Top Army, Navy Units Readied For Red-Shirts Dispersal

[danc]

@ blackman

I just want to say that I think you seem quite sweet when I read you all your battle plans, like a little toddler almost. When I was younger, I was fortunate enough to grow up in the countryside and we all used to play for hours in the woods, with pretend army gear and little pop guns - sometimes right until it got dark. One summer, our Mums even gave us a tent and let us camp out - it was like our HQ and we covered our faces with mud and and made raids out from here, stalking each other, using torches and creeping around - as they say, truly Halycon days...

Thanks for making me reminisce and I do hope that this can go a on little longer, so as that you too can carry on playing with such gusto!

Bang bang!!

Edited April 19, 2010 by danc

[anotherpeter]

It would solve nothing for the government as they need to hang on for the military reshuffle- that is what it is all about really- lose the army and they lose the game

It would solve nothing for the country as it would just show that the next election results can be claimed to be illegal and the next colored shirt group protests until that gov't is forced out.. you really don't understand the long term effects here do you?

You're both right.

Both the army reshuffle is important and stopping mob rule is important.

[stevotoo]

Yes- and i don't think the long term effects are something that can be predicted or solved- this story will run beyond a crackdown an election and everything else

[RussellHantz]

Abhisit the stubborn mule needs to dissolve parliament before this gets nasty.

[rabo]

Is there anyone in Thailand now now who was here in May 1992 when Suchinda was ousted ?

I remember two things about that time.

One was that opinions in Bangkok on the "riots" changed dramatically for the average working Thais.

Part of that was due to the (then new) cellphones. I remember a Thai friend, whose brother was part of the police auxilary, who was very anti-protestors at the time. His opinion was changed mainly due to what he heard over his cellphone and the police radio. Thais were saying things like,"No it's not the protestors who are causing the problems, it's the police who are shooting at the protestors. Come down here and see for yourself whats happening".

No correlation with the events now is implied. It's just that in 1992 it was the middle class, cellphones, and sattelite television that changed the Thai public's opinion.

And the second thing I remember was that meeting broadcast on Thai television between Suchinda, Prem, and his Majesty. But forum rules make it very clear that I can't talk about that subject, so I won't.

Yes, I was here. I remember going down to Ratchadaemnon and counting all the bullet holes.

There were thousands of wounded admitted to hospitals and only a handful of bodies. There was almost a complete black out, TV stations went off the air, newspapers were censored, the Bangkok Post printed papers full of blank empty column space rather than re-edit. There were many wild rumors about what was coming next, but I won't post them here. Some are true.

On (I think) the 4th day the TV suddenly came on and there was a view of the two opposing generals Suchinda and Prem crawling on the floor and bowing as they received the scolding of their lives, pretty much don't ever do that again, and that was it.

Rumors of where the bodies disappeared to swirled for days. The authorizes got permission to visit the military base along Phahonyothin Road only to find a large fresh excavation project. When asked what it was the military explained they were constructing a large swimming pool. For two days prior to that, I saw a steady stream of helicopters flying into and out of that base. I lived on soi Silom at the time under the flight path.

But this time the tables are turned. The egotistical self serving PM (then Suchinda) is trying to return from overseas. Mr. T has a long dirty track record of controlling the media. Abhisit is a young, educated western thinking leader who knows the game plan is to cause unrest and make it look like 1992 to unseat the government. Thankfully there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement. Abhisit knows the more visible events are, the better for the government.

It is almost always the dark force that wants to turn out the lights and hide their activities. Although it has received little media attention, the attempt to blow up the main power line pylons feeding Bangkok last Saturday is one of the critical data points in understanding what is going on. Explosions were heard in the area late Saturday but the damage was not discovered until Monday. 35 kg of plastic explosives were used. It was not for show.

Whoever prepared to blow those pylons late Saturday is the party that started the shooting Saturday and wants to create chaos, and they don't give a hoot about life.

Edited April 19, 2010 by rabo

[blackman]

@ blackman

I just want to say that I think you seem quite sweet when I read you all your battle plans, like a little toddler almost. When I was younger, I was fortunate enough to grow up in the countryside and we all used to play for hours in the woods, with pretend army gear and little pop guns - sometimes right until it got dark. One summer, our Mums even gave us a tent and let us camp out - it was like our HQ and we covered our faces with mud and and made raids out from here, stalking each other, using torches and creeping around - as they say, truly Halycon days...

