Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[RussellHantz]

Update:

AFP: Myanmar opposition leader Suu Kyi says Thailand's political crisis shows that constitution drawn up by military can never deliver stability

She nailed it.

Abhisit is holding his ground on "principle" but hasn't got a leg to stand on.

[misterjag]

Abhisit was legally elected under Thai law, so why should he dissolve the house just to please a minority of the population. The Reds are mercenaries and this is nothing to do with democracy, but all to do with Thaksin.

Cheers, Rick

The Thai constitution and Abhisit's government were created by anti-democratic coup plotters.

[Screws]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

No doubt were you PM you would always carry a white flag and BYOV - bring your own vaseline.

One of the jobs of a PM is to stand up to the self declared enemies of the state.

[phuketrichard]

this could all be ended peacefully even if Abhisit has rejected their offer, ( which in my mind was correct, one does not deal with terrorists)

Taksin is causing the Thais to fight Thais but his ego and last ditch effort to return wont allow him to stop it.

They shoud have hired the Israelis to come in and do the cleanup, 1 hour and it would be over.

[MamsMitch]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

You are correct. Simply by definition they are Terrorist.... aslo committing Treason.

[bkkbrad]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

Nope, that would be the other guy, Thaksin.

I concur. Thaksin is very stubborn. He could call this off tonight, but won't because he is desperate to return to Thailand at any cost.

Cheers, Rick

Seems to me that Thaksin is saying 'If I can't have Thailand, then no one can' and he is determined to ruin what he can never have.

[BKjohn]

It's looking like Kent State all over again.......1970 riot over a US planned Cambodia invasion when upset students looted, threw rocks and bottles, and otherwise taunted the police and military for a few days.

Result - 4 dead and one paralyzed for life as national guard fired rounds over a few seconds. The riot ended, but marred the country for quite some time.

If this event can be etched in the memory of nearly all Americans after 40 years, imagine what the latest incidents (and incidents yet to come) will do to the small country of Thailand.

This is a pretty stupid quote - there is a huge difference between bottles and rocks to M79 grenades, RPG's and AK47's

[personchester]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

No, that is not the case, people will be aware of who fights the army when it comes to confrontations again.

This is being done by the red leadership in order to ensure that when it comes to violent street confrontations again, the army will not be able to identify it's enemy, since the red shirts follow the concept of the Trojan Horse, and the army will be aware of the fact that it's non-uniformed opposition could be anywhere around them, a very difficult situation indeed, let's hope therefore that negotiations can be resumed and continued in order to solve the political impasse.

[traderjm]

I have to agree with GM here. It's not our problem. To Traderjm, have you gone for your Thai citizenship yet? If so, I take my agreement back. Simply having a Thai wife and children doesn't make this your problem. I realize it's inconvenient for you but if you're still holding a passport from your native country, it's not your problem. Not sure I qualify for properly invested status but I lived here 7 years. Executive director of the Thai branch of an American software company. No wife nor children. And staying out of the Thais squabbling....

"Simply" having a thai wife and children born in Thailand that carry a thai passport makes it NOT my problem? Interesting point of view. I have not taken the step to get my RP as my wife and I have decided to leave Thailand we do not want to raise our children here anymore. I have an office within a five minute walk of the station that was bombed (by whomever) on another night that could have been me killed instead of that poor woman.. leaving a widow and fatherless kids behind seems to me like it does make it my problem..

I can promise you if YOU had a Thai wife and children born here you would not be staying out of it, it effects your family, your employees your children and their future... I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

As I said we are making plans to leave now, not a step we wanted to take but MY WIFE said she can't take it anymore to see her people act this way towards each other and does not want our sons growing up in this society.. that makes it my problem and makes me very sad as well.

[noel2499rk]

It's hard to negotiate with terrorists.

Bravo.

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Fight terror with terror.

The British army tried that in Northern Ireland and failed. The apartheid regime tried it in South Africa and failed. The French tried that in Algeria and failed. It doesn't work my friend.

And your silly examples do not have any bearing on what is happening here now. I realize you do not understand that as you obviously have no knowledge about the situations now and before in the countries you mentioned.

I was answering Andrewbkk's point to fight terror with terror, and suggesting that this doesn't work I wasn't relating that to the current situation at all because I do not believe the reds to be terrorists.

