Dad Can't Speak Thai, The Kids Can't Speak English

[wallhigh]

I've know a few Westerners to take their kids 'home' for a 'decent education' - dude don't spoil your little one and let him run your life.

i think for those of us who care about our kids future and education, we would return home for a decent

one, as you put it.

the only 2 reasons i could see someone staying and sending their kids to a school on the Laotian border

is lack of funds to repatriate, or as another poster so eloquently put it, they care more about emptying

the sack here cheaply, than their kids education.

dont get any knickers in a knot, just imo...

[Nignoy]

Situations like the title are terribly common, imagine a bright 15 year old thai boy ,born and raised in england whose english father forbade anything thai in the house, who could not speak a word of thai,I met this young fella in Farnborough hants in 1990recognised him as a thai by the amulett he was wearing ,I greeted him in thai, he said he did not understand, and explained his situation, because at that time our flat was also a common meeting place for thai,s and lao in the surrounding areas I invited him to pop up and meet some of our thai friends,so he learned to speak and read and write thai and in later years visited thailand and got to meet his other half of the family, He works for british airways as a steward,so maybe some of you have even met him

[WOOHOO]

She will get a lot of Thai from the extended family (and Lao-Issaan unfortunately)

You dont like Lao and Isaan? What happened mate, too many sick buffalo to pay for?

Or MIL got a case of the green eyed monster and wanted a mansion built? I think its

very fortunate there is Lao and Isaan, they are noble and gracious people....

Perhaps the poster meant that it was an issue, as it was a third language thrown in to the melting pot, instead of just two to learn, and that he doesn't have any issues with where his wife's from in general. Just a thought.

[Livinginexile]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

WOW BOO,

Now thats a sweeping statement,maybe its as simple as he cant grasp the thai language due to his age.You have based that statement on no fact whatsoever.

OK but does that give him an excuse not to teach his children English?

[473geo]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

WOW BOO,

Now thats a sweeping statement,maybe its as simple as he cant grasp the thai language due to his age.You have based that statement on no fact whatsoever.

OK but does that give him an excuse not to teach his children English?

Maybe they quite simply do not want to learn.........surprised?.........don't be

[wolf5370]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

WOW BOO,

Now thats a sweeping statement,maybe its as simple as he cant grasp the thai language due to his age.You have based that statement on no fact whatsoever.

OK but does that give him an excuse not to teach his children English?

Maybe they quite simply do not want to learn.........surprised?.........don't be

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If they were (and I doubt this as already stated) his kids from birth, then they just learn as part of growing up and aware - they don't make a conscious decision about whether they want to learn to eat, wash, brush their teeth or speak the language that their parent's are using around them.

[473geo]

OK but does that give him an excuse not to teach his children English?

Maybe they quite simply do not want to learn.........surprised?.........don't be

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If they were (and I doubt this as already stated) his kids from birth, then they just learn as part of growing up and aware - they don't make a conscious decision about whether they want to learn to eat, wash, brush their teeth or speak the language that their parent's are using around them.

If the older of the kids do not think it is 'cool' to speak English and do not, speaking Thai to the mother without any difficulty, and the mother uses Thai to communicate all the time, how would that effect the younger siblings?.......does that begin to make just a little sense?

[thaibeachlovers]

My wife are now the guardians of a boy who is almost 7. We have only had him since last summer. His mother died and his dad is not interested. I speak Thai, but I have a long ways to go. All day long there are things I want to say to him, explain, teach, I really want to be a real dad. But I continually find there are words missing and there are so many moments that pass where I don't say a thing. My wife is good and she translates a lot for me, but I desperately want to improve my Thai and I can't think of a greater motivation to do so. I am working on it all the time.

But in the meantime I am really impressed with the English he has picked up and there times now when we can communicate in English, and that is very encouraging. I am glad he is a sharp kid, it makes this whole thing a lot easier.

I can' imagine what would be going through the mind of the guy mentioned in the OP. I don't envy him one bit, he must feel like a visitor in his own home.