Thanks for making me reminisce and I do hope that this can go a on little longer, so as that you too can carry on playing with such gusto!

Bang bang!!

new day, new stalker.......

[selftaopath]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

I continue making the mistake of thinking logically. Here in LACK of Sanctions (LOS) this brings much confusion as I observe Thai ways. ????? I'm really wanting to distance myself from this "logical way of thinking" but it's not easy. However when I finally fumble blindly ahead w/out any vision of consequences I'm assured I'll really have assimilated into this Thai way.

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit the stubborn mule needs to dissolve parliament before this gets nasty.

Nasty? 24 dead and 800 wounded isn't nasty?

The reds wanted violence at the very start. Everything they do is aimed at starting violence.

The reds should start negotiating before this gets nasty.

[stevotoo]

Unlike 1992, almost everyone now has digital cameras and vdo cameras so there is no hiding it anymore- it would not be possible to cover their tracks in the same way. Dialogues continue in ways they can no longer control and the whole world watches

[blackman]

Abhisit the stubborn mule needs to dissolve parliament before this gets nasty.

too late, its nasty already, please keep up Russell

where have you been, a Samoa reunion?

i read your personal statement prior to joining the show:

Russell can’t wait to get in the competition and show “these morons how it’s done” and he “plans to play the game dirtier, smarter and more cunning than anyone can imagine.”

sound about right then.....

Edited April 19, 2010 by blackman

[danc]

Not stalking you, at all, blackman.

But like all of us, you should really step back stop times and read what you write and understand that others read it in passing and can be either amused or fluxommed or alarmed - I hate to say it but you do seem to be getting a kick out of all of this and that is why people pick you up on it.

It is not the colour of the politics but the colour of the the relish that means you get more responses! That with that fact, that you are apparently ex-CIA and a security expert of 15 years, so you lay yourself open to the odd little tickle in the ribs!

Bang bang!

[PB7]

having read thro' these posts i now remember why i so rarely read the forums here. A bunch of foreigners with nothing better to do than bitch at eachother.

[hextac]

Or just dissolve parliament.

And when the next group come out in their thousands, we'll just dissolve the next parliament too. And so-on and so-on.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Who set the precedent?

[tonywebster]

Not stalking you, at all, blackman.

But like all of us, you should really step back stop times and read what you write and understand that others read it in passing and can be either amused or fluxommed or alarmed - I hate to say it but you do seem to be getting a kick out of all of this and that is why people pick you up on it.

It is not the colour of the politics but the colour of the the relish that means you get more responses! That with that fact, that you are apparently ex-CIA and a security expert of 15 years, so you lay yourself open to the odd little tickle in the ribs!

Bang bang!

Maybe he should use lazer guns,

pew pew pew is better than bang bang.

[danc]

Not stalking you, at all, blackman.

But like all of us, you should really step back stop times and read what you write and understand that others read it in passing and can be either amused or fluxommed or alarmed - I hate to say it but you do seem to be getting a kick out of all of this and that is why people pick you up on it.

It is not the colour of the politics but the colour of the the relish that means you get more responses! That with that fact, that you are apparently ex-CIA and a security expert of 15 years, so you lay yourself open to the odd little tickle in the ribs!

Bang bang!

Maybe he should use lazer guns,

pew pew pew is better than bang bang.

Just trying to lighten the mood a little!

[animatic]

Abhisit the stubborn mule needs to dissolve parliament before this gets nasty.

It's been nasty for years, long before Abhisit became PM....

Where have you been?

Dissolving the house under coercion is the slippery slope tipping farther over,

it can't be allowed for the good of Thailand's future.

[dhrobertson]

I've been here for about 12 years with a family and home in Nakhon Phanom and work as a consulting engineer in Bangkok and Phuket. Over the past week I have spoken to many Thais in our village and in Bangkok and Phuket. All walks of life from engineers and lawyers to farm workers, taxi drivers, construction workers and bar staff.

I am very depressed.

Sad fact is that there are no easy solutions here. The problems are so ingrained in society that it will take two generations to make much difference.

On the face of it, there is democracy here in the shape of one man, one vote. Sadly, this is so distorted by feudalism and corruption that it is now a sham. It seems Thais typically vote as directed or in the expectation that they will receive some immediate pecuniary gain. This drives corruption but how else can they vote when no parties publish a manifesto?

It seems that many ordinary Thais have no problem with Abhisit or Korn, EXCEPT that they are surrounded by others whom they believe to be corrupt and CRITICALLY, fail to weed them out and thus are thus seen to be not even handed.

