Thai PM Abhisit Says Working On Roadmap To End Crisis

[Redsunset]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

I notice that he has just called elections for mid November. Does this mean the red shirts will be on the streets for another 6 months and more??

Landofthefree, yes it does mean that.....

[lannarebirth]

This is such BS.... there isn't a "roadmap" in the world that will be acceptable for everyone... Abhisit is really bad at making decisions, isn't he? Horrible at taking accountability... likes to use "democracy" as an excuse not to make tough choices

And I agree with the comments above.... why does he even have to tell us this? He has been saying the same tired thing over and over again. "I have a solution, just wait...." that is a lot of nonsense.

He will not act, will he? He is waiting for the world to end first.

Let's face facts. Thailand and therefore Abhisit has an almost incalculable number of heretofore neglected "issues" and rogue personalities to deal with. Each is a variable that can derail any progress he hopes to make. I think he's trying to either neutralize, bring under his fold, or kill off a large number of these variables with a single solution. Hopefully a not too messy solution. If he can pull it off he wins the Nobel Peace prize, if he can't The military is gonna step in as there's just too much entropy in Thailand as things stand now. Best of luck to him.

Precisely, Lannar.... you can't create a comprehensive roadmap to solve an entire countries woes in a few day and in a 20 minute speech... actually after reading it again, it is just a bunch of hot air and nice to haves... but way to short on substance... in my view, there is nothing there, really. You can't cure the whole thing in one go... besides, didn't he forget to include the red shirts in crafting this roadmap? I mean you can't expect commitment if they have not been involved.... The Prime Minister's Roadmap is a total waste of time... a good start, but a helluva long way to go.

The solution is a "process", as he outlined. Starting that process is what he's done tonight. He can't unilaterally tell everyone the way things are gonna be, because 1) no one would listen, 2) evryone would fight him 3) that's not why he's there.

Edited May 3, 2010 by lannarebirth

[way2muchcoffee]

From Terryfrd tweets:

Abhisit says he is proposing a way to reconciliation and asks everyone to take a role. There are five parts (for reconciliation to be successful).

1. Preservation of monarchy: keeping monarchy out of politics, create a proper understanding or role of monarchy.

2. In actuality, problems do not come from politics directly, but from inequities in society. Many protesters feel left out. A big problem. These problems need to be addressed through social security programs, education, debt, income enhancement, etc.

3. This is an era of communication. Freedom of information important, but with technology has also come misuse of media. Media must have freedom, but it must be responsible, must not deliberately distort or incite. Need to provide fair oversight.

4. There have been many violent incidents, causing greater divisions in society. Apr 10, Silom, Vipawadhi, Chulal Hospital, etc. All have caused psychological distress. All of these incidents must be investigated by independent agencies.

5. Directly related to politics and elections: The past 4 - 5 years have led to feelings of dissatisfaction in fairness of system. We need to work together to solve these problems, in terms of the constitution, right to assembly, basic problems leading to disunity.

This will not be successful without cooperation of all elements of society: parties, parliament, local organizations. If we can stabilize situation starting today, we can schedule an election for November 14

As for UDD, I have heard you. I have heard your demands, but I cannot accept a dissolution in 15 or 30 days. I believe this proposal is consistent with society based on law and principles of our democracy. Reconciliation must be based on compromise. This proposal is for all Thais. If UDD can't accept it, we'll keep moving forward, but I can specify a particular election date. PM ends by hoping that this Wednesday, Coronation Day, can be a day of genuine celebration.

I must say I am satisfied. When you compare the quote above along with The Nation tweets you get the full picture of what this speech was about. It is a humble and sincere effort begin the peace process.

He has hit all points and offered a worthy plan for reconciliation. Finally he has stepped up to the plate and become a PM. I was beginning to worry. Now it is up to the UDD and their followers. They will either accept the compromise or they won't.

Edited May 3, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[dobadoy]

The Prime Minister's Roadmap is a total waste of time... a good start, but a helluva long way to go.

You're not really making sense here, are you? Is it a total waste of time or a good start?

Red logic...

[elcent]

Army spokesman Abhisit just announced the Marshall plan

-- The Nation

PM announces next election will be held on Nov 14

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced Monday night on TV that he will hold the next election on November 14 if if his roadmap to solve the political problems is not interrupted.

