Thai Army Tells Red Shirts To Disperse From Rally Base

[warman]

Anyone is allowed an opinion on the current political circus in Thailand. To say go home, or kick them out is to deny people the right to protest what they see as unjust. I am sure in other less developed regimes they would simply send in the troops and create a bloodbath, but that is not really smart is it? You have a country that has painted over the cracks in its political dam for so many years, that it is now crumbling from within, and all you can post is "get out". I know that many of you will simply say I am a red shirt loony farang, or some other "soundbite" throw away comment that has become so popular amongst posters. How about seeing this situation as an opportunity for Thailand to sit down and have a good look at its political structures, and ask itself how can we change things so that people of different shirt colors cannot paralyze the country anytime they feel aggrieved, and that other less confrontational options are available for them to be heard. How about fixing the illness rather than the symptoms, and that begins with the political structures themselves. Everyone it seems in Thailand is talking, and no one is listening whether red, yellow or polka dots.

[termad]

Oh give over. But I suppose that there is nothing else that you can say when faced with irrefutable facts like the chronology of events.

You dismiss as irrelevant the fact that your PAD yellow heroes did indeed start this whole mob rule thing. I assume you knwo what the word 'start' means - just in case you don't, it means that the yellows took to the streets before the reds even existed. The yellows overthrew a democratically elected civilian government, and they were allowed to get away with it. People on the other side detest them for that, a hatred which is manifested in what is happening on the streets of Bangkok and elsewhere in Thailand at the moment.

Why doesn't Abhisit hold an election, get a legitimate public mandate, and then use it to confound the reds? I'll tell you why - he would lose an election, because people simply don't like him enough for him to keep his job democratically. He is seen by the majority (i.e. the whole country - not just Bangkok) as not understanding them and failing to represent their best interests, and they think he sucks for that.

The only way that Abhisit can keep the seat that he stole is by hiding like a craven-hearted coward, while killing his own people and splittig the country in half. I look forward to seeing him pay for it.

The PAD didn't overthrow any government.

The PPP got caught red handed committing electoral fraud. So they were disbanded.

But that didn't even lead to the overthrow of the government. The PTP (where all the ex-PPP MPs went) were still in government.

The smaller parties that helped the PPP come to power stopped supporting them and that is the one and only reason why they are not in government now.

The PPP/PTP became the minority. Minorities don't get to run government.

Majorities get to run government. And they don't need to call elections whenever a minority mob comes out to protest.

Well said Sir the truth has to be out. Strange how many people have selective memories and then fabricate their own stories to suit their own political leaning.

Could you tell me when the PPP got caught red handed committing electoral fraud.

[grandpops]

No I just think that ONE thread is adequate for discussion of the historic airport incident. It is clearly a pro red propaganda tactic to bring it up on every thread and harp on it endlessly, to prevent people from actually discussing the current events. I never said banish people, I clearly expressed a desire that the threads be moderated in such a way that the efforts to make ALL threads about the airport be prevented. It really isn't fair to people who want to talk about current events.

Its current as a lot of newbies were not here then. They think evil begins and ends with Thaksin.

We should, at every stage, compare the treatment of the PAD with the treatment the Redshirts are getting. Why, some of the airport invaders are even in positions of power now and screaming at the army to remove protesters from the streets. Then, threatening to do it again if anybody other than the Democrats are ever elected back into government.

When the double standards stop, there will be no need to contrast these differences.

Sorry your attempt at news management failed.

Perhaps if you posted with more depth than your usual sneers, smears and trying to get posts banned, you could add something to the debates. You don't actually talk much about issues, you snipe from the sidelines.

Edited April 22, 2010 by grandpops

[Mamuang16]

The political battle becoming dirtier by the day

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Published on April 22, 2010

Thais appear to be keen on expanding the ongoing conflict instead of containing it, with many different colour-coded groups emerging to confront the red-shirt protesters. Such confrontation would only orchestrate violence, if not a civil war.

Initially, the current political stalemate was only meant to be a conflict between Abhisit Vejjajiva's government and former PM Thaksin Shinawata's supporters. Now, unfortunately, lots of issues are being raised and more and more people are getting involved.

For instance, middle-class Bangkokians - at the end of their tether over the chaos caused by the red shirts - decided to take to the streets in multicoloured shirts last week to express their dissatisfaction. Some of them had minor clashes with the red shirts near Lumpini Park, while others had a bit of a fracas on Silom Road.

The multicolour group was born along the same lines as the red shirt's arch foe, the yellow-clad People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). Their demands are the same - disperse the protesters.

In fact, it is no secret that leaders of the multicoloured group used to be members of the PAD movement, which brought down the red-influenced governments of late Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat in 2008 before putting Abhisit at the helm.

The right-wing PAD has given the government a week to bring down the red-shirt movement, otherwise the group - which now calls itself a royal guardian - will take things into its own hands.

