Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[way2muchcoffee]

^if true obviously military was leaking intel to the 3rd party.

There were early reports of military intel being leaked. This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Loads of soldiers have redshirt sympathies.

Or could go up higher than that.....

Yep. This is Thailand. Unexpected things happen. Any theory is probably about as good as the next, well except the one I subscribe to which is obviously the correct one.

[thailien8]

TV 3 reporting that someone tried to take out some major electrical pylons (towers) with explosives.

If they cause a prolonged blackout in Bangkok, a lot of people are gonna get mighty hot and bothered.

Does anyone have a battery-powered fan?

[chantorn]

http://www.boringdays.net/mystic-ak-47-fired-solder/

If you scroll down, you will find this post sign by a guy call Thaksin

"

13 April 2010 เมื่อ 04:06

Those pictures were posted in Pantip 5 hours after the crash..

The owner of those pics said that he took this shot while the red guard was seizing weapons from snipper..But you used these pics to discredit them all, how could you do this to other Thais?

The famous clip-the one which catched pictures of men in black outfits fired gun shots, if you look very closely without Bias..you will see that they were wearing black gloves not white..Uhm! just changed the gloves before shooting..sounds make sense or not, I believe you can answer it to yourself…

when you want to make an assumption which can be affected others, please carefully make it..if you are not quite sure then do not..it doesn’t make you look better or clever than anyone. Beside if one knows that you make a wrong assumption, you will be look down..

By the way, I understand you in one point..track back to your previous post. You are not a big fan of red shirts..let’s make this more advance..you hate them and attempt to discredit them all. If this is what you have to do in order to protect government which you do support, this is kind of success..but only among your friends or those who hate red …I know many people who do not trust this thing…

ทักษิณ

"

[Arkady]

http://www.boringdays.net/mystic-ak-47-fired-solder/

If you scroll down, you will find this post sign by a guy call Thaksin

"

13 April 2010 เมื่อ 04:06

Those pictures were posted in Pantip 5 hours after the crash..

The owner of those pics said that he took this shot while the red guard was seizing weapons from snipper..But you used these pics to discredit them all, how could you do this to other Thais?

The famous clip-the one which catched pictures of men in black outfits fired gun shots, if you look very closely without Bias..you will see that they were wearing black gloves not white..Uhm! just changed the gloves before shooting..sounds make sense or not, I believe you can answer it to yourself…

when you want to make an assumption which can be affected others, please carefully make it..if you are not quite sure then do not..it doesn’t make you look better or clever than anyone. Beside if one knows that you make a wrong assumption, you will be look down..

By the way, I understand you in one point..track back to your previous post. You are not a big fan of red shirts..let’s make this more advance..you hate them and

attempt to discredit them all. If this is what you have to do in order to protect government which you do support, this is kind of success..but only among your friends or those who hate red …I know many people who do not trust this thing…

ทักษิณ

"

Do Thai army "snippers" sneak up to within 20 yards of their targets and then blast them with buckshot? Whoever heard of a snipper using a pump action shot gun? LOL. Take another look at what the creep in black balaklava is holding in his hands.

[britmaveric]

Sniper not "snipper"

No, a sniper will be setup somewhere preferably high ground and concealed far away (least 300m away). Takes his shot then moves if spotted.

Snipers can target personnel or materiel, but most often they target the most important enemy personnel such as officers or specialists (e.g. communications operators) so as to cause maximum disruption to enemy operations. Other personnel they might target include those who pose an immediate threat to the sniper, like dog handlers, who are often employed in a search for snipers. A sniper identifies officers by their appearance and behavior such as symbols of rank, talking to radio operators, sitting as a passenger in a car, having military servants, binoculars/map cases or talking and moving position more frequently. If possible, snipers shoot in descending order by rank, or if rank is unavailable, they shoot to disrupt communications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Edited April 13, 2010 by britmaveric

[thailien8]

From The Nation:

"Red shirts seek to file complaint with police against PM

A former Central Investigation Bureau Tuesday represented the red-shirt people to file a complaint with police against the prime minister, accusing him of having unlawfully ordering troops to kill people."

Other than the tampered tape recording that the reds played on stage to their red sheep, do they have any real evidence of this outrageous accusation?

