These Bloody Clashes Must Cease Immediately: Thailand

[jdinasia]

"I'm not asking you to take sides," Abhisit reportedly said, amid rumours of him falling out with military. "I'm just asking you to protect the legal power of the state."

If the military had 'protected the legal power of the state' last October, when the Samak government asked it to remove yellow shirt protestors from governement house and if they'd done so in December and removed the yellow shirts from the airport. Abhisit wouldn't be in power and there would have been none of this bloodshed.

The police tried on Oct 7th ---- using outdated chinese RDX laced military ordinance AFTER blocking all avenues of egress. They managed to kill and maim and not much else.

The premise of your argument is still flawed in that PPP would still have been disbanded and the current situation would still have come about in all liklihood. The difference is that blood would have been on the streets of BKK much faster this time.

[horndevil]

The opinion writer can call it 'gory' if he/she wants, but all the deaths yesterday comprised one third of a daily average for road carnage on any day of the year in Thailand. Oops, sorry, not 'any day of the year' .....road deaths double for New Years and for Songkran. Is the gore any less, when a 5 year old girl and her 2 year old brother have their heads smashed on the pavement by some ignorant drunk driver?

Are you actually trying to belittle those who died last night by saying their deaths are no more consequential than accidental deaths?

Is your bloodlust not yet sated with 15+ dead and 100s wounded?

How many dead do you want/need before you will care that Thais are purposefully killing other Thais for their respective rich meglomaniacs?

I dont think that he is sayin that their deaths are of no consequence, just putting it into perspective that although a tragety has happened (that in my opionion was exactly what the red leadership was wishing for) far greater trageties happen everyday without anyone caring.

[rogera]

To Guyshown

Quote/OK -- too wait for any length of time to afford the people the right vote and elect a government of the peoples choice not a Government that was put in place by the actions of a Coup is obserd! It is obvious that the current Goverment is worried that it will not be elected by the people. Question were they ever elected by the people? Again this as much as everyone keeps trying to make it is not about Thaksin this is about the process of the current government...

[/unquote]

You miss the whole point and either do not understand the parliamentary system or come from a presidential form of government. Here are the facts:

It is an established parliamentary procedure in most parliamentary systems of government where a party in power and holding the majority of MPs votes loses that parliamentary majority, there are two options;

1. Hold a new election

2. Try to reform the government by putting together a coalition of MPs whose votes become the majority.

This is laid down in the Thai constitution and it follows broadly the system employed in other parliamentary systems of government.

The MPs obviously decided that an election would not solve the political problem and so opted for choice no. 2.

Abhisit was elected PM by virtue of the fact that he managed to cobble together a coalition of elected MPs that voted him into the position. This is no different to the way Somchai Wongsawat was elected when Samak Sundaravej was dismissed as PM by court order. As the parliament opted for choice #2, there is no way in hel_l that Abhisit lacks legitimacy. He was able to gather the majority of votes of MPs to form a democrat-led government in accordance with normal parliamentary procedure. The fact that Thaksin was ousted by a coup in no way negates the fact that parliamentary protocol was followed in accordance with the law and the constitution.

It might help to clarify your thoughts if you understand how the system works.

[way2muchcoffee]

Interesting how most people are behaving as if it's all over by now. The government has shown its mighty military power and defended democracy and the lesson should have been that the anarchists cannot get away with their crimes. As if it were as simple as that...

What happened is that the army tried to restore order. The result is that by now already 18 people are dead and more than 800 injured - the army retreated but the Reds Shirts are still occupying Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong - anything but order is restored. The only tangible result of that operation might be that now both parties agreed to talk again.

If the level of pressure and violence was not enough to restore order how many lives will be lost once the army increases pressure to finally clear Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong? Is that the only solution?

Give peace a chance again and let's hope that the talks will finally end in an acceptable compromise.

I agree. For weeks now radicals have been calling people they don't even know vile names. There has been talk about winners and losers. There have been no winners. Many families have lost loved ones and many others have been injured. I hardly call that winning.

Forgetting the disgrace of politicians and Generals using soldiers to fire at other Thais, It has to stop and negotiations must start.