The yellow-shirt PAD is accusing Thaksin's red-shirt supporters of trying to bring about a "regime change" in which the Kingdom of Thailand becomes a republic, with Thaksin as its first president.

Although the red shirts' demand for a new election is nothing strange in a democratic society, Prime Minister Abhisit is subscribing to the PAD's belief and echoing accusations that the reds are committing "acts of terrorism" to bring about a "great change" in Thailand.

On Tuesday, an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the red-shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists.

The anti-monarchist accusation in Thailand is powerful enough to destroy anybody. The institution of monarchy has been firmly established in the Kingdom for a long time. Stringent laws protect the monarch from the slightest of criticism and if anybody gets accused of lese majeste, it is hard for them to escape.

On October 6, 1976, student activists in Thammasat University were massacred just because they were accused of being anti-monarchists. Many politicians, including the red-shirt leader Veera Musigapong and some members of the ruling Democrat Party, have had bitter experiences related to the lese majeste law.

The stickers on Silom Road prompted an immediate denial from Thaksin, with the red-shirt leaders declaring on Tuesday that it was a dirty political game. They know the power of anti-monarchy accusations.

However, if Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/04/22/politics/The-political-battle-becoming-dirtier-by-the-day-30127632.html

[Jingthing]

You can't negotiate with violent people who continuously refuse to negotiate, who continuously break the law, who continuously prove they are a violent force of anarchy rather than the non-violent movement they lied about being ...

[anotherpeter]

The PAD didn't overthrow any government.

That's not true. The PAD aligned generals overthrew the democratically elected civilian government in the coup of September 2006. Take a look at a calender, and you will note that September 2006 was before the red lot existed.

The majority of Thais (i.e. not just Bangkok), and the international community, saw that this led to a chain of events that led to the installation of Abhisit. Thais are fair people, and they see Abhisit as nothing more than a hypocritical puppet because of the way that he got his job. It appears that he stole his seat, then made all sorts of feeble excuses as to why he should keep it, then set the army against itself and his own people. Abhisit is hated and despised him for that, and as long as he stays it is difficult to envisage an end to this crisis that does not divide the country even further, even dividing the army which is a very frightening thought.

Now if Abhisit called an election and proved all these reds wrong by getting elected fair and square, how stupid would the reds look then? They would loose face big time, and Abhisit would transform his image from one of a dictator in the making into a pillar of integrity and strength.

The trouble is that Abhisit won't call an election because he is too much of a weak coward to put his popularity to the acid test. He lacks integrity.

And who was in government when the coup occurred in 2006? A care-taker PM who had failed to organise elections in the allowed time, and was trying to change the laws so that the invalidated 2006 election could stand.

A majority of Thais, and the international community, accept that Abhisit is the legitimate PM of Thailand.

It's only a minority that are angry because their Thaksin puppet party is no longer in power.

[Lumumba]

Nutthawut to Allow Soldiers to Proceed to Southern Border Provinces

BANGKOK: -- Key red-shirt leader Nutthawut Saigua has ordered, via a telephone-link, the red-shirt protesters who are gathering at Khon Kaen train station to allow the train carrying soldiers, military equipment and supplies to pass through to the southern border provinces.

However, Nutthawut demanded that a number of red-shirt protesters be allowed to accompany the train to ensure that the soldiers were not going to be sent as reinforcement for military forces that are being assembled to allegedly prepare to disperse the red-shirt protesters in Bangkok.

Unbelievable! What kind Commander in Chief would allow a two bit tin horn like Nutthawut dictate to the army where their troups can go and under what conditions? Try this in any other contry and sit back and watch what happens.

Who is the commander in chief? Pray tell.

[termad]

Totally wrong. The two governments before this one were voted into power by the people. This government (Abhisit) was installed by the Military and the Amartaya when they bought forty Phuea Thai MPs, The Friends of Newin. The forty MPs then supported Abhisit and later formed the Bhumjaithai Party. Bhumjaithai are the largest member of the coalition but are a party that has never stood for election.

Those forty MPs sold the votes of their electorate and made themselves rich but are now too scared to go home and face that electorate. The purchase of those forty Phuea Thai MPs and the millions of votes that they represent must be the largest proven example of vote buying in history. Corruption is rampant in the Democrat Party - take for instance the Ministry of Health scandal or the billion(s) baht Dust Free Roads scam that Bhumjaithai Party nearly pulled off - and Abhisit has the cheek to try and claim the moral high ground. The sooner the Democrat Party is disolved the better for all.

You get who you vote for.

Just because they changed sides (for whatever reason) doesn't change the fact that they were MPs that were voted for by the people.

After the PPP was disbanded, this group of MPs formed their own party. Much the same as all the other PPP MPs went to the PTP (which hasn't stood for election either).

They decided that they didn't like what the PPP/PTP were doing, so they no longer supported them? What's wrong with that?

They decided that they no longer wanted to support an inept government, that was only about one thing - Getting Thaksin back.