"Pol Lt-Gen Chaj Kuldirok asked assistant police commissioner-general Pol Lt Gen Pongsaphat Pongcharoen at the Royal Thai Police headquarters to ask him to provide some 100 police officers to receive complaints from red-shirt people.

Chaj said the injured protesters would later meet police officers to register their complaints against the prime minister."

It's all going well so far, according to Thaksin's evil scheme of undermining Thailand's best hope ever for an effective, good-hearted Prime Minister, Khun Abhisit, who can improve Thailand's precious image in the eyes of the world, and of so many potential tourists who mean so much to Thailand's fragile economy, not to mention foreign investors, who are now very nervous.

Former Thai policeman Thaksin still has lots of influence in the normally useless Thai police, who seem eager to co-operate in his grand scheme to bedevil poor Khun Abhisit into submission.

[lannarebirth]

http://www.boringdays.net/mystic-ak-47-fired-solder/

If you scroll down, you will find this post sign by a guy call Thaksin

"

13 April 2010 เมื่อ 04:06

Those pictures were posted in Pantip 5 hours after the crash..

The owner of those pics said that he took this shot while the red guard was seizing weapons from snipper..But you used these pics to discredit them all, how could you do this to other Thais?

The famous clip-the one which catched pictures of men in black outfits fired gun shots, if you look very closely without Bias..you will see that they were wearing black gloves not white..Uhm! just changed the gloves before shooting..sounds make sense or not, I believe you can answer it to yourself…

when you want to make an assumption which can be affected others, please carefully make it..if you are not quite sure then do not..it doesn't make you look better or clever than anyone. Beside if one knows that you make a wrong assumption, you will be look down..

By the way, I understand you in one point..track back to your previous post. You are not a big fan of red shirts..let's make this more advance..you hate them and attempt to discredit them all. If this is what you have to do in order to protect government which you do support, this is kind of success..but only among your friends or those who hate red …I know many people who do not trust this thing…

ทักษิณ

"

With all due respect, that's some pretty weak "spin".

[mrparanoid]

Am still bothered by the photo above. Not many cities in the world where a guy in disguise can parade around with a loaded automatic weapon. He should be arrested or shot by security personnel. As gunners like him are not arrested or shot on sight, is yet another indication of Thai gov't security gone soft.

They are not loaded. They don't even have the magazines inserted.

[mrparanoid]

Of course Seh Deang will not confess that his men was firing live rounds, granades and that he had snippers.

Neither will the Army. Even if it's on video that they fired live rounds straight into the crowd of demonstrators..

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

[hanuman1]

After reading this short article: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/ISOC-...o-30127130.html I have reached a tentative conclusion, as follows:

The deadly situation that unfolded Saturday night at the Democracy Monument was not a routine confrontation that spontaneously spun out of control. It was initially a routine confrontation - as has occurred numerous times, at numerous locations over the past three weeks. But - someone put together a "hunter-killer" team to stalk a specific target - that being Army Colonel Romklao - and they identified the confrontation at Democracy Monument as involving a unit commanded by this Colonel. The team deployed into positions - some in overwatch positions above street level, some in combat gear, mingling with the protesters. Included in the overwatch group was one or more "spotters - using laser pointers to designate targets for an M79 grenadier.

They basically set up an ambush assassination, using the protest for cover

When it was time to execute, the team then had their street-level element initiate fire on the soldiers - and possibly also on the protesters - to create pandemonium. This then gave them the cover they need to basically assassinate Colonel Romklao. His death would look like a random death within the "fog of war" - but he was the actual target of the entire operation. Everything else was just collateral damage, incidental to this targeted "hit".

In the above hypothesis, I define the Colonel as the target - but the target may have been the entire Command Group of this regiment.

There is really no other good explanation for why anyone would be using laser pointers to designate targets within the military force.

What the article alludes to is how it would take a very experienced spotter to be able to pick out specific command group targets - in the dark, with CS gas residue in the air, gunfire smoke and confusion rampant. Thus - the military knows that it was other active or retired Thai military spotters at work. It also means that the larger deadly incident was really not avoidable. It was part of plan that was predetermined - and would have been forced to happen, no matter how well the Thai Army did its job.

I wonder what the Thai Amy brass is thinking right now.

