, his close friend, denies that Sae Daeng is one of his lieutenants ?

lol .. or the recent pics of him with Thaksin and K. Thong etc .... The red leaders DID try and distance the red movement from Sae Daeng, then Sae Daeng shows up at red stages and signs autographs for the adoring red crowds .... (kinda kills the whole "he is not a red leader" posture now doesn't it?)

[termad]

...

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

...

You appear to have missed Sae Daeng's claim, to be leading a group of gunmen, whom he called "Ronin' ? We have also all seen (except perhaps yourself) the Youtube-clips, showing gunmen dressed in black & wearing balaclava-helmets, roaming freely amongst the Red-Shirt crowds, and firing in a forwards-direction or at buildings ?

It seems highly-unlikely that these were soldiers, given their freedom-to-move, amongst the 'peaceful' protesters.

Do you think these might possibly be the men, whom PM-Abhisit clearly distinguishes from ordinary Red-Shirt supporters, and whom he now calls terrorists?

All Red Shirt security personnel wear black and you must be one of the few who actually listen to Seh Daeng. As far as I know the Red Shirt leadership pay no attention to him. I haven't seen the clips showing gunmen dressed in black roaming through the crowds and firing in a forwards direction or at buildings. I have seen the clip showing soldiers firing in a forwards direction at Red Shirts. Were these soldiers in fact terrorists dressed as soldiers?

[TheOldWolf]

They've been planning this riot for a while, as shown in Voice of Thaksin. They know that violence is the only way to bring back Dear Leader.

Do you remember this article?

"Voice of Thaksin" ?? What? .. where?

This one is very interesting in the light of what has happend

[moresomekl]

I am qoiut aware of that Anapoung will not resign and he is playing a politcal game. But as head of forces he is responsible for the failure. He and all other 100 generals ave not done their job. Same I like to say ablut the police.

What do you want him to do ?

He got order from the governement to intervene , he make clear

he is reluctant and in fact the army dont move at first , then Abhisit give

him the riot act

Then he put another general in charge , his next replacement .

Has he many options ? What do you think ?

If I got order from my boss and refuse to carry it out and hand over responsiblitiy to my next man, I would only have two options, resign or get fired. But I know this will not happen, because he is to powerful.

Of course he cant do that , he is few months away from retirement . He dont want to mutiny , he dont want to be the butcher of Bangkok. and he cant resign . Hard choice . Honestly had the governement done its job they would have a trained police force for crowd control and the army would never need to be involved . Its their fault

Edited April 12, 2010 by moresomekl

[animatic]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

I dont defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But the red want their TV station back on air

and i think they are right .

If they go to THai Com they will be shot at .

So now what should they do ?

I don't defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But....

There goes that last shred of credibility.

So next time I don't like a TV channel on Truevision,

I'll go an kidnap the headman.

[AGareth2]

^an idea

Edited April 12, 2010 by AGareth2

[retarius]

I guess we can take anything the CRES says as the gospel truth?

Nice fair and balanced article, worthy of Fox Nudes

[moresomekl]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

I dont defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But the red want their TV station back on air

and i think they are right .

If they go to THai Com they will be shot at .

So now what should they do ?

I don't defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But....

There goes that last shred of credibility.

So next time I don't like a TV channel on Truevision,

I'll go an kidnap the headman.

Kidnapping? He's gone off as a pillion passenger with Arisaman driving for God's sake. He also was totally against the shutting down of the signal. You seem a little to eager in your posts to make/score points without checking the facts just like jdinasia.

A potent remark by someone disseminating false information !!!

[TITI1971]

Where can we see pictures of the terrorists as the govt. described them who shot the red shirts? My staff said she saw in a Thai newspaper. Dressed in all black with black masks. This is some sick stuff here. I wonder who hired them. Their is motive everywhere you look.

The red leader Sae Daeng has already admitted they were his. Thaksin needs the violence to overthrow this government. Martyrs do most of the work for Thaksin as no government in Thailand seems to last long after violence on the streets.

Arisman, Sae daeng, Nattawutt, Jatuporn, Veera, Dr Weng, etc have all called for violence for quite awhile now ... why? Thaksin needs it.

Reds on the board here have stated that the Reds won when they got Abhisit to agree to talk and then agree to dissolve parliament early. Why didn't the reds take that "win"? Simply because Thaksin cannot have an organized government in place that stands for the rule of law for that long. Thaksin MUST get the government replaced before the charter is ammended (via referendum) and before next year's budget is set, and before the military reshuffle.

I wondered about that myself. Govt said okay, they will dissolve at end of year. Reds said no. Must be now. Seemed a bit odd. What happens after the charter is amended that would spell the end to Thaksin's hope of a comeback?

What "win" ?

The Reds want Democracy now, and and end to the elites corrupt hold on power since the coup. They want an end to what is now a very basic lack of any "checks and balance".