If you believe that you can defeat terrorists with terror I would be happy to disagree with you, thank you, my friend.

[hugocnx]

Indeed Dobadoy. It is obvious that you never were in the army.

IndoSiam's indea is not that bad and even too new for the red shirts.

Now the red shirts even abandon their own colour for obvious reson, the army can come in on motor sai as they are one of 'them'

Actually I am sorry Indo revealed this possible strategy.

[Trebelone]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Dont talk so much rubbish,i have spoken to many ex pats and they mostly say Thaskin was ok,maybe he was a thief but try to name a handful in high office that arent..they closed down the reds t.v channel and the government one churns out more made up rubbish daily,the army is supposed to be there to protect the people not over throw the government,otherwise Mr Brown would have long been over thrown in the uk..

[bubblegum]

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed," he said."

There was already blood spilled you moron !

[way2muchcoffee]

Update:

AFP: Myanmar opposition leader Suu Kyi says Thailand's political crisis shows that constitution drawn up by military can never deliver stability

She may be on to something. So fix the constitution. Write it with input from citizens, business leaders, social activists, NGOs, military, police, judges, lawyers, politicians, civil servants, academics, all political parties etc. After all parties agree, hold a referendum to let all the people decide. Then dissolve parliament and hold elections.

[bf2002]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Yes, and we know why this govt, formed by a alliance of minority groups after the courts invalidated the elected party's majority, is so resistant to elections and now to a poll.

It is not like the Democrats originally came into power with a military coup and then a court decision, totally circumventing the public's votes, is it?

At best, the Democrats, military coup leaders, and yellows are right about Thaksin, but they chose to fight him using the same corrupt tactics. At worst, they are the real problem.

In either case, their coup and subsequent attempts to override the populist vote proves they are not after democracy.

They (coup military leaders) broke the law with the coup and them rewrote the law to give themselves amnesty.

They (yellows) used mass demonstrations to force a legitimately elected government (Samak) to hold an election.

They used the courts for political reasons to invalidate the majority of pro-Thaksin PMs to get Abhisit into power.

And now they are hypocritically saying the Red's demonstrations are wrong and the reds are criminals....speaking of hypocrisy.

The Democrats and yellow are a joke. Everything they say are lies. If Thaksin was bad, then these people are just evil judging by their actions. Claims of good intentions, or even good intentions with these evil and manipulative actions shows who is really the more desperate and corrupt group here.

[george]

Update:

PM rejects Red Shirt proposal to dissolve House in 30 days

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Saturday rejected the anti-government 'Red Shirts' revised demand that he dissolve Parliament in 30 days, instead of immediately, saying that the government would not bow to intimidation and that a dissolution of the House was not the way out of Thailand's problems.

Mr Abhisit said the government was reviewing the options from various sectors and he believed that society wanted to see that any political decision such as the decision to dissolve the lower house of Parliament must be done for the interest of the entire country.

"Using force, intimidation, violence to get a political answer is not acceptable. Demanding or lodging an ultimatum to dissolve the House in 30 days is not the issue. I reject, I cannot acceptthe demand to dissolve Parliament within 30 days," he said.

The anti-government 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) announced Friday that it is ready to end its demonstration and hold a third round of talks with the government if the PM agrees to its three conditions -- dissolve Parliament in 30 days, appoint an independent panel to probe the April 10 and April 22 incidents and stop intimidating the protesters.

It said the latest proposal was aimed to “prevent the loss of more lives.”

The premier said he did not see that the format of the previous two rounds of talks between the government and UDD could reach solution but now there should be multilateral talks, participated by all stakeholders.

The UDD latest proposal was seen as an attempt to 'build image' for foreign countries as he had previously said many times that the demand to dissolve House in 15 days or 30 days could not be a final answer.

"Threatening to intensify their campaign, and step up violence if the government rejects their demand is not acceptable," he added.

Meanwhile, the Red Shirts braced for a crackdown to end their demonstration at Ratchaprasong intersection after the prime minister rejected the offer.

Red Shirt leader Veera Musikapong said he was sad that Mr Abhisit rejected the UDD demand after they have two rounds of negotiation. This meant that the prime minister opted to use force against the protesters.