I can't agree with this. If they wanted that Colonel dead so badly, why didn't they just do the usual - choose any normal working day, follow the guy from his home on a motorbike and shoot him as he stopped at some traffic lights. This method often has a high rate of success, can be done at the killer's choice of date and requires no more intelligence than what time the guy leaves his house in the morning.

Yet you think they'd rather wait for all this time until a mob/army standoff occurs and take the risk of being spotted by dozens of video cameras in the area? It doesn't seem to make much sense.

Edited April 13, 2010 by hanuman1

[mrparanoid]

Some things we know for sure, other things we can speculate in.

What do we know for sure?

1: People on both sides were killed by live rounds.

2: Red side used live rounds and grenades.

3: Black cloth men with guns in the red crowd.

4: Red side used live rounds and grenades, molotov coctails etc

5: Army used teargas and rubber bullets

What is almost certain?

1: A third part was involved

2: There were snippers

Then we can speculate in many directions. The army could have used live rounds, but we don´t know that for sure. We need more information from the autospy.

Just correcting you..

What do we know for sure?

1: People on both sides were killed by live rounds.

2: Both sides used live rounds.

3: Black clothed men with guns in the red crowd.

4: Red side used firearms. Possibly with live ammo. They also used molotov cocktails etc

5: Army used teargas and rubber bullets AND LIVE AMMO

What is also certain?

1: A third part was involved

2: There were snipers

Then we can speculate in many directions. The army used live rounds, we now know that for sure. We also have more information from the autospy that indicates professional snipers were involved.

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[TheOldWolf]

Some things we know for sure, other things we can speculate in.

What do we know for sure?

1: People on both sides were killed by live rounds.

2: Red side used live rounds and grenades.

3: Black cloth men with guns in the red crowd.

4: Red side used live rounds and grenades, molotov coctails etc

5: Army used teargas and rubber bullets

What is almost certain?

1: A third part was involved

2: There were snippers

Then we can speculate in many directions. The army could have used live rounds, but we don´t know that for sure. We need more information from the autospy.

Just correcting you..

What do we know for sure?

1: People on both sides were killed by live rounds.

2: Both sides used live rounds.

3: Black clothed men with guns in the red crowd.

4: Red side used firearms. Possibly with live ammo. They also used molotov cocktails etc

5: Army used teargas and rubber bullets AND LIVE AMMO

What is also certain?

1: A third part was involved

2: There were snipers

Then we can speculate in many directions. The army used live rounds, we now know that for sure. We also have more information from the autospy that indicates professional snipers were involved.

Do you know that for certain? Proof? I am not saying the army didnt use live rounds, but I have seen no clear evidance. Now we also know for sure there were a third party involved on the red side.

[britmaveric]

^or the 3rd party could be on the Thai military side.

[TheOldWolf]

^or the 3rd party could be on the Thai military side.

The read leaders have already confirmed that it was a third party on their side

[elcent]

^or the 3rd party could be on the Thai military side.

The read leaders have already confirmed that it was a third party on their side

well, today my observation was that I saw a motorcycle taxi packed with army uniforms as if he was delivering to somewhere around ABAC Ram.

[valerian]

Neither will the Army. Even if it's on video that they fired live rounds straight into the crowd of demonstrators..

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

Why post propaganda crap? Where in the video do you see anyone firing live rounds "straight into the crowd of demonstrators.."?

I am seing military shooting at an angle that seems to be above the level of the military person.

I.e, if the crowd is positioned at a distance they might well be shooting above the crowds heads...

And.. the million dollar question... why isn't the cameraman filming the crowd as it's being hit by all the bullets?

[elcent]

^or the 3rd party could be on the Thai military side.

The read leaders have already confirmed that it was a third party on their side

well, today my observation was that I saw a motorcycle taxi packed with army uniforms as if he was delivering to somewhere around ABAC Ram.

I mean he was heading to Ram direction on new Rama 9

[mrparanoid]

^or the 3rd party could be on the Thai military side.

The read leaders have already confirmed that it was a third party on their side

Do you not comprehend that the people the red leaders have openly said were on their side are the "ronin warriors" or the "black warriors"? The armed people wearing black amongst the red shirt demonstrators? NOT the snipers/people who shot the M79 grenade into the military camp.

[mrparanoid]

Why post propaganda crap? Where in the video do you see anyone firing live rounds "straight into the crowd of demonstrators.."?