Oh, for god's sake why don't you tear-up that little picture of Abhisit that all his groupies carry and admit what the whole of Thailand knows which is the fact that the forty friends of Newin were bought. He even got his father installed as Speaker of the Lower House as part of the same deal. Why do you keep trotting out the same old rubbish? Even members of the Democrat Party (and I know some) will tell you, with a smirk on their faces, that Newin was bought!

Edited April 22, 2010 by termad

[grandpops]

Nutthawut to Allow Soldiers to Proceed to Southern Border Provinces

BANGKOK: -- Key red-shirt leader Nutthawut Saigua has ordered, via a telephone-link, the red-shirt protesters who are gathering at Khon Kaen train station to allow the train carrying soldiers, military equipment and supplies to pass through to the southern border provinces.

However, Nutthawut demanded that a number of red-shirt protesters be allowed to accompany the train to ensure that the soldiers were not going to be sent as reinforcement for military forces that are being assembled to allegedly prepare to disperse the red-shirt protesters in Bangkok.

Unbelievable! What kind Commander in Chief would allow a two bit tin horn like Nutthawut dictate to the army where their troups can go and under what conditions? Try this in any other contry and sit back and watch what happens.

They are all Thais at the end of the day. Red, Yellow, Pink, Blue we will never fully understand the way things work here. We must try though.

Troops and police in any country can only operate with the consent of the population. Sheer numbers, even when you are fully armed, will overwhelm you most of the time. It's percentages and there are a lot of people in the North of the Country who really do need to be listened to this time.

The violence stopped on 10th when the Army asked for a truce and the red-shirts stopped chasing them. The upper hand had clearly been gained by the reds and they didn't press their advantage against their brothers. It was fair play on their side, they were attacked, they responded and won, they were merciful in victory.

Quite clearly some redshirts were stopping the violence and helping the army remove injured. They are brothers under the skin, and a good football tournament which they did well in would improve the situation here no end.

[ozzieman05]

Nutthawut to Allow Soldiers to Proceed to Southern Border Provinces

BANGKOK: -- Key red-shirt leader Nutthawut Saigua has ordered, via a telephone-link, the red-shirt protesters who are gathering at Khon Kaen train station to allow the train carrying soldiers, military equipment and supplies to pass through to the southern border provinces.

However, Nutthawut demanded that a number of red-shirt protesters be allowed to accompany the train to ensure that the soldiers were not going to be sent as reinforcement for military forces that are being assembled to allegedly prepare to disperse the red-shirt protesters in Bangkok.

Unbelievable! What kind Commander in Chief would allow a two bit tin horn like Nutthawut dictate to the army where their troups can go and under what conditions? Try this in any other contry and sit back and watch what happens.

The militants in the south must be killing then selves laughing they are sending who

A bunch of soldier that can not even stand up to farmers

Lets just send our women to fight them

we have better things to do

[somo]

I have to walk through these red animals every day, currently they have piles of car tyres, soaked in petrol (i saw this with my own eyes), reinforced with sharpened bamboo sticks, piles of bamboo spears stacked near by. The red guards are now carrying pistols (cant confirm if its all of them or just a few - but i saw at least 2 guards armed with firearms) i tried to take a photo but they chased me off.

Still convinced the reds are the good guys?

From my own personal vantage point having spent the last 3 weeks going through their camp twice a day every day i can say, hand on my heart, these guys are pure and simply thugs. The military need to act and soon, yes people will get hurt, and yes people will die, but these reds have been warned multiple times already, if its red blood in the streets they have nobody to blame but themselves. Simple as that.

Gooner, I 100% agree on your statement. At least you are a front-line news reporter who is checking the situation every day on this site. These reds WANT BLOOD! Please stay tuned!

<deleted>! Front line reporting - what a joke!!

I have been down there and walked through many times including just an hour ago and was made most welcome.

Friendly smiling peoople everywhere. Sure they are building some basic defenses but against tanks and automatic weapons they are trivial. As one other member who lives in the area mentioned here you should go there and enjoy a unique experience. The food, music and atmosphere are great.

[csolgosz]

Totally wrong. The two governments before this one were voted into power by the people. This government (Abhisit) was installed by the Military and the Amartaya when they bought forty Phuea Thai MPs, The Friends of Newin. The forty MPs then supported Abhisit and later formed the Bhumjaithai Party. Bhumjaithai are the largest member of the coalition but are a party that has never stood for election.

Those forty MPs sold the votes of their electorate and made themselves rich but are now too scared to go home and face that electorate. The purchase of those forty Phuea Thai MPs and the millions of votes that they represent must be the largest proven example of vote buying in history. Corruption is rampant in the Democrat Party - take for instance the Ministry of Health scandal or the billion(s) baht Dust Free Roads scam that Bhumjaithai Party nearly pulled off - and Abhisit has the cheek to try and claim the moral high ground. The sooner the Democrat Party is disolved the better for all.