He is still young enough to learn english. If possible, find an english program school where he can study in english as well. My son who is nearly 7 speaks both thai and english though his thai is stronger. If he doesn't know a word in english he asks my wife to translate. He studies in the thai program, by the way.

As for the OP, it seems the father spends hardly any time with the two younger kids, whom I assume are his biological kids. There's now way they can't speak english if he raised them! He doesn't speak thai so that's not the reason.

i doubt op is biological poppa. or he would take interest in speaking to said kids.

i bet its one of those marriages made over a beer!

Got the rose coloured glasses on have we?

The world is full of fathers who have no interest in their children. I've paid enough tax to support them that I should know!

And if we're being so sarky about him having "a marriage made over a glass of beer" what about the thousands of Thai men who abandoned their wives and children, or is it different for them because we must have "low expectations" of Thai husbands ( for those that don't understand- that's sarcasm ).

[thaibeachlovers]

very obvious why the gentleman is here - for the bars and bar-girls.

how can you expect someone like that to care for anything apart from

their own sexual gratification?

after many years here, i never talk or interact to the style of person

you describe, its all too predictable:

1. dont have money to live in england, hate the weather, hate the government

2. have ex wife who is a witch

3. young girls in thailand, very cheap 1000 baht per pop

4. met in cowboy/nana/whatever and fell in love

5. she have 1 or 2 kids back up north from 1 or 2 previous thai guys who dont

take responsibility

6. married, had to pay huge sin-sod, had to pay for the buffalo to go to the vet,

had to build new mansion for MIL

7. picked up a few words of bar-thai, wofe speaks a few words of bar-tinglish

8. live happily every after in the land of smiles, until the $$ runs out

I have a small daughter, and for sure will be returning to melbourne

very soon so she can begin pre-school, and get a good education.

I am very happy you will bugger off from Thailand

btw

if you think all farangs are like that,you are very sad indeed.

Ditto.

Perhaps he can tell us how he feels in a few years time after his divorce, when the wife took him for everything he's got, and he has to pay child support, so he can't even come back to LOS for the "cheap girls".

( for the terminally humourless- that's "tongue in cheek". Heaven forbid that I'd be making a judgement about someone of whom I know nothing! )

[needforspeed]

OK but does that give him an excuse not to teach his children English?

Maybe they quite simply do not want to learn.........surprised?.........don't be

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If they were (and I doubt this as already stated) his kids from birth, then they just learn as part of growing up and aware - they don't make a conscious decision about whether they want to learn to eat, wash, brush their teeth or speak the language that their parent's are using around them.

Why do you think that he is much around them, maybe going to a bar at 14:00 and come back home late when the kids are at sleep, not much of a communication there.

Edited April 15, 2010 by needforspeed

[Colonel_Mustard]

I might be being rather dumb here but something doesn't quite sound right with this story.

As the father speaks no Thai, the parents presumably only speak English at home and normally the kids should develop some English skills just from being around them.

It just seems rather strange that they can't speak a word of English despite being exposed to the language since birth for 8 years (in the case of his eldest child).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I might be being rather dumb here but something doesn't quite sound right with this story.

As the father speaks no Thai, the parents presumably only speak English at home and normally the kids should develop some English skills just from being around them.

It just seems rather strange that they can't speak a word of English despite being exposed to the language since birth for 8 years (in the case of his eldest child).

Indeed.

If anything the problem is kids picking up too much language.

[t.s]

I never mentioned him talking thai, he is English, why would he communicate with his kids in Thai when he can't even talk to them in English. Hardly a sweeping statement.

if you lack the ability to understand how your speculation regarding a loveless marriage and the fellow being trapped is another of your vapid generalizations I truly pity you and suggest perhaps you are too bigoted to see where you err. You are perhaps as bad as the op in your own way.

That said, with my own experience with my child as a reference, the only way that the op's scenario is possible is if the father has had almost no contact with his offspring. My three year old learned English almost literally by osmosis, though I have personally raised her and read to her nightly.

While she speaks both English and thai, she definitely prefers English.

