Dr Tul Cancels Campaign In Khon Kaen

[dobadoy]

the German's tactics of control seems closer to the Reds' gameplay, what with storming hospitals and hunting for people like Dr Tul who try to voice dissent than it does to the Thai gov'ts "softly softly don't do anything to set of the crazy people with grenades and stolen war weapons" approach.

I wonder whether you have any idea what sort of person (Dr Tui) we are talking about here.On another forum he is described as "a vicious and dangerous whack job, Thailand's Lysenko". He is a deplorable reactionary trading on nationalist hysteria (not a commodity missing in Thailand) and if he tried to provoke trouble outside his scumbag circle of admirers he certainly deserves what Oswald Mosley got when he tried something similar in London's East End with his Blackshirts.What you laughably call voicing dissent is straight out of the 1976 gameplan.Find a better example if you are preaching about free speech.

Jayboy, you are the only one, with exception ONE single obviouse quite biased website slagging him.

No sign of ANYONE else saying his is this racist monster. Not common knowledge at all.

I suggest you LINK to these accusations from reputable sources, rather than just say google them.

I did and they ain't there so... Rule 15) I don't see this as true, put up or shut up.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/

Two links which show during the current state of emergency that whatever content they contained has been blocked. Standard practice worldwide in cases of national security. So two questions:

i. What was the point of posting these links?

ii. What has this got to do with Dr Tui being hunted by a pack of armed individuals with bad intent?

I never understand why people do things like this. Just undermines your own credibility.

[kissdani]

Two links which show during the current state of emergency that whatever content they contained has been blocked. Standard practice worldwide in cases of national security. So two questions:

i. What was the point of posting these links?

ii. What has this got to do with Dr Tui being hunted by a pack of armed individuals with bad intent?

I never understand why people do things like this. Just undermines your own credibility.

I thought it is about freedom of speech and right of information.

Coming back to your point: state of emergency laws are indeed close to some historical 'german tactics of control'

To defend it just undermines your own credibility.

And jayboy description of Dr. Tul, is not totally out of place. to deny it just shows a lack of proper information and knowledge.

[way2muchcoffee]

Your observation is correct but of course there are a lot of poor as well

Yes, I do not deny there are probably a lot of poor people in the South and their problems have to be adressed as well. The initial question was: why the Northern people and not the Southern one are demonstrating?

I will add that I have gotten a shock the first time I have visited my in Law family (average people in the issan village). except a TV, a motorbike, and a running water tap in the garden, I was transported to Middle Ages: wooden house plenty of holes in the walls, big "tokays circulating freely, ground in trodden earth, not a window or door fitted and closing correctly, no kitchen, no bathroom, just an outside room with a water tub and a hole... and most of the other village houses are similar. From Sakhorn Nakhon to Nakhon Phanom and to Siwilai, plenty of identical villages. About roads (in fact tracks): the worst is probably the Siwilai area with trees growing in the middle of asphalt, huge holes on main roads joining villages...I have never seen such a similar situation in Southern Thailand

Then you probably haven't spent much time in rural areas in the South would be my guess.

[way2muchcoffee]

....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power

I've hear this stated numerous times, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest it.

Would you please explain precisely which clauses in the 1997 constitution were removed, and which clauses were added to the new constitution that were specifically aimed at preventing Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power? Please show the connection between the changes to a deliberate attempt to weaken Thaksin-policy supporters.

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

So you are unable to provide the information requested. You could just say that. Instead you compose a letter of criticism without even bothering to answer a totally legitimate question. So there it is.

[way2muchcoffee]

Way2muchcoffee

IMHO I fully agree with you . The conduct of the reds , not allowing other parties , like the dems freedom of speech in the North is absolutely unaceptable . Their red propaganda even in central Thailand is depicting Abhisit as the boogy man and ppl believe that propaganda , its really sad .

On the other end one must be objective and see what would happen in the South if a PTP politicians tried to hold an electoral meeting . Same thing . Had the political parties done their job of serving the ppl instead of lining their pocket before 2001 , a flawed demagog (they all flawed) like Thaksin would never had been abble to gain such influence in thai politics . Ppl might then be more inclined in the North to listen to many views . And had Thaksin done his job for the South , ppl there would be more inclined to listen to the PTP .

Anyway Thaksin , if not yet his influence , is out for good . thanks God .