Neither side can be stubborn. Both have to give. It is ridiculous to demand 9 months when the rest of the world knows it only take a couple months at the very extreme. The opposition knows also that the mechanics of holding a national election takes more that 15 days. Why don't persons of good will from the government and the opposition begin negotiations to define the framework for a dissolution and election determining exactly how much time is required for the mechanics of an election. Then go to their respective groups and convince them that's the best that both sides can achieve.

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together.

It is ridiculous to demand 15 days dissolution when there are 20 months remaining before elections are due. 9 months is more than fair and certainly a reasonable compromise.

[way2muchcoffee]

It is time to find an agreement acceptable to all. The alternatives are more deaths, coup, waiting until someone wins and then having others from another side repeating this. Talking and compromising, which means not just repeating some party line, is needed more than ever.

I agree for the most part. The issue is how to proceed.

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets. THEN set up the constitution reform. THEN fall on his sword and resign and have someone else step up. Dissolve parliament in about 9 months and have elections at the end of the year.

What you propose is still the war.....Please, take some Altitude and come back with a peaceful solution

No Jerry. What the reds are, have been, and will continue to propose is war unless they get their way right now. That's the bottom line. They are unwilling to negotiate or compromise.

[yoshiwara]

To Guyshown

Quote/OK -- too wait for any length of time to afford the people the right vote and elect a government of the peoples choice not a Government that was put in place by the actions of a Coup is obserd! It is obvious that the current Goverment is worried that it will not be elected by the people. Question were they ever elected by the people? Again this as much as everyone keeps trying to make it is not about Thaksin this is about the process of the current government...

[/unquote]

You miss the whole point and either do not understand the parliamentary system or come from a presidential form of government. Here are the facts:

It is an established parliamentary procedure in most parliamentary systems of government where a party in power and holding the majority of MPs votes loses that parliamentary majority, there are two options;

1. Hold a new election

2. Try to reform the government by putting together a coalition of MPs whose votes become the majority.

This is laid down in the Thai constitution and it follows broadly the system employed in other parliamentary systems of government.

The MPs obviously decided that an election would not solve the political problem and so opted for choice no. 2.

Abhisit was elected PM by virtue of the fact that he managed to cobble together a coalition of elected MPs that voted him into the position. This is no different to the way Somchai Wongsawat was elected when Samak Sundaravej was dismissed as PM by court order. As the parliament opted for choice #2, there is no way in hel_l that Abhisit lacks legitimacy. He was able to gather the majority of votes of MPs to form a democrat-led government in accordance with normal parliamentary procedure. The fact that Thaksin was ousted by a coup in no way negates the fact that parliamentary protocol was followed in accordance with the law and the constitution.

It might help to clarify your thoughts if you understand how the system works.

They know how the system works.

or more importantly Thaksin knows how the system works.

The argument of course is not about democracy, or even having an election.

Elections are scheduled.

The argument is that Thaksin wants elections now, including a green light on electoral fraud.

The reason for him wanting them now is so he can get his relatives and cronies into the army leadership.

The window closes inside 9 months.

after 9 months an election is of no use to him at all if he cannot control the high points of state power.

It is this objective which has dictated why he ordered the reds to shoot their way into power.

Stand by for the red apologist hand-wringing around the demand for elections now to bring peace.

Or else.

Red threats of more violence certainly on the agenda.

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

[Jerrytheyoung]

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the ‘Red Shirt’ people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

[siampolee]

Thaksin tweets on twitter

(1) In his twitter site, the former PM Thaksin Shinnawat, expressed his condolences for the families of the 14 dead protestors last night, calling them the democracy protectors while salute all the 850 injured for their courage.

( 2) He also pleaded to the military as well as the government not to perceive the red shirts as their enemy but rather Thai citizens just like the rest of the nation.

(3) They paid taxes for all the weapons used against them.

(4) He warned that the government should not let power and interests cloud their judgment in resolving this political unrest

********************************************************************************

************************

(1) However he doesn't seem to worry that much about them and offer financial assistance as they died trying to protect his ill gotten gains

(2) Excuse me but threats by the group he supports to burn Bangkok to the ground, derail the B.T.S. trains, promise to instigate violence the threatening of personal violence to members of the government and comments that those government members should get out of Thailand are not threatening behaviour ? I thought Thaksin had a Ph.D in criminal science or something similar.

Perhaps Ph.D stands for Permanent Head Damage?

(3) At least they had paid taxes on their earnings and profits unlike you Thaksin.

