Dr Tul Cancels Campaign In Khon Kaen

[yoshiwara]

The red shirt terrorist say they are a democratic party and if the majority of the people do not believe them, they will bomb the majority until they do.

I'm guessing you have a PhD in political science and no tattoos?

Looking at your avatar, I would say that compared to you, he probably has.

[schuimpje]

Just finished watching the Red's VCD on the 10th April events.

Will it's gross to watch, couple of things I noticed.

1. There's only about 7 minutes of original footage, mainly from parliament, day-time scenes and just text on a colored background spread over the course of 25 minutes in total.

2. Actual footage from the 10th April events count for about 1.5 minutes out of this 7 minutes.

3. Rest of the CD is repeat after repeat after repeat with sometimes scenes cleverly looped to make it look like a scene of 2 minutes where it's actually only 10 seconds worth of material. There are also many scenes that are used in various different scenarios. They have maybe one or two scenes from military that are used over and over again at the end of various different 'scenes' to show military shooting at different locations...

The best shot however I find is where they show the red's the next day, mourning over their fallen comrades.

It's somewhere around the 13.50 mark.

Why is this the best shot?

While I deplore all violence and absolutely mourn all victims of this situation so far, looking at that scene did make me wonder.

From the 14 Picture Frames on the table, there is only 1 frame with a 'normal' picture of the deceased person.

All the other frames contain Police File Mug Shots...!

13 Former criminals died that night.

Gives you something to think about.

Normal people did not die out there because they stay out of trouble, except for some unlucky people that got into the cross fire and of course the soldiers that where sent into battle for which I have the greatest respect, given that they had only received half the mandate necessary to clean this up.

People looking for trouble, according to those pictures, did die that night.

Sorry for being so cold-hearted, but it puts a slightly different perspective on things I think.

In other words the army were able to shoot only villains...or the whole of the red shirt demonstration are criminals?

Don't be silly, the 'police file mugshots' are the pictures from their ID cards...everybody with a Thai ID has a picture looking like this....

Point taken on the Thai ID card. Thanks for pointing that out, I should have known, being married to a Thai lady.

I did however not imply that all Reds are criminals and that the army can shoot at will.

My first thought during that day when it became dark was that it would become a disaster, that the army should stop right then and there or retreat. But they did not and the rest is history.

I do think that a small group of Reds can be labelled as criminal and that they are leading a large group of innocent people into believing that their actions are right by distorting information on a continuous basis. There's no justification for any of their actions and the only reason for each and every of their action has been to try and tempt the government into making mistakes for them to get that justification.

I have no feelings for people who shamelessly blame every problem on somebody else whilst they are at the minimum a part of that problem.

The hospital invasion being the worst of all and I'm quite sure that it has cost them most if not all goodwill that even their loyal supporters outside their camp had for them.

What is really outrageous is their claims today (after not getting any good press yesterday over their apology) that the hospital has just made a show out of the evacuation to make the reds look bad.

Exactly those people are the criminals that I refer to. It takes all the patience and self-control one can muster not to shoot them and become one of them as well, but I look forward to the moment that all the cards come on the table and everybody will see what was really going on.

That day will come, I'm sure, not too long from now.

Why do I think that? Well, for example the previous definite NO to a national government from the PTP side. They have opposed everything so far, only calling for dissolving parliament and have elections.

But what happened yesterday???

Chavalit was calling for a National government where all parties would take seat and run the country for 6 months to 2 years.

Why the sudden change of mind? From the little bit we know from press/tv, my conclusion is that they know that the party is almost finished and they will not be invited for the after-party.

[yoshiwara]

It seems that in Thai politics people are usually acting out of personal interest rather than national interest. With the amount of corruption people are always struggling to get their share. Why would anyone buy votes if there wasn't money to be made from being in office? I agree that the constitution should be fixed so that all Thais can receive good government and representation. The problem is finding people who will do it without attempting to give an advantage to their own side. I think getting red Thais and Yellow Thais in one room and expecting them to draft a neutral document is wishful thinking.

You raise interesting and important points....last year in the local elections in my town here in Isan the incumbent was offering 500 Baht to voters...he was challenged by a rather attractive lady who ran a huge campaign, her picture was everywhere and there were almost non-stop taxis blaring out her message for one month before the election, she offered 1000 baht to voters...strangely, the incumbent won hands down...apparently lots of folk went to collet the 1000 baht from the nice lady but then voted for the incumbent...but she must have spent an enormous amount of money, and clearly she was expecting to get all of her campaign money back with interest if she had won...based on our old friend corruption...on this occasion the increased donation didn't work...maybe the poor people are not that stupid?

I also agree with the notion of a revised constitution...clearly whoever drafts the constitution will stack it towards the party that they favor....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power; they even made it a criminal offense, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, to criticize or campaign against the constitution before the referendum; nevertheless the Thaksin-policy supporters won the most seats presumably because a simple look around will show you that there are a lot more poor people in Thailand who like pro-poor policies than there are rich folk driving their Benzes to shop at Ratchprasong...the World Bank report on Thailand in 2006 makes the point that Thaksin-policies halved the poverty rate in Thailand in 5 years, so no wonder he was popular with poor people, and no wonder people turned a blind eye to his corrupt practices, especially as the y think that all politicians are corrupt...