He said the road map has five elements as following:

1) All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy.

2) The government will carry out national reform to do away with injustice in the economic and olitical structures.

As part of the process, the government will provide good social welfare, education, health etc, as well as other things to people suffering from other plights.

3) The government will ensure that the media will function as a constructive tool.

4) The government will set up an independent committee to investigate the deaths and injuries in clashes between troops, police and protesters on April 10, at Silom and on Vibhavadi Road.

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

what an achievement after 2 months, sure they all need to go to a spa now. To much of brain-cell teasings doesn't bode well within their small capacities.

[Neurath]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

What, specifically, would you have him 'get done'? How specifically would you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

Since you say a moron could have done or do better perhaps you should tell us? That would be appropriate.

[elcent]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

What, specifically, would you have him 'get done'? How specifically would you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

Since you say a moron could have done or do better perhaps you should tell us? That would be appropriate.

time and tide wait for no man. - that's all. It's about timing and money.

Today the banks transfered the money in the game to the finance ministry. So it's safe to say it's all about the money, on both sides. But the confiscated money will be hardly enough to cover the damages done within the last 2 months.

Suddenly now we see a vague Marshall plan for further procedures, as everything is very vague the army announces through its spokesman Abhisit.

What is really in for the people in general? Wait, let me use the calculator. Oh, it says 0, zero, nothing, nadda.

[basjke]

The reds are able to block everything including a train with armed soldiers.But the government is not able to block the food supply to the protesters?

They could have done this 6 weeks ago and all the reds would have been back on their rice paddy long time already by now without using 1 bullit.

Like to see you try and run the country then!

Abhisit has I believe been under a lot of pressure by his advisors as well, he is not the only one running the country you have to realize.

They have had to tread so carefully up till now.

Tell us what is so difficult or wrong with blocking the entrance roads to the protesting site.With denying the food suppliers to reach the site you don't harm anyone or break any laws.You just prevent the enemy from getting supplied and force them to end their protests voluntary.

P.s. Don't ask me to run the country because you would see something totally different.

[retdson]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

What, specifically, would you have him 'get done'? How specifically would you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

Since you say a moron could have done or do better perhaps you should tell us? That would be appropriate.

time and tide wait for no man. - that's all. It's about timing and money.

Today the banks transfered the money in the game to the finance ministry. So it's safe to say it's all about the money, on both sides. But the confiscated money will be hardly enough to cover the damages done within the last 2 months.

Suddenly now we see a vague Marshall plan for further procedures, as everything is very vague the army announces through its spokesman Abhisit.

What is really in for the people in general? Wait, let me use the calculator. Oh, it says 0, zero, nothing, nadda.

Well, there might be a working democracy in it. The longer this goes on the more respect I have for Abhisit. Unlike 99.9% of his compatriots he actually seems to understand that a working democracy will come stillborn from a bloody clampdown or conversely, an abject government climbdown. So he's holding the ring until some kind of trust and consensus can be forged. Of course, there are a goodly number of Thais on both sides who have no interest whatsoever in a democracy except in name - but Abhisit doesn't appear to be one of them. It seems to me he's trying (almost single-handedly) to guide his country away from what a poster on here called the 'infantile' approach to conflict resolution and politics, towards a political dispensation that's fitted to a modern industrialized state in the 21st century. All power to him.

[Neurath]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

What, specifically, would you have him 'get done'? How specifically would you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

Since you say a moron could have done or do better perhaps you should tell us? That would be appropriate.

time and tide wait for no man. - that's all. It's about timing and money.

Today the banks transfered the money in the game to the finance ministry. So it's safe to say it's all about the money, on both sides. But the confiscated money will be hardly enough to cover the damages done within the last 2 months.

Suddenly now we see a vague Marshall plan for further procedures, as everything is very vague the army announces through its spokesman Abhisit.

What is really in for the people in general? Wait, let me use the calculator. Oh, it says 0, zero, nothing, nadda.

"What is really in for the people in general? Wait, let me use the calculator. Oh, it says 0, zero, nothing, nadda."

You expected Abhisit to detail an election platform outlining what's "in it for the people in general?"

That's what the election campaign is for.

On the one hand there are those saying: "brook no compromise, go in and kill the protesters, clear em out."

