Dr Tul Cancels Campaign In Khon Kaen

[plachon]

I've just returned from a visit to a village in rural Sakon Nakhon. The

My main point in raising this is that given this state of affairs, there is little chance in Red villages such as this that there can be free and fair elections in the near future, as a single mob has colonised the minds of the villagers and will not allow alternative voices and points of views to be heard, which was reflected in the actions of the Redshirts in Khon Kaen yesterday and bodes ill, with all the other numerous anti-democratic incidents for the peaceful future of Thailand, Isaan especially. Functional democracy is still a distant dream, I'm afraid.

what is to stop the yellows going to Khon Kaen and winning the hearts and minds of the people there?

The yellows already have all the TV stations! (much of the army, and much of the police (well in theory anyway))

Maybe the yellows dont have a local representative that is 'in' with the voters there... why not??? Maybe they are all in Bangkok!?

Lazy arse excuses more like it! if they want Issan, then buy it, or win it... sour grapes from the junta apologists.

"The end is nigh if the popularly elected respresentatives get elected!" - you saw the same in the UK last time the conservatives got booted out.."there will be blood on the streets (if labour win)" was the headline. <deleted>.

You're clearly not reading the news or perhaps incapable of comprehending it.

What stops other parties (the Yellows are not a party by the way) going into Khon Kaen or other towns in Isaan is the actions of groups of thugs such as Kwanchai allied to Thaksin and his network, by using violence, threats and other means to frighten and intimidate them. Just like happened in Khon Kaen yesterday. I've heard it said on several occasions that the Democrats have always had a tough time establishing party offices in Isaan because of the influence of lawless godfathers, most of whom signed up (read: bought off) with Thaksin's TRT party in 2000-01. As a Thai friend of mine said the other day, "it's still the law of the jungle here" (read Chang Noi's excellent Jungle Book for hints of why).

And to suggest that "the yellows have all the TV stations" and equate the army and police with PAD just shows how out of touch with reality you are.

[LuckyLew]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

The current situation is solely red related and red started

I would be so nice if red leaning posters could actually

post something other than the usual double standard

or PAD did this or that.

[hextac]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

The current situation is solely red related and red started

I would be so nice if red leaning posters could actually

post something other than the usual double standard

or PAD did this or that.

Did you read/understand my post? I'm not red and I was pointing out that PAD apologists currently advocating shooting people they disagree with isn't exactly "democratic" either.

[way2muchcoffee]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

The current situation is solely red related and red started

I would be so nice if red leaning posters could actually

post something other than the usual double standard

or PAD did this or that.

Did you read/understand my post? I'm not red and I was pointing out that PAD apologists currently advocating shooting people they disagree with isn't exactly "democratic" either.

I'm not advocating shooting people. I think an honest negotiation should take place and compromises should be made. If negotiations continue to fail, eventually the government will have to disperse the protesters. It is likely that people will be injured or killed if that takes place.

I do have a question for you. What does your government do when a criminal/terrorist/insurrectionist resists arrest, and uses war weapons to kill security forces?

Edited May 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[LuckyLew]

Reds came for a war and they are heck bent on causing as much trouble

as possible. They do not care if a few people get shot, they terrorize and

create havoc as they feel like ...

You do not negotiate with terrorists

From the top down, that is what they are

[whybother]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

There is a big difference between 'apologists' on TVF advocating violence and a 'LEADER' actually out there DOING violence.

[hextac]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

There is a big difference between 'apologists' on TVF advocating violence and a 'LEADER' actually out there DOING violence.

But that happened in 2008 so it isn't relevant any more, right?

[JNASHDDS]

Everybody knows about "The Wild West", where there was just a little bit of justice and people often took the law in their own hands. It seems Thailand has developed itself into the "Wild East", where groups can hyjack a whole city centre, kidnap persons, attack persons and institutions, carry fire arms, occupy hospitals, et cetera. The sherrif /police is very reluctant to act. The army, which is equiped and trained to use force doesn't execute their duties. This behavior of the autorities and the forces makes the red-group feel like untouchables. They hunt for individuals, storm hospitals, nothing stops them. The red-shirt-group has created a state within the state where there are no Thai laws valid. So we can consider them as outlaws. What the H.... are they talking about democracy? If there is one undemocratic movement then this is surely the red-shirt movement. They are attacking the Thai democratic system and the Thai state by causing enormous damage. What would Thailand do if a neighboring country attacked Thailand or damaged Thailand's properties?

ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME WE CALLED A SPADE, A SPADE?

Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[15] They claim that culture is created by collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus rejects individualism.[15] In viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they claim that pluralism is a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.[16][17] They advocate the creation of a single-party state.[18] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[19] They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[20]

Fascists reject and resist autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered part of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be assimilated.[21] They consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront and threat to the nation.[21]

[whybother]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

There is a big difference between 'apologists' on TVF advocating violence and a 'LEADER' actually out there DOING violence.

But that happened in 2008 so it isn't relevant any more, right?

What happened ... the airport seizure?

Is that relevant now? I don't think so?

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

[hextac]

But that happened in 2008 so it isn't relevant any more, right?

What happened ... the airport seizure?

Is that relevant now? I don't think so?

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

No the red "leader" fighting with the PAD protesters, I am aware of the 2008 amnesty though, that's why I was asking.

[whybother]

But that happened in 2008 so it isn't relevant any more, right?

What happened ... the airport seizure?

Is that relevant now? I don't think so?

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

No the red "leader" fighting with the PAD protesters, I am aware of the 2008 amnesty though, that's why I was asking.

It's relevant, because the same guy is out now. Leopard. Spots.

[hextac]

But that happened in 2008 so it isn't relevant any more, right?

What happened ... the airport seizure?

Is that relevant now? I don't think so?

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

No the red "leader" fighting with the PAD protesters, I am aware of the 2008 amnesty though, that's why I was asking.

It's relevant, because the same guy is out now. Leopard. Spots.

Zebra, stripes - so where are all the PAD leaders then?

[brahmburgers]

The more I hear about Kwangchai, the more I think he might be even more of a loose cannon than Seh Dang Kittaya, if that's possible. They're both very dangerous people and should have been locked up long ago. They're unabashedly out for blood, particularly to harm and kill PAD members. They represent the absolute worst in Thai/human nature.

A cold kill by a gov't security sniper would completely justified at this time.

I have to admit I can't understand why this hasn't happened yet? No red leader arrested, no red leader shot at...but plenty of "yellow" folks bombed, attacked, etc. Can anyone explain?

It is very simple to explain...This government works by the rule of the law. When you work with the laws that govern your country, no such act can be justified or you are just as bad as the evil you are trying to fight...

To use your words, "the rule of law" doesn't rule out use of deadly force in every situation. If a man is holding a gun to a woman's head, using her as a human shield to escape a botched bank robbery, 'rule of law' in many places allows sharpshooters to take him out with a bullet or two. Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings. Additionally, those same killers maintain a policy of killing anyone who holds different political view than they, and who ventures on their turf.

I'm saying deadly force by security officers is justified in certain circumstances. Besides the scenarios described above, there is the current scenario in downtown Bkk where combat trained men, wearing disguises (hiding their faces) are carrying combat weapons with intent to kill. That's simply not allowed in any civil society, and preemptive lethal force is justified to take them out.

Cops and military serve a multi-faceted function. One of those functions is to serve and protect the populace at large. If you were the father/husband/brother or son of the woman who was killed by a Red grenade last week, you'd have a better idea of what I'm alluding to.

[hextac]

It is very simple to explain...This government works by the rule of the law. When you work with the laws that govern your country, no such act can be justified or you are just as bad as the evil you are trying to fight...

To use your words, "the rule of law" doesn't rule out use of deadly force in every situation. If a man is holding a gun to a woman's head, using her as a human shield to escape a botched bank robbery, 'rule of law' in many places allows sharpshooters to take him out with a bullet or two. Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings. Additionally, those same killers maintain a policy of killing anyone who holds different political view than they, and who ventures on their turf.

I'm saying deadly force by security officers is justified in certain circumstances. Besides the scenarios described above, there is the current scenario in downtown Bkk where combat trained men, wearing disguises (hiding their faces) are carrying combat weapons with intent to kill. That's simply not allowed in any civil society, and preemptive lethal force is justified to take them out.

Cops and military serve a multi-faceted function. One of those functions is to serve and protect the populace at large. If you were the father/husband/brother or son of the woman who was killed by a Red grenade last week, you'd have a better idea of what I'm alluding to.

Carrying a gun does not mean you have intent to kill and there is currently no evidence that the reds have fired any grenades.

[whybother]

No the red "leader" fighting with the PAD protesters, I am aware of the 2008 amnesty though, that's why I was asking.

It's relevant, because the same guy is out now. Leopard. Spots.

