Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[whybother]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

[hextac]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

And why do you think that is?

[whybother]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

And why do you think that is?

I have no idea. It's a 2 week timeframe. It has to be by Sept 30 for an election date of Nov 14.

WHY do they need to know the exact date?

[jdinasia]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

If you are keeping score --- (why?)

Abhisit said from the beginning that house dissolution was possible (contrary to what others claim)

Reds wanted NOW --- did they get NOW? No

Reds wanted NOW and for Abhisit to leave the country--- Did they get NOW and Abhisit to leave? No

Their final demand was 30 days--- Did they get that? No

Abhisit wanted time enough for the budget. Did he get it? Yes

Abhisit wanted to be PM for the military reshuffle. Did he get that? Yes

Abhisit wanted to oversee a countrywide/all parties reform of the constitution. Did he get the time for that? Yes

What matters most --- did Abhisit give in to a red mob that was violent and illegal? No. He gave them nothing they demanded. Did he show to the country that he was a reasonable man that was willing to negotiate for the peace and well-being of Thai people? Absolutely. The timing for him to announce his roadmap to reconciliation was PERFECT. Right after the Reds showed that not only are they violent, not only did they raid a hospital but most importantly right after Sae Daeng showed that he was in DIRECT control of the red shirt guards. The other leaders claimed that he wasn't a leader (in the past) but then there are the Pics with Sae Daeng with Thaksin. Sae Daeng's speeches about the "Ronin" and Sae Daeng's order to replace the barriers at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital place him firmly in a position of authority. Sae Daeng's and Arsiaman's words and actions combined with the words of the other red leaders could hang them all! --- Perfect timing for Abhisit to offer this plan

Please get the quotes right! you have to take out both the name AND the words including the block that includes "/qoute"

[jdinasia]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

Or they may simply be stalling ---- who knows. I think if they are stalling it will hurt them again.

edit -- I mean stalling before saying No

Edited May 5, 2010 by jdinasia

[ChiangMaiFun]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

If you are keeping score --- (why?)

Abhisit said from the beginning that house dissolution was possible (contrary to what others claim)

Reds wanted NOW --- did they get NOW? No

Reds wanted NOW and for Abhisit to leave the country--- Did they get NOW and Abhisit to leave? No

Their final demand was 30 days--- Did they get that? No

Abhisit wanted time enough for the budget. Did he get it? Yes

Abhisit wanted to be PM for the military reshuffle. Did he get that? Yes

Abhisit wanted to oversee a countrywide/all parties reform of the constitution. Did he get the time for that? Yes

What matters most --- did Abhisit give in to a red mob that was violent and illegal? No. He gave them nothing they demanded. Did he show to the country that he was a reasonable man that was willing to negotiate for the peace and well-being of Thai people? Absolutely. The timing for him to announce his roadmap to reconciliation was PERFECT. Right after the Reds showed that not only are they violent, not only did they raid a hospital but most importantly right after Sae Daeng showed that he was in DIRECT control of the red shirt guards. The other leaders claimed that he wasn't a leader (in the past) but then there are the Pics with Sae Daeng with Thaksin. Sae Daeng's speeches about the "Ronin" and Sae Daeng's order to replace the barriers at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital place him firmly in a position of authority. Sae Daeng's and Arsiaman's words and actions combined with the words of the other red leaders could hang them all! --- Perfect timing for Abhisit to offer this plan

Please get the quotes right! you have to take out both the name AND the words including the block that includes "/qoute"

Did Abhisit 'clear' the protestors? NO

Did Abhisit 'last' the full term? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Army? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Police? NO

Did Abhisit keep his job for the 4 years? NO

Did Abhisit have elections when he wanted? NO

Did Abhisit get international support? NO

Did JD get it right? NO

job done - game over

[Jingthing]

Lets get real.

If the hard core yellow PADs don't like it. Good!

If the hard core red insurgents don't like it. Good!

If Abhisit supporters can make a case that Abhisit did well. Good.