[aussiebebe]

I think the OP's situation (meeting an expat in Bangkok) arose partially out of the differences expats face when meeting another expat or foreigner. It's hard when you're trying to live in one culture, Thai, and then someone appears to want to drag to out. It's difficult to deal with it.

I also think that the man the OP met has undoubtedly struggled with the burden of raising his wife's son, the eldest, and this has had a profound affect on the language spoken at home. It's quite selfless to look after a step-kid, yet it's a thank-less task and it ensures a certain Thai dynamic to the home life which affects the amount of English spoken.

[Boo]

t.s post Today, 2010-04-16 07:47:57

(Boo @ 2010-04-14 19:45:48) *

I never mentioned him talking thai, he is English, why would he communicate with his kids in Thai when he can't even talk to them in English. Hardly a sweeping statement.

if you lack the ability to understand how your speculation regarding a loveless marriage and the fellow being trapped is another of your vapid generalizations I truly pity you and suggest perhaps you are too bigoted to see where you err. You are perhaps as bad as the op in your own way.

The op clearly stated that the man in question spoke no thai & his (he said they were his bio kids) spoke no English so clearly he was not communicating with them in either language but for those who are unable to comprehend my meaning in the quoted post above, why would this man bother to communicate in a language he doesn't speak (Thai) when he clearly doesn't bother to speak with the kids in the language he does (English).

As for the rest of your flame, feel better now. ?

[F1fanatic]

"If the older of the kids do not think it is 'cool' to speak English and do not, speaking Thai to the mother without any difficulty, and the mother uses Thai to communicate all the time, how would that effect the younger siblings?.......does that begin to make just a little sense?"

473geo - the point made in your post would explain a lot.

The younger kids would be far more inclined to copy their older, cooler brother than their farang father who, it would appear, wasn't trying too hard. To make the situation worse, the father would be seen by the children's peers as an 'outsider', and children are v sensitive to this.

Edited April 16, 2010 by F1fanatic

[SantiSuk]

She will get a lot of Thai from the extended family (and Lao-Issaan unfortunately)

You dont like Lao and Isaan? What happened mate, too many sick buffalo to pay for?

Or MIL got a case of the green eyed monster and wanted a mansion built? I think its

very fortunate there is Lao and Isaan, they are noble and gracious people....

Nothing against Lao or Issaan - just an added complication for the little 'un. Sorry for impression given!

[billd766]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

I have to agree with Boo on this topic. It is one thing to take on a complete Thai family who ALREADY speaks only Thai and try to teach them English, but it's entirely different to start a NEW family and not have some MUTUAL form of communication. Either the man should learn Thai or the children should learn English. Preferably, the children should earn English because at some point in their life it WILL come in handy for finding jobs as adults. As already noted, children learn far quicker than adults and they are little sponges when it comes to language skills. The little girl of the Thai family I support is a perfect mimic. I say a sentence in English and she can parrot it back to me perfectly. She may not understand what I've said, but she certainly mimics the words perfectly. It is only a short step from that to actually understanding.

It is too bad the man/father of the little children in the OP's topic is so pig headed. He is doing his family a terrible disservice.

I KNOW that Thais can learn English very quickly. I've known many young Thai women who could barely speak a word of English 5 years ago and now they are perfectly fluent in many subtle ways.

Learning Thai is quite difficult for us older blokes whose memory is not as good as it once was and neither is our hearing.

I am 65 and I have known my wife for 17 years and we have been married for the last 10.

Our son is 5 and he can speak a little English.

I have been coming to Thailand for those 17 years but have actually only lived here since 2001 and I have worked off shore fo half of that.

I can speak some Thai but not much and to quote IanForbes

Learning Thai is quite difficult for us older blokes whose memory is not as good as it once was and neither is our hearing.

I am not shouting but that is what a lot of people do when someone appears not to listen but in reality they can't hear so well.

I have about 80% hearing in my left ear and 70% in the right ear. Often I have to turn to look at someone who is speaking to me from behind.

As Thai is a tonal language I find it very difficult to tell the difference between a lot of words and if I ask my wife a question and pronounce it wrongly she gets confused as I do.

