Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[deadsnoopy]

Here's something else that's interesting; the UDD Facebook page was recently censored. Note that this only contains almost sugar-coated posts that are also very much intentioned for an international audience and international news media. Absolutly no hate whatsoever. Yet it was censored.

meanwhile, very nice Facebook pages such as this one remain available: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81313992104

I think the government speaks with multiple tongues. Hard to trust them to be honest.

Yeah, that page is certainly not about inciting hatred Press and media freedom will be a tough issue in the upcoming election. I personally am quite sure that he will continue to try and shut down PTV (red shirt television), their radio stations and websites. Usually this would be lifted with the state of emergency, which is another point the red shirt leaders want clarified. Because if the state of emergency lasts until after the upcoming elections, there will be really no press and media freedom.

[Jingthing]

Here's something else that's interesting; the UDD Facebook page was recently censored. Note that this only contains almost sugar-coated posts that are also very much intentioned for an international audience and international news media. Absolutly no hate whatsoever. Yet it was censored.

That is a GROSS misrepresentation which is obvious to anyone who read their loaded propaganda there. I reckon you figured nobody had read that page and you could get away with that porkie. Well, we did, and you can't.

And now back to the Deadsnoopy show ...

Edited May 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

Here's something else that's interesting; the UDD Facebook page was recently censored. Note that this only contains almost sugar-coated posts that are also very much intentioned for an international audience and international news media. Absolutly no hate whatsoever. Yet it was censored.

meanwhile, very nice Facebook pages such as this one remain available: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81313992104

I think the government speaks with multiple tongues. Hard to trust them to be honest.

There was tons of hate on this page from posters (fans) last time I visited. But I don't agree with this level of censorship but censorship is very common in Asia and has always been part of Thailand. However, this level is surely not good but I do believe in times like this and under the emergency order that sites advocating violence and used to communicate unlawful requests should be shut down.

What I find more interesting is it appears you are claiming that the site was shut down to international audiences and I don't believe Thailand has the ability or authority to do that.

If it is not shut down internationally there really isn't much to complain about since the page clearly states:

The official UDD page on Facebook for international audiences.

Be sure to check out our Notes for previous media releases!

Twitter name=UDDThailand

Also, you can still get to them on Twitter from Thailand .. at least I just did.

There are also a lot of mistakes made with software and blocking and this simply might be a mistake. There are many similar Facebook pages not blocked including Thaksin's. But if it wasn't a mistake by automated software picking up on words or phrases from the fans then I agree, this is going a bit far.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[shawndoc]

JC, it's not "some rule". Its the Thai Constitution. The PM and EC can't just ignore the timing.

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

And why do you think it is so wrong from the house to be dissolved for the 45 days before the election? It gives the candidates time to actually be campaigning for their jobs, instead of cooped up in Bangkok. No different than when the US congress goes out of session or takes a break.

The government doesn't cease to function, its just no new laws are getting passed.

[wagoosh]

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore

That part I would disagree with. It's going to be a long time until the "Isaan people" (aka. Thailand's poor majority) aren't going to be ignored anymore. They will always be promised gold and jewels before the election, but after the election all they will get is coal and dirt, so to speak. Let's hope I'm wrong, though.

why do people always think that issan is being ignored and that bangkok and being taken care of? the gap between issan or N/NE part of thailand is getting smaller not wider. if you think of the 1960's when there was nothing there, i.e., roads, electricity, etc. the gap was even wider than it is now. i think the government(s) had done a very good job developing that part of thailand so now when you go to udonthani, korat, khonkaen, the cities are very develop not even comparable to the capital of laos. not to mentioned all other small cities/towns like loei, sakhon nakhon, mukdahan, nongkhai, nakhon phanom, ubon, etc.

but still, one guy have managed to widen the gap between the issan people and central thailand eventhough not by the current situation but by digging up the old billet where issan people were 40 years ago.

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

"Dont cut take cake in different sizes but make the cake bigger"

[jcbangkok]

JC, it's not "some rule". Its the Thai Constitution. The PM and EC can't just ignore the timing.

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

And why do you think it is so wrong from the house to be dissolved for the 45 days before the election? It gives the candidates time to actually be campaigning for their jobs, instead of cooped up in Bangkok. No different than when the US congress goes out of session or takes a break.

The government doesn't cease to function, its just no new laws are getting passed.

Thanks for the link and info. But I am still not convinced since the constitution is a very fluid thing here in Thailand. And I don't think it is "so wrong" but just not needed and the country is better off not having an impotent government for 1 to 2 months. But as I have pointed out before, I don't come from a parliamentary gov't and all this strikes me as odd and illogical. My guess is my doubts and suspicions are simply coming from it seeming so abstract to me.