If more moderate reds can make the case that the reds did well. Good.

Abac poll today, 60 percent of ALL Thais support the resolution plan. GREAT!

Edited May 5, 2010 by Jingthing

[hextac]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

Or they may simply be stalling ---- who knows. I think if they are stalling it will hurt them again.

edit -- I mean stalling before saying No

The dissolution date is critical. If not soon enough then, very probably a "no".

[danc]

It is a victory for the Reds as Abhisit if one wants to see things like this:-

At the weekend just gone, he was basically threatened by Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha to sign the written order for force to be used or he would get martial law. Abhisit's previous refusal to ever sign a written order - he likes to talk not to do - brought the matter to this point and thereby cemented the division still further between himself and Gen Anupong Paochinda and Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, who have always advocated a political solution. His cabinet by all accounts would not join him in signing the order, leaving him with martial law or a last ditch plan - the plan that we saw on TV the other night and the reason why so few others knew anything about it, which he had to put out as he knew he was damned if events went to actual dispersal and the bodies started piling up.

The plan and its vague sense of political nothings has included a date which he cannot over ride now - it would ruin all good faith if he goes back on this date as he has made it public. Yet, by doing this in a hurry he has alienated his own Chuan Leekpai, the all important Newin Chidchob, Dr Tul if one does not count him as a yellow (they tend to think of him as one of them) and the yellows by giving in to terrorists - add to that that he has still failed to win over the foreign press and media, who see his olive branch not as a piece of statemanship but a necessary compromise given his questionable (in their eyes) route to power.

But finally he has had the reds on the ropes but allowed them a way out, which they can claim as a victory, not least with 20 or so of their number "fallen" in the pursuit of "democracy", a power piece of realpolitik for the campaign trail.

the full article

Edited May 5, 2010 by danc

[whybother]

The dissolution date is critical. If not soon enough then, very probably a "no".

How does 2 weeks make a difference?

It has to be between Sept 14-30.

So will the reds reject the offer if it's the 28th?

[gymboy33]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

If you are keeping score --- (why?)

Abhisit said from the beginning that house dissolution was possible (contrary to what others claim)

Reds wanted NOW --- did they get NOW? No

Reds wanted NOW and for Abhisit to leave the country--- Did they get NOW and Abhisit to leave? No

Their final demand was 30 days--- Did they get that? No

Abhisit wanted time enough for the budget. Did he get it? Yes

Abhisit wanted to be PM for the military reshuffle. Did he get that? Yes

Abhisit wanted to oversee a countrywide/all parties reform of the constitution. Did he get the time for that? Yes

What matters most --- did Abhisit give in to a red mob that was violent and illegal? No. He gave them nothing they demanded. Did he show to the country that he was a reasonable man that was willing to negotiate for the peace and well-being of Thai people? Absolutely. The timing for him to announce his roadmap to reconciliation was PERFECT. Right after the Reds showed that not only are they violent, not only did they raid a hospital but most importantly right after Sae Daeng showed that he was in DIRECT control of the red shirt guards. The other leaders claimed that he wasn't a leader (in the past) but then there are the Pics with Sae Daeng with Thaksin. Sae Daeng's speeches about the "Ronin" and Sae Daeng's order to replace the barriers at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital place him firmly in a position of authority. Sae Daeng's and Arsiaman's words and actions combined with the words of the other red leaders could hang them all! --- Perfect timing for Abhisit to offer this plan

Please get the quotes right! you have to take out both the name AND the words including the block that includes "/qoute"

Did Abhisit 'clear' the protestors? NO

Did Abhisit 'last' the full term? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Army? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Police? NO

Did Abhisit keep his job for the 4 years? NO

Did Abhisit have elections when he wanted? NO

Did Abhisit get international support? NO

Did JD get it right? NO

job done - game over

i gotta admit the red side are in a better position then they were at the beginning of the protests..

and the av/dem worse..

for 2 reasons av/dem have had to bring forward the elections to the end of this year..

would they have done that if the reds hadnt have shown their hand?

but whoever wins that will be the main winners of this war..

and also av/dem party is in the process of being broken up and banned..

would that have happened if the reds hadnt shown up?

but of course its not a forgone conclusion they will be found guilty,,

maybe just started the process just to release some of the pressure the reds were trying to make

and maybe a not guilty has already been agreed..coz the dems seem to be pretty confident..

