Rajprasong A Home From Home To Many Red-Shirts

[anotherpeter]

In my opinion, the worst move the government has made over the past few weeks that really escalated tensions and heigtened the mistrust of the government to extreme levels is the CENSORSHIP - closing of tv stations, internet sites, etc.

As foreigners, we read the stories about these blockages but I don't think we really get the full impact as most of us don't read or watch Thai language media sources. Censorship should NEVER be tolerated in ANY society that aspires to be a nation respectful of basic human rights. Can economic success emanate from a society that censors? Certainly. Is that the direction we want to see Thailand head? I personally hope not. I could NEVER EVER live in a country like China.

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

[TallForeigner]

@anotherpeter

Sometimes I wished my world were as simple as yours...

[blackman]

@blackman

You don't seem to be a very believable strategist or adviser if you are talking about things that are so far removed from the real world; any serious strategist would go on site and do some research and exploration on the actual situation on the ground first before even thinking about strategies. Have you been down here lately and seen with your own eyes what is going on?

And by the way I am not defending the reds - I am defending Thai people, human beings and humanity. My defense for human beings doesn't take any side.

The worst thing that can happen in this world is if an army has to go against their own people and kills masses of innocent human beings - be it directly with their weapons or indirectly by the panic and stampede they will create by their actions. This is never ever acceptable and justifiable. My fantasy is by far not exhausted yet when I think of non violent means to find an acceptable solution to the crisis without more bloodshed.

you are not understanding my point

its not especially that they are reds that i dislike

i dislike their tactics, i generally dislike bullying and intimidation of any kind, from anyone

if yellows, or blues or whites were doing the same thing i would dislike that too

i do not need to go to see it with my own eyes, it disgusts me enough from afar

if its ok with you for anyone regardless of shirt colour to chase a middle aged woman down the stret with sharpened sticks that disagrees with your opinion and it does not bother you, thats up to you, in a democrasy you have the right to think that way and i respect it

however i think the action of punishing those who disagree with you is called dictatorship not democrasy.

as to me, i have my own morals and principles which i try to adhere to

i dance to the beat of my own drum, not yours, not reds, not yellows not anyones.

my stragegies advocate making life uncomfortable for the people there, to encourage them to move on, in the hope of avoiding further bloodshed

i do not need to go there to see wether they would work and make their lives less comfortable, sleep deprived, generally paranoid and less able to fight the authorities and maybe avoid being shot at at all

these are well trodden military strategies used to weaken opponents resolve

they will work, they have been used successfully before, its that simple

maybe its just that you want me to come down and join on one of your guided tours of the area with you as a bodyguard that you offered to Tv'ers on another thread?

is that one fantasy too far?

ADDED

as to a seemingly violent leaning, maybe we should look at our respective positions:

your avatar is of a muscular white man in a fighting stance ready to attack an opponent

my avatar is from a cotton floor mop found in stores all over Thailand

which one does the TV reader feel intimidated the most by?

you offer to be a bodyguard to tour the area where the reds are rallying

now, it does beg the question that if the reds are as non violent as you claim, why would you need to offer your services as a bodyguard ?

i offer non violent strategies to help move them on without getting shot by the authorities

so lets ask the dear readers on TV:

who between us seems to be the least provocative of the two protaganists ?

shall we get Jing to run a poll?

Edited April 18, 2010 by blackman

[jucel]

In my opinion, the worst move the government has made over the past few weeks that really escalated tensions and heigtened the mistrust of the government to extreme levels is the CENSORSHIP - closing of tv stations, internet sites, etc.

As foreigners, we read the stories about these blockages but I don't think we really get the full impact as most of us don't read or watch Thai language media sources. Censorship should NEVER be tolerated in ANY society that aspires to be a nation respectful of basic human rights. Can economic success emanate from a society that censors? Certainly. Is that the direction we want to see Thailand head? I personally hope not. I could NEVER EVER live in a country like China.

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

plus over 500 websites are shut down each day!!

[TallForeigner]

@blackman

I respect your opinion of making life difficult for protesters. However please don't come up again with another catalog if detailed strategies on how to do it down here. If you really want to remain believable and come up with strategies then you need to get down here and explore the real situation first - otherwise your proposals are not based on reality and nothing more than fantasies.

And again, I really believe that we absolutely don't need any military strategy before other means are not yet exhausted.