Edit: syntax

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Siam Simon]

Here's something else that's interesting; the UDD Facebook page was recently censored. Note that this only contains almost sugar-coated posts that are also very much intentioned for an international audience and international news media. Absolutly no hate whatsoever. Yet it was censored.

That is a GROSS misrepresentation which is obvious to anyone who read their loaded propaganda there. I reckon you figured nobody had read that page and you could get away with that porkie. Well, we did, and you can't.

And now back to the Deadsnoopy show ...

But not back to the jcbangkok show?

[jcbangkok]

JC, it's not "some rule". Its the Thai Constitution. The PM and EC can't just ignore the timing.

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

And why do you think it is so wrong from the house to be dissolved for the 45 days before the election? It gives the candidates time to actually be campaigning for their jobs, instead of cooped up in Bangkok. No different than when the US congress goes out of session or takes a break.

The government doesn't cease to function, its just no new laws are getting passed.

Shawn -

Is there always a dissolution period even in a scheduled election in a Thailand . I'm trying to find it in your link but thought you might know ... wouldn't even mind knowing the answer to this in terms of scheduled elections in other parliamentary countries.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[shawndoc]

Hi JC, I'm assuming you are from the US, so check out this link:

http://www.thecapitol.net/FAQ/cong_numbers.html

The first line of the chart is how many days out of the year the US congress is in session. You'll see in a typical year for anywhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of the year, there is effectively "no government" in the United States.

So don't let the term "dissolution" mislead you, this is very comparable to an extended recess in the US as far as down time goes. And look at the new elections as comparable to a recall election.

EDIT: As to the gap between dissolution and new elections, I believe it is quite normal. I know for the new election in the UK, there is a 3 week gap between dissolution and the new vote. This is designed to give the MPs time to go back and campaign.

Here's a good link on explaining the UK dissolution:

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/electio...dissolution.cfm

Basic idea is the same in Thailand and other parliamentary governments.

Edited May 4, 2010 by shawndoc

[old wanderer]

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

I wish i was such a polyanna. I remember only too well just over a year ago, when there was a radio station in Chang Mai, and it was against the Thaskin supporting government. The Red Shirts, attacked the announcer and pulled his father out of a car and killed his father. Hundreds of witnesses, yet noboey was brought to justice for this execution.

Can party exercise free speach in Issan and live? Without being able to campain, put forth ideas, and programs, there is no hope for a healing of the classes. At the present time until the government really comes down with a heavy hand on this kind of extra-judicial killings becasue of a persons party of belief, I see little hope of anything but more of the turmoil, rampant corruption, and lawlessness that has permiated the region for years.

[jcbangkok]

Hi JC, I'm assuming you are from the US, so check out this link:

http://www.thecapitol.net/FAQ/cong_numbers.html

The first line of the chart is how many days out of the year the US congress is in session. You'll see in a typical year for anywhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of the year, there is effectively "no government" in the United States.

So don't let the term "dissolution" mislead you, this is very comparable to an extended recess in the US as far as down time goes. And look at the new elections as comparable to a recall election.

Good point and you are right about the word since just earlier today I was under the impression it was literal and that there would be basically be nobody holding any seat in the house. No doubt, it is still something hard for me to get my head around. I have never been in a situation or lived any where before that I felt the need to understand how another gov;t worked ... well at least not beyond finding out if the US rhetoric of another country was true or not such as not buying into the proposal of changing the name of French Fries to Freedom Fries.

[jcbangkok]

Shawn - I was going to edit and add this to my last post but for some reason it is saying I don't have rights to edit it. I didn't want you to think I didn't read your links because I have now learned there is actually nobody holding a seat but they are still responsible for taking care of their duties and departments. Still foreign to me but making much more sense. In fact, it is also helping me to understand more about why yellows and reds believe they can change things through causing chaos. It would take a civil war in the US to disband the gov't and get unscheduled elections. And even if the President is doing a horrible job the best you can get (and this a rarity) is impeachment that could lead to removal and then you simply get the VP, who was picked by the president, to take over ... so, chances are you are just going to get more of the same and the logical choice is to wait it out until the next election and hope the majority feels like you.

I have to wonder if both Thailand and the US would be better off if they swapped government types at this point in their history,

[timekeeper]

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

you're kidding. i believe that your wife has more class than thaksin but she didn't just know it; that thaksin was a former police son of rich politician from chiang mai, married a daughter of a rich general, made his fortune through his connections in the police with his computer business, have got the monopoly of satellite concession and then AIS, after 20 or more years he is a billionaire.

i don't think gods are like this.

Nope. God creates worlds, then creates a human population and watches while they fight each other to death. Or he might not even be watching, since (at least according to the Bible), God created man in His own image. So God probably already extinguished himself along with his kind as well. Too bad, we're stuck resolving this mess ourselves.

that does it for me, you can never trust a man who quotes the bible.......