Now hopefully the politicians (whichever those that are in power) finally start do their job to serve the Nation and the people and then i guess everybody will listen to everybody

Well I haven't read much of PTP/PPP/TRT being attacked or killed in the south. I do remember that the PAD was hounding PPP reps with demonstrations and hand clappers. This was totally inappropriate. Even Abhisit stated as much. In any case, I am totally in agreement with you regarding politicians doing their job and serving the nation. I truly and honestly believe Abhisit has been doing exactly that, despite being surrounded by the likes of Suthep and other dinosaurs of the Democrat party. My estimation of Abhisit could well be misinformed and I can accept that, but in the decade I've been living here he strikes me as the most honest and least corrupt PM in recent years. And for this reason I will hang my hat with him, at least until I am confronted with evidence that makes me drop that support.

[way2muchcoffee]

why do you answer for waytoomuchcoffee in first person singular?

you blogging together or if you same person all same. nobody believe your bull if you post it in 20 names and repeat all day.

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

I strongly object. I have one and only one nickname. It is unfortunate that pornassi used the first person in his post and it appeared that we are one and the same. If you read my posting history and that of pornassi you will clearly see that we are not the same person. I have nothing at all against pornassi. He is another poster and seeks knowledge and understanding, as do I. Our political leanings are different. And that is ok. In any case, you are way off base in your accusations.

[hextac]

Again this happens. Obtuse 'reasoning' by the red shirt apologists. What TAWP is trying to explain to you Jayboy, is that the right to free speech involves letting people say what they want. If at some time society (i.e, the powers that be) decide that what is being said is detrimental to the society, then they will revoke the right to free speech for some individuals, within (hopefully) transparent boundaries. Thai society has not yet decided that the propagation of Dr Tui's views are unacceptable, therefore he is free to speak and travel where he wishes, no matter how repulsive you, I or Tawp may or may not find the man. You're right; the Dr's character is of interest, but not central to the issue. His views are by no means 'precisely the point'

So in Thailand "the powers that be" define what is free speech and what is or isn't tolerated, and what is detrimental to society.And there unwittingly you have identified why Thailand is on the verge of civil war with millions of Thais now prepared to tell the "powers that be" to take a hike.

No, in Thailand "the powers that be" define what is free speech and what isn't tolerated. Understand?

[jayboy]

the German's tactics of control seems closer to the Reds' gameplay, what with storming hospitals and hunting for people like Dr Tul who try to voice dissent than it does to the Thai gov'ts "softly softly don't do anything to set of the crazy people with grenades and stolen war weapons" approach.

I wonder whether you have any idea what sort of person (Dr Tui) we are talking about here.On another forum he is described as "a vicious and dangerous whack job, Thailand's Lysenko". He is a deplorable reactionary trading on nationalist hysteria (not a commodity missing in Thailand) and if he tried to provoke trouble outside his scumbag circle of admirers he certainly deserves what Oswald Mosley got when he tried something similar in London's East End with his Blackshirts.What you laughably call voicing dissent is straight out of the 1976 gameplan.Find a better example if you are preaching about free speech.

Jayboy, you are the only one, with exception ONE single obviouse quite biased website slagging him.

No sign of ANYONE else saying his is this racist monster. Not common knowledge at all.

I suggest you LINK to these accusations from reputable sources, rather than just say google them.

I did and they ain't there so... Rule 15) I don't see this as true, put up or shut up.

You can apologise for people like this as much as you like.It simply confirms your prejudices.

There are means of research other than the internet.

[jayboy]

Again this happens. Obtuse 'reasoning' by the red shirt apologists. What TAWP is trying to explain to you Jayboy, is that the right to free speech involves letting people say what they want. If at some time society (i.e, the powers that be) decide that what is being said is detrimental to the society, then they will revoke the right to free speech for some individuals, within (hopefully) transparent boundaries. Thai society has not yet decided that the propagation of Dr Tui's views are unacceptable, therefore he is free to speak and travel where he wishes, no matter how repulsive you, I or Tawp may or may not find the man. You're right; the Dr's character is of interest, but not central to the issue. His views are by no means 'precisely the point'

So in Thailand "the powers that be" define what is free speech and what is or isn't tolerated, and what is detrimental to society.And there unwittingly you have identified why Thailand is on the verge of civil war with millions of Thais now prepared to tell the "powers that be" to take a hike.

