Reminder To Self: Never Bank With Natwest

[schmutzie]

Allow me to get something off my chest:

I have long been muttering to myself to get a lump sum transferred to my Kasikorn account.

Having watched the GBP get decimated recently I noticed a small rise last week and decided

to finally call (since my Natwest Online Banking account does not allow me to do international

transfers) the customer service line.

They informed me that they are not authorised to do SWIFT transfers, but that I would have to

physically go and visit a Natwest branch OR send my local branch a signed letter.

Asking them if they had a fax I could send this to, they answered "unfortunately, we do not have

this facility".

So next day I was off to DHL and paid 1122 THB to send an express letter to my Natwest branch

asking them to please perform a service for which they charge 10 GBP. I'm gobsmacked.

And I have little confidence they won't cock it up along the way - I can imagine the frowning going

on in the back office as they receive this strange "scam letter" from Thailand.

Apparently had I been a Private Banking customer they could have transferred me in a few seconds.

To be a Private Banking customer requires 75000GBP income or 100000GBP liquid assets.

Combine this with a long string of mistakes, cock-ups and being lied to by managers (6 years ago

the manager of my local branch guaranteed me that ALL banks in the UK had a turnaround time of

3 weeks for a new credit card. I went up the road to HSBC who gave me a new account, a credit card

and debit card incl., in about 5 working days).

On a trip to Brazil I spent 25GBP on calls to have them unblock my debit card because the security pre-checks

on their customer service line took 5 minutes to get through.

Natwest is probably the biggest joke in banking I have come across. Their staff at branch level are well-meaning

and on occasion even intelligent. However, they seem to have no power and are left with a back office and IT system that is inept

and run by someone who does not understand how to service people.

You may ask, why don't I just change bank? they gave a generous overdraft a while back and I'm counting on that

when things go tits up. I think I'll want to switch to HSBC soon though.

Sorry, lots of misplaced, pent up rage. But what a joke...

[sarahsbloke]

I'm afraid all the UK banks are much the same.

[CrossBones]

so cant you transfer the amount to your hsbc account via a cheque to yourself and wire it from there via the internet banking?

Natwest are a like a little old ladies savings bank, or like the abbey national etc. Pile of crap!!

[thaimite]

You need to come to the Middle East and try some of their banks to see just how bad a bank can be.

As a plus for Thailand, I am happy to say that of the banks I have used in various countries around the world in the last 10 years (HSBC, Arab Bank, Bangkok Bank), the Kasikorn bank is among the best.

[Asmerom]

I wonder if you included ALL the relevant numbers,details,addresses, postcodes, Kasikorn Swift Code etc.in your fax. If not, you'll probably either hear nothing further or get a letter 10 days later telling you you haven'nt supplied enough information for the transaction to be processed.

Kasikorn do have a useful Form for transferring money from your UK Bank.But you also have to include your own account number and sort code which I hate putting into a letter.I agree, its abysmal service when it can be done same day.It took me ages to learn to grin and bear it.

[tw25rw]

I used to deal with Lloyds and they were at least as infuriating to deal with. A couple of times recently I have had to visit a Lloyds branch and sat there listening to the endless stream of complaints. Not least about the excessive fees.

[tlongdon]

it's the same rule for all UK high street banks, including mine (Nationwide). likewise my French bank (although my Swiss one, no probs)

the new UK internet banks will allow it, so you may need to change.

[Monokuro]

it's the same rule for all UK high street banks, including mine (Nationwide).

Nationwide allow you to do online SWIFT transfers

[chiang mai]

Am I alone in thinking that folks ought to be grateful that banks have implemented half way decent security measures to protect their customers? If a customer hasn't granted their bank approval to perform SWIFT transfers then of course they should be denied, until such time as it can be confirmed that the customer has given their approval and that means original documents and original signature, not fax and not email. If folks sign up to anything less than those things then they may as well agree that Nigerian scammers can simply email their bank and ask that it transfers the contents of the customers bank account to anywhere they wish. Sorry, I know it's frustrating the first time around but when you stop and think about it, it's all in your best interests.

