Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[whatsupdoc]

Oh yes on means to an end and apportioning blame...

The Reds have kidnapped CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong and taken him away.

Acceptable means to an end?

Can you defend this?

Kidnapping? He's gone off as a pillion passenger with Arisaman driving for God's sake. He also was totally against the shutting down of the signal. You seem a little to eager in your posts to make/score points without checking the facts just like jdinasia.

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

The man's becoming a joke! Why is he hanging on to a position that he was never entitled to in the first place? Why does he not resign and call a general election with many International Observers?

Do you have an answer?

Seems you can try to defend this kidnapping...

You didn't succeed. Credibilty ZERO.

I dont disseminate false information . That makes us different .

Who of the 2 is more credible ?

animatic

[moresomekl]

Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

I suppose the PAD ????

[moresomekl]

Seems you can try to defend this kidnapping...

You didn't succeed. Credibilty ZERO.

I dont disseminate false information . That makes us different .

Who of the 2 is more credible ?

animatic

[Xangsamhua]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

[TheOldWolf]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

[Xangsamhua]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

How do we know he means the PAD?

[moresomekl]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

Then i really dont know what he meant .

[TheOldWolf]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

How do we know he means the PAD?

We don´t know, but he is MP from PTP. But i think it is good he says that there was i third party invold. I think I read somewhere that some reds leaders diened it.

[tgw]

Who said Abhisit had no choice ?

He had a choice

RESIGN

No, he had no choice. Not as a responsible person. Oh sure, he could have resigned and let someone else clean up the mess, but his resignation would not have solved anything.

It is simply impossible to give the reins of the country to such criminals like the red leaders.

While I understand, have compassion and even support the red masses, their leaders are murderers and criminals.

Those criminals could not be removed before an election is called, and would effectively take office!

Thailand must not be given in their hands.

Unfortunately, the situation is totally uncontrollable for the government, but they have no other solution now than to ask the army to protect them in defensive position and wait.

The alternative to that is the army masses 100.000 soldiers in Bangkok and pushes the reds away using bare hands, batons and shields. The problem is that I doubt the army is able to get so much soldiers motivated.

[tgw]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

How do we know he means the PAD?

He meant a third hand in the clashes.

A third hand, black-clad, armed with AK47 and grenades, paid from abroad... Dubai...

not the PAD.

[Xangsamhua]

The footage France 24 shows appears to be the same as that screened on Thai TV this afternoon showing soldiers returning fire from people hitting them with grenades and gunfire. The troops yell out to the opposition to stop while they retrieve their wounded but the firing recommences as soon as they go out to do that. The incoming fire is certainly not coming from your peaceful mum and dad redshirts or even guards acting in defence, but from people who have experience with military weapons. It certainly points to Seh Daeng's boys and they did promise late last year to do this kind of thing when given the opportunity, even naming April as the date.

[kissdani]

Once PTV gets reconnected you can hear the red lies all day.

Those lies yes and other lies from other stations as well .

But that is democracy ... what to do .

Yu are free not to listen to them

You haven't answered some earlier questions about "What lies on the other stations?"

Certainly some other channels may be biased, but I haven't seen doctored videos and their leaders inciting violence.

That is hardcore partisan opinion from the people who put the PM under pressure.

Some don't realize when they leave the field of the democracy they talk all day about.

ASTV-Manager quits board of Thai Journalist Association in protest

Sat, 10/04/2010 - 20:20

ASTV-Manager has resigned from the board of the Thai Journalist Association in protest after the media body released a statement opposing the government’s closure of the red shirt People Channel or PTV. Its representative said the red-shirt TV should be closed because it is not loyal to the monarchy, unlike ASTV which adheres to what is right and just.

On 9 April, Kiatkong Thongruang, representative of ASTV-Manager, said that he had resigned from the TJA board. After discussing the TJA statement and consulting with other senior figures in the media, ASTV-Manager decided to quit the board in protest.

The TJA and the Thailand Cable TV Association released a joint statement on 8 April condemning the government’s closure of the red shirt TV and Prachatai as a violation of the constitution and the people’s right to information, and an example of double standards, because the government did not close another satellite TV station, ASTV.

...

read more here: http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/1722

[jdinasia]

The footage France 24 shows appears to be the same as that screened on Thai TV this afternoon showing soldiers returning fire from people hitting them with grenades and gunfire. The troops yell out to the opposition to stop while they retrieve their wounded but the firing recommences as soon as they go out to do that. The incoming fire is certainly not coming from your peaceful mum and dad redshirts or even guards acting in defence, but from people who have experience with military weapons. It certainly points to Seh Daeng's boys and they did promise late last year to do this kind of thing when given the opportunity, even naming April as the date.

Sae Daeng directly claimed responsibility for this attack by his "Ronin"

[britmaveric]

unlike ASTV which adheres to what is right and just.

:D

[RussellHantz]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

Edited April 12, 2010 by RussellHantz

[Xangsamhua]

The footage France 24 shows appears to be the same as that screened on Thai TV this afternoon showing soldiers returning fire from people hitting them with grenades and gunfire. The troops yell out to the opposition to stop while they retrieve their wounded but the firing recommences as soon as they go out to do that. The incoming fire is certainly not coming from your peaceful mum and dad redshirts or even guards acting in defence, but from people who have experience with military weapons. It certainly points to Seh Daeng's boys and they did promise late last year to do this kind of thing when given the opportunity, even naming April as the date.

Sae Daeng directly claimed responsibility for this attack by his "Ronin"

Really? He must think he's untouchable now. Source? The Reds disowned him a few weeks ago, but they seem quite grateful for him now.

[kissdani]

An interesting quote from one of the news articles"

The UDD leader [Jatuporn] accused the government of distorting information and insisted that no third party intervened to cause unrest.

So the people carrying M-16's around, firing weapons at the army and throwing hand grenades were definitely the reds.

You know what, it are actually your post that contain distorted information, an endless stream of it.

What you say definitely can't be true.

Not according to the PM, after the latest findings, he blames 'The Terrorists' and differentiate between them, the army and the the innocent people demanding democracy.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...n-30127076.html

The Nation don't have the 'demanding democracy' part., but you can read it in the other english newspaper. Maybe you should recommend them for a ban because they distort the ASTV take on this.

[tgw]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

I hope this is your first and last inane post.

ALL assault rifles are "high powered".

The reds were "supported" (stirred up?) by Sae Daeng's "ronins" carrying AK47 and grenades, with which they attacked the army.

I wonder how much of the dead reds had their weapons removed before being picked up by ambulances.

Look at the age of dead protesters.

Edited April 12, 2010 by tgw

[TheOldWolf]

They've been planning this riot for a while, as shown in Voice of Thaksin. They know that violence is the only way to bring back Dear Leader.

Do you remember this article?

"Voice of Thaksin" ?? What? .. where?

This one is very interesting in the light of what has happend

I reply to my own reply. In the article you can find lot of stuff, including "April"

[kissdani]

The footage France 24 shows appears to be the same as that screened on Thai TV this afternoon showing soldiers returning fire from people hitting them with grenades and gunfire. The troops yell out to the opposition to stop while they retrieve their wounded but the firing recommences as soon as they go out to do that. The incoming fire is certainly not coming from your peaceful mum and dad redshirts or even guards acting in defence, but from people who have experience with military weapons. It certainly points to Seh Daeng's boys and they did promise late last year to do this kind of thing when given the opportunity, even naming April as the date.

Sae Daeng directly claimed responsibility for this attack by his "Ronin"

Where?

According to the links to information you have given in an other thread, Sea Deang just claims to have knowledge about the activity of a third group, but didn't say that he take the responsibility for it.

Actually not much different from Abhisit statement, he to has knowledge about a third group. The PM calls them 'The Terrorists'.

Not one for quoting Seh Daeng, but he referred to the military being leaderless at a point - will include the full quote of what he said given the controversy. Matichon reports him as saying the mistake of the Army C-in-C was to use snipers on the building at Satri Wittaya school and this caused many people to die (¤ÇÒÁ¼Ô´¢Í§ ¼º.·º. ¤×Íãªé¤¹«ØèÁÂÔ§·Õ躹ËÅѧ¤ÒµÖ¡âçàÃÕ¹ʵÃÕÇÔ·ÂÒ «Öè§ÊÒà˵طÕ褹µÒ¨ӹǹÁÒ¡) because the result of using snipers to kill the people first (à¾ÃÒоūØèÁÂÔ§¢Í§·ËÒÃä´éÂԧŧÁÒãÊè»ÃЪҪ¹¡è͹) caused one group of persons whose identity is unknown or the Ronin fighters to respond (·ÓãËé¡Í§¡ÓÅѧäÁè·ÃÒº½èÒÂËÃ×͹ѡúâùԹÂÔ§µÍºâµé) by using a M79 grenade which then hit the military tent next to Satri Wittaya school which the military used as the command centre (ÅÙ¡ÃÐàºÔ´àÍçÁ 79 ÅÙ¡áá·ÕèÂÔ§à¢éÒ仵¡àµç¹·ì·ËÒâéÒ§âçàÃÕ¹ʵÃÕÇÔ·ÂÒ ·Õèãªéà»ç¹¡Í§ºÑ­ªÒ¡ÒÃú¤ÃÑ駹Õé) and this caused a serious injury to Maj General Valit the Commander of the forces (·ÓãËéâ´¹ ¾Å.µ.ÇÅÔµ..«Öè§à»ç¹áÁè·Ñ¾ã¹¡Ò÷ÓÈÖ¡¤ÃÑ駹ÕéºÒ´à¨çºÊÒËÑÊ) and many other senior military officials (áÅÐâ´¹¹Ò·ËÒêÑé¹ÊÑ­­ÒºÑµÃËÅÒ¤¹¡çºÒ´à¨çº) so there was no commander to issue orders (·ÓãËé¡ÒÃÈÖ¡¤ÃÑ駹ÕéäÁèÁÕ¤¹ÊÑè§).

http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...tely-unprepared

Why repeating false statements aka telling lies? Or is that your kind of humor?

[Ricardo]

...

How about Abhisit's means to an end? He now says "It wasn't me, it wasn't the Army we're completely innocent. In fact it was terrorists." Which terrorists? Al quaida, the IRA or maybe Ethiopian pirates.

...

You appear to have missed Sae Daeng's claim, to be leading a group of gunmen, whom he called "Ronin' ? We have also all seen (except perhaps yourself) the Youtube-clips, showing gunmen dressed in black & wearing balaclava-helmets, roaming freely amongst the Red-Shirt crowds, and firing in a forwards-direction or at buildings ?

It seems highly-unlikely that these were soldiers, given their freedom-to-move, amongst the 'peaceful' protesters.

Do you think these might possibly be the men, whom PM-Abhisit clearly distinguishes from ordinary Red-Shirt supporters, and whom he now calls terrorists?

I doubt at this point anyone has really missed the Red leader Sae Daeng's taking responsibility for the grenading of the army and that his "ronin" are in the mix. I doubt that anyone has missed the weapons wandering around in the red controlled areas. I doubt anyone has missed the violent speeches of the other red leaders.

I agree, so why would Termad say something daft like "Which terrorists ?", and pretend not to know that they're now part of the 'peaceful protest', and possibly behind the campaign of grenade-attacks across the country for the past four weeks ?

[britmaveric]

Need high caliber\velocity type weapons for sniping. AK47 isn't suited for this sort of thing.

Try a M19.....

[moresomekl]

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

How do we know he means the PAD?

We don´t know, but he is MP from PTP. But i think it is good he says that there was i third party invold. I think I read somewhere that some reds leaders diened it.

Yes i know bout Chavalit . there was rumor soldiers shooting soldiers but think unfounded . I really dont know . Provocators i guess

Edited April 12, 2010 by moresomekl

[moresomekl]

Need high caliber\velocity type weapons for sniping. AK47 isn't suited for this sort of thing.

Try a M19.....

[RussellHantz]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

I hope this is your first and last inane post.

ALL assault rifles are "high powered".

"ALL assault rifles are "high powered." LOL I never once mentioned the word assault. Do you normally have such reading problems ?

Anyhow I got this information from the nation newspaper, who are calling it a super powered rifle (perhaps I should have said "super") They go on to say that these weapons are used by specially trained gunmen particularly in the army. Hmmm now what does that seem to say ?

Edited April 12, 2010 by RussellHantz

[Sunderland]

unlike ASTV which adheres to what is right and just.

:D

Sounds like ASTV/PAD are back in the game.

[tgw]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

I hope this is your first and last inane post.

ALL assault rifles are "high powered".

"ALL assault rifles are "high powered." LOL I never once mentioned the word assault. Do you normally have such reading problems ?

Anyhow I got this information from the nation newspaper, who are calling it a super powered rifle. They go on to say that these weapons are used by specially trained gunmen particularly in the army. Hmmm now what does that seem to say ?

super powered != high powered

not the same thing.

high powered is usually meaning that the rifle shoots supersonic bullets, with high penetrating power. But the term is not precisely defined, so you'll probably find people who disagree with me.

"super powered" is a completely different class of weapon, like the one you've shown in your post. They use long cartridges.

and with the reference to assault rifles, I wanted to say since both sides have assault rifles, the fact that the wounds have been caused by "high powered" weapons does not mean the military are the only guys responsible.

Edited April 12, 2010 by tgw

[moresomekl]

I doubt at this point anyone has really missed the Red leader Sae Daeng's taking responsibility for the grenading of the army and that his "ronin" are in the mix. I doubt that anyone has missed the weapons wandering around in the red controlled areas. I doubt anyone has missed the violent speeches of the other red leaders.

I agree, so why would Termad say something daft like "Which terrorists ?", and pretend not to know that they're now part of the 'peaceful protest', and possibly behind the campaign of grenade-attacks across the country for the past four weeks ?

Guys , if you dont have proof dont accuse anyone . Let Chavalit talk or the enquiry decide

[onthewire]

Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Is it really so difficult to guess?

The red mass believes they are fighting for democracy and justice, but look at the red leaders' personalities and ties with Thaksin.

And where does the money come from? The reds cost a minimum of 4 to 5 million USD per day.

The mob is misused by their criminal leaders.

Their goal is to take over Thailand. Luang Ta Maha Bua was right about Thaksin and his cronies. You see the result now.

The people who fuel the reds and who organize the violence have no interest in helping the poor to obtain more money or democracy.

Unfortunately, it seems like the red leadership has proven itself to be more shrewd than their government counterplayers and brought the country into a situation which cannot be solved at the current level.

They should have done away with Thaksin one year ago.

A CIA-style kidnapping to bring him to justice in Thailand would have been the best thing. Too late now.

The incidents with the army were a setup.

The reds did everything they could to provoke the government to bring the army in.

In fact, they forced the government to show that it had control of the army.

The army weren't numerous enough and was under strict orders not to fire live rounds at protesters, except to protect their lives.

It seems to me the criminal elements within the reds, which are controlled by the masterminds behind all this, had just been waiting for this moment to come.

Once the army was near the protesters, they attacked the army, firing assault rifles and grenades at the commanding army officers, as the murderer Sae Daeng boasted.

The reds had the dubious "help" of his "ronins" (criminals, really), who wore masks and carried AK47-like weapons.

It all benefits Thaksin and his friends.

Bringing the Army near the protesters was a strategic mistake, since the only possible outcome was bloodshed, regardless whether caused by the army or not.

But the government didn't have much of a choice - it was either being seen as powerless, unable to control the situation or run the risk of bringing the army in.

When the army units came within firing range of the protesters, the government had already lost.

I am very sad for Thailand, I hope a higher power steps in.

Well yes I think you are correct on some points but I don't think that Sae Daeng ordered this...

The is talk that it was someone who is much higher in Thailand than him

[lannarebirth]

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????

Seh Daeng and his Ronin Warriors. Not much doubt really. Don't know if there are others.

Not in Gen Chavalit eyes. He means PAD. But what would PAD gain from that? They know it will only help the reds.

How do we know he means the PAD?

In the recent past there have been references to a "Third Hand" and it was pretty obvious, then, they were alluding to the Privy Council. I do not know if that is who Chavalit is referring to here, today.