Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[Thai at Heart]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

Shouting it here makes no difference. Abhisit needs a loud hailer in Isaan and Chiangmai.

The mafia out there won't let him have his voice because this country wants something more than he can ever give. It isn't nice, and it isn't right and it isn't fair, but the Dems have had their time here and they after 80 years have been found out. They don't really care about poor people.

Huh ... you lost me. Are you saying that the Mafia cares about poor people? Or are you saying that the reds are controlled by the mafia?

If you don't think that every provincial city is controlled by a mafia of a type and they are available to be bought for a reason or another, you are sadly misinformed. How is Newin able to make his friends stay with him. They backed a horse and it may well backfire for him and his friends.

I am not saying that the mafia care. It is irrelevant if I believe they care. It is relevant whether the people believe that their local mafia is better off backing red or yellow. I don't take a side, I just try to understand what is going on. The local people don't care if the mafia get paid as long as they believe they will get a bit more than before.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[difos57]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

i have explained that before, he is figure of fun, an easy target and i am making him work for his money

Somebody really has to put a muzzle on him and send him back to the doghouse. Do you think he might have picked up rabbies and gone mad, not being able to reason.

More proof and case of taksins hypocrisy.

The red mob has paid the local motorcycle taxis 1000. Baht/day plus a tank full of gas to attend the demonstrations.

The people in some of the rural factories get paid 300 Baht/day and 500 Baht/day.

Others get paid 2,000. Baht/day. And then, of course the leaders get paid in millions.

This is what you call a taksin hypocrite democratic pay scale.

[difos57]

More trash. Even respected journalists like Dan Rivers from CNN have yesterday said on live TV from Bangkok that it's highly doubtful that the protesters are here for money. Wake up.

Sorry but the local people(that's us) know better then any foreign journalist. Deny it all you want but even you know a lot of them are being paid.

Red propagandists should know when to stop.

Yes, it is highly doubtful to Dan in the western world. Dan gets paid an extremely high salary and 1000. baht a day would not be worth

it to him to risk your reputation, job and face. But this is not the western world and the normal factory salary is 175 baht/day. So you can see why someone being offered six times your regular salary would do this. His highly doubtful is only his opinion.

[hextac]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

i have explained that before, he is figure of fun, an easy target and i am making him work for his money

Somebody really has to put a muzzle on him and send him back to the doghouse. Do you think he might have picked up rabbies and gone mad, not being able to reason.

More proof and case of taksins hypocrisy.

The red mob has paid the local motorcycle taxis 1000. Baht/day plus a tank full of gas to attend the demonstrations.

The people in some of the rural factories get paid 300 Baht/day and 500 Baht/day.

Others get paid 2,000. Baht/day. And then, of course the leaders get paid in millions.

This is what you call a taksin hypocrite democratic pay scale.

Why is paying the protesters so wrong?

[jcbangkok]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

jdinasia . Why cant you admit that the reports on Thaksin economic achievements in respected bodies like the World Bank are extremely positive .

Why cant you visit North and central Thailand and ask yourself the people there what they think of Thaksin .

Who should i believe , you or the World bank ? you or the Isaan people ?

You lack objectivity due to your obvious political leaning .

By the way i am not against Abhisit

Edit Typo

Not saying all Thaksin policies for the poor were not helpful but I have to wonder about this one ...

First of all, the data regarding poverty was not info from the World Bank but info they published which was provided by Thailand's National Economic and Social Development Board

Secondly, the numbers are based on a REVISED poverty level put in place in 2005

Thirdly one must wonder, since the the vast majority of those getting out of poverty during this period are in the Issan region, if it was the loans Thaksin provided to these folks that took them out of poverty and now has them so in debt since everyone knew they would not be able to pay them back and that there was no requirements on how these loans were to be invested. The only people who now seemed to have benefited from these loans are the village leaders.