[PhilHarries]

100000GBP liquid assets.

Any particular liquid?

I've used Natwest to transfer money to Thailand and not only do you have to send a signed letter but they phone you to double check it's really you who sent it.

Pain in the proverbial but if you want to experience just how obstructive a bank's procedures can be just try withdrawing a sizeable wedge in cash. No wonder people rob banks, it's the only way they can get their hands on their money.

[fft100]

UK banks are so far behind it is quite scary. AFAIK None of the onshore banks allow you (online) to transfer money internationally. However, acounts in Spain, Germany, France (personal experience of those) do allow you to do international transfers online. Even Natwest private banking (op mentioned this) doesnt allow online transfers internationally.

RBS international does allow international transfers online.

But, it is now refusing (inline with other UK banks) to send credit cards to thailand. I pointed out that had sent me my last one 3 years ago but said that must have been a mistake. Natwest wont send debit cards either. However, banks in the rest of europe dont have any problem with this.... And are they losing money through fraud than the UK banks ? Not that i know of....

[bifftastic]

I'm afraid all the UK banks are much the same.

Mine (Halifax) are ok. aside from being money-grabbing wank*rs, which is a given, seeing as they're a bank.

I can do SWIFT transfers internationally if I wanted to, they're expensive £9.50 at this end and then Bangkok Bank took another 700 baht and it can take 5 or 6 days for some reason, but when I do bill payments or transfer to other UK accounts it takes less than 2 hours and is free. I use Moneybookers.com for transfers to Thailand and on their screen I access my Halifax account directly and the money is instantly transferred, again for free. Then from Moneybookers to Bangkok Bank, takes about 2 days, depending on bank closures, and they take 200 baht. So with regard to online stuff they're pretty good.

[Chaimai]

it's the same rule for all UK high street banks, including mine (Nationwide).

Nationwide allow you to do online SWIFT transfers

They do NOW, but this is a recent service enhancement.

Halifax remain best for this BUT, please bear in mind that none of these are designed for people who reside mainly overseas. Nationwide Flexaccount is specifically NOT for non-residents and you will be steered towards Nationwide International. Halifax specifically FORBID making transfers if you are overseas (you can usually get away with it).

Having spent 30 odd years in the industry I can confirm that most banks are indeed the same. There are minor differences at the margin but, unless you benefit from genuine relationship management, all will have similar practices (and attitudes) - rarely does one shine significantly above another. HSBC is the best bank by some way but you will not share this opinion if you have received cr4p service. Nat West provided me with excellent business service - until they reneged on a GBP 1.4m loan.

I can also confirm, that by the same measure, MOST customers are the same. I understand the need of the OP to get his frustrations off his chest. However, it was also remiss of him not have ensured that he had a robust transfer system in place. Same same UK or Thailand, cover your ar5e - don't wait until you HAVE to transact something to do battle with suppliers systems/rules/service levels etc, etc

[TexasRanger]

I only keep my Natwest because of my mortgage, but I opened an HSBC and I can transfer the money immediately and free to HSBC, then I transfer lump sums online from HSBC to my Kasikorn account, quick easy and no bullshot from Natwest.

[bifftastic]

it's the same rule for all UK high street banks, including mine (Nationwide).

Nationwide allow you to do online SWIFT transfers

They do NOW, but this is a recent service enhancement.

Halifax specifically FORBID making transfers if you are overseas (you can usually get away with it).

Really? Wow I didn't realise that, thanks for the info. When you say you can usually get away with it, do you mean they don't really monitor it and as long as you've logged in correctly it should be ok?

I remember when I did the direct SWIFT transfer the extra security option of then calling me with a 4 digit code which I had to enter to enable the transaction to go through, although seeing as the options included my mobile phone that wouldn't have prevented me doing that from overseas (pop the UK sim card back in, wear the roaming charges and it's done)

When I access my UK bank through moneybookers, the access is actually happening from Germany. I've never had this security option pop up then.