If someone beats you up, takes your children and your money and leaves you with nothing how do you feel ?

If they give you back one child but keep the others and your money, do you accept that "win" ?

Given the lies being pumped out now, and the media propaganda, can you be sure that if they agree to elections now they will not change their mind later ?

They said "9 months is the earliest". Impossible quicker.

Now they say "well it can be quicker".

So they lied about 9 months !

Whoever said 9 months and lied, obviously now has blood on their hands for causing the events that followed.

They lied many times last week....

- Abhisit said he will take full responsability of giving full power to Army and Police under the martial law... now we count the peoples dead... Abhisit still alive in power...Army and Police chief also...

2nd lie

- all saturday army and police said they didn't use real live bullets.... except in evening when we count the peoples dead and they said yes we use live bullet...but only in the sky... wherever you shot, they lied about bullets....

The only other lie whe cannot hear are on PTV... we cannot hear or watch it because governmnet cut the signal...

[anotherpeter]

I am qoiut aware of that Anapoung will not resign and he is playing a politcal game. But as head of forces he is responsible for the failure. He and all other 100 generals ave not done their job. Same I like to say ablut the police.

What do you want him to do ?

He got order from the governement to intervene , he make clear

he is reluctant and in fact the army dont move at first , then Abhisit give

him the riot act

Then he put another general in charge , his next replacement .

Has he many options ? What do you think ?

If I got order from my boss and refuse to carry it out and hand over responsiblitiy to my next man, I would only have two options, resign or get fired. But I know this will not happen, because he is to powerful.

Of course he cant do that , he is few months away from retirement . He dont want to mutiny , he dont want to be the butcher of Bangkok. and he cant resign . Hard choice . Honestly had the governement done its job they would have a trained police force for crowd control and the army never would never need to be involved . Its their fault

Yes.

The first thing Abhisit should have done when he became PM was to train an elite anti-riot squad, the same as France has got.

Then he should have changed the constitution so that the PM was directly elected by the people, the same as France has got.

He should have also stopped the army buying the GT200's. He should have fixed the problems in the south. He should have fixed the traffic problems in Bangkok.

It's all Abhisit's fault that he didn't fix EVERYTHING in Thailand in the 16 months he's been PM. It's all his fault.

[kraxlhuber]

This Thread should not have been opened as it is in Contradiction with the aim of what the Nation has written in "our darkest day".

Yesterday morning, before any incident, I have underlined that Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.

Young soldiers with several rounds of rubber and some (for warning) live ones, can confuse easily in the heat of a battle. Once everything begins to degenerate, everybody is warming up and the situatiion is escalading on both sides.

The decision to engage army (reluctant initially to be involved) is the key to this tragic saturday.

People engaged in a battle are loosing restraints it is well known: this kind of situation nearly always is degenerating.

The real responsability belongs to those who have created the situation, not to the fighters.

ARMY should have never been involved in this action.

I totally disagree with your opinion

The ARMY had to be engaged

I follow with the disagreement.If this country would have a police force NOT only preoccupied with lining their pockets all the time, and do the job they are hired for,THEN,nothing of that sort of mayhem would ever happened.

The spark in the haystack should have been extinguished from day one on,screw the international opinion,tell the so-called investors who are Punters in the worst form,to take their money and ill-intend some-where else.

"Welcome to the Casino Thailand"

to the call Not to employ the Army now,should we also use the Monks,cripples,children , old man and woman as human shields?

[anotherpeter]

They lied many times last week....

- Abhisit said he will take full responsability of giving full power to Army and Police under the martial law... now we count the peoples dead... Abhisit still alive in power...Army and Police chief also...

2nd lie

- all saturday army and police said they didn't use real live bullets.... except in evening when we count the peoples dead and they said yes we use live bullet...but only in the sky... wherever you shot, they lied about bullets....

The only other lie whe cannot hear are on PTV... we cannot hear or watch it because governmnet cut the signal...

Once PTV gets reconnected you can hear the red lies all day.

[anotherpeter]

I dont defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But the red want their TV station back on air

and i think they are right .

If they go to THai Com they will be shot at .

So now what should they do ?

What you're trying to say is:

"I don't defend kidnapping ... but ... I will now defend kidnapping."

[termad]

The first thing Abhisit should have done when he became PM was to train an elite anti-riot squad, the same as France has got.Then he should have changed the constitution so that the PM was directly elected by the people, the same as France has got. He should have also stopped the army buying the GT200's. He should have fixed the problems in the south. He should have fixed the traffic problems in Bangkok.It's all Abhisit's fault that he didn't fix EVERYTHING in Thailand in the 16 months he's been PM. It's all his fault.

Sorry to point it out but Abhisit's chances of ever being elected PM directly by the people would still be less that a snowflake's in hel_l.