See World Bank Report 2005: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTTHAI...full-report.pdf

[Thai at Heart]

I have been told that Thaksin isn't paying the bills and that there is another lady (3 times as wealthy as him, and previously associated with the yellows) who is doing so. Does anybody here know anything about her? Is it possible?

I haven't heard this, but it is known that there are other financial supporters besides just Thaksin. Below is the link to Forbes' 2009 list of most wealthiest in Thailand.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/85/thaila...chest_Rank.html

If it's anyone, I go for the alcohol mandarins that would be bearing the brunt of the tourism slowdown and the tax increases. I mean they sell beer, that wouldn't expect them to care who is in power as long as they are taken care of.

[kissdani]

''Currently it's in the Constitution Court, who will eventually decide if the Democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.''

but they won't do that despite your aspirations.......

Is that your opinion? Or do you have a secret source inside the Constitution Court that has given you a hint of the upcoming decision?

It is a silly hope. If you believe and trust in the independency of the courts in Thailand, then it is more than clear that the Democrats will be dissolved.

[ChiangMaiFun]

''Currently it's in the Constitution Court, who will eventually decide if the Democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.''

but they won't do that despite your aspirations.......

Is that your opinion? Or do you have a secret source inside the Constitution Court that has given you a hint of the upcoming decision?

It is a silly hope. If you believe and trust in the independency of the courts in Thailand, then it is more than clear that the Democrats will be dissolved.

believe and trust? of course we do! how can someone IMPUGNE otherwise?

[jdinasia]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

jdinasia . Why cant you admit that the reports on Thaksin economic achievements in respected bodies like the World Bank are extremely positive .

Why cant you visit North and central Thailand and ask yourself the people there what they think of Thaksin .

Who should i believe , you or the World bank ? you or the Isaan people ?

You lack objectivity due to your obvious political leaning .

By the way i am not against Abhisit

Edit Typo

Ummmmm I LIVE in the N and I know that the people are divided in how they think about Thaksin. I also know WHY. So, tell me again about visiting the North. My friends are from all over Thailand. I have seen your posts over the last few weeks that you have been active and they definitely leaned heavily on the Red side up until very recently (and I think the recent shift towards a more neutral stance may or may not be real).

Did Thaksin do some good things? Yes.

Do his 2700+ extra-judicial killings out weigh that? Yes.

Does his handling of the situation in the South (the overall position AND the results like Tak Bai) outweigh that? Yes.

Does his abuse of power in the first case that they nailed him on outweeigh that? No. It was just the fastest and easiest to prove.

Does his theft from the Thai people when in power outweigh the good he did? Yes. He cost the Thai taxpayer billions of Baht while making himself more rich -- WHILE IN OFFICE. so Yes Yes Yes.

Does he have even more strikes against him, like funding and inciting terror/insurrection/treason? Yes.

So ... yeah ... even a mass murderer can have done some good... I think he may have modeled his political life after Jesse James. Keep the people that protect you and keep you safe very happy and then you can rob everyone else blind all over the country!

[jdinasia]

''Currently it's in the Constitution Court, who will eventually decide if the Democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.''

but they won't do that despite your aspirations.......

Is that your opinion? Or do you have a secret source inside the Constitution Court that has given you a hint of the upcoming decision?

It is a silly hope. If you believe and trust in the independency of the courts in Thailand, then it is more than clear that the Democrats will be dissolved.

If you believe and trust in the courts of Thailand then you won't be too worried about the result. You seem to say that if they find in any other way than YOU think is correct then the courts would be wrong.

The history of the case would suggest that they will NOT be found guilty. It is possible that evidence that I am not aware of has been submitted to the EC. It is also possible that Arsiaman's threats when he invaded the EC influenced what happened. It is also possible that you are just plain wrong.

[jdinasia]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

jdinasia . Why cant you admit that the reports on Thaksin economic achievements in respected bodies like the World Bank are extremely positive .