You get who you vote for.

Just because they changed sides (for whatever reason) doesn't change the fact that they were MPs that were voted for by the people.

After the PPP was disbanded, this group of MPs formed their own party. Much the same as all the other PPP MPs went to the PTP (which hasn't stood for election either).

They decided that they didn't like what the PPP/PTP were doing, so they no longer supported them? What's wrong with that?

They decided that they no longer wanted to support an inept government, that was only about one thing - Getting Thaksin back.

'termad' is absolutely correct - thanks for some clarity! An MP should represent his/her constituents. Now they do not - that is clear from the scale of the uprisings. The Army has advised that 70% of the protesters are from Bangkok (NB!!!!) On the Newin issue, the MPs in question were kept locked and guarded in a hotel and deprived of all means of communication, including their personal mobile phones before being escorted to parliament the next day. THAT is fact, and many people on these forums have conveniently short and biased memories.

Also, I note that 'anotherpeter' and others cannot tolerate anyone else's point of view, or even presentation of facts. I expect that they are supporters and readers of such garbage as 'The Nation'... which seems to keep pushing suggestions of brutal repression of the Thai people who are protesting. They go as far as saying that contributors on this thread are insane, or on drugs. I ask the moderators to intervene and ban the offenders.

And... grandpops, keep up the posts - they are drawing out lots of cockroaches from the woodwork!

[danc]

It is all a question of perception...

From the BBC December 2008

"It's over, Boss." With those three words, veteran politician Newin Chidchob finally broke the deadlock that has paralysed Thailand for the past three years. They were uttered in a phone conversation with Thaksin Shinawatra last week, the man to whom Mr Newin had been faithful for almost eight years, as the exiled former prime minister pleaded with him to reconsider his decision to defect to the opposition Democrats. Mr Newin was also the first to break the bonds of money and genuine loyalty which have made the Thaksinistas the most powerful political force in Thailand for the past decade. And he shattered any final illusions that might still have been harboured here that, a decade ago, Thailand's politics had entered a new age with the adoption of a new, populist constitution, and the rise of a new, populist party.

For Newin Chidchob has now reverted to type - the type being a provincial strongman, schooled in the rough-house politics of one of Thailand's roughest neighbourhoods, Buri Ram, who simply sells his team of MPs to the highest bidder.

This is what Mr Newin (who was named by his father after the notorious Burmese General Ne Win) did before the formation of Thaksin Shinawatra's Thai Rak Thai party in 1998. It is what every other provincial godfather did.

These men dominated business and politics in their regions, offering voters a tantalising vision of abundant new development money if their votes gave the faction a shot at a cabinet position. They would then collect as many loyal MPs around them as they could after the election campaign, which they funded generously, and offer the support of those MPs in parliament to whichever prospective government made them the most attractive offer. This practice delivered Thailand a succession of short-lived, messy coalition governments in the 1990s, better known for corruption scandals than good governance. It was under such governments - in which Mr Newin participated - that Thailand sleep-walked into the catastrophic 1997 financial crisis.

Appalled by the calibre of their politicians, Thailand's middle-class applauded the birth of a new constitution in the same year - the country's 16th, but the first to be drawn up after extensive consultation with NGOs and other representatives of civil society.

This constitution was the first to enshrine protection of human rights and freedom of expression. It created a number of independent bodies that were given legal powers to rein in corruption. But the new charter also had another objective. Several of its articles, like the one restricting MPs' freedom to jump from one party to another, were intended to strengthen political parties in the hope that Thailand would progress to a more stable parliamentary system, as in western Europe.

Its drafters hoped this would nurture a new breed of clean, professional politicians to replace the corrupt old godfathers.

One of those goals, producing stronger parties, was realised with surprising speed. Thaksin Shinawatra, an ambitious provincial businessman who had made a fortune from telecoms, and managed to keep it during the financial crisis, built a new-style party called Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais). It used modern marketing methods and a raft of new, populist policies to win the support of the rural electorate. It encouraged mass party membership, and its appeal went right over the heads of the godfathers, making Mr Thaksin an instant political superstar. The godfathers did not go away. Instead, recognising this new political phenomenon, they opted to move under the Thai Rak Thai umbrella. Newin Chidchob was one of them.

Mr Thaksin's wealth and personal popularity gave him a far stronger hand in dealing with the godfathers than any other party in Thailand's history, so his governments were not crippled by the demands of coalition partners, as his predecessors had been.

In 2001 he won his first election, and became the first prime minister in Thai history to complete a four year term in office. In the 2005 election he became the first prime minister to win an outright majority. He inspired passionate loyalty among his lieutenants, among them Mr Newin, and he left the Democrats, Thailand's oldest party, floundering. Thailand seemed to have put the era of weak coalition governments behind it.