(4) I didn't notice you Thaksin exercising the judgement of Solomon and walking a neutral course when you were in power

Edited April 11, 2010 by siampolee

[jdinasia]

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the 'Red Shirt' people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

Keeping a functional civil government is only in the country's best interest. If the government caves immediately then out come the yellows, then the reds, then the yellows. then the reds......

[animatic]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

When a wild boar goes mad in a village, the village as a unit

tries to either drive it off or kill it, even if some get injured in the trying,

because to NOT deal with it, means it will tear the village apart.

would you say the same thing if that wild boar is your family pet?

In which case it wouldn't be wild, would it?

Ting tong response.

And again ignoring it as being a metaphorical example.

[yoshiwara]

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the ‘Red Shirt’ people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

It is not an existential fight between falcons and doves.

It is a fight for very explicit objectives and it isn't about 'democracy'.

I will re-iterate.

Thaksin will and has unleashed armed struggle in order to facilitate to seize the positions of power in the army.

The objective is exactly the same as what he was trying to do which triggered the coup.

The jockeying for position as the wronged peaceful side is just for show.

The statement by Gen Prayuth is a reasonable summary of what state institutions need to do in face of armed attacks by the Thaksin forces.

Further negotiations between the sides will only have effect if one of the following happens.

. The reds disassociate themselves from Thaksin (this will never happen)

. The reds split (possible)

To suggest, as forum Thaksin cheerleaders have been doing, that either fake reds or the army started the armed battle is as big a lie as Thaksin accusing fake reds of the violence last Songkran.

They wanted a fight.

They started a fight.

They will lose the fight.

[NCFC]

I'm confused. Earlier I saw on TV news a report that the military said they were not shooting at other Thais. When confronted with TV footage showing weapons being fire parallel to the ground, they story changed. Then it was they only fired rubber bullets at Thais. They had real bullets were firing into the air. Now on the closed new forum I The Nation saying the government is saying that they will prove the government did not use live rounds.

It can't be all of that. They either did or did not use live rounds. If they shot rubber bullets at Thais and live round into the air then they used live rounds. Please pick one story and stay with it.

Otherwise you sound like Baghdad Bob.

Let's don't lose site of the fact the government and opposition need to negotiate to resolve this problem for the good of Thailand.

It's time for some trusted person from the government should figure out the real amount of time it takes to hold an election and then work with a trusted opposition negotiator get the process started. No more of the hardline 9 month timeframe. It should be somewhere around a month timeframe. Put these stubborn politicians ou to pasture.

Eye witness accounts on the BBC website today say that army fired live rounds directly into the crowd.

[animatic]

"I'm not asking you to take sides," Abhisit reportedly said, amid rumours of him falling out with military. "I'm just asking you to protect the legal power of the state."

If the military had 'protected the legal power of the state' last October, when the Samak government asked it to remove yellow shirt protestors from governement house and if they'd done so in December and removed the yellow shirts from the airport. Abhisit wouldn't be in power and there would have been none of this bloodshed.

Incorrect because the PPP would still have been dissolved that month either way.

Iy was only brought forward about 2 weeks by the airport.

Besides the airport was more about preventing PPP from writing a go home free pass

for Thaksin and TRT banned before they were dissolved.

PPP was a lame duck hedaed for the dumpster, no matter what.

[Moonrakers]

I'm confused.

Correct!

[neverdie]

I'm confused.

Correct!

Is it any wonder?

[Jerrytheyoung]

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the 'Red Shirt' people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

Keeping a functional civil government is only in the country's best interest. If the government caves immediately then out come the yellows, then the reds, then the yellows. then the reds......

According to a Poll published in a Website we cannot named 92% of Thais people put PEACE as the first priority.

I expect that a Government of National Unity will take over next week in order to clean the deck of this successions of Coups, dismisses of PM (some under the funny pretext cooking in a TV show), all this successions of events are a stain on the credibility of Abhisit and throws a doubt on his legitimacy (wrongly or truly, it is not the question- It is an endless debate). On the other side, you have a Northern population who is over-exploited and needs urgent measures. I do agree with some of you that Thaksin must not come back and I will be on your side if it happens.