Real concern is education which, although now free, is widely acknowledged to be extremly poor.

Thaksin's populist policies are widely acknowledged to be failures:-

The 30TBT health care was not funded and thus turned out to be useless.

The village funds were abused. Funds were used to pay gambling debts and local interest rates were usurious.

It seems that the only way forward is to proceed step wise:-

1) Ensure voting is secure and confidential

2) Use the full force of the law to punish politicians found to be corrupt. And do it quickly.

3) Take action to improve education standards. Teach morality and free thinking. Improve vocational training standards

4) Rely on the ballot box only to force a change in government

I spoke to a highly intelligent Thai woman just recently. She is lawyer and young mother (and married to an Australian - Heh, no-ones perfect!) and expects to become a barrister. I asked her if she was offered money to do something unethical would she take it. Without hesitation she replied "if it would help my family, yes". I was just so depressed to hear that even young intelligent Thais see nothing wrong with corruption.

As I said at the start, I see no simple way forward. In the long run, better education and eradication of corruption is required but that will take a couple of generations.

In the short term I hope Abhist shows his integrity and cleans out his own stable before calling elections. If he does this, and publishes a sensible manifesto, he might, just might win a real mandate.

[anotherpeter]

Or just dissolve parliament.

And when the next group come out in their thousands, we'll just dissolve the next parliament too. And so-on and so-on.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Who set the precedent?

And the red supporters continue to complain about it, and still do it themselves.

Now both groups are even. They both ruined the thai economy.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

[tonywebster]

Not stalking you, at all, blackman.

But like all of us, you should really step back stop times and read what you write and understand that others read it in passing and can be either amused or fluxommed or alarmed - I hate to say it but you do seem to be getting a kick out of all of this and that is why people pick you up on it.

It is not the colour of the politics but the colour of the the relish that means you get more responses! That with that fact, that you are apparently ex-CIA and a security expert of 15 years, so you lay yourself open to the odd little tickle in the ribs!

Bang bang!

Maybe he should use lazer guns,

pew pew pew is better than bang bang.

Just trying to lighten the mood a little!

Pointless exercise on here that, too many people are too entrenched in their hatred to smile about anything, just reading their posts should tell you that the humour is seriously lacking.

But if it helps I found it funny

[FreedomDude]

Yes, I was here. I remember going down to Ratchadaemnon and counting all the bullet holes.

There were thousands of wounded admitted to hospitals and only a handful of bodies. There was almost a complete black out, TV stations went off the air, newspapers were censored, the Bangkok Post printed papers full of blank empty column space rather than re-edit. There were many wild rumors about what was coming next, but I won't post them here. Some are true.

On (I think) the 4th day the TV suddenly came on and there was a view of the two opposing generals Suchinda and Prem crawling on the floor and bowing as they received the scolding of their lives, pretty much don't ever do that again, and that was it.

Rumors of where the bodies disappeared to swirled for days. The authorizes got permission to visit the military base along Phahonyothin Road only to find a large fresh excavation project. When asked what it was the military explained they were constructing a large swimming pool. For two days prior to that, I saw a steady stream of helicopters flying into and out of that base. I lived on soi Silom at the time under the flight path.

But this time the tables are turned. The egotistical self serving PM (then Suchinda) is trying to return from overseas. Mr. T has a long dirty track record of controlling the media. Abhisit is a young, educated western thinking leader who knows the game plan is to cause unrest and make it look like 1992 to unseat the government. Thankfully there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement. Abhisit knows the more visible events are, the better for the government.

It is almost always the dark force that wants to turn out the lights and hide their activities. Although it has received little media attention, the attempt to blow up the main power line pylons feeding Bangkok last Saturday is one of the critical data points in understanding what is going on. Explosions were heard in the area late Saturday but the damage was not discovered until Monday. 35 kg of plastic explosives were used. It was not for show.

Whoever prepared to blow those pylons late Saturday is the party that started the shooting Saturday and wants to create chaos, and they don't give a hoot about life.

Interesting recollection on life here during that period of time. Thanks for posting it!

Even though the media censorship might be less of a problem now compared to then, surely you are INCORRECT in your assertion that "there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement". 1000s of websites have been shut down! THere is NOTHING available on Thai television other than pro-govt point-of-view channels. It's the continuing censorship that really drives home the mistrust that in turn ratchets up the Hatred even more than if they allowed the channels and websites to continue.