And if you want to get here I would be glad to give you a guided tour if that is what you need... and for the bodyguard, well, I have got the necessary training required to fill that position...

[FreedomDude]

In my opinion, the worst move the government has made over the past few weeks that really escalated tensions and heigtened the mistrust of the government to extreme levels is the CENSORSHIP - closing of tv stations, internet sites, etc.

As foreigners, we read the stories about these blockages but I don't think we really get the full impact as most of us don't read or watch Thai language media sources. Censorship should NEVER be tolerated in ANY society that aspires to be a nation respectful of basic human rights. Can economic success emanate from a society that censors? Certainly. Is that the direction we want to see Thailand head? I personally hope not. I could NEVER EVER live in a country like China.

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

The government shouldn't be censoring ANY news. People can decide for themselves what to believe and what not to believe. A government respectful of human rights respects a person's right to judge truth, check sources, etc. There is now not a SINGLE television station in the Thai language that is not pro-govt. There's not even a station a reasonable person could judge as NEUTRAL. I admit I am relying on my wife on this last point, though.

Also, we have a station in the US, FOX News, that broadcasts lies and doctored video everyday, and they haven't been shut down. And they shouldn't be shut down! They dig their own grave.

I also disagree with your assertion that Red TV has incited violence. Inciting violence in my opinion would have to actually involve encouraging people to go and cause bodily harm to people who are not attacking you.

Edited April 18, 2010 by FreedomDude

[blackman]

@blackman

I respect your opinion of making life difficult for protesters. However please don't come up again with another catalog if detailed strategies on how to do it down here. If you really want to remain believable and come up with strategies then you need to get down here and explore the real situation first - otherwise your proposals are not based on reality and nothing more than fantasies.

And again, I really believe that we absolutely don't need any military strategy before other means are not yet exhausted.

And if you want to get here I would be glad to give you a guided tour if that is what you need... and for the bodyguard, well, I have got the necessary training required to fill that position...

thanks for your advise and your request to cease & desist but i will continue to post just as i please

its an open forum and no-one made you mother goose to tell me or anyone else what to say

for the record, your fighting man avatar, your arrogant responses, your bodyguard offers and you boasting of having the neccesary training tells me what i suspected all along.

i know that we would not get along and that you will feel right at home with the reds at red central

Peace

[anotherpeter]

In my opinion, the worst move the government has made over the past few weeks that really escalated tensions and heigtened the mistrust of the government to extreme levels is the CENSORSHIP - closing of tv stations, internet sites, etc.

As foreigners, we read the stories about these blockages but I don't think we really get the full impact as most of us don't read or watch Thai language media sources. Censorship should NEVER be tolerated in ANY society that aspires to be a nation respectful of basic human rights. Can economic success emanate from a society that censors? Certainly. Is that the direction we want to see Thailand head? I personally hope not. I could NEVER EVER live in a country like China.

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

The government shouldn't be censoring ANY news. People can decide for themselves what to believe and what not to believe. A government respectful of human rights respects a person's right to judge truth, check sources, etc. There is now not a SINGLE television station in the Thai language that is not pro-govt. There's not even a station a reasonable person could judge as NEUTRAL. I admit I am relying on my wife on this last point, though.

Also, we have a station in the US, FOX News, that broadcasts lies and doctored video everyday, and they haven't been shut down. And they shouldn't be shut down! They dig their own grave.

I also disagree with your assertion that Red TV has incited violence. Inciting violence in my opinion would have to actually involve encouraging people to go and cause bodily harm to people who are not attacking you.

"Bring empty bottles and we can fill them up with petrol and burn Bangkok to the ground" is not inciting violence?

I'm sure there are plenty of similar threats to innocent people.

[TallForeigner]

@blackman

You just revealed your true level of sophistication that confirms my earlier assumption that you should go back to your video games.

[bangkokrick]

Great post! And nice photos as well.

If only more people had your attitude...

Yes like the Red shirt leaders. Then they would take these people out of harms way.

Cheers, Rick

[blackman]

@blackman

You just revealed your true level of sophistication that confirms my earlier assumption that you should go back to your video games.

seems someone high up is listening after all.....is it true or is it diversionary tactics?

maybe they will spot a tall white foreigner bristling with muscles, dressed like Rambo, seemingly being a Ronin qualified bodyguard escorting groups of out of town farangs mingling with the reds, in defiance of the order by the CRES and invoked under SOE

Troops to be deployed on highrise buildings around Rajprasong

BANGKOK: -- Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, the spokesman of the Emergency Operations Command, announced Sunday that troops will be secretly stationed on highrise buildings around the Rajprasong Intersection.