Edited April 12, 2010 by termad

[TITI1971]

They lied many times last week....

- Abhisit said he will take full responsability of giving full power to Army and Police under the martial law... now we count the peoples dead... Abhisit still alive in power...Army and Police chief also...

2nd lie

- all saturday army and police said they didn't use real live bullets.... except in evening when we count the peoples dead and they said yes we use live bullet...but only in the sky... wherever you shot, they lied about bullets....

The only other lie whe cannot hear are on PTV... we cannot hear or watch it because governmnet cut the signal...

Once PTV gets reconnected you can hear the red lies all day.

so let them reconnect and you are free to watch it or not... have to watch only Thai TV now is like lobotomy... to see all this disinformation on every channel... freedom of media, where are you ?

[lannarebirth]

I dont defend kidnaping of course its wrong .

But the red want their TV station back on air

and i think they are right .

If they go to THai Com they will be shot at .

So now what should they do ?

What you're trying to say is:

"I don't defend kidnapping ... but ... I will now defend kidnapping."

If ThaVisa doesn't see fit to ban this guy for being here for no other reason than to inflame and provoke, then I beg you, please place him on ignore. Your replies to him renders my ignore function usesless. Thanks for listening.

[moresomekl]

This Thread should not have been opened as it is in Contradiction with the aim of what the Nation has written in "our darkest day".

Yesterday morning, before any incident, I have underlined that Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.

Young soldiers with several rounds of rubber and some (for warning) live ones, can confuse easily in the heat of a battle. Once everything begins to degenerate, everybody is warming up and the situatiion is escalading on both sides.

The decision to engage army (reluctant initially to be involved) is the key to this tragic saturday.

People engaged in a battle are loosing restraints it is well known: this kind of situation nearly always is degenerating.

The real responsability belongs to those who have created the situation, not to the fighters.

ARMY should have never been involved in this action.

I totally disagree with your opinion

The ARMY had to be engaged

I follow with the disagreement.If this country would have a police force NOT only preoccupied with lining their pockets all the time, and do the job they are hired for,THEN,nothing of that sort of mayhem would ever happened.

The spark in the haystack should have been extinguished from day one on,screw the international opinion,tell the so-called investors who are Punters in the worst form,to take their money and ill-intend some-where else.

"Welcome to the Casino Thailand"

to the call Not to employ the Army now,should we also use the Monks,cripples,children , old man and woman as human shields?

This is a popular movement my friend . The people dont include only males aged 18-25 .

As for the police lining their pocket , maybe , just maybe , the Governement in general should pay them better , train them better , feed them better and give them a real carrier path . I know what you say

But there is no inevibility in that situation . The world is not moving ahead thanks to ppl that say , that is the way it is , but by those who change it

[moresomekl]

They lied many times last week....

- Abhisit said he will take full responsability of giving full power to Army and Police under the martial law... now we count the peoples dead... Abhisit still alive in power...Army and Police chief also...

2nd lie

- all saturday army and police said they didn't use real live bullets.... except in evening when we count the peoples dead and they said yes we use live bullet...but only in the sky... wherever you shot, they lied about bullets....

The only other lie whe cannot hear are on PTV... we cannot hear or watch it because governmnet cut the signal...

Once PTV gets reconnected you can hear the red lies all day.

Those lies yes and other lies from other stations as well .

But that is democracy ... what to do .

Yu are free not to listen to them

[anotherpeter]

The first thing Abhisit should have done when he became PM was to train an elite anti-riot squad, the same as France has got.Then he should have changed the constitution so that the PM was directly elected by the people, the same as France has got. He should have also stopped the army buying the GT200's. He should have fixed the problems in the south. He should have fixed the traffic problems in Bangkok.It's all Abhisit's fault that he didn't fix EVERYTHING in Thailand in the 16 months he's been PM. It's all his fault.

Sorry to point it out but Abhisit's chances of ever being elected PM directly by the people would still be less that a snowflake's in hel_l.

Possibly, but that wasn't the point actually.

The comment was aimed at moresomekl's constant harping that all of this would never have happened if Thailand directly elected their PMs (although he hasn't be using that for a couple of days).

And other peoples comments that it's Abhisit's fault that Thailand doesn't have an elite anti-riot squad.

[britmaveric]

^ahhh buy the govt spin do you?

[moresomekl]

Yes.

The first thing Abhisit should have done when he became PM was to train an elite anti-riot squad, the same as France has got.

Then he should have changed the constitution so that the PM was directly elected by the people, the same as France has got.

He should have also stopped the army buying the GT200's. He should have fixed the problems in the south. He should have fixed the traffic problems in Bangkok.

It's all Abhisit's fault that he didn't fix EVERYTHING in Thailand in the 16 months he's been PM. It's all his fault.