Like you I do not think it is possible to rewrite the constitution in a way that will be acceptable to both the elite and the poor...and rigging the vote to make one pass simply deprives it of legitimacy again....

For me the only way is via some body outside of the country, the UN or some such body, who would construct a constitution perceived as fair by the UN in an open vote, and then have UN monitored elections...but this path forward will not be acceptable to the elite and so is a non starter...which means impasse...

Even if the red shirts are broken at Ratchaprasong, the grievances will still be here and will go underground, with disastrous consequences, in my opinion....

I fear that the solution will come when life here becomes intolerable enough, and the prizes resulting from gaining power are reduced to the extent that people become prepared to make compromises....and sadly this seems a long way off...

You can opinionate all you like about grievances, but the current campaign by the reds is bought and paid for by Thaksin.

Halved the poverty rate in 5 years? Which bullshit hymn-sheet did that come from?

You may push yourself as one of the 'reasonable' reds but your avatar says it all.

Intolerant holocaust denier.

[tubber]

I've just returned from a visit to a village in rural Sakon Nakhon. The villagers there are mostly Redshirt supporters. They are encouraged by the Headmen and quite a few local govt officials who all think the sun shone out of Thaksin's derriere. The few non-Redshirt supporters or govt sympathisers I've spoken with are afraid to speak out, as they are in the minority. However, I suspect the majority are actually silent, with no strong views one way or the other, but the Reds are loud, brash and boastful. They dominate the political space in the village, making it an intimidating atmosphere for other's to express an opinion.

Since the April 10th bloodshed in BKK, two significant events have happened. One is core Redshirt supporters have set up a community radio station that broadcasts Rednews and propaganda all through the day and late into the evening (not sure of it is 24 hours). This keeps the supporters in touch with what is happening in BKK and elsewhere in the Red Revolution, since the People's Channel was blocked. It also provides music and entertainment of the sort popular in Isaan. Secondly, dozens of VCDs have been distributed to villagers showing a totally lopsided and distorted version of events from before, during and after the April 10th violence. Naturally, the Reds are presented as the heroes and victims, while the govt is presented as the villains and sole instigators of the violence. Abhisit is singled out for particular hatred and vilification for every perceived wrong committed against the Reds. The villagers lap it up as gospel.

My main point in raising this is that given this state of affairs, there is little chance in Red villages such as this that there can be free and fair elections in the near future, as a single mob has colonised the minds of the villagers and will not allow alternative voices and points of views to be heard, which was reflected in the actions of the Redshirts in Khon Kaen yesterday and bodes ill, with all the other numerous anti-democratic incidents for the peaceful future of Thailand, Isaan especially. Functional democracy is still a distant dream, I'm afraid.

I also live in a village in rural Sakon Nakhon and agree with you 100%. Sakon Nakhon also has the rather dubious honour of being the birthplace of Thai Communism, Ho Chi Min's old house is just along the road. About 6 months ago they started putting up massive road side posters of Thaksin. But can you really blame them? We got a new school and a hospital, One Tambon One Product scheme, million Baht village loans. Whatever Thaksin was he was certainly a very astute politician. The Reds have this area sewn up especially when theirs is the only voice to be heard.

[tubber]

the World Bank report on Thailand in 2006 makes the point that Thaksin-policies halved the poverty rate in Thailand in 5 years, so no wonder he was popular with poor people, and no wonder people turned a blind eye to his corrupt practices, especially as the y think that all politicians are corrupt...

If halving the poverty rate means having a shiny new car outside your house but being up to you eyeballs in debt, I think his low interest loans did achieve that. By what percentage did individuals personal debt increase during his administration?

[schuimpje]

the World Bank report on Thailand in 2006 makes the point that Thaksin-policies halved the poverty rate in Thailand in 5 years, so no wonder he was popular with poor people, and no wonder people turned a blind eye to his corrupt practices, especially as the y think that all politicians are corrupt...

If halving the poverty rate means having a shiny new car outside your house but being up to you eyeballs in debt, I think his low interest loans did achieve that. By what percentage did individuals personal debt increase during his administration?

Second that Tubber. Adding to it, why do you think that His Majesty introduced the self-sufficiency idea? If you read and think a bit further, then you can easily connect the dots between this eye-ball debt problem and the self sufficiency.

[KireB]

In other words the army were able to shoot only villains...or the whole of the red shirt demonstration are criminals?

Don't be silly, the 'police file mugshots' are the pictures from their ID cards...everybody with a Thai ID has a picture looking like this....

Could you in all your wisdom show us your source on the claim that the army shot these people? I doubt you can.

[KireB]

the World Bank report on Thailand in 2006 makes the point that Thaksin-policies halved the poverty rate in Thailand in 5 years, so no wonder he was popular with poor people, and no wonder people turned a blind eye to his corrupt practices, especially as the y think that all politicians are corrupt...