Also what I try to do with my son is to speak to him in English about something I know in Thai and then say it again in Thai and he often corrects me.

I try to learn Thai using "Thai for beginners" by Benjawan Poomsan Becker but without feedback from a Thai speaker to correct my mistakes what I mean to say may not actually be what I said.

There is a pinned thread somewhere about becoming a Thai citizen and as I remember 1 point is that you must have at least 5 years continuous visa in Thailand and have paid taxes for those 5 years which means 5 years of work permits. Any break in the chain you must start again.

Edited April 17, 2010 by billd766

[bifftastic]

Hmmm, ok and it's because he's English that there should be low expectations of him?

I've only spent four weeks with my girlfriends two lovely daughters who are 9 and 6.

Does that mean you have only been with her for four weeks? If that's the case, those children shouldn't be calling you Pappa, in my opinion. You seem like a nice bloke who's doing right by them, but being a father figure to kids you have known for four weeks is not good, lets face the facts there is a chance things could go belly up any time. Where does that leave the kids? Without a Pappa, AGAIN!

No, we've been together for almost a year. We wanted to be as sure as possible that we had something that was going to last, well as sure as anyone can be, before involving the kids. I take this very seriously and have not entered into it lightly at all. I fully understand, and share, the concerns you have expressed. The kids, until October last year, lived with her sister, now their Mother has joined them and I visit when I can.

As with any relationship there is always a chance for it to go belly up, and we are both aware of the difficulties but with love, communication and hard work I think we'll be OK.

[tijnebijn]

I think the OP's situation (meeting an expat in Bangkok) arose partially out of the differences expats face when meeting another expat or foreigner. It's hard when you're trying to live in one culture, Thai, and then someone appears to want to drag to out. It's difficult to deal with it.

I also think that the man the OP met has undoubtedly struggled with the burden of raising his wife's son, the eldest, and this has had a profound affect on the language spoken at home. It's quite selfless to look after a step-kid, yet it's a thank-less task and it ensures a certain Thai dynamic to the home life which affects the amount of English spoken.

I second that .

My eldest ( stepson ) I take care for eleven years , my youngest ( my own ) is 7 years of age , we do mostly speak Thai ,

although I do speak English to both of them which they understand well , although English is not my (or our) first language .

I read in this thread about the bilingual do's and dont's . Although I can understand the effect of it , I think its not very practical to speak only in your native language to them , I find it very hard . ( but maybe I should have )

I think it's not very supportive for us ' foreigners ' to ever learn the Thai language effectively and correctly , so I've

got double feelings with this , perhaps I should have spoken in my native language which my youngest understand barely , oldest

none .

About the Thai citizenship , I've came to the knowledge none are given after the 2006 coup , so some are waiting and waiting

Don't think its worth the trouble at all .

One thing , perhaps in the future , as Thailand develops out of the third world , rules may get easier along with it , for us to stay , there is no need for protectionism as life is as expensive as home , could come pretty quick imo , but probably in our next lifetime .

Edited April 17, 2010 by tijnebijn

[PatHIverson]

Wow, what a predicament!

[ilovemangos]

my wifes first kid prior to me is 13 and does not speak much english, i have tried to teach him but he just wont learn.

now our kid age-2 can understand english but speaks thai, and when my wife uses english ie-sit down, dont touch that bad boy etc and its a problem as i think my son understands english as punishment thus he tends to get worried when i speak (i dont speak thai)

i know i should learn thai as well and am working on it., just want my kids to know both..

[rosaline]

This sounds funny.

But this is very difficult to get along with practically. No verbal communication between a father and his children, even when they live together?

[473geo]

This sounds funny.

But this is very difficult to get along with practically. No verbal communication between a father and his children, even when they live together?

Think victorian times, think children and nanny, there are previous circumstances where children had only limited contact with their mother, let alone the father. I agree, in current times this is unusual, but circumstances in thailand can be unusual. Why do posters think blame needs to be apportioned? I doubt that this scenario was somehow by design.

[WOOHOO]

I have about 80% hearing in my left ear and 70% in the right ear. Often I have to turn to look at someone who is speaking to me from behind.

