Please Clarify Teacher's Salary In Terms Of Lifestyle

[Eastender]

Hi,

I've read through some posts here which have given ideas of salaries but as it's been so long since I've lived in Thailand, and my circumstances have changed, I would like to know how such a salary translates into lifestyle.

First a little about me to estimate what salary I could get...

I hope to teach secondary school age or older.

I'll be approx. 50 years young when applying - 5 years from now?

I presently have;

A diploma in English Language Studies (recently gained from the British O.U)

Will soon also have a BSc degree in mixed subjects (from the British O.U.)

I also have a TEFL in English and a years experience of teaching English though it may be difficult to verify - was for a small language school in BKK.

I have a (Thai) wife and daughter, we would probably settle in Nakon Sawan.

My thoughts are; on my expected salary (30K TO 35K ????), could we say pay a mortgage, send our daughter to a better than average school, have a car, live a comfortable lifestyle, and the BIGGIE - at the end of all this could we save to fly the three of us to the UK say every two or three years to see family?

My wife could also work and given that she speaks pretty good English could perhaps put this to use as a hotel receptionist or similar? Would it be necessary for her to work to achieve the above lifestyle?

Thanks for any help,

Regards,

Robin

[oldgeezer]

Sorry, but my opinion would be negative. You don't mention having resources to obtain a car, mortgage and schooling for the child. Based solely upon a teachers salary, you could not maintain the lifestyle you indicate would be necessary. A teachers salary will hardly support a single person living in a very moderate apartment.

Unless your wife had a university degree, she would have little chance of working for more than minimum wage, which is 5-6000 baht per month. Moderate schooling would be private schools and these are in the 100,000 baht range per semester.

Of course, all things are possible depending on the lifestyle you would accept. If you expect anything like the situation you would have in the western world you will be sorely disappointed. Even Japanese cars here are 50% more expensive than in the states for example. Cable TV, and high speed internet are comparable in price to that in the western world. Auto insurance is reasonably cheap and street food is also. With the exchange rate as it is, you would have a very difficult time on the budget you outline.

In my opinion, you would need some supplemental income of at least another 30k baht per month, if not more. And a good deal of patience in dealing with your potential employers.

[maewang99]

Good news. Thailand has a new "teachers license" which means that a TEFL or TESOL is not necessary nor is a college degree... in anything. And.... more good news...the new teachers license is merely a small paperchase.... and infinitely so compared to the effort required for teacher training outside of Thailand.

This is going to sound miserable. The new Thai Teachers License opens the door to a wider labor pool.... think about that for a moment. Also what it wouild be like to be a in a situation where folks with teacher training are mixed in with Thai Licensed Teachers in a completely unmanaged environmkent where only "politics" rules.

Edited April 12, 2010 by maewang99

[BlackArtemis]

With an English degree, you might be closer to 40K, depending on availability.

Don't know what the scene is like in Nakon, but I think Abubaan Nakon pay's 30ish.

Tutoring is one of the best ways to make extra money, especially if you teach government students. Simply offer classes of no more than 8 students and charge cheaper than the local "posh" places.

An hour after school and 4hrs on sat put an extra 20k/month in my pocket.

[Scott]

Good news. Thailand has a new "teachers license" which means that a TEFL or TESOL is not necessary nor is a college degree... in anything. And.... more good news...the new teachers license is merely a small paperchase.... and infinitely so compared to the effort required for teacher training outside of Thailand.

This is going to sound miserable. The new Thai Teachers License opens the door to a wider labor pool.... think about that for a moment. Also what it wouild be like to be a in a situation where folks with teacher training are mixed in with Thai Licensed Teachers in a completely unmanaged environmkent where only "politics" rules.

I'm not sure what you are talking about? Could you clarify? My understanding is that the OP could be eligible for waiver of the TL, but not an actual TL. He would have to take the tests to upgrade.

The OP should take a look at the Questions about Qualifications and the Teacher's License thread for more information on this.