If halving the poverty rate means having a shiny new car outside your house but being up to you eyeballs in debt, I think his low interest loans did achieve that. By what percentage did individuals personal debt increase during his administration?

Just have a look at stats on the average Thai household debt in the Thaksin years. Shocking.

[retarius]

It seems that in Thai politics people are usually acting out of personal interest rather than national interest. With the amount of corruption people are always struggling to get their share. Why would anyone buy votes if there wasn't money to be made from being in office? I agree that the constitution should be fixed so that all Thais can receive good government and representation. The problem is finding people who will do it without attempting to give an advantage to their own side. I think getting red Thais and Yellow Thais in one room and expecting them to draft a neutral document is wishful thinking.

You raise interesting and important points....last year in the local elections in my town here in Isan the incumbent was offering 500 Baht to voters...he was challenged by a rather attractive lady who ran a huge campaign, her picture was everywhere and there were almost non-stop taxis blaring out her message for one month before the election, she offered 1000 baht to voters...strangely, the incumbent won hands down...apparently lots of folk went to collet the 1000 baht from the nice lady but then voted for the incumbent...but she must have spent an enormous amount of money, and clearly she was expecting to get all of her campaign money back with interest if she had won...based on our old friend corruption...on this occasion the increased donation didn't work...maybe the poor people are not that stupid?

I also agree with the notion of a revised constitution...clearly whoever drafts the constitution will stack it towards the party that they favor....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power; they even made it a criminal offense, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, to criticize or campaign against the constitution before the referendum; nevertheless the Thaksin-policy supporters won the most seats presumably because a simple look around will show you that there are a lot more poor people in Thailand who like pro-poor policies than there are rich folk driving their Benzes to shop at Ratchprasong...the World Bank report on Thailand in 2006 makes the point that Thaksin-policies halved the poverty rate in Thailand in 5 years, so no wonder he was popular with poor people, and no wonder people turned a blind eye to his corrupt practices, especially as the y think that all politicians are corrupt...

Like you I do not think it is possible to rewrite the constitution in a way that will be acceptable to both the elite and the poor...and rigging the vote to make one pass simply deprives it of legitimacy again....

For me the only way is via some body outside of the country, the UN or some such body, who would construct a constitution perceived as fair by the UN in an open vote, and then have UN monitored elections...but this path forward will not be acceptable to the elite and so is a non starter...which means impasse...

Even if the red shirts are broken at Ratchaprasong, the grievances will still be here and will go underground, with disastrous consequences, in my opinion....

I fear that the solution will come when life here becomes intolerable enough, and the prizes resulting from gaining power are reduced to the extent that people become prepared to make compromises....and sadly this seems a long way off...

You can opinionate all you like about grievances, but the current campaign by the reds is bought and paid for by Thaksin.

Halved the poverty rate in 5 years? Which bullshit hymn-sheet did that come from?

You may push yourself as one of the 'reasonable' reds but your avatar says it all.

Intolerant holocaust denier.

Leave my poor avatar out of it....the World Bank report on Thailand issued in 2006 shortly after Thaksin was illegally removed from office by a military coup....it's available on the internet and easy to look up, but there is no point you reading it, because it praises the economic reforms of Thaksin and you simply don't want to hear anything positive said about Thaksin because you are blinded and paralysed by hate, and you are a stooge for yellow propaganda....debate closed...I've put you on ignore....

[retarius]

In other words the army were able to shoot only villains...or the whole of the red shirt demonstration are criminals?

Don't be silly, the 'police file mugshots' are the pictures from their ID cards...everybody with a Thai ID has a picture looking like this....

Could you in all your wisdom show us your source on the claim that the army shot these people? I doubt you can.

Look I listened to Abhisit telling us that the army used no live rounds; that the army only fired warning shots into the air; and the rest of the yellow propaganda...sorry I don't buy into it....the army left 6000 live rounds behind when they fled and next day asked for it back...I have a group of heavily armed military types trained to shoot who come under fire and you believe that they didn't fire back? What planet are you from? Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

Will we ever learn the truth...no, because the government 'investigation' into the incident is not, and will not be, transparent.

[toptuan]

Last I checked this thread is about a PAD spokesman who had to flee an airport that was blocked by a red caravan. This thread is not about France. This thread is not about various democratic systems. Please stick to the topic guys.

we are on the topic;

Dr Tul has taken a wise decision because we are now in a passionate atmosphere which is spinning out of control.

More and more similar incidents, I am afraid, will occur.

The research for getting out of the current situation and solve the crisis is a higher priority for people of good will.

often it appears that the description of the incident is exagerrated: so cool down fortunately the incident is over and nobody has been hurted.

However, the fact to blow out of proportion such an incident by opening a thread and to want to stick on the track may demonstrate a propaganda operation.

Let us interpret this incident and raise up the dialog.