Zebra, stripes - so where are all the PAD leaders then?

They have been to court, and are now waiting for further court proceedings.

[eeconomist]

The red shirt terrorist say they are a democratic party and if the majority of the people do not believe them, they will bomb the majority until they do.

Just like the Yellow terrorists, if they cannot win and election, block the airport, block the Government, call for Martial Law and ask for a coup, ask for nominated MP and senator... anything goes except a democratic election...

Edited May 1, 2010 by eeconomist

[whiterussian]

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

You mean like get shot in the head? Not sure if the PAD did...

Holding a shopping mall under seige? instead of Govt house as PAD did..

Demanding a coup/election? er.. just like the PAD at the airport did...

Is the difference that the armed faction in the reds are loony extremists, but the armed faction on the yellow side is called 'the army'?

I hope something is learnt on both sides by all this willy waving in BK. If its dreadful enough maybe both sides will refrain from doing it again so soon.

Edited May 1, 2010 by whiterussian

[brahmburgers]

Carrying a gun does not mean you have intent to kill and there is currently no evidence that the reds have fired any grenades.

A grown man carrying a gun in a very tense zone downtown is worrisome. We're talking about guys with face disguises, latex gloves, extremely wary of anyone taking their photo, hand on the trigger. They're not carrying guns to stir their bowls of noodles and coagulated pigs blood. When a person carries a gun in a mob-like crowd within self-made fuel-dowsed barricades, with armed government and police looking on intently, then it's reasonable to assume that person intends to use that gun. He can call it protection, but the innocent woman, standing over a 100 meters away on a train platform, who got pieces of shrapnel lodged in her brain might call it somethings else.

Stating, as you do, "there is currently no evidence that the reds have fired any grenades" is died-in-the-wool Red denial of a load of credible evidence to the contrary. So, does that mean you think the military bombed themselves with grenades on April 10th, .....and that the woman killed and others injured near the rail platform on April 22 (by a grenade) were in on some weird suicide plot? It's people like Hextac, who are going to deny deny deny any wrongdoing by the Reds, which are going to make the investigations and prosecutions of killers very protracted. The bigger worry is that the government will go soft as a baby's belly, and agree to amnesties for Red shirt rioters and the killers they're harboring.

Edited May 2, 2010 by brahmburgers

[whybother]

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

You mean like get shot in the head? Not sure if the PAD did...

Holding a shopping mall under seige? instead of Govt house as PAD did..

Demanding a coup/election? er.. just like the PAD at the airport did...

Is the difference that the armed faction in the reds are loony extremists, but the armed faction on the yellow side is called 'the army'?

I hope something is learnt on both sides by all this willy waving in BK. If its dreadful enough maybe both sides will refrain from doing it again so soon.

I thought the PAD airport siezure was related to the slow movement of the court case, not actually calling for an election. Their whole protest (post coup) was about stopping the PPP from changing laws that would allow Thaksin's charges to be whitewashed.

The yellows called off their protests the day after the court decision was announced on December 3.

The ex-PPP (PTP) were still in power at this point with a care-taker PM. They had an option of dissolving parliament and calling a new election at this point but decided to go for another vote for PM (same as for Somchai).

It wasn't until the 15th that a new vote for PM brought the Democrats to power.

Edited May 2, 2010 by whybother

[mintyfresh]

All the other frames contain Police File Mug Shots...!

13 Former criminals died that night.

Can you make a screen cap of that scene? I'd certainly like to see it! Backs up what I was feeling anyway...bunch of criminals and mafia, and their witless and toothless grandmas to boot.

[jayboy]

Last I checked this thread is about a PAD spokesman who had to flee an airport that was blocked by a red caravan. This thread is not about France. This thread is not about various democratic systems. Please stick to the topic guys.

I don't agree at all.Comparitive politics is often extremely relevant indeed, and I salute the intelligence of moderators who understand this.I agree that comparisons with situations abroad must indicate why they are relevant to Thailand and obviously common sense should be used in terms of cuttiing off in reasonable time.

[mca]

Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings.

Link please

[whybother]

Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings.

Link please

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30078902

google "PAD supporter killed, 20 others in political violence in Udon Thani" for other references.

[jayboy]

It seems odd that in this thread nobody has commented on Dr Tui's record and character, quite legitimate to discuss since he is a public figure.Google is your friend and the political webboards also have content.Suffice it say he embodies the fascist, hyper-nationalist and violent end of the nutty reactionary spectrum.

[mca]

Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings.