He said the secret surveillance will be carried out for the sake of the protesters' safety as intelligence agencies had learnt that protesters could also be targetted in next terrorist strikes to cause misunderstanding and turmoil.

He said the EOC would also deploy troops to set up checkpoints around Rajprasong to discourage people from joining the rally for their own safety.

THE NATION

[FreedomDude]

In my opinion, the worst move the government has made over the past few weeks that really escalated tensions and heigtened the mistrust of the government to extreme levels is the CENSORSHIP - closing of tv stations, internet sites, etc.

As foreigners, we read the stories about these blockages but I don't think we really get the full impact as most of us don't read or watch Thai language media sources. Censorship should NEVER be tolerated in ANY society that aspires to be a nation respectful of basic human rights. Can economic success emanate from a society that censors? Certainly. Is that the direction we want to see Thailand head? I personally hope not. I could NEVER EVER live in a country like China.

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

The government shouldn't be censoring ANY news. People can decide for themselves what to believe and what not to believe. A government respectful of human rights respects a person's right to judge truth, check sources, etc. There is now not a SINGLE television station in the Thai language that is not pro-govt. There's not even a station a reasonable person could judge as NEUTRAL. I admit I am relying on my wife on this last point, though.

Also, we have a station in the US, FOX News, that broadcasts lies and doctored video everyday, and they haven't been shut down. And they shouldn't be shut down! They dig their own grave.

I also disagree with your assertion that Red TV has incited violence. Inciting violence in my opinion would have to actually involve encouraging people to go and cause bodily harm to people who are not attacking you.

"Bring empty bottles and we can fill them up with petrol and burn Bangkok to the ground" is not inciting violence?

I'm sure there are plenty of similar threats to innocent people.

Is that the official stance of the producers of Red TV? Did they continue to broadcast it over and over? No, and all of their viewers apparently figured out that this was a ridiculous statement made in the middle of a live broadcast. I haven't seen anybody around Bangkok attempting to burn anything down. Did Red TV keep rebroadcasting this statement? No. If the other stations rebroadcast this clip during their newscasts, should they be shut down as well?

[blackman]

@blackman

You just revealed your true level of sophistication that confirms my earlier assumption that you should go back to your video games.

every time i post on TV, i get myself my very own cyber stalker for the day

someone who follows me around for a while, hanging on my every word and typically replying with a one line quip that only they think is funny

you are one of many others before have included the celebrated Britmaveric with over 20,000 posts that took the time to visit, clockworkorange, londonthai, tonywebster, jerrytheyoung and many other passionate and informative posters

all brought something interesting to the table to discuss and to debate with a respectful fervour

however you have been one of the least interesting examples of social intercourse i have had this week

nevertheless i thank you for the dimunitive neurone exercise, i did not want to get too excited today, it is Sunday after all

meantime you have a happy Red afternoon milling around in Red Central eating Red specials

keep looking out the apartment/house (you could not make your mind up in which model you lived in your first post) windows and snapping those government snipers with your Nikon

paranoid yet?

the day is but young.....

i am off to watch the GP now

go on Lewis!

peace to all

Edited April 18, 2010 by blackman

[FreedomDude]

@blackman

You just revealed your true level of sophistication that confirms my earlier assumption that you should go back to your video games.

every time i post on TV, i get myself my very own cyber stalker for the day

someone who follows me around for a while, hanging on my every word and typically replying with a one line quip that only they think is funny

you are one of many others before have included the celebrated Britmaveric with over 20,000 posts that took the time to visit, clockworkorange, londonthai, tonywebster, jerrytheyoung and many other passionate and informative posters

all brought something interesting to the table to discuss and to debate with a respectful fervour

however you have been one of the least interesting examples of social intercourse i have had this week

nevertheless i thank you for the dimunitive neurone exercise, i did not want to get too excited today, it is Sunday after all

meantime you have a happy Red afternoon milling around in Red Central eating Red specials

keep looking out the apartment/house (you could not make your mind up in which model you lived in your first post) windows and snapping those government snipers with your Nikon

paranoid yet?

the day is but young.....

i am off to watch the GP now

go on Lewis!

peace to all

If you're not enjoying that conversation, blackman, we'd welcome your comments on the other conversation going on here about censorship.