Is there any particular reason, that you're aware, of as to why they forbid this kind of transaction from abroad? I guess the accounts are for UK residents but plenty of people are resident in the UK and still need to do this whilst abroad.

Cheers.

[9a9a]

Hi, I bank with the nationwide, I can usually transfer money on my on-line account to my bangkok account within 24 hours at a fee of £20. No limit on what I transfer as long as the funds are within my account including overdraft facility and I give a reason for the transfer.

[Chaimai]

Is there any particular reason, that you're aware, of as to why they forbid this kind of transaction from abroad? I guess the accounts are for UK residents but plenty of people are resident in the UK and still need to do this whilst abroad.

Cheers.

Sod's Law !

The only reference I can put my hands on is:-

Online service usage

The online service is intended for use by UK residents only. Before viewing the site from abroad you should ensure that you are not breaking any laws or regulations of the country you are in. You must not use the online service to apply for products whilst outside the UK.

I have also seen a message that is worded " You can access your accounts overseas but you MUST not undertake transfers or payments..."

[rreddin]

UK banks are so far behind it is quite scary. AFAIK None of the onshore banks allow you (online) to transfer money internationally. However, acounts in Spain, Germany, France (personal experience of those) do allow you to do international transfers online. Even Natwest private banking (op mentioned this) doesnt allow online transfers internationally.

RBS international does allow international transfers online.

But, it is now refusing (inline with other UK banks) to send credit cards to thailand. I pointed out that had sent me my last one 3 years ago but said that must have been a mistake. Natwest wont send debit cards either. However, banks in the rest of europe dont have any problem with this.... And are they losing money through fraud than the UK banks ? Not that i know of....

I bank with Halifax. I regulary use their on-line banking service to transfer money from my UK account to Thailand. I have been doing that for 4 years without any problem. However, they will only send a debit card to Thailand if it is lost or stolen while I am on holiday, in which case my tavel insurance covers the cost of the secure delivery. So I guess I must be on holiday

I make apoint of telling Halifax bank the dates of when I travel to and return from Thailand, which they record that in their security system. In theory, I am not supposed to access their on-line banking service from abroad. Fortunately, they seem to ignore that rule.

[bifftastic]

Is there any particular reason, that you're aware, of as to why they forbid this kind of transaction from abroad? I guess the accounts are for UK residents but plenty of people are resident in the UK and still need to do this whilst abroad.

Cheers.

Sod's Law !

The only reference I can put my hands on is:-

Online service usage

The online service is intended for use by UK residents only. Before viewing the site from abroad you should ensure that you are not breaking any laws or regulations of the country you are in. You must not use the online service to apply for products whilst outside the UK.

I have also seen a message that is worded " You can access your accounts overseas but you MUST not undertake transfers or payments..."

Ah ok, they probably want to restrict everything to having originated in the UK as they're under UK law and aren't familiar with or don't want to get involved with any other countries possible banking restrictions.

Good point about 'being on holiday' and having the card sent out, a few people have posted before about banks refusing to send cards abroad.

[happylarry]

I really cant see why the op has his knickkers in a twist.

The nat-west hasnt suddenly changed their rules. When he decided to live abroad then he should have made arrangements then, for whatever his financial requirements needed.

I have been with the nat-west for 40 years with no problems at all.

When I relocated to Thailand I made arrangements with my son to fill out the transfer forms and present them to the bank for me, when ever I needed a money transfer. I could have changed banks but felt no need.

The thing to do is plan ahead, not to throw your rattle out of the pram later when you discover their rules and regs dont suit you.

HL

[Asmerom]

However, it was also remiss of him not have ensured that he had a robust transfer system in place. Same same UK or Thailand, cover your ar5e - don't wait until you HAVE to transact something to do battle with suppliers systems/rules/service levels etc, etc

I may be mistaken, but I don't think it's possible to "set up a robust transfer system" with Nat West. Perhaps, if you're a valued business customer tansfering millions it is, but for the occaisional £5000 I don't think they will allow it. Even the contented poster who has to recruit his son to do the bank's work, appears to recognise this.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Asmerom

[Trickcyclist]

left them in 1969, shortly after i got a letter from branch manager advising me that I was one old halfpenny overdrawn..wish I kept the letter!