[jdinasia]

Which is exactly why the reds haven't accepted the offer.

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

Or they may simply be stalling ---- who knows. I think if they are stalling it will hurt them again.

edit -- I mean stalling before saying No

The dissolution date is critical. If not soon enough then, very probably a "no".

To hold elections on Nov 14th the dissolution MUST happen 45-60 days before the elections. Sooner than 60 days moves the latest possible election day up 1:1 Hence Sept 14-30.

[Insight]

It is a victory for the Reds as Abhisit if one wants to see things like this:-

At the weekend just gone, he was basically threatened by Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha to sign the written order for force to be used or he would get martial law. Abhisit's previous refusal to ever sign a written order - he likes to talk not to do - brought the matter to this point and thereby cemented the division still further between himself and Gen Anupong Paochinda and Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, who have always advocated a political solution. His cabinet by all accounts would not join him in signing the order, leaving him with martial law or a last ditch plan - the plan that we saw on TV the other night and the reason why so few others knew anything about it, which he had to put out as he knew he was damned if events went to actual dispersal and the bodies started piling up.

The plan and its vague sense of political nothings has included a date which he cannot over ride now - it would ruin all good faith if he goes back on this date as he has made it public. Yet, by doing this in a hurry he has alienated his own Chuan Leekpai, the all important Newin Chidchob, Dr Tul if one does not count him as a yellow (they tend to think of him as one of them) and the yellows by giving in to terrorists - add to that that he has still failed to win over the foreign press and media, who see his olive branch not as a piece of statemanship but a necessary compromise given his questionable (in their eyes) route to power.

But finally he has had the reds on the ropes but allowed them a way out, which they can claim as a victory, not least with 20 or so of their number "fallen" in the pursuit of "democracy", a power piece of realpolitik for the campaign trail.

the full article

The author of such works is usually considered to be correct 0% of the time. But then entirely believable all the same...

[jdinasia]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

If you are keeping score --- (why?)

Abhisit said from the beginning that house dissolution was possible (contrary to what others claim)

Reds wanted NOW --- did they get NOW? No

Reds wanted NOW and for Abhisit to leave the country--- Did they get NOW and Abhisit to leave? No

Their final demand was 30 days--- Did they get that? No

Abhisit wanted time enough for the budget. Did he get it? Yes

Abhisit wanted to be PM for the military reshuffle. Did he get that? Yes

Abhisit wanted to oversee a countrywide/all parties reform of the constitution. Did he get the time for that? Yes

What matters most --- did Abhisit give in to a red mob that was violent and illegal? No. He gave them nothing they demanded. Did he show to the country that he was a reasonable man that was willing to negotiate for the peace and well-being of Thai people? Absolutely. The timing for him to announce his roadmap to reconciliation was PERFECT. Right after the Reds showed that not only are they violent, not only did they raid a hospital but most importantly right after Sae Daeng showed that he was in DIRECT control of the red shirt guards. The other leaders claimed that he wasn't a leader (in the past) but then there are the Pics with Sae Daeng with Thaksin. Sae Daeng's speeches about the "Ronin" and Sae Daeng's order to replace the barriers at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital place him firmly in a position of authority. Sae Daeng's and Arsiaman's words and actions combined with the words of the other red leaders could hang them all! --- Perfect timing for Abhisit to offer this plan

Please get the quotes right! you have to take out both the name AND the words including the block that includes "/qoute"

Did Abhisit 'clear' the protestors? NO

Did Abhisit 'last' the full term? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Army? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Police? NO

Did Abhisit keep his job for the 4 years? NO

Did Abhisit have elections when he wanted? NO

Did Abhisit get international support? NO

Did JD get it right? NO

job done - game over

Hmmm point by point ---

Abhisit didn't HAVE to clear the protestors -- he had to contain them at the end and give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Did he last 4 years --- strawman -- 1) he never had 4 years 2) He said he was open to house dissolution early (Did he last the full term/ same answer , he never had a full term)

Did he have the support of the Army? Obviously he did. Look back to 2008 if you want to see what lack of support looks like!