[KireB]

Is that the official stance of the producers of Red TV? Did they continue to broadcast it over and over? No, and all of their viewers apparently figured out that this was a ridiculous statement made in the middle of a live broadcast. I haven't seen anybody around Bangkok attempting to burn anything down. Did Red TV keep rebroadcasting this statement? No. If the other stations rebroadcast this clip during their newscasts, should they be shut down as well?

Please tell my mother-inlaw that this a ridiculous statement, because she really believes it would benefit the cause!

The Red PR machine is provoking violence, is vulgur and absolutely dangerous. Just talk and listen to the people up country!

[rabo]

That may have been a bad move by the government, but you need to put it in perspective.

The government did not censor all news. They didn't censor 'free' international press.

They shut down one TV station that was airing lies (doctored video/audio) and inciting violence.

A TV station like that would have been shut down in any western country within days.

The government shouldn't be censoring ANY news. People can decide for themselves what to believe and what not to believe. A government respectful of human rights respects a person's right to judge truth, check sources, etc. There is now not a SINGLE television station in the Thai language that is not pro-govt. There's not even a station a reasonable person could judge as NEUTRAL. I admit I am relying on my wife on this last point, though.

Also, we have a station in the US, FOX News, that broadcasts lies and doctored video everyday, and they haven't been shut down. And they shouldn't be shut down! They dig their own grave.

I also disagree with your assertion that Red TV has incited violence. Inciting violence in my opinion would have to actually involve encouraging people to go and cause bodily harm to people who are not attacking you.

"Bring empty bottles and we can fill them up with petrol and burn Bangkok to the ground" is not inciting violence?

I'm sure there are plenty of similar threats to innocent people.

Is that the official stance of the producers of Red TV? Did they continue to broadcast it over and over? No, and all of their viewers apparently figured out that this was a ridiculous statement made in the middle of a live broadcast. I haven't seen anybody around Bangkok attempting to burn anything down. Did Red TV keep rebroadcasting this statement? No. If the other stations rebroadcast this clip during their newscasts, should they be shut down as well?

Watching too much TV?

[FreedomDude]

Is that the official stance of the producers of Red TV? Did they continue to broadcast it over and over? No, and all of their viewers apparently figured out that this was a ridiculous statement made in the middle of a live broadcast. I haven't seen anybody around Bangkok attempting to burn anything down. Did Red TV keep rebroadcasting this statement? No. If the other stations rebroadcast this clip during their newscasts, should they be shut down as well?

Please tell my mother-inlaw that this a ridiculous statement, because she really believes it would benefit the cause!

The Red PR machine is provoking violence, is vulgur and absolutely dangerous. Just talk and listen to the people up country!

Maybe her ears and mind would open up a bit to the other side of the debate if the government stopped trying to control her sources of information.

[dutchweller]

I dont understand why the government allows these people to bring in supplies to the site.

Why dont they just Lock down the entire Protest zone..

Dont allow anything in only allow departures.

this includes

Food

Water

Toilets

PA systems

Power

Fuel

Generators..etc...

After a few days these people will become Hungry and drift away...

It is basically what they have done to the Hotels around the protest sites.

they are unable to get Supplies in including food and gas.

So even if they did have customers they cannot provide for them.

This crap has gone on too long

I know at least 30 staff at a hotel who have now lost there income permanently because the hotel is unable to keep them employed on the daily rate they were on.

GET these RED Parasites OUT OF THE CBD

Make them set up in Lumpini park.

That was offered to them for a protest site but they refused because they INTENDED to cause as much harm to BKK/Thailand as they possibly can.

Edited April 18, 2010 by dutchweller

[FreedomDude]

dutchweller-

Because setting up such checkpoints would necessitate the soldiers going very close to the actual protest site, and that would lead to violence very quickly.

[dutchweller]

Not nessicerally

IF the road blocks were set up and were manned by NON watermelons

Pop a few tanks with water cannons and some concrete barricades down

then take a page from the reds and have a frount line of Monks should do the trick...

(Side note real Monks not the ones that the Reds used ie Monks who after hours don Tactical Assault cloths and arm themselves to the neck with Knives auto weapons and Home made bombs)

They could resist any intrusion and the only Violence would come from the returning reds ...

OHHH wait I see your point

The farmers and black clad Scumbags are actually not passive at all...