I no this is harsh and some people won't like it, but.... perhaps five years ago wasn't such a good time to have a kid then. At your age, you will not be able to be a good, all round parent, as far as I'm concerned. The stuff you can do, you may do very well, but not being able to be the complete package, I think is slightly selfish to say the least.

Hmmm, ok and it's because he's English that there should be low expectations of him?

I've only spent four weeks with my girlfriends two lovely daughters who are 9 and 6.

Does that mean you have only been with her for four weeks? If that's the case, those children shouldn't be calling you Pappa, in my opinion. You seem like a nice bloke who's doing right by them, but being a father figure to kids you have known for four weeks is not good, lets face the facts there is a chance things could go belly up any time. Where does that leave the kids? Without a Pappa, AGAIN!

No, we've been together for almost a year. We wanted to be as sure as possible that we had something that was going to last, well as sure as anyone can be, before involving the kids. I take this very seriously and have not entered into it lightly at all. I fully understand, and share, the concerns you have expressed. The kids, until October last year, lived with her sister, now their Mother has joined them and I visit when I can.

As with any relationship there is always a chance for it to go belly up, and we are both aware of the difficulties but with love, communication and hard work I think we'll be OK.

In which case I beg your pardon. Good luck to you.

[WOOHOO]

Why do posters think blame needs to be apportioned? I doubt that this scenario was somehow by design.

When kids are brought in to the world, a 'design' as you put it, is a must. If you want to fall through life with no responsibilities, good luck to you, just DON"T HAVE CHILDREN.

[eurasianthai]

Comonsense approach from the start. He talked to the children in English and she in Thai. He's been lazy and left the kids to his wife.

Well, I have been talking to my son in French only since the day he was born, and my wife and I speak in English together, but he just not could speak fluently any other language than Thai up to the time he went to school.

You see, usually the father works and he's back home in the evening when the kid sleeps, or is about to sleep.

And the rest of the time he speaks Thai with his mum.

Not laziness, just a fact of life.

But now, after one year in an English school, from 2.5 years old to 3.5 years old and about one year in the French school, my wife wants to learn French in order to be able to understand what he tells me...

Edited April 18, 2010 by eurasianthai

[473geo]

Why do posters think blame needs to be apportioned? I doubt that this scenario was somehow by design.

When kids are brought in to the world, a 'design' as you put it, is a must. If you want to fall through life with no responsibilities, good luck to you, just DON"T HAVE CHILDREN.

Already have 2 lovely well balanced children, thank you, who are enjoying life to the full, keen to learn, but most of the credit goes to their wonderful mother. A mother who I did not design - she came ready made. For my part I am rewarded by the unconditional love displayed by my children, naturally, also not by design.......

You on the other hand think deaf people should not be allowed children.......sad.....who designed you?

Edited April 18, 2010 by 473geo

[WOOHOO]

Why do posters think blame needs to be apportioned? I doubt that this scenario was somehow by design.

When kids are brought in to the world, a 'design' as you put it, is a must. If you want to fall through life with no responsibilities, good luck to you, just DON"T HAVE CHILDREN.

Already have 2 lovely well balanced children, thank you, who are enjoying life to the full, keen to learn, but most of the credit goes to their wonderful mother. A mother who I did not design - she came ready made. For my part I am rewarded by the unconditional love displayed by my children, naturally, also not by design.......

You on the other hand think deaf people should not be allowed children.......sad.....who designed you?

Not sure what the deaf comment is in refference to? I don't recall ever saying that. I do however have issues with people with dissabilities, which will probably be passed on to their children, having kids, if that's not selfish I don't know what is, but I don't recall ever mentioning that either though.

Anyway my critisizm wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at your defence of the person being described by the OP. You immplied it was just an accident he ended up being a shit father, just one of those things, shit happens eh!!

[gotglue]

just sounds like another wanke_r that's moved here from the uk because he hates it (fair play) but wants to drag all the <deleted> of the uk here.....plenty of them about....and he hates kids, so....just another wanke_r