Did abhisit have the support of the police? (look what having police support did for Chavalit in 2008) But --- he had support but they are fairly ineffectual.

Did he get to have elections when he wanted? Yes. After the budget, after the military shuffle that will put an Anti-Thaksin Army chief in charge, after HE leads a nationwide effort to amend the constitution. Yeah --- he gets EVERYTHING he mentioned in the negotiation with the Reds.

Did he get international support? ---- Did he ask for any? Nobody spoke out against him and that is more telling than anything. The only statements from the international community were wishes for this to be solved without violence.

I'll skip on the personal attack at the end Abhisit got what he stated publicly he wanted. The Reds got nothing they stated publicly they wanted. It isn't a football game but if it were ......

[hextac]

Did Abhisit 'clear' the protestors? NO

Did Abhisit 'last' the full term? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Army? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Police? NO

Did Abhisit keep his job for the 4 years? NO

Did Abhisit have elections when he wanted? NO

Did Abhisit get international support? NO

Did JD get it right? NO

job done - game over

Hmmm point by point ---

Abhisit didn't HAVE to clear the protestors -- he had to contain them at the end and give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Did he last 4 years --- strawman -- 1) he never had 4 years 2) He said he was open to house dissolution early (Did he last the full term/ same answer , he never had a full term)

Did he have the support of the Army? Obviously he did. Look back to 2008 if you want to see what lack of support looks like!

Did abhisit have the support of the police? (look what having police support did for Chavalit in 2008) But --- he had support but they are fairly ineffectual.

Did he get to have elections when he wanted? Yes. After the budget, after the military shuffle that will put an Anti-Thaksin Army chief in charge, after HE leads a nationwide effort to amend the constitution. Yeah --- he gets EVERYTHING he mentioned in the negotiation with the Reds.

Did he get international support? ---- Did he ask for any? Nobody spoke out against him and that is more telling than anything. The only statements from the international community were wishes for this to be solved without violence.

I'll skip on the personal attack at the end Abhisit got what he stated publicly he wanted. The Reds got nothing they stated publicly they wanted. It isn't a football game but if it were ......

The reds still haven't agreed though.

[cheguevara]

Ok then election after the budget is passed in parliament. Election after the appointment of the new army chief. I think's now reds 1 Democrats 2.

The yellows aren't playing. Look at their disgust at Abhisits offer to the reds.

If you are keeping score --- (why?)

Abhisit said from the beginning that house dissolution was possible (contrary to what others claim)

Reds wanted NOW --- did they get NOW? No

Reds wanted NOW and for Abhisit to leave the country--- Did they get NOW and Abhisit to leave? No

Their final demand was 30 days--- Did they get that? No

Abhisit wanted time enough for the budget. Did he get it? Yes

Abhisit wanted to be PM for the military reshuffle. Did he get that? Yes

Abhisit wanted to oversee a countrywide/all parties reform of the constitution. Did he get the time for that? Yes

What matters most --- did Abhisit give in to a red mob that was violent and illegal? No. He gave them nothing they demanded. Did he show to the country that he was a reasonable man that was willing to negotiate for the peace and well-being of Thai people? Absolutely. The timing for him to announce his roadmap to reconciliation was PERFECT. Right after the Reds showed that not only are they violent, not only did they raid a hospital but most importantly right after Sae Daeng showed that he was in DIRECT control of the red shirt guards. The other leaders claimed that he wasn't a leader (in the past) but then there are the Pics with Sae Daeng with Thaksin. Sae Daeng's speeches about the "Ronin" and Sae Daeng's order to replace the barriers at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital place him firmly in a position of authority. Sae Daeng's and Arsiaman's words and actions combined with the words of the other red leaders could hang them all! --- Perfect timing for Abhisit to offer this plan

