Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[gatorsoft]

If you had read what I wrote the illustration had nothing to do with a comparison between Clitnton and Thaksin as people. It was about how people interpret the same data differently, and the lack of understanding between conservatives and liberals. There are two explanations: firstly, you want to deliberately distort and misrepresent what I said or second you lack the comprehension skills to read at a 6th grade level (what I wrote isn't exactly difficult prose). Given your venom, I'd have guessed the former; but given your writing, I fear it's the latter.

The comparison has to come in when you use stupid illustrations like that because of the huge difference in crimes between President Clinton and Thaksin.

No matter how much of a hooha people made about President Clinton, the fact was his only crime was not being able to keep his dick in his pants. It doesn't matter whether you're a conservative or a liberal, the 'crime' wasn't that serious. The Monica Lewinski thing was just politics and that's why so much of a fuss was made about it.

But whether you're a liberal or a conservative, whether you're Red or Yellow, surely you can tell when a person is corrupt right? Surely you can see how bad a person is if he has a couple of thousand people murdered right? You can analyze things differently from the next person but your moral compass must be in the other direction if you can't see a man for being a thief and murderer, no matter how many poor people he pretends to help.

Clinton's crime was committing perjury before a federal grand jury. When a sitting president feels justified in lying before a federal court, the entire justice system is mocked and discounted. The argument that it was just about sex and the questions should never have been asked are difficult to accept. If we get to decide whether a question is appropriate and should be answered truthfully, while under sworn oath, then our justice system is meaningless.

As Retarius points out correctly, two people can look at the same thing and reach drastically different conclusions. You say "surely you can tell when a person is corrupt right?" I am of the opinion that Abhisit is corrupt. Do you surely see that the same way as I? I doubt it.

[enginerevision]

" roadmap " sounds really funny for a guy coming from oxford

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How does this deal impact the chances Thaksin will come back and take power (either as dear leader or puppet master)?

Unlikely in the short term. The UDD leadership has NOT requested that any CRIMINAL charges are to be dropped (and nor has Abhisit proposed that of course) Thaksin's legal troubles, whatever anyone thinks of those, are of a criminal nature as far as the Thai justice and political system is concerned.

There HAS been a request to drop any political charges, including blanket allegations of advocating terrorism, lese majeste, overthrowing the government, and using the Royal institution for political purposes in general. This MAY (or may not) cover the 111 banned ex-TRT politicians and possibly political prisoners and dissidents, however would have NO effect on those fighting (or already convicted of) criminal charges, including Thaksin. (Also note that Abhisit has not yet responded to this request, and when push comes to shove, the UDD leadership may very well agree let political prisoners rot in jail as part of a deal they strike with Abhisit and the establishment.

So no need to worry.

(If you like something to worry about though (and I strongly suspect you do ) , consider perhaps the chances of Thaksin being granted amnesty due to a medical condition.

Edited May 5, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[retdson]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.

Very good post - but far too sensible. You've possibly overlooked the idea that some people actually ENJOY shouting at each other. You know - the sort of people you see in bars 'talking' about football in loud voices having the kind of conversations where no one actually listens to what anyone else says - unless it's to be reused as ammunition in the argument - and no one has the slightest intention of changing their opinion. That's what this board' is like. A very few people will actually listen to others and have an interest in the topic - but the majority of posters are like the crowd in the corner down the pub arguing about who they'd play in their starting line up if they were manager of England. It's an argument for the sake of it.

[timekeeper]

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

And why do you think that is?

I have no idea. It's a 2 week timeframe. It has to be by Sept 30 for an election date of Nov 14.