On the other hand there are those saying: "accept no compromise until all the ills of social inequity are resolved - which a house dissolution in 15 or 30 days will assuredly fix."

Both hands are on appendages.

[Neurath]

That's it.... I am fed up with Abhisit. He is a smart guy, but he is just proof positive that an Oxford Degree means nothing when you have to get things done. It means nothing when you have to make tough decisions.

Abhisit is great on the sidelines, critiquing, debating, speaking eloquently, but he is a DISASTER when it comes to leading. I mean the guy probably should have known he was a lousy leader when the somtom stand he opened when he was 15 went bankrupt in its first week... Jeeeez!

Abhist is boardering on USELESS, during this crisis... I mean a moron could have done better than him. And consider this... I like Abhisit as a person! He seems like a nice guy!!!

What, specifically, would you have him 'get done'? How specifically would you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

Since you say a moron could have done or do better perhaps you should tell us? That would be appropriate.

time and tide wait for no man. - that's all. It's about timing and money.

Today the banks transfered the money in the game to the finance ministry. So it's safe to say it's all about the money, on both sides. But the confiscated money will be hardly enough to cover the damages done within the last 2 months.

Suddenly now we see a vague Marshall plan for further procedures, as everything is very vague the army announces through its spokesman Abhisit.

What is really in for the people in general? Wait, let me use the calculator. Oh, it says 0, zero, nothing, nadda.

Well, there might be a working democracy in it. The longer this goes on the more respect I have for Abhisit. Unlike 99.9% of his compatriots he actually seems to understand that a working democracy will come stillborn from a bloody clampdown or conversely, an abject government climbdown. So he's holding the ring until some kind of trust and consensus can be forged. Of course, there are a goodly number of Thais on both sides who have no interest whatsoever in a democracy except in name - but Abhisit doesn't appear to be one of them. It seems to me he's trying (almost single-handedly) to guide his country away from what a poster on here called the 'infantile' approach to conflict resolution and politics, towards a political dispensation that's fitted to a modern industrialized state in the 21st century. All power to him.

That seems just about right.

1.Bloody clampdown = calamity.

2.Abject climbdown = disastrous.

It may be possible to deal the social and cultural ills of the country, but certainly not if the above obtain.

[JohnLeech]

Not addressed to me, but I'll still respond (my comments are the ones in a neutral blue)

"The armoured vehicles will provide safety for the authorities and protesters as there are armed groups at the protests.

More absurdities! How exactly are armoured vehicles safer for the protesters? I've yet to see a light tank, or for that matter a main battle tank, that is safe heading for unarmed or lightly armed protesters. APC's are also dangerous in close quarters for the untrained.

If the attack does take place being in an armoured vehicle trying to smash through a burning tyre wall isn't such a great idea either! The rancid smoke and the heat can be intense.

Your comments are utter nonsense.

Armored carriers are used in conflicts around the world. Yes, but seldom as a direct weapon in civilian crowd control. That is why they are called "carriers", not "crowd crushers".

Do you really think the operators are untrained? Compared to what/who? Judging by their performance so far, evidently "yes".

I guess you were not here during Vietnam were you? No - what is the connection?

The Thai military can take care of themselves the same as any other military. It all depends on which "other mlitary" you are referring to.

Tires and Bamboo are no match for the modern armored carriers Not in a fair fight, no. I doubt if it will be one, however.

As far as smoke and heat, that is a dead giveaway you have no clue about these vehicles Possibly more of a clue than you; smoke and heat are major problems for any APC and present particular problems for the drivers.

The amored vehicle would go right through these barricades and are well protected from heat and smoke. See above. Most APCs have an over-pressure system, which is only effective when the vehicle is fully closed down and which makes accurate manouevering in an urban area particularly difficult.

The inside is equipped with smoke googles and other equipment designed for this mission. "Smoke goggles"? Presumably you mean thermal imaging equipment. Thailand's APCs have no such equipment for the drivers that can be used when closed down and they would, in any case, be of very limited use in these circumstances.

What the vehicles can do is open up the barricades without subjecting soldiers to getting shot No, what they can do is crush the barricades and anyone behind them, if that is the plan and if they are driven properly.

