One Thai's View On Death

[bina]

any body else get feedback about THE BIG QUESTIONS: what happens after we die etc??? when asking thai friends to explain

the other day, while contemplating quitting smoking, we were discussing death: where do we go when we are dead>\\i wanted to get some idea of his buddhist/animist orientation towards matters that we, here, discuss daily

sompong's answers: i;m not afraid to die, when i'm dead its 'sabai sabai, sleep... while we are living, we work hard, drink too much, back hurts, etc etc... when dead we can sleep and thats fine by me'...

what about 'taam dee...' , u drink, smoke, etc etc.... he says: bad people will go back to a place where they have to move heavy rocks all day and work too hard, good people will sit around (his idea of 'heaven') sleeping, eating and drinking, preferably, lao!

what if we come back to this world: he says: i'll be given a choice between several things and will have to pick one (ant donkey bug whatever)...

what abut the fact that u hunt and kill and eat animals for meat, etc: he says: killing an animal for food is fine, killing for anything else, is not (including euthenasia as we have to argue about this every time i have to 'put an animal down' for medical reasons...)

why dont u go to the wat when u are at home:his reply: i do, i go to play takrow, to see morlum, when i was a kid we would steal bamboo ... my wife does the other stuff

since he is having more problems quitting smoking (he gets angry faster) i suggested he meditate: he says: old people go to the wat to sit and meditate, i'm not old!!

it was complicated to talk in our thai/hebrew patois (the concept of an all knowing powerful jewish god vs. his thai way of thinking) and the conversation was actually funny ( i would come back as a goat and be milked all day long...etc)... i find it very hard to ask these thai about 'philisophical' questions cause they just find humouristic answers and change the subject, i think it really doesnt interest them to think about these things.... also language barriers etc....

[MP5]

What Do Buddhists Believe?

Buddhism differs from other mainstream world religions in that it may be thought of as a religious, philosophical, and ethical belief system. Followed by more than 360 million people, most who live in Asia, the Buddhist tradition is both rich and compelling to those who choose to follow its guidelines. Based upon the teachings of Sidartha Gutama, otherwise known as the Buddha, Buddhism entails ‘right thought’ and ‘right living’ in order to transcend the pain and suffering of daily existence.

Siddhartha Gautama was born into a life of luxury and affluence. Being a prince in a land where there was much pain and suffering, his father kept Siddhartha enclosed within the palace gates to shield him from the anguish that afflicted the average person. During his late 20’s, Gautama, could no longer bear to live falsely and left his wife and child in order to seek the true nature of reality. What Buddha learned during meditation was that the cause of one’s seemingly endless pain is suffering and desire. Since the cause of suffering is rooted in the mind’s attachments and desires, and because desire and attachment are caused by mistaken observations by an ego-centered self which neglects causality, peace can only be achieved by careful observations and patient mind control, sometimes referred to as mindfulness. When one leaves desire behind they are able to transcend from the world of illusion, to the state of ultimate truth -- Nirvana. The path to enlightenment is learned on an individual level through the teachings of the 4 noble truths and the eight-fold path. Some examples of these truths include to ‘avoid any evil, to seek the good, and to keep the mind pure.’

What Happens to Us After Death?

According to Buddhist tradition, reincarnation is a process in which the spirit is continually reborn after death until ultimate enlightenment is reached. This differs greatly from the Christian tradition where the soul is sent to judgment and, according to whether or not the soul was saved, will either be granted into heaven or damned in ######. In addition, when one passes from one stage of life to another, one must be mindful of thoughts and emotions. This also means surrounding oneself with loved ones and encouragement. In the Buddhist religion one can be born into other realms outside of humanity. These six realms include the hells, animal kingdom, the human world, the world of jealous gods, and the heavens. What determines the next life is termed Karma. Karma can be thought of as the tally sheet of good and bad deeds and it follows us throughout our existence.

If one lives his or her life without right thought and right action, the consequences may lead to a lesser existence. “Impure acts defile a person; stinginess defiles an offering; so evil acts defile not only this life but also the following lives.”