French this, French that. Your post of detailed events in 1958 in France is not what this thread is about. Because I point this out to you I am therefore a propagandist. Wake up Jerry. Thailand is not France, and this thread is not about France. If you want to talk about France maybe you should find a French forum.

The Red-shirt barricades remind me of the barricades in Les Miserables. There. The French Connection has been established.

[whiterussian]

I've just returned from a visit to a village in rural Sakon Nakhon. The

My main point in raising this is that given this state of affairs, there is little chance in Red villages such as this that there can be free and fair elections in the near future, as a single mob has colonised the minds of the villagers and will not allow alternative voices and points of views to be heard, which was reflected in the actions of the Redshirts in Khon Kaen yesterday and bodes ill, with all the other numerous anti-democratic incidents for the peaceful future of Thailand, Isaan especially. Functional democracy is still a distant dream, I'm afraid.

what is to stop the yellows going to Khon Kaen and winning the hearts and minds of the people there?

The yellows already have all the TV stations! (much of the army, and much of the police (well in theory anyway))

Maybe the yellows dont have a local representative that is 'in' with the voters there... why not??? Maybe they are all in Bangkok!?

Lazy arse excuses more like it! if they want Issan, then buy it, or win it... sour grapes from the junta apologists.

"The end is nigh if the popularly elected respresentatives get elected!" - you saw the same in the UK last time the conservatives got booted out.."there will be blood on the streets (if labour win)" was the headline. <deleted>.

Edited May 1, 2010 by whiterussian

[schuimpje]

In other words the army were able to shoot only villains...or the whole of the red shirt demonstration are criminals?

Don't be silly, the 'police file mugshots' are the pictures from their ID cards...everybody with a Thai ID has a picture looking like this....

Could you in all your wisdom show us your source on the claim that the army shot these people? I doubt you can.

Look I listened to Abhisit telling us that the army used no live rounds; that the army only fired warning shots into the air; and the rest of the yellow propaganda...sorry I don't buy into it....the army left 6000 live rounds behind when they fled and next day asked for it back...I have a group of heavily armed military types trained to shoot who come under fire and you believe that they didn't fire back? What planet are you from? Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

Will we ever learn the truth...no, because the government 'investigation' into the incident is not, and will not be, transparent.

Did you also listen to the dear red leaders claiming that they went to look for Soldiers in the hospital, the press with them, then on stage telling the people that they found evidence of soldiers, even though the press did not see it?

You can be critical of the government, one has to be in a democracy....but critical and distorting the truth to your own benefit are entirely different things. Distortion of the truth or just blantant lies have surely been an invention of our dear red leaders...which would include everyone harking back to our dear upper-red leader and all his cronies.

[animatic]

I've just returned from a visit to a village in rural Sakon Nakhon. The villagers there are mostly Redshirt supporters. They are encouraged by the Headmen and quite a few local govt officials who all think the sun shone out of Thaksin's derriere. The few non-Redshirt supporters or govt sympathisers I've spoken with are afraid to speak out, as they are in the minority. However, I suspect the majority are actually silent, with no strong views one way or the other, but the Reds are loud, brash and boastful. They dominate the political space in the village, making it an intimidating atmosphere for other's to express an opinion.

Since the April 10th bloodshed in BKK, two significant events have happened. One is core Redshirt supporters have set up a community radio station that broadcasts Rednews and propaganda all through the day and late into the evening (not sure of it is 24 hours). This keeps the supporters in touch with what is happening in BKK and elsewhere in the Red Revolution, since the People's Channel was blocked. It also provides music and entertainment of the sort popular in Isaan. Secondly, dozens of VCDs have been distributed to villagers showing a totally lopsided and distorted version of events from before, during and after the April 10th violence. Naturally, the Reds are presented as the heroes and victims, while the govt is presented as the villains and sole instigators of the violence. Abhisit is singled out for particular hatred and vilification for every perceived wrong committed against the Reds. The villagers lap it up as gospel.

My main point in raising this is that given this state of affairs, there is little chance in Red villages such as this that there can be free and fair elections in the near future, as a single mob has colonised the minds of the villagers and will not allow alternative voices and points of views to be heard, which was reflected in the actions of the Redshirts in Khon Kaen yesterday and bodes ill, with all the other numerous anti-democratic incidents for the peaceful future of Thailand, Isaan especially. Functional democracy is still a distant dream, I'm afraid.

Single source indoctrination

Right out of Dr. Weng's 'Modern Mao Cookbook'.

Red Guards give a bottom up cultural revolution,

up the proletariat, down with the intelegencia, rich

and functional capitalist businessmen.

Well we know how well China did with all this.

[schuimpje]

I've just returned from a visit to a village in rural Sakon Nakhon. The

My main point in raising this is that given this state of affairs, there is little chance in Red villages such as this that there can be free and fair elections in the near future, as a single mob has colonised the minds of the villagers and will not allow alternative voices and points of views to be heard, which was reflected in the actions of the Redshirts in Khon Kaen yesterday and bodes ill, with all the other numerous anti-democratic incidents for the peaceful future of Thailand, Isaan especially. Functional democracy is still a distant dream, I'm afraid.

bull**** . what is to stop the yellows going to Khon Kaen and winning the hearts and minds of the people there?