Nattawut Saikua, a Red Shirt leader, said on the stage that the protesters who would come to join the rally in Bangkok and its supporters nationwide to take off their red shirts and become 'plainclothes warriors' to fight against the government.

He said the goverment was trying every means to stop Red Shirt supporters to join the rally, therefore the demonstrator should change their cloth to other colours, hide their clapping feet, and cover their campaign stickers bearing word 'Dissolve the House'.

The red shirts will be worn again when the group wins, he said.

Another UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan threatened the troops and police in the buildings around Ratchaprasong to leave their buildings, otherwise the Red Shirt would 'invite' them to leave.

He said that according to the information he received, Mr Abhisit has ordered a crackdown on protesters within 48 hours or not later than 5pm on Monday.

He said if the government began using force to disperse the protesters, its supporters nationwide would start their campaign against the government freely, using any measures they deem appropriate.

In a related development, the Multi-Coloured Group who support the prime minister and oppose the House dissolution, rallied Saturday evening at Chatuchak Park in Bangkok,

Tul Sittisomwong, a rally organiser, urged the government to reject the Red Shirt demand because it was a like intimidation.

He had the government seven days to find solution to end the political crisis. If the government does not find a way out of the deadlock by April 30, the group would rally to press the government.

However, the venue will be announced later as the group must evaluate the situation and seek the participants' joint decision.

The group is composed of middle-class Bangkok residents, academics, the business community and members of the social network Facebook.

Since Songkran they have gathered in various locations every evening to show their powerful support for the prime minister and against the dissolution of Parliament.

The group would hold prayers at the Emerald Buddha Temple Sunday morning and gather at the Victory Monument in the evening.

-- TNA 2010-04-24

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[shunima]

I wonder what would be done if this demonstration happened in the London, New York or any other major western countries financial districts.

I do know for sure that there would be violence and the police would go in mob handed with gas, water, tazers and large wooden clubs beating anyone who dares to defy their orders to comply.

I guess in the end it all comes down to how much the demonstrators believe in their cause.

I think these demonstrators do truly believe in their cause so I think it's inevitable that there will be large scale trouble.

...guess it didn't cross your mind that in the cities you mentioned the mob usually leaves the propelled grenades and automatic rifles at home. You can't compare situations when armed lunatics write the script.

[elcent]

Art 9:45 pm Friday night I was walking back home to On-Nut from Emporium, on the south side of Sukhumvit. Just before I got to the point opposite Major Ekkamai, I saw a very strange event. At a point where there is a very wide entranceway (almost like a large parking lot) into some sort of government property (with a large arch overhead, with Thai lettering), I saw what I believe was a military rehearsal drill. There were about fifty motorcycles - each carrying two military policeman. I say that because they wore blue military uniforms, with green camouflage flak vests, and blue or black shiny lacquer helmets, with a thick horizontal white band painted around the base - and black lettering - some sort of Thai abbreviation. I'm guessing that they were air force police. Anyway, they were practicing - two men to each motorcycle, with the man riding pillion carrying two weapons - one M-16, and one shotgun (obviously, the guys in back were carrying the weapon of the driver). I think I got there at the end - they were just pulling out onto Sukhumvit, headed toward Thonglor, in a formation of motorcycles, two abreast, in the curb lane. I think there were two commanders - who were dressed slightly differently, each on his own motorcycle - which were larger than the the two-man bikes - and these two had just sidearm pistols. They stayed behind a minute when the rest moved out - and one of them smiled to me as I walked past, right next to him.

I've been an Infantry company commander - and I could sense that they were not going into a fight that night - but I think the were doing a full-dress rehearsal.

So - when the action unfolds (tonight?) to deal with the protesters, I predict it will lead off with platoons of military police on motorcycles moving in very fast, around the Red Shirt barricades (on the sidewalk?), to penetrate deep, very quickly. To me, that means a "snatch" mission - they will go straight to capture the leadership, without having to hurt any innocent people.

I also predict that 60 seconds before the motorcycle cavalry reaches the Red front lines, some advance scouts will "take out" the Red guards near the barricades. Thus allowing a "surgical" strike against the Red command group.

Good plan.

These are normally in action when curfew is imposed.

[ironhut]

It's looking like Kent State all over again.......1970 riot over a US planned Cambodia invasion when upset students looted, threw rocks and bottles, and otherwise taunted the police and military for a few days.

