Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[erobando]

Just googled it and it came out with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

Despite being the junta's target for suppression, the PPP managed to win 226 out of 480 of the MP seats, close to controlling the majority in the House of Representatives. The Democrat Party came in a distant second with 166 seats,

junta? A council; a convention; a tribunal; an assembly; especially, the grand council of state in Spain; The ruling council of a military dictatorship

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/junta

------

should I google something else?

Those numbers are correct.

Since the by-elections of Jan 2009, the PTP has 189 MP's.

Bhumjaithai (friends of Newin Group) has 32.

Check out the math. 189 + 32 = 121, which is very close to 126.

The number of former PPP'ers is about the same.

BJT defected and backed a Democrat-led coation. Other former PPP coalition partners went with them.

The PTP's problem was that they couldn't keep their party or coalition partners.

Parliaments don't get dissolved because some protest group requests it.

They get dissolved following a No Confidence vote, which hasn't happened yet.

[kuffki]

Just a question to all the RED supporters on TV

What is it that you support and how would any change in the government change your life?

Do you support democracy? or you support that poor must have more rights?

How do you think your life would change if government changed? Do you really believe new government will bring more democracy? or make poor not poor? or educate them?

Thaksin has 8 years and what did he do to educated the poor? did he make them less poor?

Not to mention Thaksins 8 years were in time of world prosperity, so you can not claim he did an excellent job running the country(every country in the world was peaking economically)

Taking city and its people as a hostage is not a fight for democracy it is straight out terrorism.

[personchester]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Yes, it is well known that over-educated people (Oxbridge) lose their common sense, as a result they are no longer street smart, and this creates negative results for politicians.

[Jockey]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Jockey

[ianf]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Dont talk so much rubbish,i have spoken to many ex pats and they mostly say Thaskin was ok,maybe he was a thief but try to name a handful in high office that arent..they closed down the reds t.v channel and the government one churns out more made up rubbish daily,the army is supposed to be there to protect the people not over throw the government,otherwise Mr Brown would have long been over thrown in the uk..

Actually Thaksin was not OK. He was responsible for thousands of deaths through extra-judicial killings; that he was a thief was bad enough but a thief on what scale? Whilst claiming to be on the side of the poor he NEVER delivered any meaningful policy that would begin to change the lot of the poor. He also stole huge amounts of money from the country that could have been used to set up intelligent programmes for the poor. He released credit lines which enabled villagers, farmers and so on to buy motorbikes etc on hire purchase, he set up a system that enabled villagers to get loans from their tambons and moo bahns and so on. The net result of this was a rise in consumer spending based on credit but as there was no consistent income to back up this credit the result was/is massive debts for the poor. The extra judicial killings were violations of every level of human rights; this was a so-called war on drug dealers....but that is not what happened.

No, Thaksin was/is a greedy, dangerous person who overstepped the mark by some considerable margin. I suspect that the farangs that you have spoken to are the same cynics who dismiss all politicians (in the UK) as people out for themselves when this is far from the truth.

I've used the word fascist here and I do not use it lightly. As I have said in previous posts the parallels between the rise of the national socialist (nazi) movement in prewar Germany and the antics of the red leaders are remarkably similar. And Thaksin is their head honcho.

I place Thaksin in the same bag as Pinochet, Mugabe, Marcos, Amin and so on. If Thaksin had remained in power I have no doubt that we would be comparing him to Pol Pot, Hitler etc

Edited April 24, 2010 by ianf

[Insight]

The Red Shirts are getting sympathy from foreign media. They are the poor class who are fighting for their right to vote against a government that came to power through the help of a military rebellion. The red shirts are demanding a democratic election and the dissolution of a corrupt government.

It seems a foregone conclusion that if there is a democratic election that the current government would be voted out. There is talk about ways of minimizing the votes of the poor. The rich and middle class do not want another government chosen by the poor. Sounds like an anti-democratic stance.

If bloodshed results, Abhisit is done. If there is no bloodshed, his chances are slim to none. He might as well pack his bags and allow an election. He's pretty much gone either way. He is not going to be able to cling to his PM seat more than a few months anyway.

Bloodshed is a bad idea. The red shirts are not a small minority. THere is an undercurrent of support for them throughout Thailand and even internationally. If they take off the red shirts and continue the struggle, the situation will worsen fast and tragically.

Violence is never the solution. Whatever can be done to avoid violence is absolutely crucial for both sides.

