Thai Forces Fire Warning Shots In Standoff With Red Shirts

[elcent]

to all

you better not wish for martial law. It would be extreme. You wouldn't even be able to go online. Here they usually impose marital law with curfew starting about 8pm(-10pm) - 6am. Guess what happens in between. Justice?

[deadsnoopy]

Hmmm I looked ... you modified it. You deleted about 75% of his post and only quoted a partial paragraph. Deleting sections of a post is in fact modifying it ... if you did not modify it then the whole/entire post would be in your quote.

Do you know the definition of a quote? A quote doesn't repeat the entire speech. It's a quote.

didn't modify your post in any way

Answer --- yes you did you deleted over 75% of the post in your quote. Unmodified = remains as printed. You deleted 75% of it.

Where does it say that you can't remove part of a post and quote only a part of it? You're battling a silly argument here. I bet if I went back in your posts, I could find that you did the same thing. So drop it please, it's quite off-topic.

[Trouble]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are ready to accuse, try and convict before they have any evidence. As soon as the news broke of a soldier killed the

cheerleading section breaks out in full song. Several channels are now reporting that the soldier did indeed die as a result of friendly fire. It's not in anyway clear one way or the other, but what the hel_l is the matter with you people? Can't you wait until you know before you shoot your mouths off. Al Jazeera had a "report" of people with "hand guns" but they could have been anybody from red splinter group people to undercover police, local gangsters, or whatever. Jumping to conclusions seems to be what we do best on here.

Time will tell who did what.....let's wait and see .....for a change....

I think you are asking a bit much from the posters on ThaiVisa, don't you?

[animatic]

And all this on the day after the government played the equivalent of the race card...(dramatic music, drums rolling)... it's all a big plot to overthrow the monarchy...involving just about every single one person whose politics are not the same as those making the accusations, including the whole of the opposition party (see the big pie chart, afraid I don't have a link but it is from BPundit). At least it got a positive that he was not jumping ship yet, or was he, from that white than white Ghandi figure himself, Khun Newin Chidchob.

And today we have the grenades pulled out the old store cupboard to explain away what is another bad day at the office in which on the first day that live bullets have been officially allowed, the security forces have managed to to take out one their own..(source just about every news outlet going). The grenades were abandoned in a motorbike (all of them), we didn't catch the culprit, it made us nervous that the protestors were angry or there were chaps there of ill-intention, so we decided to call it quits for the day and no, anyone that suggests it was chaos, well that's not fair, it was because of these things here that our chaps gave their usual impression that they could find the old proverbial with two hands...

For all I know all of this is right and true and fair but after the third force, the terrorists, Hitler, the cancer, I am full, im laew, enough, please. I almost appreciate the Reds for just saying they hate the govenemnt, period in a hundred different ways but at least it's consistent.

And before I get the obvious, of course I regret the loss of life.

And that my friends is also maybe a response that comes when the media in country is controlled out of oblivion by the government of the day and yes it was worse under Thaksin.

Here is the chart:...

All it shows is the connections between PTP and UDD and not much more. Thought it does resemble some of the diagrams from the movie A Beautiful Mind.

It's decrepit and pathetic to pull out the old LM charges against all here and to go the time (dis)honored route of claiming a conspiracy in action. Abhisit should be ashamed of himself. So should the Democrat Party. Not much more can be said without getting into trouble.

Well besides this vipers nest of interconnections, and many I hadn't realized.

Still,

• The actual printed red press is quite over the top anti-monarchy

• The red press is controlled by UDD

• The UDD is visibly controlled for years by TRT/PPP/PTP

and PTP is a Thaksin financed and directed vehicle to

- - gain parliamentary power and this control of Cabinet, Army List and Budgets..

• Chaovlit is head of PTP, and made inappropriate requests to involve HRM.

Who pointedly did NOT address Big Jiew's stated points at all during his speech.

Don't really need a corporate flow chart showing much more than that,

the rest is just more of the spiders web of interconnecting allegiances.

This statement is not about LM, but something much more sinister.