The yellows already have all the TV stations!

lazy arse excuses more like it! if they want Issan, then buy it, or win it... sour grapes from the junta apologists.

"The end is nigh if the popularly elected respresentatives get elected!" - you saw the same in the UK last time the conservatives got booted out.."there will be blood on the streets (if labour win)" was the headline. <deleted>.

What's going to stop them? Fights that are not worth fighting.

Did you ever see what happened to the old lady who supported Abhisit and declared that he is a son of Isaan?

She had red-shirts shouting and screaming at her death-bed and was denied a peaceful end of her life.

That's what is stopping Democrats from campaigning there....

[way2muchcoffee]

what is to stop the yellows going to Khon Kaen and winning the hearts and minds of the people there?

The yellows already have all the TV stations! (much of the army, and much of the police (well in theory anyway))

Maybe the yellows dont have a local representative that is 'in' with the voters there... why not??? Maybe they are all in Bangkok!?

Lazy arse excuses more like it! if they want Issan, then buy it, or win it... sour grapes from the junta apologists.

"The end is nigh if the popularly elected respresentatives get elected!" - you saw the same in the UK last time the conservatives got booted out.."there will be blood on the streets (if labour win)" was the headline. <deleted>.

Well here are a couple of reasons why anti-reds don't feel welcome up north:

PAD supporter killed, 20 others in political violence in Udon Thani

Udon Thani - A supporter of the People's Alliance for Democracy was killed and 20 others were injured when PAD-led protesters clashed with their opponents in this northeastern province Thursday afternoon.

Police said about 1,000 anti-PAD people armed with sticks, machetes and iron bars, stormed into try to demolish the stage of the PAD at about 1:30 pm.

PAD guards tried to fight back and the man was killed in the clash.

The injured people were sent to the provincial hospital.

The Nation

PAD guard killed as 700 opponents storm rally

UDON THANI : A PAD supporter was killed and 17 others injured yesterday when a large mob armed with knives and clubs attacked a People's Alliance for Democracy rally. The clash occurred at Nong Prachak Silapakhom public park in the municipal area, where around 150 PAD supporters were gathering.

About 700 anti-PAD demonstrators armed with machetes, axes, iron bars and wooden sticks stormed the rally site in the afternoon, attacking the PAD supporters and pulling down the stage.

The anti-PAD group was led by Uthai Saenkaew, brother of Deputy Agriculture Minister Theerachai Saenkaew, and Kwanchai Praipana. Mr Uthai allegedly urged his men to kill the PAD guards.

The attackers, in a group calling themselves Khon Rak Udon (We Love Udon), gathered at Thung Sri Muang before marching to Nong Prachak Silapakhom.

Following the attack on the PAD, they paraded around the town and walked back to Thung Sri Muang to celebrate.

The injured were sent to Udon Thani Hospital. The man who died was a PAD security guard. He had suffered an axe blow to the head, according to Veera Somkwamkid, a PAD ally.

Thaikorn Polsuwan, also a PAD ally, lashed out at police yesterday for failing to stop the Khon Rak Udon demonstrators from mounting their attack.

''Police allowed the Khon Rak Udon group in and simply watched them attack us. Khon Rak Udon also stopped ambulances from taking the injured to hospital,'' said Mr Thaikorn.

The clash took place despite extra security measures deployed by the combined 450 forces of provincial police and border patrol police volunteers.

Mr Veera said Mr Kwanchai and police must be held liable for the bloodshed.

But Pol Maj-Gen Permsak Paradasak, chief of Udon Thani police, said officers did their best to prevent violence.

Governor Supoj Laowansiri instructed police to investigate the matter and take appropriate action.

The clash came less than 24 hours after a skirmish between PAD supporters and opponents in Maha Sarakham's Muang district on Wednesday night.

The incident on Wednesday night left dozens injured, including former senator for Buri Ram Karun Saingam, who suffered a mild head injury after being hit by a missile from a slingshot.

In Buri Ram, a PAD rally was scrapped yesterday when anti-PAD demonstrators stormed the rally site and demolished the stage set up in front of a railway station in Muang district.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila demanded the government and the Interior Ministry accept responsibility for failing to stop the violence.

He had asked PAD allies nationwide to join the rally in Bangkok if they believed it was unsafe to demonstrate in their own areas.

Air force commander ACM Chalit Phukpasuk called on both sides to refrain from violence.

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

Edited May 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[whybother]

^ RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK

Edited May 1, 2010 by whybother

[way2muchcoffee]

Here's an example of why Dem's might not feel particularly safe up north.

Stations in Chiang Mai may be shut before visit

Community radio stations in Chiang Mai are being closely monitored and could face closure after reportedly threatening to kill Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva during his planned visit to the province next weekend.

PM's Office Minister Sathit Wongnongtoey said authorities are keeping track of community radio broadcasts in Chiang Mai, which he said have repeatedly incited red shirt supporters to protest against Mr Abhisit's visit to the province on Nov 29 where he will attend a meeting of the chambers of commerce.

Some community radio stations are said to have threatened to kill Mr Abhisit in a bomb attack during his visit.

Mr Sathit said the PM's Office had sent warnings to the stations several times telling them to refrain from any unlawful activity.

"When there is clear evidence that they have violated criminal law and community radio regulations, the stations will be shut down and face legal action," he said.

The minister said he has instructed the authorities concerned to record the broadcasts of the anti-government community radio stations in question.

Mr Sathit said precautions are being taken because the prime minister is being targeted by some elements.

His comments came as Democrat MP for Bangkok Boonyod Sukthinthai lodged a complaint with Crime Suppression Division police against the host of a programme broadcast on FM 92.5 community radio in Chiang Mai.

The complaint demanded an investigation into Phetchawat Wattanapongsirikul, host of the Sapha Kafae (Coffee Council) programme, and his co-host, who was not identified.

Both were accused of encouraging their audience to come out to protest violently against Mr Abhisit.

Mr Boonyod also handed over audio clips of the programme broadcasts to the CSD for further investigation.

But Mr Abhisit yesterday said he would travel to Chiang Mai next weekend as planned. He expressed confidence in the security authorities.

"Nothing has changed yet because I have confidence in the authorities in charge of providing security," he said.

Extra-tight security is being planned. Twenty companies of police and another 20 companies of troops from the 3rd Army will be deployed during the prime minister's visit.

Mr Abhisit also warned the radio stations that they faced possible legal action for making death threats and told the authorities to keep a close watch on the stations' broadcasts.

Mr Abhisit will travel to Chiang Mai, the political stronghold of the opposition Puea Thai Party, to attend a seminar at the invitation of the Thai chambers of commerce around the country.

He will give a lecture to northern businessmen on economic affairs.

The prime minister warned Thaksin Shinawatra's supporters in Chiang Mai to stop their hostile action, saying they should work with the government to bring about peace and reconciliation in the province.

"Frankly speaking, Chiang Mai has lost a lot of opportunities because of political conflicts despite the fact that the government gives full backing to every area," he said.

Wittaya Krongsap, secretary-general of the Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce, expressed concern that the event would be exploited by interest groups.

Mr Abhisit also said the cabinet would also consider whether to implement the Internal Security Act during the cabinet meeting on Tuesday to control a planned red shirt rally in Bangkok.

The pro-Thaksin United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship is calling a major rally on Nov 28 in Bangkok.

"The government cannot surrender (to the red shirt protesters), if they do anything illegal," Mr Abhisit said.

He asked the red shirts to stop their planned protest because he would not submit to their demands to dissolve the House and call a general election.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the government needs to assess the situation before it decides whether to invoke the security law.

"We are considering invoking the security law because they say that they are going to bring down the government. I am still haunted by the Songkran riots," Mr Suthep said.

Edited May 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

Here's an example of why Dem's might not feel particularly safe up north.

Stations in Chiang Mai may be shut before visit

Community radio stations in Chiang Mai are being closely monitored and could face closure after reportedly threatening to kill Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva during his planned visit to the province next weekend.

PM's Office Minister Sathit Wongnongtoey said authorities are keeping track of community radio broadcasts in Chiang Mai, which he said have repeatedly incited red shirt supporters to protest against Mr Abhisit's visit to the province on Nov 29 where he will attend a meeting of the chambers of commerce.

Some community radio stations are said to have threatened to kill Mr Abhisit in a bomb attack during his visit.

Mr Sathit said the PM's Office had sent warnings to the stations several times telling them to refrain from any unlawful activity.

"When there is clear evidence that they have violated criminal law and community radio regulations, the stations will be shut down and face legal action," he said.

The minister said he has instructed the authorities concerned to record the broadcasts of the anti-government community radio stations in question.

Mr Sathit said precautions are being taken because the prime minister is being targeted by some elements.

His comments came as Democrat MP for Bangkok Boonyod Sukthinthai lodged a complaint with Crime Suppression Division police against the host of a programme broadcast on FM 92.5 community radio in Chiang Mai.

The complaint demanded an investigation into Phetchawat Wattanapongsirikul, host of the Sapha Kafae (Coffee Council) programme, and his co-host, who was not identified.

Both were accused of encouraging their audience to come out to protest violently against Mr Abhisit.

Mr Boonyod also handed over audio clips of the programme broadcasts to the CSD for further investigation.

But Mr Abhisit yesterday said he would travel to Chiang Mai next weekend as planned. He expressed confidence in the security authorities.

"Nothing has changed yet because I have confidence in the authorities in charge of providing security," he said.

Extra-tight security is being planned. Twenty companies of police and another 20 companies of troops from the 3rd Army will be deployed during the prime minister's visit.

Mr Abhisit also warned the radio stations that they faced possible legal action for making death threats and told the authorities to keep a close watch on the stations' broadcasts.