Why cant you visit North and central Thailand and ask yourself the people there what they think of Thaksin .

Who should i believe , you or the World bank ? you or the Isaan people ?

You lack objectivity due to your obvious political leaning .

By the way i am not against Abhisit

Edit Typo

Not saying all Thaksin policies for the poor were not helpful but I have to wonder about this one ...

First of all, the data regarding poverty was not info from the World Bank but info they published which was provided by Thailand's National Economic and Social Development Board

Secondly, the numbers are based on a REVISED poverty level put in place in 2005

Thirdly one must wonder, since the the vast majority of those getting out of poverty during this period are in the Issan region, if it was the loans Thaksin provided to these folks that took them out of poverty and now has them so in debt since everyone knew they would not be able to pay them back and that there was no requirements on how these loans were to be invested. The only people who now seemed to have benefited from these loans are the village leaders.

See World Bank Report 2005: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTTHAI...full-report.pdf

BTW Pornsasi I was unaware that the IMF or WorldBank had ever made a statement about why Thaksin was popular

The above chart IS interesting but nothing you said addressed the three points I made --- Thaksin gained the temporary loyalty of some of the Isaan political bosses. Thaksin had some populist policies. Thaksin created a client/Patron system with loyalty based on HIM but bought with state funds. That system required the voters in some areas to keep voting for him or see those debts come due.

Feel free to duck that Thaksin got where he did through his own behaviour --- getting to the top --- AND --- getting sentenced to jail!

[Redsunset]

This whole red shirt protest has been a complete waste of time. Originally, Abhisit was going to call for new elections in December. Now he has changed it to November. The red shirts are happy.... this is unbelievable. No wonder Thailand is a third world country banana republic run by corrupt idiots.

The democrats are the only ones living in the modern society who make sense. All the other Thai politicians are half Neadrathal and half Homo Sapiens.

[midas]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

"Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election"

That's just wrong in fact and law and practice.

well at least you would have thought the Prime Minister would have MENTIONED it to the EC

EC backs PM’s roadmap for national reconciliation

BANGKOK (NNT) -- The Election Commission (EC) has agreed with the national reconciliation roadmap recently proposed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Election Commissioner Prapan Naikowit expressed his strong support for the Prime Minister's five-point national reconciliation plan, including the schedule of a fresh general election on 14 November 2010. He believed that the situation would return to normalcy if all sides joined hands in seeking solutions to the ongoing political crisis.

Mr Prapan also encouraged Prime Minister Abhisit to come up with a specific date for House dissolution, which he said would need to be called during 16-30 September if the general election was to take place on 14 November. The election law stipulates that the election date must be set between 45-60 days after the House is dissolved.

The Election Commissioner reaffirmed that the EC was fully ready for a new general election with a total budget of 2 billion THB. He also expressed concern over the fairness and transparency of political campaigns amongst political parties during the poll.

Mr Prapan pointed out that Prime Minister Abhisit had never discussed his reconciliation roadmap with the EC before his official announcement on Monday night while urging the media to present news with neutrality without political bias, especially during the upcoming election.

-- NNT 2010-05-05

[rabo]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

jdinasia . Why cant you admit that the reports on Thaksin economic achievements in respected bodies like the World Bank are extremely positive .

Why cant you visit North and central Thailand and ask yourself the people there what they think of Thaksin .

Who should i believe , you or the World bank ? you or the Isaan people ?

You lack objectivity due to your obvious political leaning .

By the way i am not against Abhisit

Edit Typo

Not saying all Thaksin policies for the poor were not helpful but I have to wonder about this one ...

First of all, the data regarding poverty was not info from the World Bank but info they published which was provided by Thailand's National Economic and Social Development Board

Secondly, the numbers are based on a REVISED poverty level put in place in 2005

Thirdly one must wonder, since the the vast majority of those getting out of poverty during this period are in the Issan region, if it was the loans Thaksin provided to these folks that took them out of poverty and now has them so in debt since everyone knew they would not be able to pay them back and that there was no requirements on how these loans were to be invested. The only people who now seemed to have benefited from these loans are the village leaders.