As far as the lifestyle questions are concerned, it might be possible, but it will be difficult. It depends on whether you are talking about funding all these things on your salary here, or if you are talking about maintaining them. For example, if you have the initial down payment for a house and a car, you may be able to keep up payments--but it would be difficult. An EP program for your daughter may be available cheaper, but still in the neighborhood of 60,000 baht per year.

When you first arrive, you may find your wages being much less than you expect. It takes time to get established and find the right job for you. A lot of teachers get good jobs, then get screwed over, or get fired, or find out the conditions are not what they expect.

You are limited to the schools in the area of your home and this makes it much, much more difficult.

[jackdawson]

on my expected salary (30K TO 35K ????), could we say pay a mortgage, send our daughter to a better than average school, have a car, live a comfortable lifestyle, and the BIGGIE - at the end of all this could we save to fly the three of us to the UK say every two or three years to see family?

(sorry to burst ur bubble but) No, not even close (even out in the boonies of Nakon Sawan).

U better revert to plan b, bring more money.

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry to say, it's true. A decent EP in the 60K per year range if you can find one. A very crappy first job. Part time evenings and weekends. Limited advancement. A used Honda Dream. A rented house. Maybe see the UK every five years. No pension. Crappy food..... but people are friendly and dress well, if you speak Thai.

[neverdie]

Robin,

I don't want to burst your bubble either, but I don't think you can do what you ask on 35k baht per month. For example, a loan on 1 million baht for a home would cost you around 7500 baht per month. Without even considering the purchase of a car and its eventual replacement, just the running costs (fuel, tyres, servicing) and insurance etc would set you back around 10k per month (as long as you dont drive it much). Private health care for the three of you would cost you 3k upwards per month (depending on the level). Better than average school, won't be an option on 35k. Household running costs including food would be in the order of 15k baht (basic eating). Incidentals etc. The 3 yearly trip home for 3 with limited spending money (assuming you can stay with family) you would need to save 5-6k baht per month.

Perhaps your wife could run a street cart or noodle cart or something and return a better than 8-10k baht per month profit (depending on location)? I only chose this as an option because its a low cost way to set up a business that may give reasonable returns (long hours unfortunately)

[Nio]

What you are trying to do on a teachers salary in impossible

Renting a House

Honda Moped

Local School

That is about it

Thailand has changed so much in the last month

Who knows what Thailand will be like in 5 years?

I cannot even image and planning 5 years away is worthless in my opinion

[Scott]

I think you have now heard from people who are much more realistic than I am. Like I said, you MAY be able to maintain on that salary, but you can't buy things like houses, cars and education on it. Even maintaining it would be difficult and lady luck would have to be on your side--no illnesses, accidents, unforeseen cost and, of course, a not very exciting lifestyle.

Best of luck, but bring loads of money with you.

[Sisaketmike]

Good news. Thailand has a new "teachers license" which means that a TEFL or TESOL is not necessary nor is a college degree... in anything. And.... more good news...the new teachers license is merely a small paperchase.... and infinitely so compared to the effort required for teacher training outside of Thailand.

This is going to sound miserable. The new Thai Teachers License opens the door to a wider labor pool.... think about that for a moment. Also what it wouild be like to be a in a situation where folks with teacher training are mixed in with Thai Licensed Teachers in a completely unmanaged environmkent where only "politics" rules.

Sorry, please could you clarify what you mean with the new "teachers license"? It seems to me that you're trying to make a very bad joke. None of your statements is right.

[Sisaketmike]

What you are trying to do on a teachers salary in impossible

Renting a House

Honda Moped

Local School

That is about it

Thailand has changed so much in the last month

Who knows what Thailand will be like in 5 years?

I cannot even image and planning 5 years away is worthless in my opinion

You might be able to find a job making 40K, but you’ll never be able to buy your own house based on that salary. Even to purchase a car is impossible for many foreigners working here already.

Even in rural areas life isn’t that cheap any more. You want to send your daughter to a good school? Make your own Math…rent a house; buy a cheap car, electricity, water, Internet and much more.