Edited April 19, 2010 by FreedomDude

[Thormaturge]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

Thailand is different. Here we send in a "special operations" TV crew to film the exercise but since it is all carried out when the most popular Thai soap opera is on they hope nobody will be watching.

[hextac]

Or just dissolve parliament.

And when the next group come out in their thousands, we'll just dissolve the next parliament too. And so-on and so-on.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Who set the precedent?

And the red supporters continue to complain about it, and still do it themselves.

Now both groups are even. They both ruined the thai economy.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Stopping international trade and tourism is a little more serious than preventing pretentious wnakers from buying overpriced, branded coffee and handbags though.

[ballpoint]

...It seems that many ordinary Thais have no problem with Abhisit or Korn, EXCEPT that they are surrounded by others whom they believe to be corrupt and CRITICALLY, fail to weed them out and thus are thus seen to be not even handed...

What do they expect when they continually vote for the same corrupt bunch of Newins, Chavalits, Chalerms, Banharns et al? Honestly, these people complaining about corruption, and their position in society, have had nine chances since 1988 to do something about it by voting for fresh politicians, yet what do they do? They take the short term money and choose the same same but definitely not different everytime. Do they never wonder that if they had a few good men at the top, with a team that they had full control over, rather than a fractious coalition with every party competing for its share of the loot, then they and the country would be better off?

[ThailandLovr]

Abhisit the stubborn mule needs to dissolve parliament before this gets nasty.

What a moronic statement. As if stubbornness has anything to do with Abhisit's plans and actions. (hint: there is just a bit more to it than that)

Edited April 19, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[drmap]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

thats true Crossy, if you want to surprise and kill them outright

if you don't, then its good strategy to instill a little fear in the enemy

let them know and see whats coming and give some time for those who don't have the stomach for a fight to leave

i believe i advocated this in my post yesterday

looks like someone in authority was reading it...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Rajprasong-H...ts-t357069.html #13

this article gets to the root of the problem in trying to remove these protesters

the authorities have allowed then to get comfortable, they are well fed and watered

they have bathing facilities, toilets and entertainment.

if it came to a fight they are well rested and ready for it

the authorities should effect some measures to change that situation before making any efforts to move them

a little sleep deprevation would go a long way towards success

so lets bring in some huge mobile disco units, surround the site with them safe behind army/police lines and serande them with some very sad Thai songs that refer to dead relatives, lost loves, long dead favourite buffaloes, loss of sons, daughters, motorbikes etc

lets set the tone for a massive loss, lets get people thinking about a loss/death of a relative.

lets get them thinking about their own mortality and how their death might affect their family

lets get some huge projectors and use it to project images onto nearby buildings, of their beloved leader and his HiSo family enjoying the high life on his private planes, private yachts and reflecting his extravagent living in expensive hotels.

there is no need for sound, just add subtitles that tell them how Thaksin is spending the money he stole from them and how he is travelling the world in luxury whilst they sleep on the streets.

you could do comparison shots, him-you, him-you

a general mood should be created of anticipation of an attack by the troops

one that will come in the early hours

paranoia should be introduced at every opportunity

the minds of the combatants will do the rest

bring in some big troop carrying helicopters in the daytime and very loudly and very visibly drop heavily armed troops on to the top of buildings surrounding the rally area

have them dramatically drop down ropes to the roofs SAS style

these guys do not need to actaully be military, they could even be amateur mountaineers, no need for them to have weapons

this can be documented by officials before hand

its just to introduce a little paranoia to the crowd

start and encourage rumours amongst the crowd that they are surrounded by hundreds of snipers.

let them think that every time they see the glint of the sun on a window its a snipers scope

this can easily be done by officials infiltrating the crowd

Thais love rumours

have a few very visible and highly publicised drive bys of the area by big tanks laden with fully armed troops with very visible weapons like rocket launchers, grenade launchers and maybe even towing some howitzers.

let the reds see whats actually on the move against them

more paranoia

lets have some very visible substantial troop movements by some very heavily armed troops

preferably known to be from the south or the borders with Burma and Cambodia were they are used to dealing with insurgents

have them fly into Don Mueng live on TV

this should be highly publicised and rumours about what they are doing in Bangkok should be circulated to the reds

rumours should circulate that martial law is going to be introduced

rumours should indicate a shoot to kill policy is in place for those who do not obey the armys orders

rumours should tell the reds that they should write letters to their loved ones and family whilst they have a last chance to do so

more paranoia

rumours should circulate that somehow the army has added some kind of powerful sleeping draft to the water supplies

also to the bottled water being supplied to them

also to the food, and that they should treat everything with suspicion now

tell them if they feel sleepy they should report to the medical tent immediately

tell them they should not go to sleep and that it could be dangerous to go to sleep

tell them its the same kind of drug that katoeys use on clients in Pattaya, they will know of many that have died whilst being robbed.