Urgently the Thai system needs amendments, those amendments have to be endorsed by the Parliament which can be dissolved only when the amendments to Charter have been implemented. Then, Elections can be set up. How long it will take? We have to be serious, to consider the time to pass the amendments through the parliament and to set up the Elections. To throw figures without reality is meaningless. It has to be discussed by Responsible and experiienced People. I hope -I repeat myself- that the 4 Ex PMs (Anand, Chavalit,Banharm and Chuan Leekpai) will arrive to set a proposal and the roadmap to Elections.

One Personnality above any Parties must manage this period in order to re-establish Peace and confidence between Thais to overpass this current division. Abhisit because he is too much engaged on one side cannot embody this third way. but he can come back in few months through the elections.

This is my hope.

A third way, a Charter corrected of its major flaws, Peace and Harmony in Thailand.

[animatic]

I'm confused.

Correct!

Is it any wonder?

It's been obvious.

But it's so nice, that we can be so nice, about it all.

[animatic]

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the 'Red Shirt' people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

Keeping a functional civil government is only in the country's best interest. If the government caves immediately then out come the yellows, then the reds, then the yellows. then the reds......

According to a Poll published in a Website we cannot named 92% of Thais people put PEACE as the first priority.

I expect that a Government of National Unity will take over next week in order to clean the deck of this successions of Coups, dismisses of PM (some under the funny pretext cooking in a TV show), all this successions of events are a stain on the credibility of Abhisit and throws a doubt on his legitimacy (wrongly or truly, it is not the question- It is an endless debate). On the other side, you have a Northern population who is over-exploited and needs urgent measures. I do agree with some of you that Thaksin must not come back and I will be on your side if it happens.

Urgently the Thai system needs amendments, those amendments have to be endorsed by the Parliament which can be dissolved only when the amendments to Charter have been implemented. Then, Elections can be set up. How long it will take? We have to be serious, to consider the time to pass the amendments through the parliament and to set up the Elections. To throw figures without reality is meaningless. It has to be discussed by Responsible and experiienced People. I hope -I repeat myself- that the 4 Ex PMs (Anand, Chavalit,Banharm and Chuan Leekpai) will arrive to set a proposal and the roadmap to Elections.

One Personnality above any Parties must manage this period in order to re-establish Peace and confidence between Thais to overpass this current division. Abhisit because he is too much engaged on one side cannot embody this third way. but he can come back in few months through the elections.

This is my hope.

A third way, a Charter corrected of its major flaws, Peace and Harmony in Thailand.

Anand and Chuan?

Or

Suthep and Chalerm?

There's unity and theres unity.

[OJAS]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

If Abhisit were forced to resign, the TEMPORARY outcome would be a power vacuum which would inevitably be filled my another military coup IMHO. Does anyone seriously believe that the Army would stand idly by in such an event?

[yoshiwara]

I'm confused.

Correct!

Is it any wonder?

Is he sure that he is confused?

[punisher]

The result has been gory.

The opinion writer can call it 'gory' if he/she wants, but all the deaths yesterday comprised one third of a daily average for road carnage on any day of the year in Thailand. Oops, sorry, not 'any day of the year' .....road deaths double for New Years and for Songkran. Is the gore any less, when a 5 year old girl and her 2 year old brother have their heads smashed on the pavement by some ignorant drunk driver?

The title of the Editorial is hand-wringing at its best. Sure, no one likes to see people getting injured or killed. However, the Red Shirt leaders have been egging on the authorities for weeks, and the recent fracas is what the Reds have been aiming for. They even stole dead bodies and paraded them on a public stage! After the Red leaders get refreshed from staying at their plush hotels, they'll go back to the Red stages and yell and prance at the manipulated folks who slept on reed mats on dirty sidewalks - to fight for democracy - which any observer knows is a mean ruse. There's no democracy among the Reds. They're a withering minority who are paid to stay in Bkk, and who have leaders who dictate what they should do (note: democracies shouldn't have dictators), .....all in a thinly disguised objective to bring a power hungry rich man - back to power and back to padding his ill-gained fortune.