The story of how Mr Thaksin turned a position of such strength into his situation today - where he is a fading political force, stuck in exile - has been written about extensively elsewhere. But it is only now, when the newspapers are carrying front-page photographs of the clean-cut Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva giving a bunch of roses to Newin Chidchob, once the mortal enemy of the Democrats and every bit the old-style godfather, that it is clear Thailand has come full-circle. After three years of turmoil, old politics is back, where politicians of whatever persuasion can climb into bed with whoever gives them a shot at power. It is a depressing scenario, one which finally buries all the high hopes that were raised by the 1997 constitution.

Doubtless many of those now embracing old politics again, perhaps even Mr Abhisit and Mr Newin, do not feel particularly good about it. Blame for this will be fired in many directions - at Mr Thaksin, at the military, at the Democrats, at the monarchy even, whose role in recent events is till unclear. But at a time when Thailand is confronting its worst economic outlook since the disastrous events of 1997, old politics is unlikely to give it a government capable of meeting the challenge..

Stop arguing one side is better then the other - TIT

[ozzieman05]

Anyone is allowed an opinion on the current political circus in Thailand. To say go home, or kick them out is to deny people the right to protest what they see as unjust. I am sure in other less developed regimes they would simply send in the troops and create a bloodbath, but that is not really smart is it? You have a country that has painted over the cracks in its political dam for so many years, that it is now crumbling from within, and all you can post is "get out". I know that many of you will simply say I am a red shirt loony farang, or some other "soundbite" throw away comment that has become so popular amongst posters. How about seeing this situation as an opportunity for Thailand to sit down and have a good look at its political structures, and ask itself how can we change things so that people of different shirt colors cannot paralyze the country anytime they feel aggrieved, and that other less confrontational options are available for them to be heard. How about fixing the illness rather than the symptoms, and that begins with the political structures themselves. Everyone it seems in Thailand is talking, and no one is listening whether red, yellow or polka dots.

Pardon Me

I want the red protestors to go home, see that they have already started a change and not die for the wishes or currupt Red shirt leaders who could not care less about them,

They have already won a great victory

Just not the victory the leader want

True domacracy takes time

Be part of it and watch it grow

This no longer has any thing to do with free speech

This is about being sacrificed for a cause that has nothing to do with Freedom for Issan people

[cmsally]

You can't negotiate with violent people who continuously refuse to negotiate, who continuously break the law, who continuously prove they are a violent force of anarchy rather than the non-violent movement they lied about being ...

Sometimes it is better to reaffirm exactly which faction you are talking about - in Thai politics that could refer to just about anyone.

[selftaopath]

Another final warning

I know! Thailand the hub of warnings. :-)

[pimay11]

Anyone is allowed an opinion on the current political circus in Thailand. To say go home, or kick them out is to deny people the right to protest what they see as unjust. I am sure in other less developed regimes they would simply send in the troops and create a bloodbath, but that is not really smart is it? You have a country that has painted over the cracks in its political dam for so many years, that it is now crumbling from within, and all you can post is "get out". I know that many of you will simply say I am a red shirt loony farang, or some other "soundbite" throw away comment that has become so popular amongst posters. How about seeing this situation as an opportunity for Thailand to sit down and have a good look at its political structures, and ask itself how can we change things so that people of different shirt colors cannot paralyze the country anytime they feel aggrieved, and that other less confrontational options are available for them to be heard. How about fixing the illness rather than the symptoms, and that begins with the political structures themselves. Everyone it seems in Thailand is talking, and no one is listening whether red, yellow or polka dots.

warman your suggestion is a good one to some extent and agreed that a group of angry people should not be able to shut down the country. But you have to remember the reds did not start their demonstrations in Bangkok (this time) until the courts ruled to sieze Mr. T's money. Immediately after this court action this fiasco began. If they would drop the demand of an immediate house dissolusion which is easily seen through and disown Mr. T they would gain credibility with a lot of Thai people. But as we all know this is not their MO.

[ozzieman05]

Oh give over. But I suppose that there is nothing else that you can say when faced with irrefutable facts like the chronology of events.

You dismiss as irrelevant the fact that your PAD yellow heroes did indeed start this whole mob rule thing. I assume you knwo what the word 'start' means - just in case you don't, it means that the yellows took to the streets before the reds even existed. The yellows overthrew a democratically elected civilian government, and they were allowed to get away with it. People on the other side detest them for that, a hatred which is manifested in what is happening on the streets of Bangkok and elsewhere in Thailand at the moment.

Why doesn't Abhisit hold an election, get a legitimate public mandate, and then use it to confound the reds? I'll tell you why - he would lose an election, because people simply don't like him enough for him to keep his job democratically. He is seen by the majority (i.e. the whole country - not just Bangkok) as not understanding them and failing to represent their best interests, and they think he sucks for that.

The only way that Abhisit can keep the seat that he stole is by hiding like a craven-hearted coward, while killing his own people and splittig the country in half. I look forward to seeing him pay for it.