You wouldn’t be able to fly back every two years; the only thing that would work is to come to Thailand with money to buy a car, house or anything else. We’re also three persons living in a poor area, but I don’t know where my salary is going to, I can’t even save 2,000 baht/month. But life is just different here to Europe, let's hope it stays like that.

But who knows if white faces are still welcome in five years.

[TerryLH]

"...but people are friendly and dress well, if you speak Thai."

PB. Whether you speak Thai, or not, affects how people dress?

[PeaceBlondie]

TerryLH, pardon my sentence structure. I should have said, "...Thai people are friendly and dress well. It helps if you speak Thai well."

[Scott]

I will digress, just a little, because there might be a correlation in dress and how well people speak Thai. I've never seen anyone who speaks Thai well wear shorts with a tank top, black socks and sandals!

Now back to the OP's situation!

[Sisaketmike]

"...but people are friendly and dress well, if you speak Thai."

PB. Whether you speak Thai, or not, affects how people dress?

What? People are friendly and dress well, if you speak Thai? Does that mean that people don’t dress well, if you can’t speak Thai?

[aussiebebe]

Judging by what the OP wrote, the reply is consistently 'No, sorry!':

I have a (Thai) wife and daughter, we would probably settle in Nakon Sawan. My thoughts are; on my expected salary (30K TO 35K ????), could we say pay a mortgage, send our daughter to a better than average school, have a car, live a comfortable lifestyle, and the BIGGIE - at the end of all this could we save to fly the three of us to the UK say every two or three years to see family? My wife could also work and given that she speaks pretty good English could perhaps put this to use as a hotel receptionist or similar? Would it be necessary for her to work to achieve the above lifestyle?

If the OP came with cash to buy a home and car, he could live comfortably in the mannar he described, if his wife worked also. It would be useful for the OP to know or be reminded that some things are more expensive in Thailand, notably cars, mortgages, electronics and international airfares, so it's good he asked. It costs far less to fly UK to BK return than vice versa, don't ask me why, check it yourself, there's no way you could save this.

I see you are asking about the UK, get a currency convertor and look at the difference between www.toyota.co.th and www.toyota.co.uk to give you some idea.

The principle issue is choosing a place to buy and then finding work opportunities nearby. I live in Bangkok, think how big the education market is here, and it's almost impossible long-term. I have many neighbours and friends, both Thai and foreign, (not all teachers, so this advice applies equally to other lines of work), who end up in the 'mortgage trap' and have to live away from home during the week after choosing a home and then changing jobs. And that's Bangkok, dread to think about the countryside. Remember with teaching, 1 year contracts are the norm, there is little security.

[BlackArtemis]

I and my wife were making 80k/month in CM and we returned to the US for further education. (I for a 2nd BS in ED and her, a MS in ECE).

We were not going to be able to afford the life style we wanted, so we are toughing it out here while all of you get to play Songkran >_<

[stevo2]

Well looks like I'm going to be on my own here. I live in the Northeast and get by very well on less than 30k.

Admittedly I live a Thai style life. I have a Thai style house, which was built 4 years ago for 350k.

My daughter goes to the best Government school in the province which is free.Her school are just starting an EP which we will not be applying for,why would we? I'm a native speaker and she gets all the help she needs at home.

I run an 8 year old Nissan Frontier.

I have free health care at the Provincial Hospital because I pay 450 baht a month Social Security. Why go and spend money at the private hospital when the Doctors are the same ones at the Government hopital,they moonlight there on their days off.

I eat mostly Thai food. Do not go out and spend 500 baht a time on KFC/Pizza etc that often. I,my wife and my daughter eat good,tasty and healthy food for around 200baht a day. Must admit I eat western food aswell but ususally make it myself. We do eat out every now and then. Korean BBQ or maybe at the Issan chicken and somtam place.

I like a drink too. 3 large bottles of beer for 100 baht in the local village shop.

We also save money for emergencies.