See World Bank Report 2005: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTTHAI...full-report.pdf

A nice piece of data. Also according to the report, much of the increased income came from increased agricultural income (40%). A quick search for rice production for the same period suggests that much of the increase can be attributed to increases in rice production and yield.

The big shocker though is the huge increase in the commodities price of rice since the beginning of the financial crisis in 2008, more than doubling (100%).

It would be interesting to see the drop in poverty during Abhisit's time in office.

Edited May 5, 2010 by rabo

[lopburi3]

One post and several quotes have been removed - please observe all forum rules.

[jdinasia]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

Shouting it here makes no difference. Abhisit needs a loud hailer in Isaan and Chiangmai.

The mafia out there won't let him have his voice because this country wants something more than he can ever give. It isn't nice, and it isn't right and it isn't fair, but the Dems have had their time here and they after 80 years have been found out. They don't really care about poor people.

Huh ... you lost me. Are you saying that the Mafia cares about poor people? Or are you saying that the reds are controlled by the mafia?

If you don't think that every provincial city is controlled by a mafia of a type and they are available to be bought for a reason or another, you are sadly misinformed. How is Newin able to make his friends stay with him. They backed a horse and it may well backfire for him and his friends.

I am not saying that the mafia care. It is irrelevant if I believe they care. It is relevant whether the people believe that their local mafia is better off backing red or yellow. I don't take a side, I just try to understand what is going on. The local people don't care if the mafia get paid as long as they believe they will get a bit more than before.

OK -- if I read that right you did just say that the Reds are controlled by the Mafia --- That is a new one on me!

How does Newin keep his friends? He's a smart smart man. Politically savvy. He can smell which way the wind will blow before the wind changes. How does he keep his power base? one way is because he is politically savvy he is able to deliver for his constituency. The other reasons would require gossip

[gl9999]

If you had read what I wrote the illustration had nothing to do with a comparison between Clitnton and Thaksin as people. It was about how people interpret the same data differently, and the lack of understanding between conservatives and liberals. There are two explanations: firstly, you want to deliberately distort and misrepresent what I said or second you lack the comprehension skills to read at a 6th grade level (what I wrote isn't exactly difficult prose). Given your venom, I'd have guessed the former; but given your writing, I fear it's the latter.

The comparison has to come in when you use stupid illustrations like that because of the huge difference in crimes between President Clinton and Thaksin.

No matter how much of a hooha people made about President Clinton, the fact was his only crime was not being able to keep his dick in his pants. It doesn't matter whether you're a conservative or a liberal, the 'crime' wasn't that serious. The Monica Lewinski thing was just politics and that's why so much of a fuss was made about it.

But whether you're a liberal or a conservative, whether you're Red or Yellow, surely you can tell when a person is corrupt right? Surely you can see how bad a person is if he has a couple of thousand people murdered right? You can analyze things differently from the next person but your moral compass must be in the other direction if you can't see a man for being a thief and murderer, no matter how many poor people he pretends to help.

[jdinasia]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

"Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election"

That's just wrong in fact and law and practice.

well at least you would have thought the Prime Minister would have MENTIONED it to the EC

EC backs PM's roadmap for national reconciliation

BANGKOK (NNT) -- The Election Commission (EC) has agreed with the national reconciliation roadmap recently proposed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Midas ---- the EC had stated recently in an unsolicited (by the reds or the gov't) that they could get an election ready in 15 days. They hardly need to be consulted about something 6 months in the future.

You hilighted the last sentence but seem to have missed the first about the EC agreeing with the proposed roadmap for reconciliation.

[Throatwobbler]

Face it -- the Reds aren't getting ANYTHING that they asked for originally and yet they will gratefully take the offer and go home OR they will actually face what they have really wanted (and feared) from the beginning. A real crackdown.