to make sure show news clippings in Thai on the projectors of the deaths

more paranoia, less sleep

at night when things do settle down, the army should safely detonate huge exposive charges in the immediate area

if not explosives then launch huge fireworks every 20 minutes

send off flares to illuminate the area

this will keep them awake and think that the war starting

it will make for less sleep and more paranoia

it may even flush out the ronin warriors who could be taken out by snipers

have some snipers stationed with their spotters with a recording equipped spotting scope

that way when the kill is made it can be seen afterwards by the media to have been on an armed person, not an innocent protestor and therefore a justifiable kill

in the early hours of the morning stealth helicopters could drop capsicum onto the crowd using a crop dusting attachment

fire fighting chanooks could drop thousands of gallons of water onto the stage and take out the electrics and give then a songkran treat too

one could get unidentified bodies from the morgue, dress them in red shirts and leave them in areas near to the rally

they should be in a position where they can easily be found

it should be rumoured that there are reds in the crowd that are with the army and government and that they are picking off the protestors one by one

they should be told to look at your neighbour with suspicion and care

you might be the next victim !

more paranoia.........

what happened to the body beforehand should be well documented and can be proven as false flag bodies later when the reds point fingers at the Army

rumours to promote paranoia and sleep depravation should circulate all the time, maybe that the US has joined the fight, maybe the SAS, the Gurkhas or Mossad

maybe that private contractors from Blackwater have flown into to Thailand from Iraq

maybe a local building should be blown up by the army as a message to the reds

the paranoia value would easily cover rebuilding costs

the red who go home every night and return next day should be made to stay at the rally ground and told that a night attack is coming and they are needed at the site to defend each other

keep them there all the time with false rumours and deprive them of sleep too

if i was in charge these reds would not have more than 10 minutes peace day or night

their heads would be full with black magic, broken buddahs, defeatist thoughts, paranoid ideas and rumours

their imagination would do what the army cannot do at this time

ok, i have to get on now, other points to address, feel free to add to the diversionary ideas i have proposed

remember all should be relatively non violent and should intended to increase paranoia and sleep depravation not to take lives

once they are literally tired out then the army should attempt move them

less sleep=less fight

Or just dissolve parliament.

Excellent standard psy-ops does get the Job done with the least loss of life. See FM on this

[anotherpeter]

And when the next group come out in their thousands, we'll just dissolve the next parliament too. And so-on and so-on.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Who set the precedent?

And the red supporters continue to complain about it, and still do it themselves.

Now both groups are even. They both ruined the thai economy.

The country shouldn't be ruled by minority mobs.

Stopping international trade and tourism is a little more serious than preventing pretentious wnakers from buying overpriced, branded coffee and handbags though.

They have both greatly affected tourism (including the the riots last year).

And this protest is not just preventing pretentious wanke_rs from buying overpriced, branded coffee and handbags.

It's preventing thousands of workers in these shopping centres from getting paid.

It's preventing thousands of smaller shops in the area from opening and which is stopping thousands more workers from getting paid.

It's preventing thousands or workers from earning money in the hotels in the area.

It's stopping street vendors from making money selling things to tourists.

It's stopping all the little shop owners in Pratunam, Platinum and Pantip from making money, affecting thousands more workers.

It's hardly affecting the pretentious wanke_rs. They'll find what they want in other shopping centres.

It's affecting thousands of workers, generally not well paid workers, generally workers living from day to day, generally the workers that the reds say they are representing, from working.

And it will continue to affect them while the tourists stay away.

[tigerbalm]

Or just dissolve parliament.

Which would solve exactly NOTHING... so any other bright ideas?

Umm Errr Have an Election

[hextac]

I'm pretty sure closing airports is more detrimental to trade and tourism than malls.

[stevotoo]

it is all detrimental-- these are symptoms not causes

[anotherpeter]

Or just dissolve parliament.

Which would solve exactly NOTHING... so any other bright ideas?

Umm Errr Have an Election

So the next time 100,000 people come out calling for an election, the next government will call an election too, won't they. And then after that ............