Once the barricades are opened, chaos ensues as the reds won't hold any kind of military line and it will be easy to see who is running away and who is standing to shoot and fight. Agreed - chaos.

This is 101 around the world. Where? Name any democracy where this is standard practice.

It is the best way to eliminate loss of life on the soldiers part. If that is your only consideration, you may just as well machine gun the protesters from a safe distance. Presumably those involved have other factors to consider.

"Utter nonsense"? You appear to be an expert on the subject (but not on the subject of crowd control or APCs)

[JohnLeech]

Abhisit is a terrible administrator.... a NIGHTMARE.

I disagree - Abhisit is quite a good administrator. Unfortunately he is a useless leader under pressure.

[JohnLeech]

The reds are able to block everything including a train with armed soldiers.But the government is not able to block the food supply to the protesters?

They could have done this 6 weeks ago and all the reds would have been back on their rice paddy long time already by now without using 1 bullit.

They could (and should) have done a lot of things several weeks ago. Instead they did the opposite, complicating what should have been a simple problem beyond recognition. Hardly a good sign of their ability to run a country or re-write a constitution.

[elcent]

Abhisit is a terrible administrator.... a NIGHTMARE.

I disagree - Abhisit is quite a good administrator. Unfortunately he is a useless leader under pressure.

- more like a groomed poodle.

[fullcave]

Abhisit is a terrible administrator.... a NIGHTMARE.

I disagree - Abhisit is quite a good administrator. Unfortunately he is a useless leader under pressure.

- more like a groomed poodle.

Really. Then tell us who's the "groomer" sparky?

Edited May 3, 2010 by fullcave

[jayjay0]

Just my opinion but it looks like the end is in sight. What started out as a win win situation ended at the first mediation failure. It then became a win lose situation. On April 10 it became a lose lose situation. Both sides were dug in and being Thai neither could admit to there mistake hence nothing solved.

No matter what happens Thailand will be the loser. If the current government retains power we will have in effect a army controlled country. Doe's any one else wonder how Abhist can snap his fingers and the army comes running. This is the same army that sat around and watched the yellow shirts putt a strangle hold on Tourism and manufacturing by shutting down the airports.

This is the same army that managed to kill 19 red shirts with rubber bullets and when the red shirts returned what they had taken it turned out that one in six of the bullets was rubber. This is the same army that towed barge loads of refuge out into the middle of nowhere after they removed the engines and were allowed to do there own investigation into it. No outsiders need for this investigation

On the other hand we have the red shirts. While I can sympathize with them I can not justified there actions. Who wants a government that storms into hospitals bombs transit stations and Mc Donalds Then say they did nothing wrong some one else did it. They really blew it at the Hospital when it was daylight one of the leaders in the raid was one of the leading red shirts. After they had done the deed and can not get out of it they say it was a mistake and the hospital was blowing it out of proportion. Not to mention kidnapping two employes and puting them on display for what reason God or Buddah only knows.

No I can not see either side in power doing any thing good for Thailand. As always it will be same same different faces.

[toenail]

PM Abhisit may be the most educated, worldly leader Thailand has had for a long time; however, maybe Thailand deserves a hard #ss leader with a firm hand. Seems like the masses do not understand what democracy is all about.

[Loaded]

PM Abhisit may be the most educated, worldly leader Thailand has had for a long time; however, maybe Thailand deserves a hard #ss leader with a firm hand. Seems like the masses do not understand what democracy is all about.

like samak?

Abhisit is playing a smart game imo. The longer the stand off goes on, the more desperate the red shirts become which leads to instances like the chula hospital invasion. He has given them sufficient rope and slowly but surely they are hanging themselves. The Thais that surround me have lost all patience with Jatuporn and his thugs. Even the reds are starting to split and soon these divisions will escalate in to a collapse. The worst possible thing he can do now is use force. He's used intelligence (appointing Anupong head of security) and psychology (offering to replace ID cards, warning that action is imminent etc) and it's working. Off course the 'round 'em all up in a field and shoot them brigade' on this board won't agree.

[Robby nz]

PM Abhisit may be the most educated, worldly leader Thailand has had for a long time; however, maybe Thailand deserves a hard #ss leader with a firm hand. Seems like the masses do not understand what democracy is all about.

like samak?