[timekeeper]

Here is even an article called "Why 9 months?" from CAPO, the Thai government website:

http://www.capothai.org/capothai/why-9-months , dated March 30, 2010.

9 months house dissolution from April 1st would have meant House dissolution by January 2011 and new elections by March 2011. Not new elections by the end of the year as you're claiming.

Can you stop calling me a lair now, please?

a lair?, Sir, you are a damned lair!

[Dodobird]

i wonder if this is considered a win and the Red protestors will get their ID cards back and get paid for their efforts?

i heard they would only get paid by Thaksin if Abhisit was forced out and the house dissolved....

i bet there's many a red in Bangkok wondering exactly the same thing.........

Source please?

[timekeeper]

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

I wish i was such a polyanna. I remember only too well just over a year ago, when there was a radio station in Chang Mai, and it was against the Thaskin supporting government. The Red Shirts, attacked the announcer and pulled his father out of a car and killed his father. Hundreds of witnesses, yet noboey was brought to justice for this execution.

Can party exercise free speach in Issan and live? Without being able to campain, put forth ideas, and programs, there is no hope for a healing of the classes. At the present time until the government really comes down with a heavy hand on this kind of extra-judicial killings becasue of a persons party of belief, I see little hope of anything but more of the turmoil, rampant corruption, and lawlessness that has permiated the region for years.

i am very happy to contradict you on this one:

on the 8th April 2010 a court in Chang Mai sentenced five men to 20 years in jail for the murder of the father of a key member of the yellow shirt People's Alliance for Democracy.

One of the convicted men is the chief security guard of the red shirt Rak Chiang Mai 51 group.

he is Niyom Lueangcharoen, he has jumped bail and remains at large.

Niyom, aka DJ Lae, has been seen on stage at the red rally on 7th April 2010 at Ratchaprasong intersection.

he has been reported as seen to be socialising with Jataporn at the red rally in Bangkok

there is a warrant out for his arrest

red leaders engaged in social intercourse with convicted murderers at peaceful rallies for democracy, whatever next..........?

[timekeeper]

i wonder if this is considered a win and the Red protestors will get their ID cards back and get paid for their efforts?

i heard they would only get paid by Thaksin if Abhisit was forced out and the house dissolved....

i bet there's many a red in Bangkok wondering exactly the same thing.........

Source please?

its been discussed already many words ago on this very thread

go back and have a look

thank you for your interest........

[SomTumTiger]

Problem is not with the government - it is with the police.

[Mekhong]

Problem is not with the government - it is with the police.

Yes, wouldn't it be nice if the govt could take this chance to completely disband the entire police force and get every member to re-apply for his job. Give them a decent wage so that they do not have to stand on the street and steal money from innocent motorists. Really wipe out the filthy corruption throughout the rotten police force once and for all and start to create a new force that people can trust in to perform its duties honestly. Wishful thinking ...

[ChiangMaiFun]

So you support violence if it's for your purpose, but you're against violence if it's for someone else's purpose? That's just silly. You're a mini-Dictator, aren't you.

I do not mean that...i believe in karma, but i dont want to wait for it to happen (im an impatient guy). If someone punches me in the face i will punch them back, if the reds see fit to harm the healths of the people in chulalongkorn then i think it is also fair to say that the health of the reds should be harmed in return.

Then you have absolutely NO understanding of karma (like most Thai's actually) go read the Dhammapada and try to vision a larger picture at work rather than advocating violence against either side - Om Shanti

I obviously have no religious knowledge at all but what i understand as karma is if you do something bad something bad happens to you, if you do something good then something good happens to you.

However, i dont want to wait for something to happen to the reds, i want something to happen to the reds quick.

Ohh...by the way to deadsnoopy what did you expect the hospital to do, if they leave the patients there do you realize what could happen to their health??? Sick people need to rest for recovery and some wild goose chase for some exploding food delivery is just fair to the sick

It's not that simple... anyway we are going off topic - violence on ANY side is wrong - now Abhisit has called election let's be generous and hope it's over very, very soon.

[timekeeper]

Maybe the reds never anticipated having any success. So they never told their sheep what to do if they got new elections. So the protesters may be unaware that after you get what you claimed you wanted from a protest you go home.

Someone needs to tell them to each grab a used tire and get on a bus heading north.

Someone needs to confirm the House dissolution date with the Election Commission and then the Election Commission can confirm the date for the election. When that happens, I'm sure the red shirts will go home. Makes sense?

In a related development, election commissioner Prapun Naigowit yesterday voiced his support for the PM's road map, saying that it would lead to talks and make the situation better.

He said the Election Commission was ready to hold elections, though for the polls to take place on November 14, as suggested by the PM, the House should be dissolved no later than the end of September.