This is not about toxin anymore,the current government is not free elected,the current government is a puppet of royalists,Military and bkk elite,the current government said "no violence against the demonstrators,they said they use rubber bullets,how about u read BBC or other international news,a Japanese reporter got shot by a bullet but not rubber,others too,it is so sad to see this happens,the current government is a bunch of liars and killers,and again this is not about toxin anymore,those people don't want to die for 1000baht,they want just democracy,they want one law for everybody,if u followed the news well,then u know yellows still not trialed,Ec refuse to work about 258mio baht,toxin got sentenced by the same people who sacked him,how legal is this?I don't like toxin,but since he is gone,Thailand goes down,so sad

[Jerrytheyoung]

In any case both sides have to change their Rhetorics. At 92%, Thais want PEACE so the Falcons represent 8% (4% on each side).

This should cool down everybody......

Edited April 11, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[way2muchcoffee]

In any case both sides have to change their Rhetorics. At 92%, Thais want PEACE so the Falcons represent 8% (4% on each side).

This should cool down everybody......

I really hope so.

Perhaps after the shock and horror over yesterday's events fades a little and realization sets in one can only hope that all sides give honest negotiations another attempt. It is the only way out of this crisis.

[oddziees]

Can I ask a stupid question in view of what's been happening? Do you think the Red shirts are likely to give in? My fear is may more people will die and nothing is resolved. I'm no great shakes at politics even my own country's, but, I do feel for the people of Thailand.

[BWPattaya]

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Giving in to blackmail, extortion, threats and demands never works. It only encourages the criminals to push for more, and increase the level of the threats they will utter, to get what they want.

I think Abhisit has played this very well, he has given the red shirts enough rope to hang themselves. They have shown themselves to be no more than thugs, paid to support a criminal who is on the run. Their leader has blood on his hands from deaths in the war against drugs, the Tak Bai massacre etc. What does he want? Why destroy Thailand? For greed? For power?

The sooner he is gone for good the better. Thailand can get on with the process of healing the rifts created by this megalomaniac.

[VegasVic]

The result has been gory.

The opinion writer can call it 'gory' if he/she wants, but all the deaths yesterday comprised one third of a daily average for road carnage on any day of the year in Thailand. Oops, sorry, not 'any day of the year' .....road deaths double for New Years and for Songkran. Is the gore any less, when a 5 year old girl and her 2 year old brother have their heads smashed on the pavement by some ignorant drunk driver?

The title of the Editorial is hand-wringing at its best. Sure, no one likes to see people getting injured or killed. However, the Red Shirt leaders have been egging on the authorities for weeks, and the recent fracas is what the Reds have been aiming for. They even stole dead bodies and paraded them on a public stage! After the Red leaders get refreshed from staying at their plush hotels, they'll go back to the Red stages and yell and prance at the manipulated folks who slept on reed mats on dirty sidewalks - to fight for democracy - which any observer knows is a mean ruse. There's no democracy among the Reds. They're a withering minority who are paid to stay in Bkk, and who have leaders who dictate what they should do (note: democracies shouldn't have dictators), .....all in a thinly disguised objective to bring a power hungry rich man - back to power and back to padding his ill-gained fortune.

This is not about toxin anymore,the current government is not free elected,the current government is a puppet of royalists,Military and bkk elite,the current government said "no violence against the demonstrators,they said they use rubber bullets,how about u read BBC or other international news,a Japanese reporter got shot by a bullet but not rubber,others too,it is so sad to see this happens,the current government is a bunch of liars and killers,and again this is not about toxin anymore,those people don't want to die for 1000baht,they want just democracy,they want one law for everybody,if u followed the news well,then u know yellows still not trialed,Ec refuse to work about 258mio baht,toxin got sentenced by the same people who sacked him,how legal is this?I don't like toxin,but since he is gone,Thailand goes down,so sad

Very well stated punisher. I had a bad feeling when the government closed down the red shirt TV station, anytime you censure speech like that means that you don't want the people to know what is going on or more importantly what is about to happen. I think from the moment that the goverment closed down that TV staion, they knew that the situation would become violent The governemnt and many of the yellow farangs on this board don't seem to understand that this is not really about Thaksin anymore, that this movement has widespread support across the countryside. The fact that a popular Prime minister was overthrown while he was out of the country certainly was the starting point of this movement, but the real undercurrent here is the fact that 10's of millions of Thais across the countryside are fed up with a small minority of Thai-chineese elite in Bangkok trying to grab complete power and dictating to them what will be, because they were able to install a few key military leaders and judges to help them gain power. I fear that if Abhisit doesn't back down and have free and fair leections ASAP then this situation will escalate and instread of Bangkok being filed with 80,000 protesters it will be filled with 2 or 3 million protesters. At this point in time Thaksin is no longer the issue, this movement has taken on a life of its own and Abhisit needs to recognize that and act accordingly or else this could esaily erupt into something far worse than what occured in the early 90's or the 1970's . My thoughts and prayers are with all Thais, that this situation does not grow further out of hand that and new elections can be set up within the next few months.