WHY do they need to know the exact date?

the deal with the reds, at least those from my wife's village is this:

you will all get paid in full and the village will get its cash bonus once Abhisit has agreed to dissolve the house and not until then.

so until he does exactly that, its uncertain that they will get paid from the slippery Thaksin and his cronies, so they do not want to go anywhere.

i would guess that deal also applies to the red leaders so they need to hear it from his own lips to get their millions in bonuses

so to qualify for payment he needs to say it

Abhisit knows it too, that why he is not saying it and has already had a subordinate to say it for him:

MCOT: Bangkok: Democrat Party spokesman Buranat: PM expected to dissolve House during Sept 14-30

if Abhisit can pull this off without actually saying a date himself, Thaksin and the Thai sponsor paymasters (a major national food outlet and a national beer company, amongst others) will save billions and the reds will go home empty handed

not exactly a vote winner for Phua Thai

it might be a good time to throw a 'sick note'' in, after all Abhisit has been under enormous pressure..

also there is the biggest worry of all for the reds,

how to maintain their ''peaceful protestor'' image when there are tons of munitions buried around Lumpini Park

how are they going to get them out without anyone seeing or how can they make sure they are not found by the authorities

throwing them in the lake is clearly not an option

a few hundred AK47's and thousands of grenades may later pose a bit of a PR problem for the ''peaceful'' reds

so a few delaying tactics until that problem is sorted is to be expected .

Edited May 6, 2010 by timekeeper

[whybother]

<snip>

also there is the biggest worry of all for the reds,

how to maintain their ''peaceful protestor'' image when there are tons of munitions buried around Lumpini Park

how are they going to get them out without anyone seeing or how can they make sure they are not found by the authorities

throwing them in the lake is clearly not an option

a few hundred AK47's and thousands of grenades may later pose a bit of a PR problem for the ''peaceful'' reds

so a few delaying tactics until that problem is sorted is to be expected .

They got it in. They'll get it out.

They just need to fold a lot of it up in the tents.

[timekeeper]

<snip>

also there is the biggest worry of all for the reds,

how to maintain their ''peaceful protestor'' image when there are tons of munitions buried around Lumpini Park

how are they going to get them out without anyone seeing or how can they make sure they are not found by the authorities

throwing them in the lake is clearly not an option

a few hundred AK47's and thousands of grenades may later pose a bit of a PR problem for the ''peaceful'' reds

so a few delaying tactics until that problem is sorted is to be expected .

They got it in. They'll get it out.

They just need to fold a lot of it up in the tents.

the reds have already said that they do not want to be searched on the way out but as theres no agreement in place yet about when they leave the government have wisely chosen to make no comment on the procedure.

the problem they have is that they thought they were going to march out triumphantly waving AK47's in the air

now they look like leaving with their tails between their legs, the munition stockpile is a big problem for them

i have no doubt that it can be resolved by paying the Army or Police to get them out for them, so they can be sold to weapons dealers within their own ranks, to be re-sold again to the reds at sometime in the future.

[ChiangMaiFun]

" roadmap " sounds really funny for a guy coming from oxford

'The road (maps) to hel_l are paved with good intentions"

[Thai at Heart]

" roadmap " sounds really funny for a guy coming from oxford

'The road (maps) to hel_l are paved with good intentions"

Peace processes these days all have road maps. The media love this kind of catchphrase.

Depends who's driving though.

The GPS to Peace seems so much more 21st century don't you think.

[mazeltov]

Does anyone here remember what Abhisit said exactly one year ago?

May 1, 2009 PM vows reconciliation in 8 months

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in

six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election

.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which

I won't mind dissolving the House

," he said.

...

Should the political reconciliation materialise and the economy show signs of recovery by the year's end, the government will be

ready to return its mandate to the people

for charting the future course, he said.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/01/pol...cs_30101786.php

Good Luck, don't forget that there is an IF in this years promise by Abhisit. Do you believe him? 55555

[whybother]

Does anyone here remember what Abhisit said exactly one year ago?

May 1, 2009 PM vows reconciliation in 8 months

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in

six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election

.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which

I won't mind dissolving the House

," he said.

...