The PAD didn't overthrow any government.

The PPP got caught red handed committing electoral fraud. So they were disbanded.

But that didn't even lead to the overthrow of the government. The PTP (where all the ex-PPP MPs went) were still in government.

The smaller parties that helped the PPP come to power stopped supporting them and that is the one and only reason why they are not in government now.

The PPP/PTP became the minority. Minorities don't get to run government.

Majorities get to run government. And they don't need to call elections whenever a minority mob comes out to protest.

Well said Sir the truth has to be out. Strange how many people have selective memories and then fabricate their own stories to suit their own political leaning.

Could you tell me when the PPP got caught red handed committing electoral fraud.

Do your own research

this forum has disccused this hundreds of times

[termad]

The political battle becoming dirtier by the day

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Published on April 22, 2010

Thais appear to be keen on expanding the ongoing conflict instead of containing it, with many different colour-coded groups emerging to confront the red-shirt protesters. Such confrontation would only orchestrate violence, if not a civil war.

Initially, the current political stalemate was only meant to be a conflict between Abhisit Vejjajiva's government and former PM Thaksin Shinawata's supporters. Now, unfortunately, lots of issues are being raised and more and more people are getting involved.

For instance, middle-class Bangkokians - at the end of their tether over the chaos caused by the red shirts - decided to take to the streets in multicoloured shirts last week to express their dissatisfaction. Some of them had minor clashes with the red shirts near Lumpini Park, while others had a bit of a fracas on Silom Road.

The multicolour group was born along the same lines as the red shirt's arch foe, the yellow-clad People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). Their demands are the same - disperse the protesters.

In fact, it is no secret that leaders of the multicoloured group used to be members of the PAD movement, which brought down the red-influenced governments of late Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat in 2008 before putting Abhisit at the helm.

The right-wing PAD has given the government a week to bring down the red-shirt movement, otherwise the group - which now calls itself a royal guardian - will take things into its own hands.

The yellow-shirt PAD is accusing Thaksin's red-shirt supporters of trying to bring about a "regime change" in which the Kingdom of Thailand becomes a republic, with Thaksin as its first president.

Although the red shirts' demand for a new election is nothing strange in a democratic society, Prime Minister Abhisit is subscribing to the PAD's belief and echoing accusations that the reds are committing "acts of terrorism" to bring about a "great change" in Thailand.

On Tuesday, an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the red-shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists.

The anti-monarchist accusation in Thailand is powerful enough to destroy anybody. The institution of monarchy has been firmly established in the Kingdom for a long time. Stringent laws protect the monarch from the slightest of criticism and if anybody gets accused of lese majeste, it is hard for them to escape.

On October 6, 1976, student activists in Thammasat University were massacred just because they were accused of being anti-monarchists. Many politicians, including the red-shirt leader Veera Musigapong and some members of the ruling Democrat Party, have had bitter experiences related to the lese majeste law.

The stickers on Silom Road prompted an immediate denial from Thaksin, with the red-shirt leaders declaring on Tuesday that it was a dirty political game. They know the power of anti-monarchy accusations.

However, if Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/04/22/politics/The-political-battle-becoming-dirtier-by-the-day-30127632.html

Added to which is the fact that PAD policy states that the Rural Poor are too stupid and un-educated to be allowed to vote and their MPs should be appointed and not elected. Which has been the thinking of the Amataya for the last two hundred years or so and still is. Which is why they were determined to get rid of Thaksin by any means because he explained to the Rural Poor that they had rights. It is also why Abhisit was installed as Prime Minister because he can be controlled.

[spectrumisgreen]

The easiest way (to resolve the crisis) is to dissolve parliament and then we will all go home.

Erm, yes, until the next the next 'this government isn't the one WE want' so called DEMOCRATIC - 'well we've got the word in our name (whatever it actually means!!?)' red/green/yellow polka-dot-bikini rally!!!!! :D :D :D

Edited April 22, 2010 by spectrumisgreen

[cmsally]

Totally wrong. The two governments before this one were voted into power by the people. This government (Abhisit) was installed by the Military and the Amartaya when they bought forty Phuea Thai MPs, The Friends of Newin. The forty MPs then supported Abhisit and later formed the Bhumjaithai Party. Bhumjaithai are the largest member of the coalition but are a party that has never stood for election.

Those forty MPs sold the votes of their electorate and made themselves rich but are now too scared to go home and face that electorate. The purchase of those forty Phuea Thai MPs and the millions of votes that they represent must be the largest proven example of vote buying in history. Corruption is rampant in the Democrat Party - take for instance the Ministry of Health scandal or the billion(s) baht Dust Free Roads scam that Bhumjaithai Party nearly pulled off - and Abhisit has the cheek to try and claim the moral high ground. The sooner the Democrat Party is disolved the better for all.

You get who you vote for.

Just because they changed sides (for whatever reason) doesn't change the fact that they were MPs that were voted for by the people.