[TheOldWolf]

Not nessicerally

IF the road blocks were set up and were manned by NON watermelons

Pop a few tanks with water cannons and some concrete barricades down

then take a page from the reds and have a frount line of Monks should do the trick...

(Side note real Monks not the ones that the Reds used ie Monks who after hours don Tactical Assault cloths and arm themselves to the neck with Knives auto weapons and Home made bombs)

They could resist any intrusion and the only Violence would come from the returning reds ...

OHHH wait I see your point

The farmers and black clad Scumbags are actually not passive at all...

The big problem is that the red mob would brake inte every store within the site and ruin them from food, drinks, cloth, whatever

[FreedomDude]

Not nessicerally

IF the road blocks were set up and were manned by NON watermelons

Pop a few tanks with water cannons and some concrete barricades down

then take a page from the reds and have a frount line of Monks should do the trick...

(Side note real Monks not the ones that the Reds used ie Monks who after hours don Tactical Assault cloths and arm themselves to the neck with Knives auto weapons and Home made bombs)

They could resist any intrusion and the only Violence would come from the returning reds ...

OHHH wait I see your point

The farmers and black clad Scumbags are actually not passive at all...

The big problem is that the red mob would brake inte every store within the site and ruin them from food, drinks, cloth, whatever

And you base that assumption on their history of looting? When did the redshirts ever loot?

Ahhhh, because they're poor. Ok. Gotcha.

[TheOldWolf]

Not nessicerally

IF the road blocks were set up and were manned by NON watermelons

Pop a few tanks with water cannons and some concrete barricades down

then take a page from the reds and have a frount line of Monks should do the trick...

(Side note real Monks not the ones that the Reds used ie Monks who after hours don Tactical Assault cloths and arm themselves to the neck with Knives auto weapons and Home made bombs)

They could resist any intrusion and the only Violence would come from the returning reds ...

OHHH wait I see your point

The farmers and black clad Scumbags are actually not passive at all...

The big problem is that the red mob would brake inte every store within the site and ruin them from food, drinks, cloth, whatever

And you base that assumption on their history of looting? When did the redshirts ever loot?

Ahhhh, because they're poor. Ok. Gotcha.

Your a dreamer dude! If people don´t get any food, any water and there are food and drinks behind the windows they will loot. Their leaders will tell them to do so.

[monkfish]

They want to move next week to a new home.

[asiawatcher]

Just curious ..

What kid of souvernirs / red stuff are they selling down there?

What are they charging for these items?

It's actually a constantly growing selection of stuff for kids you can find down there. Also for kids (but not for kids only) I have seen: plastic clappers in different sizes and forms (mostly in the form of hearts and feet), horns and similar noise making stuff in different shapes and sizes, shirts, t-shirts, sweatshirts, vests, jackets, caps, hats, scarves, headbands, wristbands and other clothing items in red or mostly in red and with various political propaganda on it, slippers with the faces of Khun Abhisit and Khun Suthep and weapons (so you can step your naked feet onto these faces and onto army weapons), coffee and teamugs with Dr. Thaksin's and other red hero's photos and political propaganda, all kind of framed photos of the red heroes including political propaganda and lots of other similar stuff. As far as I have seen this stuff is really cheap but I haven't bought any of it yet so I cannot give you an exact price list.

Sadly the reason behind women and children in the Line Up is to try to prevent attacks. This is the sinister implication of those who purport to be demonstrating for changes. The stage thugs have no thought for collateral damage.

[yoshiwara]

Not nessicerally

IF the road blocks were set up and were manned by NON watermelons

Pop a few tanks with water cannons and some concrete barricades down

then take a page from the reds and have a frount line of Monks should do the trick...

(Side note real Monks not the ones that the Reds used ie Monks who after hours don Tactical Assault cloths and arm themselves to the neck with Knives auto weapons and Home made bombs)

They could resist any intrusion and the only Violence would come from the returning reds ...

OHHH wait I see your point

The farmers and black clad Scumbags are actually not passive at all...

The big problem is that the red mob would brake inte every store within the site and ruin them from food, drinks, cloth, whatever

And you base that assumption on their history of looting? When did the redshirts ever loot?

Ahhhh, because they're poor. Ok. Gotcha.

How about weapons?

Dude.

[way2muchcoffee]

plus over 500 websites are shut down each day!!

List them please. Yesterday's closures would be acceptable.