I now work locally and took a 50% paycut to come back and live with my family on a full time basis. To me being near the family is more important than bank balance. I did have a very good job in Bangkok, in a top 5 in the country school, and gave it up as I was not seeing my daughter grow up.

I should also point out that I have been in Thailand continuously for 12 years now and fully intend to make here my home for ever,although I am planning my first ever trip back to England in October this year.

If the cost of living is as high as some of the posters have mentioned then how the hel_l do Thai teachers manage to do it?

I know some people just can't adapt to the Thai way of life but if you did, or even met it half way, then I would say 35k is more than enough.

[BlackArtemis]

Well looks like I'm going to be on my own here. I live in the Northeast and get by very well on less than 30k.

Admittedly I live a Thai style life. I have a Thai style house, which was built 4 years ago for 350k.

My daughter goes to the best Government school in the province which is free.Her school are just starting an EP which we will not be applying for,why would we? I'm a native speaker and she gets all the help she needs at home.

I run an 8 year old Nissan Frontier.

I have free health care at the Provincial Hospital because I pay 450 baht a month Social Security. Why go and spend money at the private hospital when the Doctors are the same ones at the Government hopital,they moonlight there on their days off.

I eat mostly Thai food. Do not go out and spend 500 baht a time on KFC/Pizza etc that often. I,my wife and my daughter eat good,tasty and healthy food for around 200baht a day. Must admit I eat western food aswell but ususally make it myself. We do eat out every now and then. Korean BBQ or maybe at the Issan chicken and somtam place.

I like a drink too. 3 large bottles of beer for 100 baht in the local village shop.

We also save money for emergencies.

I now work locally and took a 50% paycut to come back and live with my family on a full time basis. To me being near the family is more important than bank balance. I did have a very good job in Bangkok, in a top 5 in the country school, and gave it up as I was not seeing my daughter grow up.

I should also point out that I have been in Thailand continuously for 12 years now and fully intend to make here my home for ever,although I am planning my first ever trip back to England in October this year.

If the cost of living is as high as some of the posters have mentioned then how the hel_l do Thai teachers manage to do it?

I know some people just can't adapt to the Thai way of life but if you did, or even met it half way, then I would say 35k is more than enough.

I think the main problem is food and partying. Like you said 500B is easy to blow on a single meal and a night out can go from 500-3000B depending on a lot of circumstances...

We made about 80K/month

12k rent

2k for electric and water (we ran an after school tutor program, so we had multiple rooms with aircons on)

5k for internet and cell phones. (I talked a lot to my parents who do not work computers well... Skype would have saved a bundle)

8k for car

2-3k on gas

That's 30k even before food & entertainment

the killer was probably food, we ate out and didn't care how much we spent. Since we were done tutoring at 7pm we didn't want to cook for two people after working all day. So I would say that out of 30 dinners a month 20 would be local places, 5-6 would be muu gata and the rest would be upscale places were 1k for the two of us was normal. Plus we went out for lunch too since the school food was horrid.

We went to the movies a lot

Had our dog groomed weekly

and went to the bars 2-3x a month, more if a band we liked was coming to Chiang Mai

Let my wife go to spas regularly every few months she would spend about 10k on beauty and skin care products

and we still put 15-20k a month away.

We could reel in the life style a bit, but why? We live in the US now and plan to return, why should we have to tone down our lives to be able to make it.

I would like to come back and have kids by then. I would like to put away $1k USD/monthly since I will not have any social security, IRA, 401K etc. I want my kids to go to an international school, no substitute.

Now unlike a lot of other people on the forum, I don't think you are a failure or stupid or farang kii nok if you are surviving on X amount of Baht. If you and your family are happy, then it's right for you, and each person is going to have a different magical number set for themselves. So it's really a matter of trying to understand what other people see as a good life, rather than having a pissing match over how much you make.

[aussiebebe]

the killer was probably food

Yes, I agree totally. That's the main reason I saw 35k as a difficult budget, with a family it's easy to spend 10-15k per month just on food if you're not careful.