No, in Thailand "the powers that be" define what is free speech and what isn't tolerated. Understand?

You repeat the ambiguities in the original post, but without explaining them.

[jayboy]

Two links which show during the current state of emergency that whatever content they contained has been blocked. Standard practice worldwide in cases of national security. So two questions:

i. What was the point of posting these links?

ii. What has this got to do with Dr Tui being hunted by a pack of armed individuals with bad intent?

I never understand why people do things like this. Just undermines your own credibility.

Blocking websites in standard practice in repressive states or states where democracy is struggling.Thailand falls in the latter category.National security is always the justificating lie.

[Slip]

In every country the 'powers that be' make these decisions. Like Thailand's government, they are (hopefully) legally in power. Yes, when governments believe that their citizens have crossed a line, they will take action against them. I'm not sure that the revolution you're predicting is quite ready to fly. The millions of Thais who want to tell anyone to go will have an opportunity at the next election like the civilised people that they are. (I believe it might be early due to the adroit handling of Phi Abhisit).

I'm puzzled by your response.The "powers that be" aren't normally considered to be represented by just the government in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter.Free speech is considered a right in democracies and cannot be given or taken away by a government, even accepting your doubtful definition.I didn't predict a revolution, simply pointed out that old style Thai deference is collapsing.And as for the election you comically believe will bring Abhisit a second term....bring it on.

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm talking about situations like hate-speech, or sedition or such like. The 'powers that be', i.e the government enact the laws to provide the boundaries of what is acceptable in free speech. If people break these laws they are arrested by the police and tried by the courts (all of which are ultimately under the control of the government). I'm not talking about free speech suddenly being restricted, but the response when existing laws are broken.

BTW I don't believe that Abhisit will necessarily get a second term. It's a possibility though.

I think Hextac was making a political point about his perception of the current administration's abuse of free speech.

[jayboy]

In every country the 'powers that be' make these decisions. Like Thailand's government, they are (hopefully) legally in power. Yes, when governments believe that their citizens have crossed a line, they will take action against them. I'm not sure that the revolution you're predicting is quite ready to fly. The millions of Thais who want to tell anyone to go will have an opportunity at the next election like the civilised people that they are. (I believe it might be early due to the adroit handling of Phi Abhisit).

I'm puzzled by your response.The "powers that be" aren't normally considered to be represented by just the government in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter.Free speech is considered a right in democracies and cannot be given or taken away by a government, even accepting your doubtful definition.I didn't predict a revolution, simply pointed out that old style Thai deference is collapsing.And as for the election you comically believe will bring Abhisit a second term....bring it on.

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm talking about situations like hate-speech, or sedition or such like. The 'powers that be', i.e the government enact the laws to provide the boundaries of what is acceptable in free speech. If people break these laws they are arrested by the police and tried by the courts (all of which are ultimately under the control of the government). I'm not talking about free speech suddenly being restricted, but the response when existing laws are broken.

BTW I don't believe that Abhisit will necessarily get a second term. It's a possibility though.

I think Hextac was making a political point about his perception of the current administration's abuse of free speech.

Okay I see what you mean.Perhaps "hatespeach", a useful term, should be discussed on its own.Let's face it there has been a good deal of hatespeach from all sides.I was intrigued to note that some of my Thai friends(middle class Sino-Thai) on Facebook have referred to the Red threat in terms which clearly suggested the "uneducated buffalos" from Isaan were not "proper Thais".

[chantorn]

the German's tactics of control seems closer to the Reds' gameplay, what with storming hospitals and hunting for people like Dr Tul who try to voice dissent than it does to the Thai gov'ts "softly softly don't do anything to set of the crazy people with grenades and stolen war weapons" approach.

I wonder whether you have any idea what sort of person (Dr Tui) we are talking about here.On another forum he is described as "a vicious and dangerous whack job, Thailand's Lysenko". He is a deplorable reactionary trading on nationalist hysteria (not a commodity missing in Thailand) and if he tried to provoke trouble outside his scumbag circle of admirers he certainly deserves what Oswald Mosley got when he tried something similar in London's East End with his Blackshirts.What you laughably call voicing dissent is straight out of the 1976 gameplan.Find a better example if you are preaching about free speech.

Jayboy, you are the only one, with exception ONE single obviouse quite biased website slagging him.

No sign of ANYONE else saying his is this racist monster. Not common knowledge at all.