Edited April 28, 2010 by animatic

[jcbangkok]

Hmmm I looked ... you modified it. You deleted about 75% of his post and only quoted a partial paragraph. Deleting sections of a post is in fact modifying it ... if you did not modify it then the whole/entire post would be in your quote.

Do you know the definition of a quote? A quote doesn't repeat the entire speech. It's a quote.

Such "modification" as described is 100 percent legit here. You cannot, however, alter the actual words of the quoted writer.

As per the rules:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

Altered "wording" and not words. That means don't EDIT the post at all. Deleting any words would be altered wording.

[TheOldWolf]

" a new generation of honest men and women of genuine conviction and integrety." You are getting 99 points! Abhisit is the new generation! A man who is not interested in money.

Is that why he as the party chairman and his Democrats are currently on trial for corruption charges? Because he's a honest man? A new generation? Not interested in money? (Except for the 258 million Baht in donations they took illegally).

He is not on TRIAL and you are not the court! So let´s wait and see what the court will say.

[Jingthing]

Where does it say that you can't remove part of a post and quote only a part of it? You're battling a silly argument here. I bet if I went back in your posts, I could find that you did the same thing. So drop it please, it's quite off-topic.

It's actually desirable to chop people's text! Edited April 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[TAWP]

The Friendly fire incident

not sure, but could it be that fake soldiers shot army? This looks anything else than friendly fire, sorry.

R.I.P. it's so saddening

It actually does look like friendly fire, and the fact that the army have confirmed that it was friendly fire makes it quite unnecessary to stir up any rumors. We all know the army is doing their best to blame everything on the red shirts, so for the army to come out and actually admit something must mean that there's really no doubt.

This incident is not the lethal one afaik.

[davejonesbkk]

to all

you better not wish for martial law. It would be extreme. You wouldn't even be able to go online. Here they usually impose marital law with curfew starting about 8pm(-10pm) - 6am. Guess what happens in between. Justice?

errr, why would we not be able to go online?

[keepsamuiclean]

" a new generation of honest men and women of genuine conviction and integrety." You are getting 99 points! Abhisit is the new generation! A man who is not interested in money.

Is that why he as the party chairman and his Democrats are currently on trial for corruption charges? Because he's a honest man? A new generation? Not interested in money? (Except for the 258 million Baht in donations they took illegally).

The trial will show - better wait for it.

[animatic]

Hmmm I looked ... you modified it. You deleted about 75% of his post and only quoted a partial paragraph. Deleting sections of a post is in fact modifying it ... if you did not modify it then the whole/entire post would be in your quote.

Do you know the definition of a quote? A quote doesn't repeat the entire speech. It's a quote.

Such "modification" as described is 100 percent legit here. You cannot, however, alter the actual words of the quoted writer.

And the use of ellipses is required ... such as these ...

are also required to show edits have been done either before after or both...

[Jingthing]

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

Altered "wording" and not words. That means don't EDIT the post at all. Deleting any words would be altered wording.

You are completely wrong. Sorry but you should learn. Edited April 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

Where does it say that you can't remove part of a post and quote only a part of it? You're battling a silly argument here. I bet if I went back in your posts, I could find that you did the same thing. So drop it please, it's quite off-topic.

It's actually desirable to chop people's text!

Though I disagree with the policy that's what a mod politely PM'd to me recently. I think chopping down to a sentence you're responding to leaves it out of context and highlighting within the body of the original post is prefererable, but TV policy begs to differ.

[Thai at Heart]

If you are going to call Abhisit exceptionally weak in relation to this martial law powers you need to compare him to other THAI PM's. How things work in other countries is irrelevant to that point.

You fail to realise that the rest of the world when it heard that Thailand was a democracy it believed it was a democracy in the same way that they perceive other democracies.

I.e

a. A head of state either a monarch or an elected president

b. If a monarch for head of state a PM who is elected

c. An army that answers to an elected government or president

The Thai situation vis a vis the army is a peculiarly Thai issue.