Get yourself a sterling account in Thailand.

[Jonathanpattaya]

I have been banking with NatWest for twenty years with nothing to complain about.

With their iBanking service, I have successfully transferred funds via SWIFT on several occasions.

[Chaimai]

However, it was also remiss of him not have ensured that he had a robust transfer system in place. Same same UK or Thailand, cover your ar5e - don't wait until you HAVE to transact something to do battle with suppliers systems/rules/service levels etc, etc

I may be mistaken, but I don't think it's possible to "set up a robust transfer system" with Nat West. Perhaps, if you're a valued business customer tansfering millions it is, but for the occaisional £5000 I don't think they will allow it. Even the contented poster who has to recruit his son to do the bank's work, appears to recognise this.

It is possible (see various posts inc happyharry and jonathanpattaya).

If, for any reason (and frankly I doubt this) it is not possible to set something up with your own bank - change banks. Halifax offer a free account transfer service (they all do) and with a Reward account you get GBP 5.00 credited every month you pay in/transfer more than GBP 1,000. That covers most of the GBP 9.50 on line SWIFT charge.

[cheshiremusicman]

Allow me to get something off my chest:

I have long been muttering to myself to get a lump sum transferred to my Kasikorn account.

Having watched the GBP get decimated recently I noticed a small rise last week and decided

to finally call (since my Natwest Online Banking account does not allow me to do international

transfers) the customer service line.

They informed me that they are not authorised to do SWIFT transfers, but that I would have to

physically go and visit a Natwest branch OR send my local branch a signed letter.

Asking them if they had a fax I could send this to, they answered "unfortunately, we do not have

this facility".

So next day I was off to DHL and paid 1122 THB to send an express letter to my Natwest branch

asking them to please perform a service for which they charge 10 GBP. I'm gobsmacked.

And I have little confidence they won't cock it up along the way - I can imagine the frowning going

on in the back office as they receive this strange "scam letter" from Thailand.

Apparently had I been a Private Banking customer they could have transferred me in a few seconds.

To be a Private Banking customer requires 75000GBP income or 100000GBP liquid assets.

Combine this with a long string of mistakes, cock-ups and being lied to by managers (6 years ago

the manager of my local branch guaranteed me that ALL banks in the UK had a turnaround time of

3 weeks for a new credit card. I went up the road to HSBC who gave me a new account, a credit card

and debit card incl., in about 5 working days).

On a trip to Brazil I spent 25GBP on calls to have them unblock my debit card because the security pre-checks

on their customer service line took 5 minutes to get through.

Natwest is probably the biggest joke in banking I have come across. Their staff at branch level are well-meaning

and on occasion even intelligent. However, they seem to have no power and are left with a back office and IT system that is inept

and run by someone who does not understand how to service people.

You may ask, why don't I just change bank? they gave a generous overdraft a while back and I'm counting on that

when things go tits up. I think I'll want to switch to HSBC soon though.

Sorry, lots of misplaced, pent up rage. But what a joke...

I do have to agree with you. My wife and I are in the process of sending off a stinking email to our 'Personal Private manager'

at NatWest who recently cocked up big time.

With regards to 'money transfers to Thailand', even as a 'Privileged customer' whatever that means, we have to give them a 'Foreign Transfer Retained Transaction code' and go through the hoops to get them to transfer monies over and then pay the 'normal' charges for 3/4 day transfer or pay extra for a 2 day transfer. As far as we are concerned their is no 'Internet transfer system available' and we have to phone the 'International Banking Transfer Division.' It's a joke as you say!

We have had enough of their cr4p and intend to move elswhere. Incidentally, it still costs us some £250 per year to have our 'Private Banking manager' so I think that it is time to tell HIM & them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

All advice taken on board as to who to move to please?