Mr Abhisit will travel to Chiang Mai, the political stronghold of the opposition Puea Thai Party, to attend a seminar at the invitation of the Thai chambers of commerce around the country.

He will give a lecture to northern businessmen on economic affairs.

The prime minister warned Thaksin Shinawatra's supporters in Chiang Mai to stop their hostile action, saying they should work with the government to bring about peace and reconciliation in the province.

"Frankly speaking, Chiang Mai has lost a lot of opportunities because of political conflicts despite the fact that the government gives full backing to every area," he said.

Wittaya Krongsap, secretary-general of the Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce, expressed concern that the event would be exploited by interest groups.

Mr Abhisit also said the cabinet would also consider whether to implement the Internal Security Act during the cabinet meeting on Tuesday to control a planned red shirt rally in Bangkok.

The pro-Thaksin United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship is calling a major rally on Nov 28 in Bangkok.

"The government cannot surrender (to the red shirt protesters), if they do anything illegal," Mr Abhisit said.

He asked the red shirts to stop their planned protest because he would not submit to their demands to dissolve the House and call a general election.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the government needs to assess the situation before it decides whether to invoke the security law.

"We are considering invoking the security law because they say that they are going to bring down the government. I am still haunted by the Songkran riots," Mr Suthep said.

Residents of Chiang Mai well remember the last time the Democrats campaigned here. It was on the campus of Chiang Mai University where a paid mob of Thaksin supporters attacked the gathering. Red Democracy!

[craigt3365]

Just finished watching the Red's VCD on the 10th April events.

Will it's gross to watch, couple of things I noticed.

1. There's only about 7 minutes of original footage, mainly from parliament, day-time scenes and just text on a colored background spread over the course of 25 minutes in total.

2. Actual footage from the 10th April events count for about 1.5 minutes out of this 7 minutes.

3. Rest of the CD is repeat after repeat after repeat with sometimes scenes cleverly looped to make it look like a scene of 2 minutes where it's actually only 10 seconds worth of material. There are also many scenes that are used in various different scenarios. They have maybe one or two scenes from military that are used over and over again at the end of various different 'scenes' to show military shooting at different locations...

The best shot however I find is where they show the red's the next day, mourning over their fallen comrades.

It's somewhere around the 13.50 mark.

Why is this the best shot?

While I deplore all violence and absolutely mourn all victims of this situation so far, looking at that scene did make me wonder.

From the 14 Picture Frames on the table, there is only 1 frame with a 'normal' picture of the deceased person.

All the other frames contain Police File Mug Shots...!

13 Former criminals died that night.

Gives you something to think about.

Normal people did not die out there because they stay out of trouble, except for some unlucky people that got into the cross fire and of course the soldiers that where sent into battle for which I have the greatest respect, given that they had only received half the mandate necessary to clean this up.

People looking for trouble, according to those pictures, did die that night.

Sorry for being so cold-hearted, but it puts a slightly different perspective on things I think.

I have been looking at the pics of the reds inside the barricade in Bangkok. Wifey looked at them today also. Her first comment was "these people look mean!" They are not young protesters...they are hard core trouble makers. Paid to do a job. Really sad...

[whybother]

Residents of Chiang Mai well remember the last time the Democrats campaigned here. It was on the campus of Chiang Mai University where a paid mob of Thaksin supporters attacked the gathering. Red Democracy!

It seems that whenever there is a protest against Thaksin, PPP, or anyone on the red side, there are reds either turning up at the protest causing mayhem, stopping people getting to the protest, or threatening them in some way.

The reds really don't understand democracy, do they.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK

[KireB]

In other words the army were able to shoot only villains...or the whole of the red shirt demonstration are criminals?

Don't be silly, the 'police file mugshots' are the pictures from their ID cards...everybody with a Thai ID has a picture looking like this....

Could you in all your wisdom show us your source on the claim that the army shot these people? I doubt you can.

Look I listened to Abhisit telling us that the army used no live rounds; that the army only fired warning shots into the air; and the rest of the yellow propaganda...sorry I don't buy into it....the army left 6000 live rounds behind when they fled and next day asked for it back...I have a group of heavily armed military types trained to shoot who come under fire and you believe that they didn't fire back? What planet are you from? Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

Will we ever learn the truth...no, because the government 'investigation' into the incident is not, and will not be, transparent.

So you are your own source! Very reliable Please keep in mind that when the truth will come out, it might be that reds killed their own! They needed a bloody incident, they were practicaly begging for it to happen and it did! Probably an inside job as video footage demonstrates. And after the killing, the parading of coffins and dead bodies. Its so obvious!

[Siripon]

Last I checked this thread is about a PAD spokesman who had to flee an airport that was blocked by a red caravan. This thread is not about France. This thread is not about various democratic systems. Please stick to the topic guys.

we are on the topic;

Dr Tul has taken a wise decision because we are now in a passionate atmosphere which is spinning out of control.

More and more similar incidents, I am afraid, will occur.