The rest of the world outside that the BBC speaks to cannot even name 2 other Thai PM's and have already forgotten Abhisit's name. The rest of the world is not comparing him to other Thai PM's since the level from which Thai PM's is coming is particularly low. All they know now is that he is not in control of his country and is not able to elucidate his point clearly on international TV.

[d0om4gloom]

To confirm, this is the first sentence from the BBC

"One soldier has died, reportedly from a shot fired by a member of the security forces, and at least 10 people have been injured. "

Source: BBC News

Isn't the quality of CNN and BBC going muddy now? I remember the time when things were backed up by pictures/clips. Now they run more on hearsay than facts. They're trying hard to appear different to the mainstream and start cheating like Reuters did years ago.

Shame on them ...

Oh right, so you dont like whats the BBC & CNN are saying so now your casting doubt on their reporting as well. Shame on you ! They are both far more objective and impartial than ANY thai media but up to you if you want to shut your eyes. Finding the truth is hard but the more sources reporting it the closer your likely to get.

[Jingthing]

You have lost me. Abhisit can't change the reality of Thailand for the sake of an international interview. Did you ever hear Abhisit claim that the Thai system has operated the exact same as a mature western democracy? Of course not. He was being honest about the situation. That makes him bad? OK, whatever.

[jdinasia]

" a new generation of honest men and women of genuine conviction and integrety." You are getting 99 points! Abhisit is the new generation! A man who is not interested in money.

Is that why he as the party chairman and his Democrats are currently on trial for corruption charges? Because he's a honest man? A new generation? Not interested in money? (Except for the 258 million Baht in donations they took illegally).

The trial will show - better wait for it.

agreed -- at this point the Dems have not been convicted of anything. I am not sure if Abhisit was a party executive at the time of this alleged offense. If the case is proved and the Dems are convicted then the party should be dissolved and the party executives from the time should be banned for 5 years. However, that case is not likely to be decided this year.

[Insight]

Thai at Heart - reckon Hard Talk, like so many things over the past seven weeks, will just reinforce peoples weighted opinions rather than try and balance them. I thought he did fine (albeit saying what we've heard on here day after day) but the delay didn't do him any favours.

[viking75]

There is a reason why there is a forum rule about editing posts you are responding to. Had you not edited my post, you would be able to answer your questions.

I didn't modify your post in any way. It's a direct quote from your post. Anyone can go back in your post history and look it up themselves.

When you pull one sentence from a multi-paragraphed post and reply to that post (making it look like that is all I said) then you edited the post. This is not debatable .. check with the mods or the forum rules.

you should look at word modify what he did not do. he quoted a bit what he can do.

you check with mods on report button, not try to have somebody banned because not agree with you

maybe he try to ban you for talk about mods on here. please go away if you cannot write and only argue like small boy

[jdinasia]

To confirm, this is the first sentence from the BBC

"One soldier has died, reportedly from a shot fired by a member of the security forces, and at least 10 people have been injured. "

Source: BBC News

Isn't the quality of CNN and BBC going muddy now? I remember the time when things were backed up by pictures/clips. Now they run more on hearsay than facts. They're trying hard to appear different to the mainstream and start cheating like Reuters did years ago.

Shame on them ...

Oh right, so you dont like whats the BBC & CNN are saying so now your casting doubt on their reporting as well. Shame on you ! They are both far more objective and impartial than ANY thai media but up to you if you want to shut your eyes. Finding the truth is hard but the more sources reporting it the closer your likely to get.

Note -- the word "reportedly" in that BBC sentence quoted --- they are repeating not facts, but what someone else has stated. You could just as validly state "The officer was reportedly killed by a redshit"

Edited April 28, 2010 by jdinasia

[animatic]

I'm a little sick of hearing the redshirts this and the redshirts that. This is democracy in motion. If a ruling party refuses to openly compromise then the outcome can be violent. People here are passionate about their country. I admire them for that. They are willing to give their life for what they believe in. You whiners that think your opinion matters are just adding to the problem. The Thai people have a leader they believe is illegitimate and they are acting as such.