I suggest you LINK to these accusations from reputable sources, rather than just say google them.

I did and they ain't there so... Rule 15) I don't see this as true, put up or shut up.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/

Both link are block.

By whom?

[viking75]

the German's tactics of control seems closer to the Reds' gameplay, what with storming hospitals and hunting for people like Dr Tul who try to voice dissent than it does to the Thai gov'ts "softly softly don't do anything to set of the crazy people with grenades and stolen war weapons" approach.

I wonder whether you have any idea what sort of person (Dr Tui) we are talking about here.On another forum he is described as "a vicious and dangerous whack job, Thailand's Lysenko". He is a deplorable reactionary trading on nationalist hysteria (not a commodity missing in Thailand) and if he tried to provoke trouble outside his scumbag circle of admirers he certainly deserves what Oswald Mosley got when he tried something similar in London's East End with his Blackshirts.What you laughably call voicing dissent is straight out of the 1976 gameplan.Find a better example if you are preaching about free speech.

Jayboy, you are the only one, with exception ONE single obviouse quite biased website slagging him.

No sign of ANYONE else saying his is this racist monster. Not common knowledge at all.

I suggest you LINK to these accusations from reputable sources, rather than just say google them.

I did and they ain't there so... Rule 15) I don't see this as true, put up or shut up.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/

Oh dear, more of that "Gov not interfering with media" we read about in Nation this morning. Sorry that many are not up to speed on Dr Tul. Most thais are and he is a right wing nut job.

sorry cannot post more links as free and fair government not want falangs to know about their friends.

[pornsasi]

Way2muchcoffee

IMHO I fully agree with you . The conduct of the reds , not allowing other parties , like the dems freedom of speech in the North is absolutely unaceptable . Their red propaganda even in central Thailand is depicting Abhisit as the boogy man and ppl believe that propaganda , its really sad .

On the other end one must be objective and see what would happen in the South if a PTP politicians tried to hold an electoral meeting . Same thing . Had the political parties done their job of serving the ppl instead of lining their pocket before 2001 , a flawed demagog (they all flawed) like Thaksin would never had been abble to gain such influence in thai politics . Ppl might then be more inclined in the North to listen to many views . And had Thaksin done his job for the South , ppl there would be more inclined to listen to the PTP .

Anyway Thaksin , if not yet his influence , is out for good . thanks God .

Now hopefully the politicians (whichever those that are in power) finally start do their job to serve the Nation and the people and then i guess everybody will listen to everybody

Well I haven't read much of PTP/PPP/TRT being attacked or killed in the south. I do remember that the PAD was hounding PPP reps with demonstrations and hand clappers. This was totally inappropriate. Even Abhisit stated as much. In any case, I am totally in agreement with you regarding politicians doing their job and serving the nation. I truly and honestly believe Abhisit has been doing exactly that, despite being surrounded by the likes of Suthep and other dinosaurs of the Democrat party. My estimation of Abhisit could well be misinformed and I can accept that, but in the decade I've been living here he strikes me as the most honest and least corrupt PM in recent years. And for this reason I will hang my hat with him, at least until I am confronted with evidence that makes me drop that support.

Yes , i agree IMHO that PM Abhisit represents today the best hope for the thai people , his performance since the start of the protest have been nearly spotless . I have been critical in the past on the history that has led to his ascencion to power but he is not faulty for that . Anyway one must look at the future not the past , at least not for too long . The 10th April was a sad thing but given the cards in Abhisit hands , i can hardly see what other choice he had . My only opposition to him is regarding the shutting down or attempt at shutting down of the pro red medias , website , red TV , radios and so on in spite of Banharn and ThaiCom CEO advice . Granted , the red doctored video of him asking for violent crackdown is pure lies , but sooner or later blatant lies backfire on their author anyway and freedom of speech is essential in democracy . The correct response to lies is the truth , not censorship . He also must understand that ppl in north Isaan dont read much newspaper , so he has to use TV for his PR much more efficiently , right now his standing there is more like that of the boogy man

But anyway otherwise a big applause for Abhisit so far . Now the question is if he will really implement his program of free education , sustainable help to the poor , vocational training , health care and so on , that remains to be seen . And will he have the time and mandate to do it ?

[gl9999]

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

Typical Red Shirt hypocrisy.

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "Abhisit's a murderer!"