After the PPP was disbanded, this group of MPs formed their own party. Much the same as all the other PPP MPs went to the PTP (which hasn't stood for election either).

They decided that they didn't like what the PPP/PTP were doing, so they no longer supported them? What's wrong with that?

They decided that they no longer wanted to support an inept government, that was only about one thing - Getting Thaksin back.

This is what causes a breakdown in the system of electoral legitimacy. In the eyes of the electorate, these personal and expedient decisions by politicians cause them to lose their legitimacy. In the past when voting was more local/personality based this wasn't a problem. Now through circumstances and recent history you have something more akin to party/belief politics. In fact the sudden arising of this factor makes it almost as extreme as having your religion switched according to the switch in beliefs of your local MP rep.

[clausewitz]

The political battle becoming dirtier by the day

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Published on April 22, 2010

The multicolour group was born along the same lines as the red shirt's arch foe, the yellow-clad People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). Their demands are the same - disperse the protesters.

In fact, it is no secret that leaders of the multicoloured group used to be members of the PAD movement, which brought down the red-influenced governments of late Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat in 2008 before putting Abhisit at the helm.

The right-wing PAD has given the government a week to bring down the red-shirt movement, otherwise the group - which now calls itself a royal guardian - will take things into its own hands.

The yellow-shirt PAD is accusing Thaksin's red-shirt supporters of trying to bring about a "regime change" in which the Kingdom of Thailand becomes a republic, with Thaksin as its first president.

Although the red shirts' demand for a new election is nothing strange in a democratic society, Prime Minister Abhisit is subscribing to the PAD's belief and echoing accusations that the reds are committing "acts of terrorism" to bring about a "great change" in Thailand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/04/22/politics/The-political-battle-becoming-dirtier-by-the-day-30127632.html

Yes hilarious stuff. Foreign Minister Kasit Promiya last week comparing Thaksin with Hitler over these protests and in an earlier speech saying that the Airport takeoever- where he was one of the main leaders - was a new era in protests and was good with great music and food.

[clausewitz]

Totally wrong. The two governments before this one were voted into power by the people. This government (Abhisit) was installed by the Military and the Amartaya when they bought forty Phuea Thai MPs, The Friends of Newin. The forty MPs then supported Abhisit and later formed the Bhumjaithai Party. Bhumjaithai are the largest member of the coalition but are a party that has never stood for election.

Those forty MPs sold the votes of their electorate and made themselves rich but are now too scared to go home and face that electorate. The purchase of those forty Phuea Thai MPs and the millions of votes that they represent must be the largest proven example of vote buying in history. Corruption is rampant in the Democrat Party - take for instance the Ministry of Health scandal or the billion(s) baht Dust Free Roads scam that Bhumjaithai Party nearly pulled off - and Abhisit has the cheek to try and claim the moral high ground. The sooner the Democrat Party is disolved the better for all.

You get who you vote for.

Just because they changed sides (for whatever reason) doesn't change the fact that they were MPs that were voted for by the people.

After the PPP was disbanded, this group of MPs formed their own party. Much the same as all the other PPP MPs went to the PTP (which hasn't stood for election either).

They decided that they didn't like what the PPP/PTP were doing, so they no longer supported them? What's wrong with that?

They decided that they no longer wanted to support an inept government, that was only about one thing - Getting Thaksin back.

This is what causes a breakdown in the system of electoral legitimacy. In the eyes of the electorate, these personal and expedient decisions by politicians cause them to lose their legitimacy. In the past when voting was more local/personality based this wasn't a problem. Now through circumstances and recent history you have something more akin to party/belief politics. In fact the sudden arising of this factor makes it almost as extreme as having your religion switched according to the switch in beliefs of your local MP rep.

And think if the supreme court in USA or the courts in UK decided to outlaw the Republican party or the Tories. And then if a new party with similar aims started that these were also disbanded. Might be a few people would protest?

[clausewitz]

. If they would drop the demand of an immediate house dissolusion which is easily seen through and disown Mr. T they would gain credibility with a lot of Thai people. But as we all know this is not their MO.

But previously Abhisit thought house dissolution should be immediate, why is it wrong when a different group propoese it?

Dispute over whether to dissolve Parliament

By The Nation Published on September 2, 2008

"During the joint sitting of the House and the Senate in Parliament on Sunday, Opposition and Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva called on Prime Minister Sama

k Sundaravej to dissolve Parliament. Sacrificing MPs would unlock the crisis and return power so voters could decide the outcome again."

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02/pol...cs_30082196.php

Democrats not being opportunistic by nominating Abhisit as new Thai PM

TNA 12 September 2008

Thailand's opposition Democrat Party denied being opportunistic in nominating its party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister after the caretaker coalition government failed early Friday to appoint a new government leader due to the lack of a quorum in the House. ...

Thais are now killing each other and there are signs that more will be killed. There should be no more negotiations," Mr. Abhisit affirmed.