You may be right on many of these points, though in my long experience of this country the biggest shame of it is that Abhisit is the least corrupt leader this country is ever likely to see, and he was actually making slow but sure headway into solving this country's problems till this recent Thaksin-financed uprising.

I think that's why so many of us long-termers with Thai family and/or businesse here are against the reds - along with a hatred of their bully-boy intimidation tactics, more of which are revealed in the last news post up above - regardless of the past, how he came to power and what rights or wrong have been committed on ALL sides, there was genuine change in the air over the last year or so (free education for the entire school curriculum being one of the many good policies he's already introduced). Maybe that's why so many of the really wealthy reds want to see him out - its precisely the kind of real change they don't want to happen.

Sad and ironic. Whoever comes next will not be nearly so competent or so clean.

Exactly and then some. The red shirt stage has been full of fiery revolutionary rhetoric and spurious facts, the actions of the Phua Thai party must look like an absolute joke to even the most apolitical observers, yet the majority of responses from the Democrats have been incredibly calmed and measured in comparison. The "terrorist" label may of raised a few eyebrows but I agree with it, as do friends and colleagues.

[BKjohn]

Art 9:45 pm Friday night I was walking back home to On-Nut from Emporium, on the south side of Sukhumvit. Just before I got to the point opposite Major Ekkamai, I saw a very strange event. At a point where there is a very wide entranceway (almost like a large parking lot) into some sort of government property (with a large arch overhead, with Thai lettering), I saw what I believe was a military rehearsal drill. There were about fifty motorcycles - each carrying two military policeman. I say that because they wore blue military uniforms, with green camouflage flak vests, and blue or black shiny lacquer helmets, with a thick horizontal white band painted around the base - and black lettering - some sort of Thai abbreviation. I'm guessing that they were air force police. Anyway, they were practicing - two men to each motorcycle, with the man riding pillion carrying two weapons - one M-16, and one shotgun (obviously, the guys in back were carrying the weapon of the driver). I think I got there at the end - they were just pulling out onto Sukhumvit, headed toward Thonglor, in a formation of motorcycles, two abreast, in the curb lane. I think there were two commanders - who were dressed slightly differently, each on his own motorcycle - which were larger than the the two-man bikes - and these two had just sidearm pistols. They stayed behind a minute when the rest moved out - and one of them smiled to me as I walked past, right next to him.

I've been an Infantry company commander - and I could sense that they were not going into a fight that night - but I think the were doing a full-dress rehearsal.

So - when the action unfolds (tonight?) to deal with the protesters, I predict it will lead off with platoons of military police on motorcycles moving in very fast, around the Red Shirt barricades (on the sidewalk?), to penetrate deep, very quickly. To me, that means a "snatch" mission - they will go straight to capture the leadership, without having to hurt any innocent people.

I also predict that 60 seconds before the motorcycle cavalry reaches the Red front lines, some advance scouts will "take out" the Red guards near the barricades. Thus allowing a "surgical" strike against the Red command group.

Good plan.

These are normally in action when curfew is imposed.

It could also be that the army command line gets toughened, which could mean that anybody down the command line within the army will be immediately arrested or even shot when somebody in between tries to jam the orders.

The way to reduce casualties and collateral damage would be to send in Helicopters dropping a mix of CS and CN gas - the troops must wear NBC gear of course - once the gas takes effect (works instantly) they move in in one massive swoop and disarm the terrorists. Trucks should be ready to carry the lots to a deco camp where the farmers can be separated from the terrorists and send home while they can deal with the terrorists including their leader by putting them at a wall and shooting the lot

Edited April 24, 2010 by BKjohn

[Scepisle]

Looks like I may finally be able to afford that condo in Thailand...

[Jingthing]

Keep in mind. Some of the pro red posters here are Thai. Nothing wrong with that. Some are Thais posing as foreigners. Something wrong with that. Some are off in Europe and have no skin in the game about what happens in Thailand. I find something wrong with that, you may disagree. I won't emphasize the probability that there may be red/Thaksin operatives posting here. Internationally targeted propaganda is very important to the Thaksin movement and they have been rather good at it.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[Insight]

Driving towards Bang Bua Tong last night from The Mall there were about 50 red shirt pickup trucks parked up at Northaburi - think it was the ThaiCom base station, but unaware of where exactly that is.

Thaicom HQ is on Rattanathibet Road, which is Ngamwongwan Road closer in to the city. So- if you were heading outbound from the Mall Ngamwongwan, that was definitely Thaicom.

Thanks Bino. Google Maps also indicated the Thaicom station was it in that area, it just didn't seem apparent from the outside.

[LevelHead]

For those wanting a crackdown please think of the possible consequence.

The US army today is still battling against insurgents.

They had the great idea of using military force and putting in their own "desired" leader.

The people were against it.

Thailand, the military has by its control by the Elite removed the elected government of TRT and put in place, finally, its desired leader Abhisit.

The people do not want it.

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

Is that what you want to see ? If that what you wish for ?

An insurgency is very easy to run and its impossible to put down. Just ask the USA.

So, as despicable as any threat maybe, if it happens to pass that the crackdown happens and so an insurgency is started it would be easy for Reds to link up with Southern separatists and move the fight from the South right into Central Bangkok.

Think carefully, for your dreams might deliver something you thought was only in nightmares.

I think Anupong knows this and is keeping a cool head, whilst Abhisit and Suthep remain the loose canons who are out of control and demanding the Police and Army do this and that. Suthep demanding yesterday the police do more, today Abhisit demands a crackdown. They are loose canons and in my view, complete idiots.

Negotiation is the way out of this, but Abhisit is in my view being pig headed and a complete fool, he is a loose canon but you can expect no more given the allegations of "bloody hands" now.

[animatic]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Main issue is not his arrogance, not his intelligence, nor even his common sense....

they just expected him to act like a Thai, and he DIDN'T!]

Must have been quite confusing for many of them....

He acted like a national leader would be expected to act most anywhere else.

And there is the problem he's Thai but his education bred much of the raw roots out of him.

Animatic, reach for the smelling salts.I fully agree with you.

The sky is falling...

Who came first Chicken Little or The Egg.

First time for everything.

[dobadoy]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

I saw someone earlier nominating another post for displaying the (to say it politely) "grossest misunderstanding" of the situation by anyone on either side, but no -really - this one takes the biscuit. Surely even levelhead and grandpops would look away in embarrassment at this one (BTW, where are our two esteemed 'intellectuals' tonight??)

Edited April 24, 2010 by dobadoy

[Jingthing]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

The red shirts are most certainly NOT a non-violent protest movement. Nobody really believes that anymore, even the pro reds trying to sell that lie. Edited April 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[BKjohn]

Keep in mind. Some of the pro red posters here are Thai. Nothing wrong with that. Some are Thais posing as foreigners. Something wrong with that. Some are off in Europe and have no skin in the game about what happens in Thailand. I won't emphasize the probability that there are paid red/Thaksin operatives probably posting here. Internationally targeted propaganda is very important to the Thaksin movement.

They are easy to spot though with there totally BS posts

[noel2499rk]

Keep in mind. Some of the pro red posters here are Thai. Nothing wrong with that. Some are Thais posing as foreigners. Something wrong with that. Some are off in Europe and have no skin in the game about what happens in Thailand. I won't emphasize the probability that there are paid red/Thaksin operatives probably posting here. Internationally targeted propaganda is very important to the Thaksin movement.

Thaksin comes round my house in Fiji twice a month sucks me off and gives me 100 usd. How did you know Jingthing.

[kuffki]

Keep in mind. Some of the pro red posters here are Thai. Nothing wrong with that. Some are Thais posing as foreigners. Something wrong with that. Some are off in Europe and have no skin in the game about what happens in Thailand. I won't emphasize the probability that there are paid red/Thaksin operatives probably posting here. Internationally targeted propaganda is very important to the Thaksin movement.

With some comments that are coming out, you can be sure of paid operatives.

[kalbo123]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Why are the Reds destroying Thailand???? Thailand is more than just Bangkok. Since when can't people travel to their capitol to petition a complaint? That practice is centuries old.

Two years ago the Yellow Shirts did a pretty good job of shutting down Bangkok, also.

Heck, if I had a business in downtown BKK, I'd be peeved also, but obviously there's a (class) problem in the country since this divisiveness has been going on for ten years.

People in the provinces keeping electing officials and people in Bangkok keep throwing them out of office.

Taksin, ethics not withstanding, had done more for the rural people in 4 years than any other entity has done in sixty years - healthcare, roads, education, electricity, subsidizing loans so that almost every farmer owned a brand new pick-up, etc.