I could say that given the manner in which Abhisit came to power , through a coup then a less then impartial court that banned the TRT while left the dems of the hook , it would have been a good move for him to train a proper riot police .

But anyway when i said governement i did not mean this governement . Thai governement in general

Edit : Typo

Edited April 12, 2010 by moresomekl

[anotherpeter]

Once PTV gets reconnected you can hear the red lies all day.

Those lies yes and other lies from other stations as well .

But that is democracy ... what to do .

Yu are free not to listen to them

You haven't answered some earlier questions about "What lies on the other stations?"

Certainly some other channels may be biased, but I haven't seen doctored videos and their leaders inciting violence.

[animatic]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

Kidnapping? He's gone off as a pillion passenger with Arisaman driving for God's sake. He also was totally against the shutting down of the signal. You seem a little to eager in your posts to make/score points without checking the facts just like jdinasia.

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

The man's becoming a joke! Why is he hanging on to a position that he was never entitled to in the first place? Why does he not resign and call a general election with many International Observers?

Do you have an answer?

Seems you can try to defend this kidnapping...

You didn't succeed. Credibilty ZERO.

[onthewire]

Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

[moresomekl]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

Kidnapping? He's gone off as a pillion passenger with Arisaman driving for God's sake. He also was totally against the shutting down of the signal. You seem a little to eager in your posts to make/score points without checking the facts just like jdinasia.

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

The man's becoming a joke! Why is he hanging on to a position that he was never entitled to in the first place? Why does he not resign and call a general election with many International Observers?

Do you have an answer?

Seems you can try to defend this kidnapping...

You didn't succeed. Credibilty ZERO.

I dont disseminate false information . That makes us different .

Who of the 2 is more credible ?

[anotherpeter]

An interesting quote from one of the news articles"

The UDD leader [Jatuporn] accused the government of distorting information and insisted that no third party intervened to cause unrest.

So the people carrying M-16's around, firing weapons at the army and throwing hand grenades were definitely the reds.

[moresomekl]

The first thing Abhisit should have done when he became PM was to train an elite anti-riot squad, the same as France has got.Then he should have changed the constitution so that the PM was directly elected by the people, the same as France has got. He should have also stopped the army buying the GT200's. He should have fixed the problems in the south. He should have fixed the traffic problems in Bangkok.It's all Abhisit's fault that he didn't fix EVERYTHING in Thailand in the 16 months he's been PM. It's all his fault.

Sorry to point it out but Abhisit's chances of ever being elected PM directly by the people would still be less that a snowflake's in hel_l.

Possibly, but that wasn't the point actually.

The comment was aimed at moresomekl's constant harping that all of this would never have happened if Thailand directly elected their PMs (although he hasn't be using that for a couple of days).

And other peoples comments that it's Abhisit's fault that Thailand doesn't have an elite anti-riot squad.

I fielded some ideas which i found more constructive then constantly shouting at the reds , the yellow and Thaksin .

Anyway i did not speak about that for long time .

I know you are opposed to election by the ppl , where your hero would get half a percent

[tgw]

Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Is it really so difficult to guess?

The red mass believes they are fighting for democracy and justice, but look at the red leaders' personalities and ties with Thaksin.

And where does the money come from? The reds cost a minimum of 4 to 5 million USD per day.

The mob is misused by their criminal leaders.

Their goal is to take over Thailand. Luang Ta Maha Bua was right about Thaksin and his cronies. You see the result now.

The people who fuel the reds and who organize the violence have no interest in helping the poor to obtain more money or democracy.

Unfortunately, it seems like the red leadership has proven itself to be more shrewd than their government counterplayers and brought the country into a situation which cannot be solved at the current level.

They should have done away with Thaksin one year ago.

A CIA-style kidnapping to bring him to justice in Thailand would have been the best thing. Too late now.

The incidents with the army were a setup.

The reds did everything they could to provoke the government to bring the army in.

In fact, they forced the government to show that it had control of the army.

The army weren't numerous enough and was under strict orders not to fire live rounds at protesters, except to protect their lives.

It seems to me the criminal elements within the reds, which are controlled by the masterminds behind all this, had just been waiting for this moment to come.

Once the army was near the protesters, they attacked the army, firing assault rifles and grenades at the commanding army officers, as the murderer Sae Daeng boasted.

The reds had the dubious "help" of his "ronins" (criminals, really), who wore masks and carried AK47-like weapons.

It all benefits Thaksin and his friends.

Bringing the Army near the protesters was a strategic mistake, since the only possible outcome was bloodshed, regardless whether caused by the army or not.

But the government didn't have much of a choice - it was either being seen as powerless, unable to control the situation or run the risk of bringing the army in.

When the army units came within firing range of the protesters, the government had already lost.

I am very sad for Thailand, I hope a higher power steps in.

Edited April 12, 2010 by tgw