Helping Out The Inlaws On 30 Rai Rice Farm

[rideswings]

Im looking to help out my inlaws because my father-in-laws health isnt great and its almost rice season. He has been working this land for a long time and Im trying to take some or all of the load off of him. Im trying to decide if its cheaper to just give him the money so he doesnt have to work, or pay someone to do the work for him and then he can keep the rice that gets harvested to eat and sell.

Does anyone know how much it will cost for a once a year crop on 30 rai if I was to outsource everything? Today I paid 300baht per rai for the first plowing done by a Kubota 4500 and Ive been told needs to be done again after it rains for a while. Then I guess we need to buy rice and have people plant it for us and harvest it after it grows.

Im tempted to just give the inlaws around 5000 baht a month and not farm at all which would be easier for me and then he wouldnt have to do anything. So, would growing and harvesting a 30 acre rice crop be cheaper than 60,000 baht?

[samuibeachcomber]

ask this in the Isaan forum for a quick and correct reply.many westerners growing rice there.

[endure]

Have you asked him whether he'd be happy sitting around and doing nothing? It might to be a blow to his pride if he can no longer work.

[IsaanAussie]

If you were to outsource everything then it would cost nothing. The land could be farmed by others with a portion of the rice given back as rental for the land.

Ok, some ideas what is involved. Note fertilising is usually dependant on available funds, often missed.

1. You have ploughed in the weeds. 300 baht times 30 rai - 9000 baht

2. Seed purchase if needed

3. Plough again to plant

4. Pre and Post emergent herbacide treatments

5. First stage fertiliser

6. Second stage fertiliser

7. Finish fertiliser

8. Harvest by hand or machine

9. Rice cut by hand must be collected and transported to a thresher.

9. Store the rice.

10. Bale or stack the straw.

A few notes and ideas, costs you should verify locally:

First and foremost. If you are going to get non-family people to do any of the work then get into the queue now. That means plan who will do what and pay at least a deposit up front.

I use about half a bag of seed rice per rai. Of course if you still have viable seed from last year use that but test plant first. Check for weed seeds.

I have a tractor with rotary hoe and plough. Your price per rai seems OK. Note you have a rake or plough the rice in, I use the rotary hoe after ploughing. Expect the price to plant to be more expensive.

I get someone else to spray herbicides for health reasons. The weed seed load here is very high, if you are serious about the crop then spray twice.

Fertilising as with sprays will effect the outcome by up to 30% yields

If possible get a combine to harvest into bags. It is much cheaper now than hand cutting especially when you consider the food and drink that has to be supplied to the crew. A good operator and machine will loose less then 2% of the rice.

Get a crew to bale the straw. Cost about 14 baht per bale, but is easier to handle and if stored correctly is a good source of income if sold (around 50 baht/bale) the following year. A static baler can be purchased for 50,000 baht, if the family has an iron buffalo, this could be a viable source of income. Tractor driven balers will bale the straw left in windrows by the combine for about the same price as the manual type which is used in concert with a thresher.

Income expectation. Last year I had a net return of around 4,500 baht per rai after all costs. Everything bar the tractor for planting was done manually as discribed above, so if I had paid for the tractor as well as the fuel the return would be down by 150 baht per rai.

Will it be cheaper to pay 5000 per month? If the crop succeeds, the rains come, abd the wind doesnt lodge the growing rice, then the answer is no. From my numbers last year, on 30 rai, you should see 120,000 baht nett.

More importantly is to consider who is going to fund the crop? The family will not be able to do that on 5000 per month. What they will do is borrow again the harvest at perhaps 3% per month and have to give part of the crop to the funder. This gets to be expensive.

Getting involved or not, is your first decision. No half measures, you fund the crop or your fund the family and leave the who, how and what to them.

Hope that helps

Isaanaussie

Edited May 3, 2010 by IsaanAussie

[jackdawson]

Im tempted to just give the inlaws around 5000 baht a month...and then he wouldnt have to do anything.

now there's the farang / Thai way !

[rideswings]

Samui - thanks I will ask there later...

Endure - He wont actually be sitting around doing nothing, he will be kept busy with his 4 other non-rice rai where he grows peanuts, mangos, pineapples, tomatos, coconuts, rubber and paper trees and his handful of chickens. Im just trying to save him the wear-and-tear of pushing the iron buffalo over 30 rai. I agree that doing nothing will not be a good thing for a persons pride.

Aussie - I have been wondering about the process of rice harvesting for 2 years already. Thank you very much for your detailed answer, now I have a better grasp of the process. My wife sometimes has trouble explaining to me the various steps that you mentioned.