Many years ago our countries did the same thing the Thai are doing now. GIVE THEM SOME SLACK!!! Your opinion as a farang means nothing but your trivial rhetoric may create discontent that isn't needed. We are bystanders. Pay some respect and allow the process to come to it's conclusion. It is coming soon. I believe we will have a better country that we are visiting than the one that exists now.

I couldn't agree with you more - and before the rest of you start with your nonsense about my maiden posting let me say that I have been reading this website for a considerable time and been appalled by the political naivete (and the grammar/spelling) of an apparently European/American/Australian website. I am not in any way an expert in Thai politics or history but it is obvious that we are witnessing a similar uprising (led by equally suspect demagogues) to that in Tsarist Russia where the people merely wanted a more equal society and the Bolsheviks claimed to want social revolution. Everyone knows how the Russian experiment with Socialism failed because of the corrupt politicians that too little democracy allows; what I believe could happen in Thailand is that somewhere down the line when the people realise that most politicians are not really interested in their concerns then they will wake up to the idea that universal suffrage means that they have a right to choose. At that point, as in our older democracies and with the same failings, a new political movement may arise led by a new generation of honest men and women of genuine conviction and integrity.

Excellent first post. Welcome to TVF.

[way2muchcoffee]

I understand that the moderators need to be cautious during this time of unrest and sympathize with the difficulties they face doing a thankless job. Since we're no longer permitted to post and discuss news clippings in the General Forum, I thought I'd bring a story to your attention here. Abhisit told the BBC on Tuesday why he won't call for a new election.

Thailand crisis: Red-shirt protesters and troops clash

On Tuesday Mr Abhisit told the BBC that while he wanted a political solution to the crisis, immediate elections were not the answer.

"There is a clear threat that if we hold elections too soon, with the mood running as high in terms of divisions and in terms of tension, elections would turn violent and they would solve nothing and we could be back into this vicious cycle of demonstrations." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8648109.stm

This is one the biggest red herrings in the overall argument for not holding an election in 90 days.

What evidence is there that the yellow shirts have any decent numbers in the support base beyond Bangkok ? I simply don’t believe they have such big numbers! All the yellows and Abhisit do is come with every reason under the sun why there cannot be an election while people are being killed.

But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ? Sure the PAD might put up a fight after they lose ( which they will ) but I am sure they can be contained !

You are wrong. In the 2007 elections the Democrats received a higher percentage of the individual voters than did the PPP.

[jcbangkok]

Ok, finally got to hear all of this BBC interview. I am from the US and no doubt we have some idiot reporters but this women takes the cake. At points I wondered if the program should be called Ignorant Talk as opposed to Hard Talk.

At points she asked some tough questions but she really just came off as a nasty person who doesn't listen, talks over her guests as well as twisting their words. Beyond watching some non-news shows on BBC, this is the first time I can remember listening to anything so odd in terms of an interview. Even when the opposition President goes onto Fox, this kind of nasty and hostile treatment of a leader of a country would be embarrassing. What was even more sad is she is not believable at all. It is clearly some image she is trying to keep and couldn't believe the PM would answer a question very clearly and she would turn around and then say he said something else. Very bizarre.

I do think the PM did very well and again thought some of her questions were tough and good but she seemed to go way off track with the BS she was injecting and then getting upset when the PM felt he needed longer explinations to counter what were simply ignorance (dishonest) in terms of her recapping what he said. There must have been at least 3 or 4 times where the PM said, "No, that is not what I said"

Edit: Also it was clear she really didn't do much background work on the history of what is going on here and seemed to get irritated when the PM made clear she was wrong on certain matters.

Edited April 28, 2010 by jcbangkok

[LevelHead]

Comments section of http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...ional-monument/

Athita // Apr 28, 2010 at 10:44 pm

My friend was driving at Paholyothin road, near Lam Look Ka intersection when the incident took place. He saw many soldiers and riot police were firing bullets to the air, some to the protesters.

Spring News TV ( http://www.springnewstv.com ) is now blocked by the ICT for their live report at the scene claiming the shooting came from the standing soldiers and hit a soilder riding on motorcycle. See picture

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi.../P9183397-0.jpg

BBC also reports the dead soldier was mistakenly shot by another soldier.