Oh really? Before the red shirt protests, Abhisit said he would finish his term until the end of 2011 and then call for new elections. What we have now is a potential House dissolution in September 2010 and an election by November 2011, more than 1 year less than Abhisit's full term. You call that "aren't getting anything"?

What an ignorant way to live your life

yes yes yes yes Snoopy has it right - don't be so silly - they have ^WON the election this year - the posters on here (of the canary variety) said weeks ago it would never happen - you lost - get used to it

During the negotiations Abhisit offered a house dissolution within 9 months and an election before the end of the year. all that has now been offered to the red shirts is an election 6 weeks before the original offer. This will still enable Abhisit to agree the budget he wants and appoint the new head of the army. This is a total failure for eveything the red shirts were demonstrating for at the start. 15 day dissolution, the immediate dissolution and Abhisit to leave the country. This to me is not winning. It's a strange definition of won you clearly have.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Face it -- the Reds aren't getting ANYTHING that they asked for originally and yet they will gratefully take the offer and go home OR they will actually face what they have really wanted (and feared) from the beginning. A real crackdown.

Oh really? Before the red shirt protests, Abhisit said he would finish his term until the end of 2011 and then call for new elections. What we have now is a potential House dissolution in September 2010 and an election by November 2011, more than 1 year less than Abhisit's full term. You call that "aren't getting anything"?

What an ignorant way to live your life

yes yes yes yes Snoopy has it right - don't be so silly - they have ^WON the election this year - the posters on here (of the canary variety) said weeks ago it would never happen - you lost - get used to it

During the negotiations Abhisit offered a house dissolution within 9 months and an election before the end of the year. all that has now been offered to the red shirts is an election 6 weeks before the original offer. This will still enable Abhisit to agree the budget he wants and appoint the new head of the army. This is a total failure for eveything the red shirts were demonstrating for at the start. 15 day dissolution, the immediate dissolution and Abhisit to leave the country. This to me is not winning. It's a strange definition of won you clearly have.

Ok let's go through this AGAIN - he gave NO DATE - NOW he has - he gave NO timeline - NOW he has - get it? he could have done this 7 weeks ago but he DID NOT - let's put it in football terms: Reds 1 Yellows 0

[Slip]

^^ ROFL. It's more like a cricket score:

The govt: 357

Red thugs with no mandate: 0

[ChiangMaiFun]

^^ ROFL. It's more like a cricket score:

The govt: 357

Red thugs with no mandate: 0

haha funny na?

Where is the 357 coming from?

Yellows lost 2 years in 'power'

so it's probably: reds 730 (days) yellows 0 - not exact but you get the idea

[Thai at Heart]

OK -- if I read that right you did just say that the Reds are controlled by the Mafia --- That is a new one on me!

How does Newin keep his friends? He's a smart smart man. Politically savvy. He can smell which way the wind will blow before the wind changes. How does he keep his power base? one way is because he is politically savvy he is able to deliver for his constituency. The other reasons would require gossip

No. The local up country mafia go with whichever they think provides the best medium term benefits. Nothing is as black and white as you describe.

This is no different from western democracies where all the big businesses give to all the major parties just to make sure they are in everyone's good books. The issue comes when the leading party of the day despite its major backers really starts to stir the major pot in Bangkok. No one party did it before because they had been made up of weak coalitions. TRT changed that.

I have read enough books and understood enough to see that there was a lot more in Thaksin's play book than selling his own business. Could you imagine if Thailand had passed laws which allowed foreigners 100% ownership of their companies even in restricted businesses. The only side to have been backing right then and there would have been Thaksin's and to beg him to protect your industry. Forget changing the constitution, he would have potentially re-written the rule book for the major Thai based businesses that form the very bricks and mortar and the entitled family institutions of the country. Some of the major families had a lot to gain by being with him, others were diversified enough internationally that they could handle the change.