Please get the quotes right! you have to take out both the name AND the words including the block that includes "/qoute"

Did Abhisit 'clear' the protestors? NO

Did Abhisit 'last' the full term? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Army? NO

Did Abhisit have support of Police? NO

Did Abhisit keep his job for the 4 years? NO

Did Abhisit have elections when he wanted? NO

Did Abhisit get international support? NO

Did JD get it right? NO

job done - game over

[cheguevara]

The reds still haven't agreed though.

What newspapers do you read? It's even in TheNation:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Reds-...p-30128573.html

[silentnine]

how can anyone say there was/is a winner.

the only loser is thailand as a country.

it would of been a far better idea to follow the model of the UK, with scotland & england having a type of separate government but remaining the same country.

as it stands now if the red 'win' the yellows will rebel. if the yellows 'win' the reds will rebel. get it .. no winner, everyone suffers.

[hextac]

The reds still haven't agreed though.

What newspapers do you read? It's even in TheNation:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Reds-...p-30128573.html

Sorry, I didn't realise that it was in "The Nation".

[lannarebirth]

It is a victory for the Reds as Abhisit if one wants to see things like this:-

At the weekend just gone, he was basically threatened by Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha to sign the written order for force to be used or he would get martial law. Abhisit's previous refusal to ever sign a written order - he likes to talk not to do - brought the matter to this point and thereby cemented the division still further between himself and Gen Anupong Paochinda and Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, who have always advocated a political solution. His cabinet by all accounts would not join him in signing the order, leaving him with martial law or a last ditch plan - the plan that we saw on TV the other night and the reason why so few others knew anything about it, which he had to put out as he knew he was damned if events went to actual dispersal and the bodies started piling up.

The plan and its vague sense of political nothings has included a date which he cannot over ride now - it would ruin all good faith if he goes back on this date as he has made it public. Yet, by doing this in a hurry he has alienated his own Chuan Leekpai, the all important Newin Chidchob, Dr Tul if one does not count him as a yellow (they tend to think of him as one of them) and the yellows by giving in to terrorists - add to that that he has still failed to win over the foreign press and media, who see his olive branch not as a piece of statemanship but a necessary compromise given his questionable (in their eyes) route to power.

But finally he has had the reds on the ropes but allowed them a way out, which they can claim as a victory, not least with 20 or so of their number "fallen" in the pursuit of "democracy", a power piece of realpolitik for the campaign trail.

the full article

-I've found Thanong interesting in the past and he raises a lot of good "what ifs" I never considered, but I also have seen the events he has described as having happened and those that will, either contradited later or never materializing at all.

[Pawpcorn]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

Monkfish, thanks also for the link. I thought his response was interesting especially the part where he is so confident that Abhisits Govenments LM charges are fully defenceable that he does not wan't amnesty from the charges. Interesting too that Journalists without frontiers have reported that Abhisit has abused this law for personal political gain.

this video linked to another interesting one... if anyone finds actual footage of the hospital invasion interesting; perhaps as a reminder of this group's "character"... here's the video...

[Pawpcorn]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

Could somebody tell me how to IGNORE deadsnoopy ? I'm tired of HIS misonderstanding of the whole situation!

I feel better already!

[hextac]

I feel better already!

I think it's pretty churlish to ignore people that have a different point of view from yourself on a discussion forum, particularly when discussing politics. Especially, given that TV is pretty well policed by Mods and Admins that should prevent those of you with fragile sensibilities being exposed to anything too unsavoury. Maybe there should be an "Ignore All Others" option where you could just post stuff safe in the knowledge that you'll agree with yourself.

[Jingthing]

How does this deal impact the chances Thaksin will come back and take power (either as dear leader or puppet master)?