Jack - "now there's the farang / Thai way!" Yes but unfortunately I support my mom back home in the same way as I help support my extended Thai family, I would rather not worry about her doing any heavy work so I pay for people to do it for her. I dont mind doing it as long as its reasonable.

[rideswings]

I wanted to ask another question about building the retaining walls around each rai to keep the water in. I was quoted 10,000 per rai to build these walls using a "macro" but Im not sure if my wife is trying to say "backhoe." At that price, it would cost me alot more than 60,000 baht this year to take care of everything. Thanks!

[IsaanAussie]

I wanted to ask another question about building the retaining walls around each rai to keep the water in. I was quoted 10,000 per rai to build these walls using a "macro" but Im not sure if my wife is trying to say "backhoe." At that price, it would cost me alot more than 60,000 baht this year to take care of everything. Thanks!

Unless your need to excavate, I would suggest using a tractor, a big tractor with a blade. You have had the ground ploughed so get a tractor in to push some dirt around and form up the bunds you need. A Ford 6610 or large John Deere go for amount 600 baht per hour and can move a lot of soil in an hour.

IA

[rideswings]

IA - thanks again. Maybe the bunds have not been done in a long time, so thats why the 10,000 per rai. But even at 600 baht per hour, that would mean almost 18 hours to do one rai. Does that sound right to you? And does the 600 per hour include driver?

Edited May 4, 2010 by rideswings

[IsaanAussie]

IA - thanks again. Maybe the bunds have not been done in a long time, so thats why the 10,000 per rai. But even at 600 baht per hour, that would mean almost 18 hours to do one rai. Does that sound right to you? And does the 600 per hour include driver?

I assume that you would be building up the bund about 500mm high. Since the land is already ploughed all the tractor would be achieving is flattening the land and moving an inch or so to the edges. As a guide a tractor using the blade is moving quicker than when ploughing and doesnt have to reverse back at the end of each ploughed run. Hence with more than one rai per hour ploughing, the blade should be covering the same area in about half that time. So as a guess 15-20 hours should do the lot, 30 Rai at 600 baht, budget 12,000 baht.

The 600 baht includes tractor, fuel and driver.

Isaanaussie

[rideswings]

Thanks IA. 12,000 baht for the whole 30 rai seems alot cheaper than the 10,000 for one rai that we were quoted. Maybe Im missing something or maybe they arent explaining it to me correctly. When they told me 10,000 I was thinking 10,000 for the whole lot, but then my wife told me 10,000 per rai. Maybe she didnt understand or I didnt understand.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks IA. 12,000 baht for the whole 30 rai seems alot cheaper than the 10,000 for one rai that we were quoted. Maybe Im missing something or maybe they arent explaining it to me correctly. When they told me 10,000 I was thinking 10,000 for the whole lot, but then my wife told me 10,000 per rai. Maybe she didnt understand or I didnt understand.

OK look at it differently, take the macro. Last time the price was 22 baht per cubic metre for me. Your land is 30 Rai, so simply, a rectangle 5*40metres by 6*40 metres or circumference of 880 metres. A bund profile of 500*500mm is .25sq metres, the volume of dirt is 220 cubic metres. At 22 baht per cm, thats 4840 baht, allow for a truck to move it (6 cm per load @150/load) 17 loads and 5500 baht. Now add a tractor to push it into place, say 15 hours to be generous, another 9000 baht. Add it all up and I cant get more than 20,000 baht.

Has to be more to the story. Are they intending to building a pond? Thats about the only way I could spend the money, mind you its a big pond.

[rideswings]

Thanks again IA. No, they are not intending on building a pond, and your number of 20,000 is what I was thinking it would be for all the rai together. But I forgot to mention that he quoted 10,000 baht each rai for just 10 rai, not 30 rai, so I am sure theres more to it than what the in-laws are telling me. My wife told me this morning that her relative, who has adjoining property, paid 30,000 baht to have 3 rai leveled, cleared of trees and have the bund built. It was only 25% covered with trees, so Im not sure how they could have paid this person 30,000 baht. Thats 50 hours of work with a big tractor at your number of 600 per hour. Maybe they are just paying too much but I have never seen her family pay too much for anything so Im sure theres more to that story too.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks again IA. No, they are not intending on building a pond, and your number of 20,000 is what I was thinking it would be for all the rai together. But I forgot to mention that he quoted 10,000 baht each rai for just 10 rai, not 30 rai, so I am sure theres more to it than what the in-laws are telling me. My wife told me this morning that her relative, who has adjoining property, paid 30,000 baht to have 3 rai leveled, cleared of trees and have the bund built. It was only 25% covered with trees, so Im not sure how they could have paid this person 30,000 baht. Thats 50 hours of work with a big tractor at your number of 600 per hour. Maybe they are just paying too much but I have never seen her family pay too much for anything so Im sure theres more to that story too.