Result - 4 dead and one paralyzed for life as national guard fired rounds over a few seconds. The riot ended, but marred the country for quite some time.

If this event can be etched in the memory of nearly all Americans after 40 years, imagine what the latest incidents (and incidents yet to come) will do to the small country of Thailand.

This is a pretty stupid quote - there is a huge difference between bottles and rocks to M79 grenades, RPG's and AK47's

Again......it's about the crackdown and the result of the crackdown. People won't remember what the rioters threw...but will certainly remember if/when the government kills rioters.

Often the population believes a severe crackdown is in order when protesters are happening against a government, but those same believers change their minds when someone is killed during the operation. Same or worse will happen in Thailand.

My comments were not stupid.

[kentucky]

I for one join in with the protesters

Good luck to you.

[yang123]

The aim of all terrorists, regardless of 'color', is to use violence to

- provoke a government into over-reaction (thus alienating the uncommitted),

- demonstrate a government's incapacity to manage security (thus prompting demands for change in government)

- increase external pressure on a government to make concessions.

All successful terrorists have had an armed wing and a 'nice to be nice' political wing to manipulate the media and public opinion. By those standards, the Reds are doing well strategically as well as tactically. The terrorist script calls for a huge outrage, and I'm not going to go into what that could be: stand back and use your own memories; Thailands heaves with targets for that.

Tiananmen 1989: remember 'the Chinese People's Liberation Army will never fire on the Chinese people'.....

[Ex-military and hate terrorists of ALL colors.]

Edited April 24, 2010 by yang123

[exalll]

One who is so puffed-up with himself that he believes that he can rule without the consent of the populace.

Simply repeating untruths over and over again does not turn them into truths. The valid mandate of the current government has been explained in suitably simple terms on many occasions.

However, your description does ring a bell. Someone so puffed up with himself he believed he could rule without the consent of the populace, or at least who believed that it was so obvious he should rule that he perverted all the checks and balances of democratic institutions to ensure he could continue to rule.

Valid?..what makes that mandate valid? Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments. At the very least, this is undemocratic and this is indeed unacceptable by not just one or two natives of Thailand, but thousands.

OK, so you are obviously happy just repeating untruths. Whatever turns you on. But I hope you don't think you are convincing anyone

[dobadoy]

But if an army attacks its own people the people have the right to retaliate with everything they have.

Subtstitute 'army' with 'red shirts' in your above statement (Sala Daeng grenade), then you have just argued for the right to have the red shirts put down in the most foreceable way possible (which is not somethign I'm advocating, but your logic sucks).

Re the grenade attack I have an open mind as to who fired it and from where. The Government

say they have proof the Red shirts fired it from Lumpini park captured on BTS cctv. That being the case

don't they have an obligation to release said video.

Open minds are good, so let's explore the alternatives. If it wasn't the red shirts showing intolerance and indignation at the anti-reds confronting them (the previous night, anti-reds and reds threw bottles and stones at each other, till the reds threw molotovs and the anti-reds ran away), then presumably you mean it was some pro-gov't groups trying to instigate a 'crackdown' on the reds?

As some MP said the other day, the problem with the reds claims that all these bombings are done by anti-reds of some flavour of another, is that its never the reds that actually get bombed. While I take the point that attacking one's own side and claiming it was the other is a recognised propaganda tactic, I've never heard of this tactic being used by a group that doesn't EVER actually attack the side it is fighting. Too incredulous, sorry.

[bangkokrick]

Abhisit was legally elected under Thai law, so why should he dissolve the house just to please a minority of the population. The Reds are mercenaries and this is nothing to do with democracy, but all to do with Thaksin.

Cheers, Rick

The Thai constitution and Abhisit's government were created by anti-democratic coup plotters.

That is incorrect and you should know it. Google it if you have a problem understanding the election process.

Cheers, Rick

[Dradam]

The Red Shirts are getting sympathy from foreign media. They are the poor class who are fighting for their right to vote against a government that came to power through the help of a military rebellion. The red shirts are demanding a democratic election and the dissolution of a corrupt government.

It seems a foregone conclusion that if there is a democratic election that the current government would be voted out. There is talk about ways of minimizing the votes of the poor. The rich and middle class do not want another government chosen by the poor. Sounds like an anti-democratic stance.