[david96]

UK banks must be well behind the times.

I have an Australian bank account and using their Internet Banking can transfer money to any bank, pay acounts etc. An Internet banking transfer to Thailand costs AUD22. Money is in Thai bank acount same day. Yes the bank uses SWIFT.

I am sure that if you had an HSBC account you could have internet banking.

Plus you have security and safety.

There must be banks in the UK that have internet banking for their customers.

[david96]

Am I alone in thinking that folks ought to be grateful that banks have implemented half way decent security measures to protect their customers? If a customer hasn't granted their bank approval to perform SWIFT transfers then of course they should be denied, until such time as it can be confirmed that the customer has given their approval and that means original documents and original signature, not fax and not email. If folks sign up to anything less than those things then they may as well agree that Nigerian scammers can simply email their bank and ask that it transfers the contents of the customers bank account to anywhere they wish. Sorry, I know it's frustrating the first time around but when you stop and think about it, it's all in your best interests.

About six months ago I checked with my bank to see if they did internation transfers if one was to send a fax to authorise the transfer. Their reply was that it could not be done in this way.

The only way was at a bank branch in person with ID, or, to use Internet banking.

That is why they have internet banking.

Befor internet banking it was possible to authorise transactions by Fax or Mail.

But the risk was born by the account holder, one usually telephoned them first before sending the Fax.

[PhilHarries]

[befor internet banking it was possible to authorise transactions by Fax or Mail.

But the risk was born by the account holder, one usually telephoned them first before sending the Fax.

Don't know what bank you are with but I've transferred money by mailing the instruction and having them call me to confirm with two of my UK banks, the latest being last November and no problem. You do need to include a certified copy of your passport with the letter and they phone you on the number they have on file so if you've changed phone number you are bu66ered.

[david96]

[befor internet banking it was possible to authorise transactions by Fax or Mail.

But the risk was born by the account holder, one usually telephoned them first before sending the Fax.

Don't know what bank you are with but I've transferred money by mailing the instruction and having them call me to confirm with two of my UK banks, the latest being last November and no problem. You do need to include a certified copy of your passport with the letter and they phone you on the number they have on file so if you've changed phone number you are bu66ered.

It was an Australian Bank, however transfers were able to be done by fax to the HSBC bank in Brisbane up to about 8 years ago, before internet banking was introduced. They still have a standard form on their internet site which can be printed off an sent by mail or fax, but they prefer transfers by internet.

And lets face it internet banking is fast and secure.

[schmutzie]

UK banks must be well behind the times.

I have an Australian bank account and using their Internet Banking can transfer money to any bank, pay acounts etc. An Internet banking transfer to Thailand costs AUD22. Money is in Thai bank acount same day. Yes the bank uses SWIFT.

I am sure that if you had an HSBC account you could have internet banking.

Plus you have security and safety.

There must be banks in the UK that have internet banking for their customers.

They do have internet banking - all UK banks offer that. International transfers are just not offered as standard.

As I mentioned in a previous post, Natwest, which is my current UK bank, offers a Private Banking service.

As part of this service you would be able to do these types of transfers over the phone and/or possibly via their

special internet banking service for these types of customers.

Sadly, in recent years, the UK banks have started to cut back on free services and service levels in general for standard

retail customers.

In comparison, I have another European non-UK account (with less funds) where I can call or email a personal advisor. This is standard

practice there. Likewise with my Kasikorn account setup experience. Just amazingly smooth.

I spoke to Natwest Customer Services and we discussed the SWIFT transfer and the time it would take to complete. The operator muttered something about "depending on how good the banks are there (in Thailand)..." and I felt pleasure in telling him that "they're pretty good. In fact, much better than UK banks". Cue nervous laughter at the other end...

The point is that UK banks and their staff just seems hopelessly immature. It seems that retail banking is increasingly attracting not very capable individuals. A bit harsh perhaps, but that's how I feel.

Edited April 29, 2010 by schmutzie