Now you are probably getting closer. Trees cleared with an excavator and the mounds they grow on leveled out as well. This would probably then followed by several tractors who would level the block, form the bunds and push the tree remains into heaps.

I had a 12 Rai block cleared of over 100 trees (about the same coverage) that way about 6 or 7 years ago. Cost about 70,000 baht from memory. One excavator and 5 Ford 6610 tractors and took about three days.

[OOTAI]

rideswings

My missus gets other people to grow rice on her land and it costs her nothing and she is paid 30% of the rice harvested as the lease payment. I would suggest that your best bet, provided the old fellow will accept the idea, is to tell him you will pay him 5000 per month nad he can lease his land. That way he gets some money and some rice and only has to work on his 4 rai. There is no way on earth I would pay someone else to do the work for him and expect an honest endeavour from them as an outcome.

[rideswings]

Thanks IA again for all the info.

OOTAI - I asked my wife about leasing the land and she told me they leased out their land one time before and the lessee ate all their fruit, vegetables, chickens and fish that were on the land and left the place a big mess when they left. I guess renters are the same anywhere on the planet if they dont care about the property.

[tig28]

If you were to outsource everything then it would cost nothing. The land could be farmed by others with a portion of the rice given back as rental for the land.

Ok, some ideas what is involved. Note fertilising is usually dependant on available funds, often missed.

1. You have ploughed in the weeds. 300 baht times 30 rai - 9000 baht

2. Seed purchase if needed

3. Plough again to plant

4. Pre and Post emergent herbacide treatments

5. First stage fertiliser

6. Second stage fertiliser

7. Finish fertiliser

8. Harvest by hand or machine

9. Rice cut by hand must be collected and transported to a thresher.

9. Store the rice.

10. Bale or stack the straw.

A few notes and ideas, costs you should verify locally:

First and foremost. If you are going to get non-family people to do any of the work then get into the queue now. That means plan who will do what and pay at least a deposit up front.

I use about half a bag of seed rice per rai. Of course if you still have viable seed from last year use that but test plant first. Check for weed seeds.

I have a tractor with rotary hoe and plough. Your price per rai seems OK. Note you have a rake or plough the rice in, I use the rotary hoe after ploughing. Expect the price to plant to be more expensive.

I get someone else to spray herbicides for health reasons. The weed seed load here is very high, if you are serious about the crop then spray twice.

Fertilising as with sprays will effect the outcome by up to 30% yields

If possible get a combine to harvest into bags. It is much cheaper now than hand cutting especially when you consider the food and drink that has to be supplied to the crew. A good operator and machine will loose less then 2% of the rice.

Get a crew to bale the straw. Cost about 14 baht per bale, but is easier to handle and if stored correctly is a good source of income if sold (around 50 baht/bale) the following year. A static baler can be purchased for 50,000 baht, if the family has an iron buffalo, this could be a viable source of income. Tractor driven balers will bale the straw left in windrows by the combine for about the same price as the manual type which is used in concert with a thresher.

Income expectation. Last year I had a net return of around 4,500 baht per rai after all costs. Everything bar the tractor for planting was done manually as discribed above, so if I had paid for the tractor as well as the fuel the return would be down by 150 baht per rai.

Will it be cheaper to pay 5000 per month? If the crop succeeds, the rains come, abd the wind doesnt lodge the growing rice, then the answer is no. From my numbers last year, on 30 rai, you should see 120,000 baht nett.

More importantly is to consider who is going to fund the crop? The family will not be able to do that on 5000 per month. What they will do is borrow again the harvest at perhaps 3% per month and have to give part of the crop to the funder. This gets to be expensive.

Getting involved or not, is your first decision. No half measures, you fund the crop or your fund the family and leave the who, how and what to them.

Hope that helps

Isaanaussie

Hi IA

Detailed and informed response ... thanks for your effort. I would appreciate some detail re your fertilizer program in your area ...

you state:

5. First stage fertiliser

6. Second stage fertiliser

7. Finish fertiliser

Could you give us the mix you are using and the rates??

thanks tig