If bloodshed results, Abhisit is done. If there is no bloodshed, his chances are slim to none. He might as well pack his bags and allow an election. He's pretty much gone either way. He is not going to be able to cling to his PM seat more than a few months anyway.

Bloodshed is a bad idea. The red shirts are not a small minority. THere is an undercurrent of support for them throughout Thailand and even internationally. If they take off the red shirts and continue the struggle, the situation will worsen fast and tragically.

Violence is never the solution. Whatever can be done to avoid violence is absolutely crucial for both sides.

[Skywalker69]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

They have really asked for it, and all this because on greedy "bastard"

[gemini81]

I have to agree with GM here. It's not our problem. To Traderjm, have you gone for your Thai citizenship yet? If so, I take my agreement back. Simply having a Thai wife and children doesn't make this your problem. I realize it's inconvenient for you but if you're still holding a passport from your native country, it's not your problem. Not sure I qualify for properly invested status but I lived here 7 years. Executive director of the Thai branch of an American software company. No wife nor children. And staying out of the Thais squabbling....

"Simply" having a thai wife and children born in Thailand that carry a thai passport makes it NOT my problem? Interesting point of view. I have not taken the step to get my RP as my wife and I have decided to leave Thailand we do not want to raise our children here anymore. I have an office within a five minute walk of the station that was bombed (by whomever) on another night that could have been me killed instead of that poor woman.. leaving a widow and fatherless kids behind seems to me like it does make it my problem..

I can promise you if YOU had a Thai wife and children born here you would not be staying out of it, it effects your family, your employees your children and their future... I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

As I said we are making plans to leave now, not a step we wanted to take but MY WIFE said she can't take it anymore to see her people act this way towards each other and does not want our sons growing up in this society.. that makes it my problem and makes me very sad as well.

I live in quite a similar situation, but we won't let them scare us or intimidate us to the point of leaving the country. Then they win.

[jope]

One who is so puffed-up with himself that he believes that he can rule without the consent of the populace.

Simply repeating untruths over and over again does not turn them into truths. The valid mandate of the current government has been explained in suitably simple terms on many occasions.

However, your description does ring a bell. Someone so puffed up with himself he believed he could rule without the consent of the populace, or at least who believed that it was so obvious he should rule that he perverted all the checks and balances of democratic institutions to ensure he could continue to rule.

Valid?..what makes that mandate valid? Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments. At the very least, this is undemocratic and this is indeed unacceptable by not just one or two natives of Thailand, but thousands.

Couldn't agree more!!! This is purely about democracy and democratic rights. I am always surprised how much support and 'understanding' dictators (I still dare to call them so) have.

[whiterussian]

Abhisit was legally elected under Thai law, so why should he dissolve the house just to please a minority of the population. The Reds are mercenaries and this is nothing to do with democracy, but all to do with Thaksin.

Cheers, Rick

The Thai constitution and Abhisit's government were created by anti-democratic coup plotters.

That is incorrect and you should know it. Google it if you have a problem understanding the election process.

Cheers, Rick

Just googled it and it came out with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

Despite being the junta's target for suppression, the PPP managed to win 226 out of 480 of the MP seats, close to controlling the majority in the House of Representatives. The Democrat Party came in a distant second with 166 seats,

junta? A council; a convention; a tribunal; an assembly; especially, the grand council of state in Spain; The ruling council of a military dictatorship

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/junta

------

should I google something else?

If Thaksin wants to make a republic, the constitution needs to ensure that doesn't happen, and that the military will defend the constitution... but the chances of Thaksin becoming 'President'? Thailand would have lost it's soul by then anyway... the war would be too intense, it would take forever to recover.. Best way is to establish a decent voting system, that has enough checks to stop abuse of power... and that isn't going to come about by having the show run by guys with big tanks... just too tempting to steamroller over political movements, however misguided they may be. The Thai's need to feel failed politicians actions, otherwise they will keep voting for the 'short time' dollar... and the first step to that is stop having f'ing coups!

Edited April 24, 2010 by whiterussian

[Jockey]

My support goes out fully to these brave and fun loving red shirt protesters. All they ask for is a fair election to decide who runs the country. The elite should not hold on to power hiding behind the apron of the army. Power to the ordinary people. An election ASAP is the only obvious and fair answer.