Asked about his response if the ruling People Power Party dissolved the House, he said the Democrats had proposed a House dissolution from the beginning. "How to do it depends on the situation."

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=6233

Abhisit calls for House dissolution

By The Nation Published on December 3, 2008

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Wednesday urged for House dissolution on the ground that a snap election will allow a fresh start to form a viable government to tackle the political and economic woes. ...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30090130

[grandpops]

On Tuesday, an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the red-shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists.

surely there should be charges against whoever made these stickers. It is obvious that it is the PAD as no Reds have been down there.

The area is under lockdown with cameras everywhere anyway.

If the reds did this it would be on tape?

So, the PAD are prepared to commit LM in order to preserve their place in the trough. Nice though that even some at the Nation are seeing through them.

Few at the top their need to be dispatched to calm this down. They are rabid lunatics and more and more (except the intellegent PAD followers on here) are seeing this.

If these are the Elite of Thailand in Silom reading and believing these posters, then they are obvisouly much thicker than the un-educated farmers they so despise. Are they really the worlds thickest Elite?

The gloves are coming off on the Elite side as they are nearing the end of their reign. no pretense now that Abhisit is in charge. Its PAD, Thaugsabun and some dissaffected (with Anupong) army commanders.

Airforce fired verbal warning this morning. In Thai terms, what he said was very strong. So, most of the Army cannot be relied on to shore them up forever, the airforce want to see common sense prevail and a political solution, the police are on the reds side and should not be underestimates and the Navy.. well nuff said.

Those of us who have been here a long time remember when they did actually confront each other!!

Edited April 22, 2010 by grandpops

[selftaopath]

The last time the army warned people like this, 25 died on Saturday... so of all the false warnnings I've heard - and there are a LOT... this one has some credibility.

Bets on exactly when the crackdown will be? I say sometime today or latest tomorrow morning... tomorrow is when the multi-colored shirts rally... and the army should crack down to avoid any more large emotional gatherings!!!

Well Toxic and his family won't be injured. They RETREATED to other countries like good cowards and hoped again their hired servants would follow orders.

[Insight]

MULTIPLE CHOICE QUIZ!

Okay what are the likely scenario(s) over the next few days?

A. multi-colored protesters and red shirts clash and all hel_l breaks loose

B. government troops and red shirts clash and fight till red shirts are dispersed

C. government troops and red shirts clash, but red shirts prevail and remain

D. Abhisit dissolve Parliament and abandons ship

E. Thaksin dies of cancer and everyone returns to their senses

F. nothing happens and we are either bored to death or die of old age

I don't think it's right to have choices based on pure rumour and speculation; people rarely return to their senses.

[whatsupdoc]

Oh, for god's sake why don't you tear-up that little picture of Abhisit that all his groupies carry and admit what the whole of Thailand knows which is the fact that the forty friends of Newin were bought. He even got his father installed as Speaker of the Lower House as part of the same deal. Why do you keep trotting out the same old rubbish? Even members of the Democrat Party (and I know some) will tell you, with a smirk on their faces, that Newin was bought!

Then why do the Reds not protest against Newin???? Oh yes, they might still need him to get a majority (probably going to cost a lot!!!)

Edited April 22, 2010 by whatsupdoc

[vicco]

Nutthawut to Allow Soldiers to Proceed to Southern Border Provinces

BANGKOK: --

Unbelievable! What kind Commander in Chief would allow a two bit tin horn like Nutthawut dictate to the army where their troups can go and under what conditions? Try this in any other contry and sit back and watch what happens.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) it just shows once again that red tactics are keeping the military and government hopping around on one foot. I paid a visit to Khonkaen railway station just a few hours ago. Everything looks calm but very much under the reds control. There were people selling UDD T-shirts and doing a roaring trade. Sticky rice and papaya all round. There was a recruiting campaign underway and the lineup for "red" ID cards...(30 baht each) was very long.. looked like thousands of people. One woman said if the army comes to KK for their train they will have to run because so many people from the villages are coming into town to "protect" the train. We do not fear Army...they will not shoot us. (turned out the woman's son was in the Army.. ) It was quite a scene...but all very calm---no thugs, animals, morons or anything of the like to be seen anywhere. My wife told me that one of the organizers said to her that no matter what happens in BKK they will not give up. They will have to kill us all and they don't have enough bullets to do that. For every one they kill, ten thousand more will come. The soldiers that were there seemed to be very comfortable with the company they were keeping and were laughing and joking around with the locals. Not exactly crackdown material...but that's Khonkaen, not Bankok.

Now...back to the mudslinging and name calling....

[Jingthing]

On Tuesday, an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the red-shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists.

So its OK for the reds to create questionable narratives (painting the red Thaksinistas as class warriors) but it is NOT OK for the opposition to promote their own narratives? Double standard! Of course to the reds, ONLY the reds are allowed to make that charge.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Jingthing