[VegasVic]

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Giving in to blackmail, extortion, threats and demands never works. It only encourages the criminals to push for more, and increase the level of the threats they will utter, to get what they want.

I think Abhisit has played this very well, he has given the red shirts enough rope to hang themselves. They have shown themselves to be no more than thugs, paid to support a criminal who is on the run. Their leader has blood on his hands from deaths in the war against drugs, the Tak Bai massacre etc. What does he want? Why destroy Thailand? For greed? For power?

The sooner he is gone for good the better. Thailand can get on with the process of healing the rifts created by this megalomaniac.

"Giving in to blackmail, extortion, threats and demands never works" Really? It seemed to work out pretty well for the yellow shirts

[xminator]

Yes Abhisit should resign. And give over power to a coalition including all political parties in the parliament. Including the Democrats and Puea Thai. If this is too much for the military and trigger a coup, maybe Thailand is better of showing the real faces of power instead of letting them hide behind Abhisit and Suthep.

Edited April 11, 2010 by xminator

[jdinasia]

I think VegasVic is making a point --- Thaksin is Thai Chinese and his residence was in BKK before he ran away to avoid serving time in jail and the people of Thailand are sick of him!

That was your point right?

BTW --- the PAD committed some crimes, vic, while they stalled the PPP from being able to do a unilateral rewrite of the charter. They never took power. They virtually disappeared after the courts dissolved the PPP (for cause).

Everyone but a few Thaksin die-hards knows that the current government is legit and came into power the way other governments do, through a vote in parliament. People have seen the tapes of the PPP party Executive making payoffs and know the court decision to disband them was valid.

Everyone has seen the reds attacking Thaicom, attacking 1st Regiment, carrying and using weapons and everyone knows that this is NOT the first time (ASEAN summit and Songkran 2009).

The most vital thing to remember in this mess is that PPP could have dissolved parliament and called new elections even 1 day before they were disbanded (and remember that tape of the payoffs --- them being disbanded was a forgone conclusion!)

[dcutman]

The result has been gory.

The opinion writer can call it 'gory' if he/she wants, but all the deaths yesterday comprised one third of a daily average for road carnage on any day of the year in Thailand. Oops, sorry, not 'any day of the year' .....road deaths double for New Years and for Songkran. Is the gore any less, when a 5 year old girl and her 2 year old brother have their heads smashed on the pavement by some ignorant drunk driver?

The title of the Editorial is hand-wringing at its best. Sure, no one likes to see people getting injured or killed. However, the Red Shirt leaders have been egging on the authorities for weeks, and the recent fracas is what the Reds have been aiming for. They even stole dead bodies and paraded them on a public stage! After the Red leaders get refreshed from staying at their plush hotels, they'll go back to the Red stages and yell and prance at the manipulated folks who slept on reed mats on dirty sidewalks - to fight for democracy - which any observer knows is a mean ruse. There's no democracy among the Reds. They're a withering minority who are paid to stay in Bkk, and who have leaders who dictate what they should do (note: democracies shouldn't have dictators), .....all in a thinly disguised objective to bring a power hungry rich man - back to power and back to padding his ill-gained fortune.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? ---- I understand that people are allowed to express their views but to say there is no democracy among the reds??? Hmm the current government was it elected by the people for the people? They are a withering minority paid to stay in Bangkok--- ???? I do not think that 70 % of the population is withering... And although yes must aggree that Thaksin is close to the Red Shirts this is not about him this is about the process of government.. All seem to forget that he was outsted BY A MILITARY COUP.. lets look at who has been in control since then???? HMMM

By my calculations there is about .001% of the thai population demonstrating in BKK

As for military coup's there have been 18 of them in the last 70 years. That averages to 1 every 3.5 years.

Everybody is screaming for democracy, but with stats like this I am not sure there is a lot of experience with democracy.