However, unlike Western religion, one is able to shed their bad Karma and move out of the lesser states of existence. To the Buddhist, ###### is not a place of eternal suffering, but a temporary place that one can transcend. An important distinction is that life, death, and rebirth are more of a continuum in the Buddhist faith, rather than a soul that has one life and one existence.

Ultimately, Buddhist beliefs in death reflect how one leads life in the now. The goal is to seek the good, reject evil, and above all shed ignorance. If one follows this path and continuously keeps truth in mind then one can be reborn into a higher existence. In his last words to his disciples, the Buddha said:

“Make yourself a light. Rely upon yourself: do not depend on anyone else. Make my teachings your light… My disciples, my last moment has come, but do not forget that death is only the end of the physical body. The body was born from parents and was nourished by food; just as inevitable are sickness and death. But the true Buddha is not a human body: -it is Enlightenment. A human body must die, but the Wisdom of Enlightenment will exist forever in truth and in practice….”

Much of what we know and perceive about death and dying comes from our religious background. In fact, our attitudes about death are deeply connected with our views on religion. Whether or not we believe in a God or gods shapes how we view the afterlife or lack thereof. Our fear of death can either be compounded or eased by our religious outlook. If you believe in an angry God that punishes us for all trespasses, then death can be frightening. Believing that we all go to a better place after death, regardless of behavior, can cause apathy towards death.

There seems to be a sharp rift between Eastern and Western cultural views on Death. Mainly in the beliefs in and about "salvation", reincarnation, and the afterlife. Beyond this, big differences in attitude can exist within sects or branches of the same religious tree - causing more confusion.

Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism believe in a progression of the soul after death. The accumulation of bad or good karma affects your rebirth into either a favorable or unfavorable situation, with the ultimate goal being Nirvana or enlightenment. No state is eternal except that of Nirvana; so if you do end up in a bad place you will eventually burn off the bad karma and progress.

Western religions tend to look at this life as a one chance shot at proving yourself, with the end result being an eternity in either heaven or ######. Catholics believe in an intermediate state called Purgatory where those who aren't saved but not bad enough for ###### work their way up. This is actually similar to the Buddhist idea of "burning off bad karma". Jewish beliefs vary but most often do not include the typical Christian idea of an inescapable ######. Jews see ###### more as a separation from God than an actual place full of fire and brimstone. Likewise, heaven may be viewed as a joining to God's light or spirit and not necessarily a physical place with streets of gold.

Having near on a daily basis having to care for the dying, the deceased and the communication to relatives one accepts well I do different family beliefs and the individuals last wishes.

One thing I have learnt over the years we celebrate birth and most grieve in death. Those who have a strong spirtual belief what ever there calling once accepting the final outcome seem to have an almost pleasant end to there life in this world.

Unneccessary death still to this day affects me to a degreeTrauma and especially children.

Common Sense like chiuld restraints in the car, seat belts and helmets.

Oh! I near forgot the bloody bullets!!

[chuchok]

MP3, It would be great to see what you yourself think, rather than a cut and paste job..

http://dying.about.com/cs/religiousviews/a...histBeliefs.htm

[MP5]

MP3, It would be great to see what you yourself think, rather than a cut and paste job..

http://dying.about.com/cs/religiousviews/a...histBeliefs.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's exactly where I went because it summarizes very nicely.

It doesn't matter what I think. It's what I believe and that is personal.

Having near on a daily basis having to care for the dying, the deceased and the communication to relatives one accepts well I do different family beliefs and the individuals last wishes.

One thing I have learnt over the years we celebrate birth and most grieve in death. Those who have a strong spirtual belief what ever there calling once accepting the final outcome seem to have an almost pleasant end to there life in this world.

Unneccessary death still to this day affects me to a degreeTrauma and especially children.

Common Sense like child restraints in the car, seat belts and helmets.

Oh! I near forgot the bloody bullets!!