[difos57]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

well put

Very well put.

[cheguevara]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

well put

Very well put.

Not at all well put. Anyone that thinks that this "roadmap" is a choice given by Abhisit to the red shirts, either to accept or leave it, has no idea about how politics, especially Thai politics, work. This "roadmap" was worked out between all parties behind the scenes. Not so much between Abhisit and Thaksin, but between Anupong and Thaksin. Anupong and Thaksin are the puppetmasters of Abhisit and the red shirts respectively. The roadmap is a way out for both sides in order to avoid losing face. Both sides have accepted it and are throwing in their little conditions here and there for the public to see and debate, but the real terms have been set. Abhisit out, red shirts home, elections in November.

[gl9999]

Not at all well put. Anyone that thinks that this "roadmap" is a choice given by Abhisit to the red shirts, either to accept or leave it, has no idea about how politics, especially Thai politics, work. This "roadmap" was worked out between all parties behind the scenes. Not so much between Abhisit and Thaksin, but between Anupong and Thaksin. Anupong and Thaksin are the puppetmasters of Abhisit and the red shirts respectively. The roadmap is a way out for both sides in order to avoid losing face. Both sides have accepted it and are throwing in their little conditions here and there for the public to see and debate, but the real terms have been set. Abhisit out, red shirts home, elections in November.

Wow. We've read a lot of ridiculous theories and speculations about what's happening on this board but this load of shit takes the cake. And this from someone who is chastising someone else about how 'politics, especially Thai politics' work.

It's obvious that the true puppetmaster is actually Xenu.

[jcbangkok]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

well put

Very well put.

Not at all well put. Anyone that thinks that this "roadmap" is a choice given by Abhisit to the red shirts, either to accept or leave it, has no idea about how politics, especially Thai politics, work. This "roadmap" was worked out between all parties behind the scenes. Not so much between Abhisit and Thaksin, but between Anupong and Thaksin. Anupong and Thaksin are the puppetmasters of Abhisit and the red shirts respectively. The roadmap is a way out for both sides in order to avoid losing face. Both sides have accepted it and are throwing in their little conditions here and there for the public to see and debate, but the real terms have been set. Abhisit out, red shirts home, elections in November.

Yes all groups (including the EC) who claim they didn't know of the PM's plan prior to the announcement are liars and the PM lied when he said he would no longer negotiate with the lawless mob. As well the reds lied when they said they needed time to decide if this was acceptable to them ... as if they have any say so at all in changing it except through violence and intimidation.

And unless you mistyped, your credibility has gone down quite a bit in claiming so called negotiations resulted in ... Abhisit out, red shirts home, elections in November.

Edit: If folks were so dishonest then it would have made more sense to come out and say how everyone worked on this road map since that would truly be the way to show reconciliation and avoid lose of face but the fact is people outside the red mob could care less if they lose face or not. And they can spin it any way they want but the bottom line is they are going to be prosecuted.

Edited May 5, 2010 by jcbangkok

[gatorsoft]

i beg to differ to your analysts valued opinion but my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........

20 votes in favor of Abhisit will surely win him the election Oh wait, by the time the next election comes he might already be banned from politics for 5 years.

20 votes he did not have before and that Thaksin did have

thats quite a swing away from T and to A and if that happened nationally........

are you really still banging that dissolution drum?

its a dog that won't hunt

Abhisit will be next PM and may even go to full term on this one

by the time he has dissolved Phua Thai on terrorist charges and bulldozed everyone else out of the way with criminal charges there won't be a credible opposition for them to compete against

it will be a one horse race

Let's all hope you are wrong about this. If the Peua Thai party is dissolved on terrorism charges and everyone else "bulldozed" out of the way, I fear there won't be a horse race. Only a prolonged and bloody conflict that rhetoric won't be able to solve.

If Abhisit acts the way you suggest, all of the world will see him as a treacherous liar that did not negotiate in good faith.

[gatorsoft]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.