Abhisit is playing a smart game imo. The longer the stand off goes on, the more desperate the red shirts become which leads to instances like the chula hospital invasion. He has given them sufficient rope and slowly but surely they are hanging themselves. The Thais that surround me have lost all patience with Jatuporn and his thugs. Even the reds are starting to split and soon these divisions will escalate in to a collapse. The worst possible thing he can do now is use force. He's used intelligence (appointing Anupong head of security) and psychology (offering to replace ID cards, warning that action is imminent etc) and it's working. Off course the 'round 'em all up in a field and shoot them brigade' on this board won't agree.

Neither will the reds of course and dont the red supporters on this topic have a cheek saying the PM is all talk after all the BS that comes from the red leaders every day.

The reds have been outsmarted by the PM and are now on their last days. the reds are dead

Somehow I dont think they will accept the generous offer of a roadmap and November elections because they will 'Demand' (notice how everything has been a demand) amnisty for all the red leaders and those who have done the shooting and they are unlikely to get it.

Take your time and bring them all to justice Mr PM

[gemini81]

"The armoured vehicles will provide safety for the authorities and protesters as there are armed groups at the protests.

More absurdities! How exactly are armoured vehicles safer for the protesters? I've yet to see a light tank, or for that matter a main battle tank, that is safe heading for unarmed or lightly armed protesters. APC's are also dangerous in close quarters for the untrained.

If the attack does take place being in an armoured vehicle trying to smash through a burning tyre wall isn't such a great idea either! The rancid smoke and the heat can be intense.

I'm not sure what era you're from, but today's armoured vehicles and troop transport vehicles can take a lot more than that! some models are unscathed by grenades and IED's. You oughta see the sorts of vehicles Israel has developed (google it.)

What other way are they gonna do it that doesn't put them in a situation where they'd be hurt by thugs with M 47's?

[JohnLeech]

"The armoured vehicles will provide safety for the authorities and protesters as there are armed groups at the protests.

More absurdities! How exactly are armoured vehicles safer for the protesters? I've yet to see a light tank, or for that matter a main battle tank, that is safe heading for unarmed or lightly armed protesters. APC's are also dangerous in close quarters for the untrained.

If the attack does take place being in an armoured vehicle trying to smash through a burning tyre wall isn't such a great idea either! The rancid smoke and the heat can be intense.

I'm not sure what era you're from, but today's armoured vehicles and troop transport vehicles can take a lot more than that! some models are unscathed by grenades and IED's. You oughta see the sorts of vehicles Israel has developed (google it.)

What other way are they gonna do it that doesn't put them in a situation where they'd be hurt by thugs with M 47's?

Not sure what era you're from, either! The OP was talking about "safer for the protesters".

"M 47's"? I think you mean M-16's or AK-47's - the M-47 was a tank!

[Publicus]

"The armoured vehicles will provide safety for the authorities and protesters as there are armed groups at the protests.

More absurdities! How exactly are armoured vehicles safer for the protesters? I've yet to see a light tank, or for that matter a main battle tank, that is safe heading for unarmed or lightly armed protesters. APC's are also dangerous in close quarters for the untrained.

If the attack does take place being in an armoured vehicle trying to smash through a burning tyre wall isn't such a great idea either! The rancid smoke and the heat can be intense.

I'm not sure what era you're from, but today's armoured vehicles and troop transport vehicles can take a lot more than that! some models are unscathed by grenades and IED's. You oughta see the sorts of vehicles Israel has developed (google it.)

What other way are they gonna do it that doesn't put them in a situation where they'd be hurt by thugs with M 47's?

Not sure what era you're from, either! The OP was talking about "safer for the protesters".

"M 47's"? I think you mean M-16's or AK-47's - the M-47 was a tank!

Which reminds me of the famous and courageous "Tankman" who on June 5, 1989, one day after PRChinese Army storm troopers ruthlessly slaughtered demonstrators in Tianaman Square - and lesser known, many supportive Beijing citizens - a solitary unnamed protester stood his ground before a column of the People's Liberation Army tanks (Liberation Army ). We vividly remember the image. As a reminder we can view the historic moment at this link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/view

It is impossible today that Thailand under Abhisit and Anupong would take this brutal and heartless route against its own people. The Reds on the other hand.....

Edited May 8, 2010 by Publicus