I've been coming to Thailand since 1974, and the changes between 2000 and 2005 were dramatic.

Of course there are claims the Red Shirts are paid to go to BKK and stand in the street. But it goes a little deeper. Rural people are sick and tired of being told to go back to their farms, till their fields, and keep their mouths shut.

You must remember that the people in the rural provinces were so alienated, that there were still strong communist movements throughout the north and northeast until the early 80's (most national parks are former communist strongholds).

With the possible exception of Abhisit, corruption is generally a part of every administration, every entitiy. Taksin was certainly no angel (national campaign against drugs) and the guy just doesn't get it that at this point he's old product. Taksin is a ralllying point for the Reds. If there are new elections, the Reds will win, the Yellows with find a way to dispose of the new administration. The circle continues, like groundhog day.

The elite in BKK can't continue to ignore the provinces (the ethnic Isaan speaking population is larger than the central Thailand.

Almost everyone is afraid to sit down and get to what many percieve to be the core of the problem, because they can be thrown in jail for discussing it.

But hey, what do I know....

What do you know? Hey, I think you know quite a lot. Nice post. People have to realise that this is quite a complex issue. Taksin isn't wonderful but he did help the Isaan people; the reds aren't all perfect but they do represent a lot of poor people in Thailand.

very good post!

[Jimi007]

The Red Shirts are getting sympathy from foreign media. They are the poor class who are fighting for their right to vote against a government that came to power through the help of a military rebellion. The red shirts are demanding a democratic election and the dissolution of a corrupt government.

It seems a foregone conclusion that if there is a democratic election that the current government would be voted out. There is talk about ways of minimizing the votes of the poor. The rich and middle class do not want another government chosen by the poor. Sounds like an anti-democratic stance.

If bloodshed results, Abhisit is done. If there is no bloodshed, his chances are slim to none. He might as well pack his bags and allow an election. He's pretty much gone either way. He is not going to be able to cling to his PM seat more than a few months anyway.

Bloodshed is a bad idea. The red shirts are not a small minority. THere is an undercurrent of support for them throughout Thailand and even internationally. If they take off the red shirts and continue the struggle, the situation will worsen fast and tragically.

Violence is never the solution. Whatever can be done to avoid violence is absolutely crucial for both sides.

You may be right on many of these points, though in my long experience of this country the biggest shame of it is that Abhisit is the least corrupt leader this country is ever likely to see, and he was actually making slow but sure headway into solving this country's problems till this recent Thaksin-financed uprising.

I think that's why so many of us long-termers with Thai family and/or businesse here are against the reds - along with a hatred of their bully-boy intimidation tactics, more of which are revealed in the last news post up above - regardless of the past, how he came to power and what rights or wrong have been committed on ALL sides, there was genuine change in the air over the last year or so (free education for the entire school curriculum being one of the many good policies he's already introduced). Maybe that's why so many of the really wealthy reds want to see him out - its precisely the kind of real change they don't want to happen.

Sad and ironic. Whoever comes next will not be nearly so competent or so clean.

Well put. We both know Thaksin's record. So no need to repeat it. Abbisit also gave free school uniforms for those who could not afford them. I used to hear about kids not being allowed to attend school because they didn't have a uniform. Or would go every other day and wear their brother's uniform as the family could only afford one.

[ianf]

For those wanting a crackdown please think of the possible consequence.

The US army today is still battling against insurgents.

They had the great idea of using military force and putting in their own "desired" leader.

The people were against it.

Thailand, the military has by its control by the Elite removed the elected government of TRT and put in place, finally, its desired leader Abhisit.

The people do not want it.

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

Is that what you want to see ? If that what you wish for ?

An insurgency is very easy to run and its impossible to put down. Just ask the USA.

So, as despicable as any threat maybe, if it happens to pass that the crackdown happens and so an insurgency is started it would be easy for Reds to link up with Southern separatists and move the fight from the South right into Central Bangkok.

Think carefully, for your dreams might deliver something you thought was only in nightmares.

I think Anupong knows this and is keeping a cool head, whilst Abhisit and Suthep remain the loose canons who are out of control and demanding the Police and Army do this and that. Suthep demanding yesterday the police do more, today Abhisit demands a crackdown. They are loose canons and in my view, complete idiots.

Negotiation is the way out of this, but Abhisit is in my view being pig headed and a complete fool, he is a loose canon but you can expect no more given the allegations of "bloody hands" now.