Edited June 3, 2005 by MP5

[meom]

the other day, while contemplating quitting smoking, we were discussing death:  where do we go when we are dead>\\i wanted to get some idea of his buddhist/animist orientation towards matters that we, here, discuss daily

Slightly off topic but since it takes only a minute or less to die what's the point of discussing it daily?

[Kerryd]

I'd like to be around when the rest of the world wakes up to the truth about life and death.

When people realize the truth about creation, religion and other concepts thought up by MAN (not gods), there will be a revolution unlike any seen before.

Far too much time, energy, thought and money is devoted to these outdated concepts. It's past time those wasted resources were put to better use, such as trying to eliminate world hunger and poverty, disease, overpopulation and environmental issues.

In the not too distant future, the problems noted above will become catastophic if they are still being managed as they are today. This planet can not handle the rapid growth of it's most deadly creation.

Most species have natural methods of population control (lemmings jump off cliffs, rabbits get disease, other species get eaten by predators, ect). Man is at the top of the food chain, and has been trying to erase any possible threats to his existence for centuries. We are our own worst enemy, and in our arrogance, we assume anything we do is right.

When you die, that's it. End of story. Ashes to Ashes. No Heaven/######/Reincarnation or trip on a spaceship (Scientologists). Passing on your DNA through your offspring is the only immortality you can expect. Most of mankind has been brain-washed by outdated concepts for so long now, they are too weak-minded to accept that this is all there is. They can not even question their beliefs, because they are all based on having "faith", not proof.

Yes, I would like to be here when everyone finally realises the truth. But I won't be, 'cause I'll either be on one of those spaceships, or trying to organize the overthrow of ###### !

[MP5]

I'd like to be around when the rest of the world wakes up to the truth about life and death.

When people realize the truth about creation, religion and other concepts thought up by MAN (not gods), there will be a revolution unlike any seen before.

Far too much time, energy, thought and money is devoted to these outdated concepts. It's past time those wasted resources were put to better use, such as trying to eliminate world hunger and poverty, disease, overpopulation and environmental issues.

In the not too distant future, the problems noted above will become catastophic if they are still being managed as they are today. This planet can not handle the rapid growth of it's most deadly creation.

Most species have natural methods of population control (lemmings jump off cliffs, rabbits get disease, other species get eaten by predators, ect). Man is at the top of the food chain, and has been trying to erase any possible threats to his existence for centuries. We are our own worst enemy, and in our arrogance, we assume anything we do is right.

When you die, that's it. End of story. Ashes to Ashes. No Heaven/######/Reincarnation or trip on a spaceship (Scientologists). Passing on your DNA through your offspring is the only immortality you can expect. Most of mankind has been brain-washed by outdated concepts for so long now, they are too weak-minded to accept that this is all there is. They can not even question their beliefs, because they are all based on having "faith", not proof.

Yes, I would like to be here when everyone finally realises the truth. But I won't be, 'cause I'll either be on one of those spaceships, or trying to organize the overthrow of ###### !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All Aboard

At least we know the destination

Kerryd get the met report.

All hands stand by for further orders in the mean time help clean the planet.

You're spot on there mate as my mum would say mans inhumanity to man will be his downfall.

Faith I need it pal.

Miracles I cannot explain

When I die I 'll let those who are around know what happens, No one ever got back to me after they died so I can't promise anything.

That's me I'm back to living and caring it's too short not to enjoy

When you're dead you're dead until proven otherwise

MP5 Out.

Edited June 3, 2005 by MP5

[bina]

yeah, the buddhist mainline thing i know, i just was curious as jto personal thoughts (those of people whom live or are close to thais... since most thai people are not active buddhist as much as they are culturally buddhist (how many thai do u knwo that meditate etc)....

which is why i didnt post this in the buddhist section, as we've discussed the karma, death etc thing there but not on a personal level but on a scholarly level....

wanted to get personal reactions to better understand the people i deal with and am friendly with (issan farmer types) as opposed to what the buddhist scriptures state....

like what your wives think (or husbands for thsoe that have or partners to be PC... )