That was a really interesting post by Stevo2

I run an 8 year old Nissan Frontier.

I have free health care at the Provincial Hospital because I pay 450 baht a month Social Security. Why go and spend money at the private hospital when the Doctors are the same ones at the Government hopital,they moonlight there on their days off.

I eat mostly Thai food. Do not go out and spend 500 baht a time on KFC/Pizza etc that often. I,my wife and my daughter eat good,tasty and healthy food for around 200baht a day.

That's the way to do things properly, particularly the food. I just feel it's sugar-coating things.

Firstly, the OP was asking about long-term and it's easy to keep an older vehicle running, but this isn't self-sustaining as you're not mentioning the inevitable replacement looming on the horizon!

Secondly, the social security is great value, I've used it for out-patient visits in Bangkok many times and I agree about the Doctors being the same, but I have other private insurance too, I wouldn't rely on SS, and I doubt my premiums are higher because I'm in the capital. Long-term, you'll have dental costs, accidents, etc. Just insurance premiums cost me 6k per month; Health policy for family, car insurance, and home insurance, that doesn't even really prepare for paying the excess in the event of an accident.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's very difficult to make a 'one-size-fits-all' recommendation, but given the OP's specific situation I would say it would be very hard to achieve decent health insurance, educational goals, and financial security and other goals for a family on the budget you are discussing, even if you were living in the countryside- in the city, no way. Your wife would need to work and probably you would need to be trying to find other means of income like a cottage business.

I'm not saying that Thais don't do it all the time- but they don't generally have what I would call decent health insurance or financial security; good education in the public sector would be a matter of luck and motivation.

[bow]

You can live reasonably well on a family income of 30.000 if you "go native"; change to a Thai lifestyle.

You will probably be able to buy a buy a tiny Thai style house (in your wife's name) and an old second hand pick-up truck after one year of working and saving.

You can put your child in a decent school.

Some people adjust easily to a Thai lifestyle, other people can't.

[stevo2]

It's very difficult to make a 'one-size-fits-all' recommendation, but given the OP's specific situation I would say it would be very hard to achieve decent health insurance, educational goals, and financial security and other goals for a family on the budget you are discussing, even if you were living in the countryside- in the city, no way. Your wife would need to work and probably you would need to be trying to find other means of income like a cottage business.

I'm not saying that Thais don't do it all the time- but they don't generally have what I would call decent health insurance or financial security; good education in the public sector would be a matter of luck and motivation.

You can live reasonably well on a family income of 30.000 if you "go native"; change to a Thai lifestyle.

You will probably be able to buy a buy a tiny Thai style house (in your wife's name) and an old second hand pick-up truck after one year of working and saving.

You can put your child in a decent school.

Some people adjust easily to a Thai lifestyle, other people can't.

Maybe I should have given more details of my situation.

I am 40 years old. I am working towards financial security as we speak. The house that I live in is paid for as is the 7 rai of land that it sits on. My Father in law works that land as a rice farmer,his choice. It is not a "tiny Thai style house" either. It is a two storey house,floor space is around 100sq metres(x2) with a total of 4 bedrooms. I'm not that bothered about whose name it is in either. If something did go wrong in the future then I would let Thai law work things out, as a final resort.

I have already stated that I am in no need for Health Insurance. I spent 2 weeks in the local government hospital 2 years ago. I had 2 operations and great care from all Doctors and nurses. I have no complaints about the service there. I used to have insurance via a private school that I used to work for and the hospital I use wasn't even on their list of hospitals that I could use.

I would have had to use the private hospital which to be honest,not only my assessment, is alot lower in standards than the Government one.

I also mentioned that I run an 8 year old pick up. This was by no means"old" when I bought it. I still run it now as there is nothing wrong with it so why buy new.

Now about the education side of things. I think we are all agreed that the standard of education is not that great in Thailand. International schools are perhaps a better option but are vastly over priced. Also international schools are only available in certain areas. The nearest one to my home is about 250kms away. There is a "Private" school in town but................ well lets just say that I don't really trust the grades they are dishing out. A friend's daughter spent her primary school years there getting top grades. When it came to the time to test for entry into the Government secondary school she couldn't get into the top 600.