Hardly a level headed post and in my humble opinion, way off the mark. But then, what do we know?

Edited April 24, 2010 by ianf

[chadintheusa]

New story on the Nation says that "The Civil Court said Saturday the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations can disperse anti-government protesters now occupying Bangkok's prime business district "if necessary","

What's up with these courts working on a Saturday night?

[elcent]

For those wanting a crackdown please think of the possible consequence.

The US army today is still battling against insurgents.

At least you agree that your buddies are insurgents.

Negotiations? Why? After proof that the red leaders gave order to shoot the army and civilians? - If that would never had happened I could see negotiation. But it were your little Charlie Mansions that refused to talk.

[BlackJack]

The word sedition comes to mind

[dobadoy]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

Ahh, I spoke to soon, there you are.

Hmm, you think that the Reds who are apparently peace-loving, love Thailand, and just want democracy, will bomb people shopping in malls? Is that consistent with what the Reds 'say' they are fighting for? Would love to get the insider story from the red think tank. Bombing shoppers, freedom fighting, democracy, bombing shoppers, freedom fighting, democracy, bombing commuters, sala daeng, democracy, bombing shoppers, intimidation, no concern for anyone except themselves... spot the odd one out.

[traderjm]

I have to agree with GM here. It's not our problem. To Traderjm, have you gone for your Thai citizenship yet? If so, I take my agreement back. Simply having a Thai wife and children doesn't make this your problem. I realize it's inconvenient for you but if you're still holding a passport from your native country, it's not your problem. Not sure I qualify for properly invested status but I lived here 7 years. Executive director of the Thai branch of an American software company. No wife nor children. And staying out of the Thais squabbling....

"Simply" having a thai wife and children born in Thailand that carry a thai passport makes it NOT my problem? Interesting point of view. I have not taken the step to get my RP as my wife and I have decided to leave Thailand we do not want to raise our children here anymore. I have an office within a five minute walk of the station that was bombed (by whomever) on another night that could have been me killed instead of that poor woman.. leaving a widow and fatherless kids behind seems to me like it does make it my problem..

I can promise you if YOU had a Thai wife and children born here you would not be staying out of it, it effects your family, your employees your children and their future... I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

As I said we are making plans to leave now, not a step we wanted to take but MY WIFE said she can't take it anymore to see her people act this way towards each other and does not want our sons growing up in this society.. that makes it my problem and makes me very sad as well.

I live in quite a similar situation, but we won't let them scare us or intimidate us to the point of leaving the country. Then they win.

I personally agree with you but my wife feels that its all fine and dandy to say we will not be chased out of the country on principal but principal will not make a very good husband or father and I think the bombing the other night being on the actual platform that I have taken dozens and dozens of times at that time of night really put a scare into her. Plus in all honesty and completely OT I think the schools here are terrible haha...

[LevelHead]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

The red shirts are most certainly NOT a non-violent protest movement. Nobody really believes that anymore, even the pro reds trying to sell that lie.

Violence begets violence.

Everything was peaceful until Abhisit/Suthep stopped the freedom of the media.

A grossly unfair act of denying media access to all red channels. Unconstitutional and condemned worldwide.

Did they care ?

No.

That event started the violence. When you take basic freedoms away from the people you can expect them to use force to get it back.

And so begins the cycle of violence.

That event was even condemned by some coalition partners. It was the spark to start violence.

Now ask Abhisit and Suthep why they knowingly did this and started this ?

[Insight]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

[kuffki]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

Hmmm

1. Kidnapping of CAT CEO

2. Kidnapping of high ranked police officer

3. Kidnapping or army train with men and weapons

4. Hostile take over of the city.

5. Violent threats to storm shopping malls

6. Grenades causing death

7. Weapons stock piling

8. Destruction of public property

9. Threats of violence and more bombs and grenades.

You are right, this is not terrorism this is would be what? patriotism!

[DP25]

there was genuine change in the air over the last year or so (free education for the entire school curriculum being one of the many good policies he's already introduced). Maybe that's why so many of the really wealthy reds want to see him out - its precisely the kind of real change they don't want to happen.

Definitely. An educated and prosperous electorate is a nightmare scenario for the red elite

[mitrapaap]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

Get a copy of the first meeting between the PM and the reds leaders. If you don't understand Thai have somebody reliable translate it for you. Then you will know on which side of the table the stubborn mules were sitting.