-- The Nation 2010-05-05

'

'''When that happens, I'm sure the red shirts will go home. Makes sense?''

so despite your thinking that the Dems are going to be dissolved, it looks like the EC commission is ready, so deadsnoopy can you use your considerable influence with the reds and ask these boys to go home now ??

[ChiangMaiFun]

Agree 100% elections were never a subject for the reds - everything incl. the leaders have been bought and paid for by Thaksin and he wants back into power and he does not give a <deleted> if the country goes to hel_l in the process

What an original argument. If I got 1 Baht for every time I heard that, I'd be richer than Thaksin.

[Neurath]

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore

That part I would disagree with. It's going to be a long time until the "Isaan people" (aka. Thailand's poor majority) aren't going to be ignored anymore. They will always be promised gold and jewels before the election, but after the election all they will get is coal and dirt, so to speak. Let's hope I'm wrong, though.

Correct!

They will be ignored by someone, that someone being somewhere near Montenegro.

[ChiangMaiFun]

''Currently it's in the Constitution Court, who will eventually decide if the Democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.''

but they won't do that despite your aspirations.......

Is that your opinion? Or do you have a secret source inside the Constitution Court that has given you a hint of the upcoming decision?

No, Snoopy, he's just being realistic. When have the courts ever given an unbiased judgement when their Democratic chums have been caught out up to no good?

It's true Snoop - they won't do it...

[ChiangMaiFun]

Someone needs to tell them to each grab a used tire and get on a bus heading north.

According to Suthep a statement made by Deputy PM Suthep, over 70% of the protesters are from Bangkok, not from the North, so could you explain why exactly they should head North?

I think he meant North Bangkok?

[ChiangMaiFun]

I hope speeding up the elections by 90 days was worth all those lives that were lost.

90 days? Or 1 year? Without the protests, Abhisit and his cronies would have stayed until the end of 2011.

Wow...i didnt think you were this red

Maybe you suffer from amnesia but if i remember correctly the house dissolution was proposed at 9 months (1 year already reduced from that) even before any people died, before any crack downs, before all the illegal activities, before any break in of hospital property, private property, and any invasion of public rights was committed, so yes the prolonged 2 month protest causing the deaths of more than 20 people was in fact not worth it in anyway, 25 lives for 90 days is 1 life for less than 4 days. I don't know about any of you but i place the value of human life much higher than any value of money can buy, and definitely much higher than 4 days worth.

If anyone should think that 1 live for every 4 days is worth it then shame on you.

BTW this does not contradict my previous statements...reds caused deaths therefore reds should pay (not with money but with blood)

With respect - this is not the Buddhist approach - please stop advocating death and violence - whoever has done wrong will pay eventually if not through the court then through karmic means - from whatever colour.

[Neurath]

Here is even an article called "Why 9 months?" from CAPO, the Thai government website:

http://www.capothai.org/capothai/why-9-months , dated March 30, 2010.

9 months house dissolution from April 1st would have meant House dissolution by January 2011 and new elections by March 2011. Not new elections by the end of the year as you're claiming.

Can you stop calling me a lair now, please?

An apology from JC would be nice as well. It was nothing but a flame, while you tried to have a reasoned discussion. (I don't agree with you on all points, but I recognize a reasoned point of view when I see one. ).

I doubt I will get an apology from him, and I'm not really looking for one. He's all quiet now claiming he's got me on ignore. So that's an excuse I'm not asking people to agree with me. We're all entitled to our own opinions, but I do like to defend my point if I believe that I have one. And this one is quite clear.

You don't deserve to get one since the source you've referenced, Korbsak, says dissolution within 9 months which is entirely consistent with having an election in 2010. Your point is quite clear, but it's also quite wrong and you know it's wrong.

[timekeeper]

Someone needs to tell them to each grab a used tire and get on a bus heading north.

According to Suthep a statement made by Deputy PM Suthep, over 70% of the protesters are from Bangkok, not from the North, so could you explain why exactly they should head North?

I think he meant North Bangkok?

makes no difference what Suthep says now, he's gone, consigned to history in Nakon Nowhere, Backabeyondaburi

Abhisit and Korn are the dream team at the next poll

[ChiangMaiFun]

Someone needs to tell them to each grab a used tire and get on a bus heading north.

According to Suthep a statement made by Deputy PM Suthep, over 70% of the protesters are from Bangkok, not from the North, so could you explain why exactly they should head North?

I think he meant North Bangkok?

makes no difference what Suthep says now, he's gone, consigned to history in Nakon Nowhere, Backabeyondaburi

Abhisit and Korn are the dream team at the next poll

some might say 'nightmare'

Anyway let the people decide - I do think, and fear, that the Dems may get a 'bounce' out of this - they should to let the red TV come back on for a start - any fair election cannot censor as they have done – it’s a non-starter if they try and manipulate the media as they have done (successfully).

[timekeeper]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide