Advice For An Intermediate Student

[StChris]

Hi

I've been studying Thai by myself for over a year now on and off, and have reached a level when I can converse about basic things very easily (without having to think in English and translate in my head) and can read and write a little too. I just need some advice to making the jump from intermediate to advanced:

1) I took an informal test at one of the schools in Bangkok last week and was told I would be placed in level 7 (ie, the 1 month courses which follow level 6 on specific subjects, eg Buddhism, Social Problems, Reading Newspapers etc.). Has anyone taken any of these are they worth it? What about the AUA course? I've been impressed with their youtube videos and would like to take some of their classes, but what about their reading and writing course - any experiences?

2) I might put a notice at Thammasat University looking for a language exchange, but don't know how much of a benefit this would be. What's the best way to make these meetings productive (both for me and them)? Should we read out aloud to each other and just correct our pronunciation? Maybe go through Thai schoolbooks? It seems pointless just to talk, as I can do that anywhere witrh anyone!

3) A bit of a strange question perhaps, but here goes: As I said, I can carry on a basic conversation very easily now, and probably should start using those particles and sounds that don't have any meaning by themselves, but which Thai people use to add emotion and colour to their speech, but I seem to have a psychological problem with using them. I have a strange feeling that I'm losing myself, becoming too Thai perhaps; or even worse, that I'm pretending to be Thai, that I'm acting almost, being fake, not myself. The same with using the different personal pronouns. Maybe there's some cultural resistance on my part, but I think I'd like to overcome this, to sound more natural. Maybe this is just me tough :-s

Any other general advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[StChris]

Did anyone take the new Grade 6 Equivalency Examination last December? The school I went to said they offer a course, so I might be interested, but I'm afraid that it might just be 3 month cramming course designed to get the best mark in the exam and that my actual Thai wouldn't actually improve that much.

[kriswillems]

I studied the social problems module. It's extremely useful because people talk a lot about social problems. The course introduces a lot of new vocabulary. The conversations in the course book had more "talking language" than the other modules, which was a pleasant change.

I did the the level test. The preparation course is indeed focussed at passing the exam. It's pretty intensive and hard. After this course I realized I knew only very little about Thai language. You'll learn something from it for sure. I passed the level test and am on P.6 level (level 3) for writing and M.3 level (level 5) for the other skills, according to my score. I think they my score was much higher than my real level is.

[StChris]

Thanks. How many of the modules do you have to do before you're ready for the P6 preparation course? Where did you study?

[mikenyork]

I don't have much experience with formal study of Thai, but I have studied the language for more years than I want to admit. I would like to comment on your particles and pronouns dilemma. It's one I think most Thai speakers struggle with sooner or later. I use particles when I'm comfortable doing so, but discovered in the process that the pronunciation and usage depends on gender, age, (relative) position, education, etc., etc. So, just be sure you're imitating a man of about your age and education and not (as was the case with me at one time, my then-wife!) As for pronouns, I have tried! For me, I've decided that I will just never, ever have the inner sense of who I am relative to who I'm talking to that Thais automatically have. I think it's parallel to Thais' struggle with tenses in English. They never seem to develop the inner sense of where they're standing on the time line and which way they are facing. They can kind of fake it, but it's not really the same. This is my experience with pronouns. I can fake it for a while, until I get angry or excited at which point it all goes away and we're back to "phom" "khun" even if I'm talking to one of my kids!

So I don't really have any advice, just some experience to share. Best of luck in your studies.

[kriswillems]

Thanks. How many of the modules do you have to do before you're ready for the P6 preparation course? Where did you study?

If you start from zero, you normally have to do 7 months (for book 1 to 7, so 1 month per book) or 8 to 9 month if you also do the social problems or newspaper-course first.

I studied Thai via self-study before I entered Thailand. I could read very slowly with a very bad pronunciation.

Once in Thailand, I studied 3 hours per day, from Monday to Friday.

I skipped book 1 because it was too easy.

I skipped book 4 and 5 because I learned to read and write by myself (book 4, 5 and 6 are about writing Thai).

I studied book 6 together with book 3, so I studied 6 hours per day for about 1 month.

I studied about social problems.

I had 2 months of private courses with the school director, about 4 hours per week (for exam preparation).

I never spoke Thai at home or at work.

After that I did the test.

I think I am still at beginner level. There are still many things in Thai language that are a real challenge for me. I have great difficulties understanding poems (even poems for children) and it's hard for me to understand people that speak a less polite or rural kind of Thai. My pronunciation is still not perfect and sometimes I've to repeat words and/or sentences when talking to Thai people. My writing is far from perfect. My reading skills are pretty good.

I studied at Piammitr, but there are many other schools that have an almost identical study method and books.

[farangnahrak]

To be honest, I find pronouns and ending particles pretty easy.

As for ending particles, there is no comparable word for them in English. However, when you speed English, you use tones to express emotion or add extra meaning. In Thai, you use ending particles. Just swap out those tones for the appropriate ending particle.

Browse the Thai language forums, Thai people love to use every possible ending particle you can imagine. It'll give you good practice. You'll also notice ครับ and ค่ะ each have a half dozen or so different variations, each dependent on the situation.

When I speak ending particles, I sorta just 'feel' it when I say it . . . if that makes any sense . . . The ending particle sorta fits my tone of voice when I speak. I actually think ending particles are fun to use, as one little syllable contains soooo much meaning.

for example:

อะไร? - What?

อะไรนะ? - I'm sorry I didn't catch that, can you say it one more time please?

อะไรว่ะ? - What the f&%k did you say?

อะไรว๊ะ? - What the f&%k?

อะไรอ้า? - What the heck?

There are like 100 more ending particles, this can go on forever . . .

As for the language school tests, they don't really mean much. Try out Thai elementary school workbooks to judge your true skill. If you've studied for only a year, you'll probably struggle with the 2nd grade book. I've studied 1.5 hours/day everyday for the last 6 years, and I struggle with the 5th grader books. But then again, the average 5th grader is 11 years old, so perhaps I'm not as dumb as I feel. Then when I look at the highschool level books . . . I can answer like 1 in 20 questions . . . so depressing . . . at my rate, probably 4 more years to reach highschool level . . .

[schmutzie]

WRT to the OPs 3rd question:

I think what you describe is something anyone experiences when they reach a certain level of fluency, not just in Thai, but in other languages/cultures/countries too. Personally I don't have any solution for you other than to roll with and see it as an opportunity

for you to use as you see fit and play with the Thai you know.

I've discussed this with other people/foreigners, not concerning Thai or Thailand, but I think the same applies here. Some just see

it as no problem whereas others have the reaction you describe. Like, you end up saying things that actually "aren't you".

I think you should take this as a completely positive thing. It probably just means you've reached the point where you can start to

really enjoy things without language being in the way. I'm quite jealous. But I've gone through this grinder once before and I thought

it was tough and it's made me reluctant to ever put in the effort again to learn a new language to the point where you can work and live

like a native of the country.

You could if you want, look at some stuff about secondary language and cognitive research. I think the basic fact is that your native language

fires up certain areas of the brain that basically makes you fell "comfortable" when speaking it. That's a slightly gross way to put it, but that's

how I feel and I think it relates to the issue you've brought up - you'll never feel "at home" in a second language.

[StChris]

Thnaks everybody.

I think I need to adopt a role model and copy them, and then start adopting it to my own personality.

Would buying lots of Thai school books and going through them with a language exchange partner be a good idea?

Hope the initial post didn't sound too downhearted, I'm actually really optimistic about things. Eventually I want to take a Mandarin Chinese course here in Thailand, so getting two languages for the price of one.

[StChris]

I'll also give AUA a try as soon as it opens again (closed due to the red-shirts)

[nakachalet]

To be honest, I find pronouns and ending particles pretty easy.

As for ending particles, there is no comparable word for them in English. However, when you speed English, you use tones to express emotion or add extra meaning. In Thai, you use ending particles. Just swap out those tones for the appropriate ending particle.

Browse the Thai language forums, Thai people love to use every possible ending particle you can imagine. It'll give you good practice. You'll also notice ครับ and ค่ะ each have a half dozen or so different variations, each dependent on the situation.

When I speak ending particles, I sorta just 'feel' it when I say it . . . if that makes any sense . . . The ending particle sorta fits my tone of voice when I speak. I actually think ending particles are fun to use, as one little syllable contains soooo much meaning.

for example:

อะไร? - What?

อะไรนะ? - I'm sorry I didn't catch that, can you say it one more time please?

อะไรว่ะ? - What the f&%k did you say?

อะไรว๊ะ? - What the f&%k?

อะไรอ้า? - What the heck?

There are like 100 more ending particles, this can go on forever . . .

As for the language school tests, they don't really mean much. Try out Thai elementary school workbooks to judge your true skill. If you've studied for only a year, you'll probably struggle with the 2nd grade book. I've studied 1.5 hours/day everyday for the last 6 years, and I struggle with the 5th grader books. But then again, the average 5th grader is 11 years old, so perhaps I'm not as dumb as I feel. Then when I look at the highschool level books . . . I can answer like 1 in 20 questions . . . so depressing . . . at my rate, probably 4 more years to reach highschool level . . .

while i am writing this.... there are plenty of interferences from other members of the family members.... LOL

and i can not focus very well....

อะไรอ้า? - <What the heck?> it is rather.... what on earth....? an exclamation

อะไรอะ? - What is it? used when speaking to someone our junior.... when speaking with someone equalled or senior.... it is more polite to use....

อะไรครับ/ค่ะ? - What is happening.... what is it....? what did you say pls....?