Now that is a deal breaker for a lot of EXTREMELY powerful people.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[TAWP]

Rightly or wrongly, Thaksin got the credit for putting in the electricity, although he did come to the switching on ceremony for the photo-op...it's on my mother-in-law's wall...yes, you are right, it wasn't his money...but he spent the taxpayers money to benefit some poor folk instead of cosseting the rich elite in Bangkok...many of the other elite leaders could have done something to provide electricity...but they didn't, they were focussed exclusively on Bangkok...and on making sure that the elite didn't have to part with any money in taxes to pay for electricity supply for their buffalo kinsmen of Isaan...

Previous politicians focused exclusively on the rich elite in Bangkok and spent the tax-revenues on them? Wow, some stories...

[Throatwobbler]

^^ ROFL. It's more like a cricket score:

The govt: 357

Red thugs with no mandate: 0

[Throatwobbler]

[

yes yes yes yes Snoopy has it right - don't be so silly - they have ^WON the election this year - the posters on here (of the canary variety) said weeks ago it would never happen - you lost - get used to it

During the negotiations Abhisit offered a house dissolution within 9 months and an election before the end of the year. all that has now been offered to the red shirts is an election 6 weeks before the original offer. This will still enable Abhisit to agree the budget he wants and appoint the new head of the army. This is a total failure for eveything the red shirts were demonstrating for at the start. 15 day dissolution, the immediate dissolution and Abhisit to leave the country. This to me is not winning. It's a strange definition of won you clearly have.

Ok let's go through this AGAIN - he gave NO DATE - NOW he has - he gave NO timeline - NOW he has - get it? he could have done this 7 weeks ago but he DID NOT - let's put it in football terms: Reds 1 Yellows 0

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

[Throatwobbler]

To add my thoughts to the quotes. If you are trying to quote too many people and you try to remove a couple I find it difficult to keep the names of the people you are quoting. Look at my previous reply. Tried to remove a couple of qoutes and get left with that mess.

[gl9999]

^^ ROFL. It's more like a cricket score:

The govt: 357

Red thugs with no mandate: 0

haha funny na?

Where is the 357 coming from?

Yellows lost 2 years in 'power'

so it's probably: reds 730 (days) yellows 0 - not exact but you get the idea

2 dozen people died for that. Glad you're celebrating the 'win'.

[hextac]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

[danc]

OK -- if I read that right you did just say that the Reds are controlled by the Mafia --- That is a new one on me!

How does Newin keep his friends? He's a smart smart man. Politically savvy. He can smell which way the wind will blow before the wind changes. How does he keep his power base? one way is because he is politically savvy he is able to deliver for his constituency. The other reasons would require gossip

No. The local up country mafia go with whichever they think provides the best medium term benefits. Nothing is as black and white as you describe.

This is no different from western democracies where all the big businesses give to all the major parties just to make sure they are in everyone's good books. The issue comes when the leading party of the day despite its major backers really starts to stir the major pot in Bangkok. No one party did it before because they had been made up of weak coalitions. TRT changed that.

I have read enough books and understood enough to see that there was a lot more in Thaksin's play book than selling his own business. Could you imagine if Thailand had passed laws which allowed foreigners 100% ownership of their companies even in restricted businesses. The only side to have been backing right then and there would have been Thaksin's and to beg him to protect your industry. Forget changing the constitution, he would have potentially re-written the rule book for the major Thai based businesses that form the very bricks and mortar and the entitled family institutions of the country. Some of the major families had a lot to gain by being with him, others were diversified enough internationally that they could handle the change.

Now that is a deal breaker for a lot of EXTREMELY powerful people.

The 20 or so families that in effect control most of Thai business and have closest proximity to the investment opportunities of many billions of dollars that exist, shall we say, over and above themselves in the hierarchy...a deal breaker indeed if that arrangement were to be challenged.

Edited May 5, 2010 by danc