I am seing military shooting at an angle that seems to be above the level of the military person.

I.e, if the crowd is positioned at a distance they might well be shooting above the crowds heads...

And.. the million dollar question... why isn't the cameraman filming the crowd as it's being hit by all the bullets?

I guess you can't read? Maybe your eyesight isn't that good either?

How tiny do you have to be if these bullets go above your head?

At 1'25 in the FRANCE 24 video above, Thai soldiers can be seen firing their automatic rifles directly at the protesters.

"We visited different hospitals Sunday morning and we've seen several victims with bullet wounds in the head (…) It's really hard to believe the official declaration that mentions only rubber bullets and troops firing into the air", says Cyril Payen, FRANCE 24's correspondent in Bangkok, who was at the scene of the fighting on Saturday night.

He was there.. Filming. Witnessing it LIVE.. Were you?

This from Al Jazeera

Autopsies carried out on the bodies of nine protesters killed in clashes with Thai security forces in Bangkok at the weekend have revealed they were struck by live rounds.

Al Jazeera

[mrparanoid]

This from an Australian newspage. Quoting tourists who WERE THERE.

Reports say up to 15 people were killed - a hospital spokesman last night confirmed 10 deaths - and more than 600 injured, after soldiers, who initially fired rubber bullets at protesters, began firing live rounds.

TheAge

''I was just standing there, taking pictures, then the guy near me threw something at the troops... I think it was a bamboo stick... and they just started shooting at him.

''The first bullet just missed me, it was so loud, I could feel it come right past me, it must have missed me by a foot.''

Mr Gilmore told The Age that the troops fired rubber bullets initially.

This from REUTERS

An afternoon offensive ended in a standoff with many wounded. After dark, troops opened fire again with rubber bullets about 500 meters (1,600 feet) away at an intersection leading to Khao San Road. Some fired live rounds. Helicopters dropped tear gas.

This from BBC.. Again a reporter quoting someone who WAS THERE.

Local media reported that both sides were firing weapons and detonating explosive devices. Images broadcast on television showed chaotic scenes, with clouds of tear gas enveloping the streets.

Paul, a British teacher who lives in Thailand, told the BBC he had been in a crowd of protesters across the road from the Khao San intersection - where later the clashes spread - when one man was shot in the chest. It is not known if he was one of the dead.

"There were shots, but I thought they were rubber bullets until I saw what happened to the man. He was around 50 years old, and waving a flag from a pick-up truck. His head was 5ft above from the highest point of the truck."

"He looked normal and then fell to the ground," he added. "The army were firing live rounds on civilians. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself."

Now please tell me these are all biased and unreliable sources. Or just continue posting crap like you are used to.

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[elcent]

it's alriht to desperse, but please just with the right people and attitude. Otherwise it's all a game ...

"len Computer ... "

[Insight]

Why post propaganda crap? Where in the video do you see anyone firing live rounds "straight into the crowd of demonstrators.."?

I am seing military shooting at an angle that seems to be above the level of the military person.

I.e, if the crowd is positioned at a distance they might well be shooting above the crowds heads...

And.. the million dollar question... why isn't the cameraman filming the crowd as it's being hit by all the bullets?

I guess you can't read? Maybe your eyesight isn't that good either?

How tiny do you have to be if these bullets go above your head?

At 1'25 in the FRANCE 24 video above, Thai soldiers can be seen firing their automatic rifles directly at the protesters.

"We visited different hospitals Sunday morning and we've seen several victims with bullet wounds in the head (…) It's really hard to believe the official declaration that mentions only rubber bullets and troops firing into the air", says Cyril Payen, FRANCE 24's correspondent in Bangkok, who was at the scene of the fighting on Saturday night.

He was there.. Filming. Witnessing it LIVE.. Were you?

This from Al Jazeera

Autopsies carried out on the bodies of nine protesters killed in clashes with Thai security forces in Bangkok at the weekend have revealed they were struck by live rounds.

Al Jazeera

If you watch that clip it's very clear the suspected "live ammo" was used after they had came under attack and suffered heavy casualties. In other words, were fully aware of the very dangerous threat now facing them.

[hpl]

the overall plan was to sacrifice a few of their own ordinary joe public reds to create an international uproar and get the public's sympathy on the red side

kill a few soldiers too but certainly not as many, and absolutely not with the same snipers bullets

this was necessary to create an imbalance in the death toll to try to show that the Army were the protagonists

Sae Daeng, the seemingly forgotten title-holder of Leader Of The People's Army Of Thailand and Red UDD Leader, is prime suspect of organizing these murderous Ronin warriors.

He has the background, motivation, opportunity, equipment, and ability to pull off these clandestine black shirt operations.

He IS a red shirt. He also wouldn't hesitate to take out a few of his own to further the cause.

He IS a very close associate of Thaksin with probably more visits to him than any other Thai over the past 18 months.

He IS on bail for illegal possession of grenades and automatic weapons found in his home and other associates.

He IS highly trained in a wide assortment of weapons as well as tactical operations.

He IS uhmm.... seemingly more than a bit disturbed, and apparently unashamed about it with another of his own pics :

A red shirt leader of black shirts while still wearing army green camo.

Edited April 13, 2010 by hpl

[britmaveric]

Nice stuffed animals?

[mrparanoid]

If you watch that clip it's very clear the suspected "live ammo" was used after they had came under attack and suffered heavy casualties. In other words, were fully aware of the very dangerous threat now facing them.

Of course. That is not in question. And in such a situation they should also be expected to. And as you can see, they do not empty their clips into the crowd either but fire a few rounds each. It was also straight after a grenade or possibly an M79 grenade was shot into their area so they were, in a way, defending their own lives. What I find incomprehensible is people who refuse to look at information coming from several different unbiased news agencies and relentlessly stick to far-out fantasy theories and unreliable hearsay... Regardless of what side they support, I might add.

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[hpl]

I have looked closely at many of the videos posted around the web.

Circumstantial evidence leads me to forming the opinion the guys in black decided to start the bloodbath by shooting people from both sides in the hope they would initiate a bloodbath. Peaceful protests wouldn't have furthered their agenda.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Anyone who thinks higher up people wouldn't sacrifice a few of the protesters for the benefit of the larger cause is naive.

This is about that same as my interpretation of the various video and photographic events.

Thirded.

[hpl]

Nice stuffed animals?

I wonder what the voices that he hears from them are saying.

[britmaveric]

^exactly sacrifice a few army personnel to further one's agenda within the military. Anyone who doesnt think this is possible is also naive!

[Insight]

If you watch that clip it's very clear the suspected "live ammo" was used after they had came under attack and suffered heavy casualties. In other words, were fully aware of the very dangerous threat now facing them.

Of course. That is not in question. And in such a situation they should also be expected to. And as you can see, they do not empty their clips into the crowd either but fire a few rounds each. It was also straight after a grenade or possibly an M79 grenads was shot into their area so they were, in a way, defending their own lives. What I find incomprehensible is people who refuse to look at information coming from several different unbiased news agencies relentlessly stick to far-out fantasy theories and unreliable hearsay... Regardless of what side they support, I might add.

True - everything needs to be weighed up. Personally I don't think the France24 clip does the red shirts any favours whatsoever IMHO; the army were clearly attacked first. The significance if the line of the govt is only highlighted with the clip's commentary; without it the actions of the army are perfectly justifiable in such a situation IMHO.

There's many other mobile phone clips also of the events of the night without any (English) commentary doing the rounds right now that could end up being far more revealing than any news agency footage.

[Insight]

I have looked closely at many of the videos posted around the web.

Circumstantial evidence leads me to forming the opinion the guys in black decided to start the bloodbath by shooting people from both sides in the hope they would initiate a bloodbath. Peaceful protests wouldn't have furthered their agenda.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Anyone who thinks higher up people wouldn't sacrifice a few of the protesters for the benefit of the larger cause is naive.

This is about that same as my interpretation of the various video and photographic events.

Thirded.

+1 here.

Poll time perhaps?

/edit - I also believe the primary source of funding for the red shirts and its militia was expecting the conflict to escalate once it started rather than retaliate. The move on the govts part to call a ceasefire has instead given everybody time to weigh up the evidence and make their own opinions, rather than it being lost in this proverbial "fog of war" that no doubt would of occurred should there of been a drawn out battle. The moves by the red shirts to attempt to recover their own bodies from the morgues before the chance of an official autopsy is also very telling.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Insight