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "UN and EU, please come save us!"

2500 Thais were murdered by Thaksin when he was in power. The majority of them weren't even in the drug trade while there were even women and children who were killed. Where were the cries of indignation then? Where were the cries to the EU and UN for help to protect innocent people back then?

From a purely mathematical standpoint, PM Abhisit can crackdown on the Red Shirts and kill over a thousand of you rebels and terrorists and he still wouldn't be half as bad as Thaksin in terms of body count.

[Siripon]

The red shirts just can't stand free speech if the speaker disagrees with them.

Right now every day on Channel 11, NBT, there's a programme hosted by Ja (Sergeant) Pong Mahasarakham, he speaks in the Issan dialect and talks about Thaksin's wrongdoings and the misguided present red campaign. He urges the demonstrators to come home.

He makes lots of jokes and is fast becoming a recognisable name in Issan.

So the red shirts protested, he distorts Thaksin's legacy, they claim.Well, sue him I say because I haven't heard one lie he's said about Thaksin or the red shirt leaders yet.

[pornsasi]

why do you answer for waytoomuchcoffee in first person singular?

you blogging together or if you same person all same. nobody believe your bull if you post it in 20 names and repeat all day.

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

I strongly object. I have one and only one nickname. It is unfortunate that pornassi used the first person in his post and it appeared that we are one and the same. If you read my posting history and that of pornassi you will clearly see that we are not the same person. I have nothing at all against pornassi. He is another poster and seeks knowledge and understanding, as do I. Our political leanings are different. And that is ok. In any case, you are way off base in your accusations.

Good point

ps : Sorry if i used the first person , no harm intended

Edited May 3, 2010 by pornsasi

[pornsasi]

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

Typical Red Shirt hypocrisy.

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "Abhisit's a murderer!"

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "UN and EU, please come save us!"

2500 Thais were murdered by Thaksin when he was in power. The majority of them weren't even in the drug trade while there were even women and children who were killed. Where were the cries of indignation then? Where were the cries to the EU and UN for help to protect innocent people back then?

From a purely mathematical standpoint, PM Abhisit can crackdown on the Red Shirts and kill over a thousand of you rebels and terrorists and he still wouldn't be half as bad as Thaksin in terms of body count.

We must be careful here . What Thaksin did by no means give an excuse to Abhisit to do the same .

your post is confusing

Hitler acts dont excuse Stalin acts or vice versa

[pornsasi]

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/

Both link are block.

By whom?

by your hero

[gl9999]

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

Typical Red Shirt hypocrisy.

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "Abhisit's a murderer!"

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "UN and EU, please come save us!"

2500 Thais were murdered by Thaksin when he was in power. The majority of them weren't even in the drug trade while there were even women and children who were killed. Where were the cries of indignation then? Where were the cries to the EU and UN for help to protect innocent people back then?

From a purely mathematical standpoint, PM Abhisit can crackdown on the Red Shirts and kill over a thousand of you rebels and terrorists and he still wouldn't be half as bad as Thaksin in terms of body count.

We must be careful here . What Thaksin did by no means give an excuse to Abhisit to do the same .

your post is confusing

Hitler acts dont excuse Stalin acts or vice versa

My post wasn't about wanting Abhisit to be as deadly as Thaksin. My post is about how hypocritical Red Shirts are.

[MiG16]

I hear he now got to Khon Kaen by car?

confirmation? or has it already been mentioned in prior pages? (sorry didnt quite manage to read every post)

[pornsasi]

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

Typical Red Shirt hypocrisy.

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "Abhisit's a murderer!"

20 Red Shirts die and boo hoo "UN and EU, please come save us!"

2500 Thais were murdered by Thaksin when he was in power. The majority of them weren't even in the drug trade while there were even women and children who were killed. Where were the cries of indignation then? Where were the cries to the EU and UN for help to protect innocent people back then?

From a purely mathematical standpoint, PM Abhisit can crackdown on the Red Shirts and kill over a thousand of you rebels and terrorists and he still wouldn't be half as bad as Thaksin in terms of body count.

We must be careful here . What Thaksin did by no means give an excuse to Abhisit to do the same .

your post is confusing

Hitler acts dont excuse Stalin acts or vice versa

My post wasn't about wanting Abhisit to be as deadly as Thaksin. My post is about how hypocritical Red Shirts are.

fine , fine ..