I watched live local Thai TPBS, and The Nation, the reporters said the protestors had nothing except rocks, sticks, firecrackers etc.

--------------------------

3Athita // Apr 28, 2010 at 11:01 pm

Additional report,

The dead soldier namedly Private Narongrit Sara was shot to the head. He was riding a motorbike as “rapid unit” toward those standing soldiers. As the situation tensed and it was heavy rain, some said the standing force fired to the poor private.

Another injured innocent motorist, is reported namely as Mr. Komkrit, (some said he works as vegetable delivery at Si Moom Muang Market) was shot by real bullet while he was in his car and treated at ICU in a hospital.

The hospitals nearby report total casualties of 18 in total (mostly civilian, and passing by folks).

[animatic]

There is a reason why there is a forum rule about editing posts you are responding to. Had you not edited my post, you would be able to answer your questions.

I didn't modify your post in any way. It's a direct quote from your post. Anyone can go back in your post history and look it up themselves.

When you pull one sentence from a multi-paragraphed post and reply to that post (making it look like that is all I said) then you edited the post. This is not debatable .. check with the mods or the forum rules.

you should look at word modify what he did not do. he quoted a bit what he can do.

you check with mods on report button, not try to have somebody banned because not agree with you

maybe he try to ban you for talk about mods on here. please go away if you cannot write and only argue like small boy

Nowhere was trying to get him banned even implied let alone stated.

Use ellipses { ...quote ... }and you can reduce text, BUT maintain the TOTAL context of the statement too,

not cherry pick a partial thought, and then twist it away from the obvious context, to make you point.

[LevelHead]

Spring News TV is now blocked from viewers in Thailand as the government bans any media that is not YELLOW and pumping out pure pro-government propaganda.

The Democrats and their Coalition partners are now no better than the Burmese Junta.

[andrewbkk]

it is obvious that we are witnessing a similar uprising to that in Tsarist Russia

No. The uprising here has no relation to what happened in Russia. You are so very very wrong.

Go back and read a little more about history.

[viking75]

Comments section of http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...ional-monument/

Athita // Apr 28, 2010 at 10:44 pm

My friend was driving at Paholyothin road, near Lam Look Ka intersection when the incident took place. He saw many soldiers and riot police were firing bullets to the air, some to the protesters.

Spring News TV ( http://www.springnewstv.com ) is now blocked by the ICT for their live report at the scene claiming the shooting came from the standing soldiers and hit a soilder riding on motorcycle. See picture

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi.../P9183397-0.jpg

BBC also reports the dead soldier was mistakenly shot by another soldier.

I watched live local Thai TPBS, and The Nation, the reporters said the protestors had nothing except rocks, sticks, firecrackers etc.

--------------------------

3Athita // Apr 28, 2010 at 11:01 pm

Additional report,

The dead soldier namedly Private Narongrit Sara was shot to the head. He was riding a motorbike as "rapid unit" toward those standing soldiers. As the situation tensed and it was heavy rain, some said the standing force fired to the poor private.

Another injured innocent motorist, is reported namely as Mr. Komkrit, (some said he works as vegetable delivery at Si Moom Muang Market) was shot by real bullet while he was in his car and treated at ICU in a hospital.

The hospitals nearby report total casualties of 18 in total (mostly civilian, and passing by folks).

Is this burma or korea

[TAWP]

TODAYS PICK: Kwanchai's escape to McDonalds: http://twitpic.com/1j2pkd (Photo by photo_journ)

Kwanchai may have been inspired to make up some new red slogans

We want democracy, and we want fries with that

Mcjobs for everyone

The revolution will be supersized

Well, I laughed.

[jcbangkok]

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

Altered "wording" and not words. That means don't EDIT the post at all. Deleting any words would be altered wording.

You are completely wrong. Sorry but you should learn.

How can I be completely wrong when I copied and pasted the rule and put it in bold without editing (altering) any wording of this particular rule????