The research for getting out of the current situation and solve the crisis is a higher priority for people of good will.

often it appears that the description of the incident is exagerrated: so cool down fortunately the incident is over and nobody has been hurted.

However, the fact to blow out of proportion such an incident by opening a thread and to want to stick on the track may demonstrate a propaganda operation.

Let us interpret this incident and raise up the dialog.

The reds have been doing this for a long time now, Chuan Leekpai and the Democrats had to flee Chiang Mai when canvassing before the last election, the police have been ineffective in preventing intimidation all along, watch the video of Kwanchai exorting red thuds with sticks and bars to maim the PAD in Udon- that must be nearly 2 years ago now.

In a way the PAD were the first to try this technique of running opponents out of town, ie any PPP MP entering the south, but the reds having stronger and tougher men followers have brutalised the technique.

Tough prison sentences are needed.

[brahmburgers]

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

The more I hear about Kwangchai, the more I think he might be even more of a loose cannon than Seh Dang Kittaya, if that's possible. They're both very dangerous people and should have been locked up long ago. They're unabashedly out for blood, particularly to harm and kill PAD members. They represent the absolute worst in Thai/human nature.

A couple cold kills by gov't security snipers would be completely justified at this time.

As for amnesty. There will surely be talk of amnesty when this winds up. I strongly urge gov't not to offer any amnesties, except for people who implicate others of illegal acts, including details and names, which lead to convictions. In the same vein, I urge the government to hang tough with investigating and prosecuting all who break the law. Message to gov't: you've wimped out in trying to stem the spread of the rallies - please don't wimp out when it comes time to mete out justice. The Thai people deserve no less than firm justice and strict sentences for all who are breaking the law and intimidating and harming others.

Edited May 1, 2010 by brahmburgers

[craigt3365]

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

The more I hear about Kwangchai, the more I think he might be even more of a loose cannon than Seh Dang Kittaya, if that's possible. They're both very dangerous people and should have been locked up long ago. They're unabashedly out for blood, particularly to harm and kill PAD members. They represent the absolute worst in Thai/human nature.

A cold kill by a gov't security sniper would completely justified at this time.

I have to admit I can't understand why this hasn't happened yet? No red leader arrested, no red leader shot at...but plenty of "yellow" folks bombed, attacked, etc. Can anyone explain?

[schuimpje]

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

The more I hear about Kwangchai, the more I think he might be even more of a loose cannon than Seh Dang Kittaya, if that's possible. They're both very dangerous people and should have been locked up long ago. They're unabashedly out for blood, particularly to harm and kill PAD members. They represent the absolute worst in Thai/human nature.

A cold kill by a gov't security sniper would completely justified at this time.

I have to admit I can't understand why this hasn't happened yet? No red leader arrested, no red leader shot at...but plenty of "yellow" folks bombed, attacked, etc. Can anyone explain?

It is very simple to explain...This government works by the rule of the law. When you work with the laws that govern your country, no such act can be justified or you are just as bad as the evil you are trying to fight...

[way2muchcoffee]

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

The more I hear about Kwangchai, the more I think he might be even more of a loose cannon than Seh Dang Kittaya, if that's possible. They're both very dangerous people and should have been locked up long ago. They're unabashedly out for blood, particularly to harm and kill PAD members. They represent the absolute worst in Thai/human nature.

A couple cold kills by gov't security snipers would be completely justified at this time.

As for amnesty. There will surely be talk of amnesty when this winds up. I strongly urge gov't not to offer any amnesties, except for people who implicate others of illegal acts, including details and names, which lead to convictions. In the same vein, I urge the government to hang tough with investigating and prosecuting all who break the law. Message to gov't: you've wimped out in trying to stem the spread of the rallies - please don't wimp out when it comes time to mete out justice. The Thai people deserve no less than firm justice and strict sentences for all who are breaking the law and intimidating and harming others.

I believe, without evidence, that this is the reason the last round of talks failed a week or so ago. I think the government was unwilling to grant amnesties and the red leaders said 'that's it then, no more talking', or something to that effect. I admit it is pure speculation, but that feels just feels like how it would have gone down.

[LuckyLew]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

[hextac]

Wow this kind of activity really shows how

serious the red shirts are about democracy

Indeed it does, and the PAD apologists advocating shooting people does too.

[Moruya]

Every time a party is disbanded because of individual actions and you ban the leaders (which may have not been involved in the fiddling) from politic for a long period, you push people to work outside the normalcy.

Every time you issue a warrant against a political leader, you push him to work outside the normalcy..

Or there will be an amnesty in the final agreement or we are heading to a Larger confrontation.

I am afraid the amnesty is not something acceptable by the government and will not be accepted by its supporters ...so the logic is ....Confrontation.

Think about that: everytime a summon, a warrant, every time the situation will be leaving a little more the normalcy because the leaders will continue to work but "out of the box" and the logic is: it will be deepening.

Think also about the assault and imtimidation that the TRT, PPP etc. bring to all opposition leaders/canvassers in certain parts of the country. Democracy at work mate.