Link please

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30078902

google "PAD supporter killed, 20 others in political violence in Udon Thani" for other references.

So basically nothing whatsoever to do with Khon Kaen.

[brahmburgers]

The reds like to bring it up a lot though. The red supporters were always using it in their excuses ("But the yellows did ..."), but the reds have surpassed by a mile anything that the yellows ever did.

You mean like get shot in the head? Not sure if the PAD did...

Holding a shopping mall under seige? instead of Govt house as PAD did..

Demanding a coup/election? er.. just like the PAD at the airport did...

Is the difference that the armed faction in the reds are loony extremists, but the armed faction on the yellow side is called 'the army'?

I hope something is learnt on both sides by all this willy waving in BK. If its dreadful enough maybe both sides will refrain from doing it again so soon.

I thought the PAD airport siezure was related to the slow movement of the court case, not actually calling for an election. Their whole protest (post coup) was about stopping the PPP from changing laws that would allow Thaksin's charges to be whitewashed.

The yellows called off their protests the day after the court decision was announced on December 3.

The ex-PPP (PTP) were still in power at this point with a care-taker PM. They had an option of dissolving parliament and calling a new election at this point but decided to go for another vote for PM (same as for Somchai).

It wasn't until the 15th that a new vote for PM brought the Democrats to power.

Thanks Whybother for shedding some facts and reasoning on the subject. However, Red supporters never let anything as annoying as facts and reasoning get in the way of their alarmist ranting. .........but we can try.

As for mentioning Kon Kaen as the place where the man was shot by a mob of Reds led by Kwanchai (for having different political views), my apologies if I got the city names wrong. Apparently the dastardly deed happened a few hours drive up the hwy in Udon Thani.

[whybother]

Now, how different is that scenario with a scenario of a group of men in Kon Kaen who threaten deadly force, and actually kill someone (which happened recently) because they don't like that person's political leanings.

Link please

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30078902

google "PAD supporter killed, 20 others in political violence in Udon Thani" for other references.

So basically nothing whatsoever to do with Khon Kaen.

Seems not. I couldn't find anything related to Khon Kaen, but the original poster didn't specifically state Khon Kaen. He pointed out a link between reds threatening deadly force (as in Khon Kaen) with a group causing death (as in Udon Thani).

[viking75]

I watched the video of Reds invading a hospital in Bangkok. The police were just standing there letting them get on with it.

It`s seems that any thug can put on a whatever coloured shirt, go on the rampage with his mates and suddenly he's above the law.

Due to lack of actions on behalf of the authorities to clamp down and enforce the law upon these thugs, the Government with their softly, softly approach has inevitably put these terrorists and thugs above the law.

If this process continues, the thugs will take over this country ruling by fear and intimidation. If and when that happens, it`s time to get out.

you don't know it yet, but the old regime is finished and now this fight is for new power to take over. Elites days finished and army and police not sure to back reds or not. think soon they will back red. For sure they will not put democtrat back in power because weak and not have support of most thais. only have support from rich people on here who have computer, so do not think because many of falang post against red that thais think same

forget clever posts and anti red flaming, this is over for government and no thais now serious to believe that monarchy in danger.

last disgusting card played by abhisit with LM against chavalit. now time for un to come in because state has failed

Edited May 2, 2010 by viking75

[dobadoy]

you don't know it yet, but the old regime is finished and now this fight is for new power to take over. Elites days finished and army and police not sure to back reds or not. think soon they will back red. For sure they will not put democtrat back in power because weak and not have support of most thais. only have support from rich people on here who have computer, so do not think because many of falang post against red that thais think same

forget clever posts and anti red flaming, this is over for government and no thais now serious to believe that monarchy in danger.

last disgusting card played by abhisit with LM against chavalit. now time for un to come in because state has failed

I'm going to start collecting posts like this; they have great comedy value. After the Elite are fallen, I may publish them in a book praisiing the New Order and showing how their divine right to rule over all and squash the voices of dissent was predicted by the Wise.

[viking75]

It seems odd that in this thread nobody has commented on Dr Tui's record and character, quite legitimate to discuss since he is a public figure.Google is your friend and the political webboards also have content.Suffice it say he embodies the fascist, hyper-nationalist and violent end of the nutty reactionary spectrum.

he is. i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

most of Dems are same and try to make trouble taking about monarchy and terrorist. before many are killed by army when they say it and now no thais believe it. 8 weeks to try and make army and police move reds for government is not enough?