I know a few Thais that have graduated from places like Chula and Thammasat and know nothing about anything outside of the subject they graduated in. For example I've seen English teachers using a calculator to add up 60 and 20 to come to 80 when doing the students grades. I also know that some of my old students who couldn't even write 5 things about themselves in English somehow graduated from high school and are now studying for a degree at the local Rajabat.

I think whatever school we decide to send our kids to there will always be a need for home tutoring aswell. There probably aren't many kids of western fathers, or even mothers for that matter, out there that don't speak better English than their teachers by the time they are 6 years old. That only comes from learning at home in general conversation.

To sum things up we are all different. If everyone was the same as me then the little,quiet country village that I live in would be full of westerners. Imagine that.... aagggh.

Been said before that it is impossible to find the "right way" to live in Thailand.

Good Luck to everyone out there. Maybe I will organise a "Class of 2010" reunion at my house in 2050 and we can all discuss how we "made it"

[bow]

stevo2, please, I answered Eastenders original question.

[otherstuff1957]

Another thing that the OP should consider is any resources that his wife's family might have. I would assume that she is from Nakhon Sawan, but is that in the town (Amphur Muang) or out in the boonies? Does her family own any land or have any local influence? If so, they might be able to help him find a job, buy a car, etc... Plus they might have some land that they could build a small house on.

30K/month would not give you a comfortable lifestyle, even upcountry, but if there are other family resources, then it might just be doable.

When people ask me how much money they will need to be comfortable I will usually say that it is different for every person. However, a good rule of thumb is to take the income you need to be comfortable back in Faragland and divide it by 3, as most things (aside from cars, education, western food & plane tickets home) are about 1/3 the cost of what they are back home.

So, if the OP is comfortable living on the equivalent of 90 or 100K baht per month back in the UK, they will probably be equally comfortable here.

Edited April 16, 2010 by otherstuff1957

[PeaceBlondie]

So, if the OP is comfortable living on the equivalent of 90 or 100K baht per month back in the UK, they will probably be equally comfortable here.

If he rents his Thai home, sends the sprog to a Thai school, eats only Thai food, never returns to the UK again, never gets sick, etc.

[stevo2]

stevo2, please, I answered Eastenders original question.

Bow

Please too. No offence meant. I am trying to give an opinion too. In my first post I did say that I thought I would be on my own in my thoughts. I think we are thinking exactly the same way only with some different figures.

The OP asked a question. This is a forum and I have enjoyed reading the different points of view.

I've seen other forums advise cost of living in issan from 15000 to 200000. Figures that make me laugh may seem sensible to others.

I have no problem with a good old fashioned debate.

I like this forum as there are alot of guys with something to say and most seem to have first had experience. The fact that we can't agree on some things is what keeps it going.

To others that have posted on this thread..........I think we have provided the OP with food for thought which, at the end of the day, is why we log on to TV.

As I said before I try to embrace Thai culture whilst still trying to keep a bit of a Brit about me. Off for a Steak and kidney pie and somtam

[paully]

My thoughts are; on my expected salary (30K TO 35K ????), could we say pay a mortgage, send our daughter to a better than average school, have a car, live a comfortable lifestyle, and the BIGGIE - at the end of all this could we save to fly the three of us to the UK say every two or three years to see family?

I have to agree with most of the other posters - 'comfortable lifestyle', 'pay a mortgage', fly the three of us to the UK say every two or three years' - sorry but no way. You could survive on your likely earnings, but no more than that. The return air fares alone for three of you at today's prices would cost you 3 -3.5 months' wages. I wouldn't count on air fares falling significantly in the future.

[bow]

I realize now that my answer to Eastenders question is easily misunderstood.

I tried to say that he has to change his plans. He can move to Thailand and live here with his family, but only if he changes his plans.