Should the political reconciliation materialise and the economy show signs of recovery by the year's end, the government will be

ready to return its mandate to the people

for charting the future course, he said.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/01/pol...cs_30101786.php

Good Luck, don't forget that there is an IF in this years promise by Abhisit. Do you believe him? 55555

Things didn't proceed as anticipated.

I think one of the main things Abhisit has been trying to do is to fix the constitution.

That was proceeding well, with proposed changes even including what the PTP were wanting, but then the PTP pulled out of all negotiations.

[timekeeper]

Does anyone here remember what Abhisit said exactly one year ago?

May 1, 2009 PM vows reconciliation in 8 months

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in

six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election

.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which

I won't mind dissolving the House

," he said.

...

Should the political reconciliation materialise and the economy show signs of recovery by the year's end, the government will be

ready to return its mandate to the people

for charting the future course, he said.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/01/pol...cs_30101786.php

Good Luck, don't forget that there is an IF in this years promise by Abhisit. Do you believe him? 55555

i believe he is a shrewd poker player to leave the door open............

[midas]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.

Very good post - but far too sensible. You've possibly overlooked the idea that some people actually ENJOY shouting at each other. You know - the sort of people you see in bars 'talking' about football in loud voices having the kind of conversations where no one actually listens to what anyone else says - unless it's to be reused as ammunition in the argument - and no one has the slightest intention of changing their opinion. That's what this board' is like. A very few people will actually listen to others and have an interest in the topic - but the majority of posters are like the crowd in the corner down the pub arguing about who they'd play in their starting line up if they were manager of England. It's an argument for the sake of it.

In football crowd style......" oh its all gone quiet over there "

[whybother]

THE NATION: PM Abhisit confirmed Thursday that House will be dissolved any day between Sept 15 to 30.

So, the reds won't be going home, since they wanted an EXACT date for some reason.

And because of that, there will be no election this year.

Edited May 6, 2010 by whybother

[timekeeper]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.

Very good post - but far too sensible. You've possibly overlooked the idea that some people actually ENJOY shouting at each other. You know - the sort of people you see in bars 'talking' about football in loud voices having the kind of conversations where no one actually listens to what anyone else says - unless it's to be reused as ammunition in the argument - and no one has the slightest intention of changing their opinion. That's what this board' is like. A very few people will actually listen to others and have an interest in the topic - but the majority of posters are like the crowd in the corner down the pub arguing about who they'd play in their starting line up if they were manager of England. It's an argument for the sake of it.

In football crowd style......" oh its all gone quiet over there "

is there a question in there somewhere?

[difos57]

They have effectively accepted the offer. They are just waiting on an exact date of dissolution (which will be between Sept 14-30).

And why do you think that is?

I have no idea. It's a 2 week timeframe. It has to be by Sept 30 for an election date of Nov 14.

WHY do they need to know the exact date?

the deal with the reds, at least those from my wife's village is this:

you will all get paid in full and the village will get its cash bonus once Abhisit has agreed to dissolve the house and not until then.

so until he does exactly that, its uncertain that they will get paid from the slippery Thaksin and his cronies, so they do not want to go anywhere.

i would guess that deal also applies to the red leaders so they need to hear it from his own lips to get their millions in bonuses

so to qualify for payment he needs to say it

Abhisit knows it too, that why he is not saying it and has already had a subordinate to say it for him:

MCOT: Bangkok: Democrat Party spokesman Buranat: PM expected to dissolve House during Sept 14-30

if Abhisit can pull this off without actually saying a date himself, Thaksin and the Thai sponsor paymasters (a major national food outlet and a national beer company, amongst others) will save billions and the reds will go home empty handed

not exactly a vote winner for Phua Thai

it might be a good time to throw a 'sick note'' in, after all Abhisit has been under enormous pressure..

also there is the biggest worry of all for the reds,

how to maintain their ''peaceful protestor'' image when there are tons of munitions buried around Lumpini Park

how are they going to get them out without anyone seeing or how can they make sure they are not found by the authorities

throwing them in the lake is clearly not an option

a few hundred AK47's and thousands of grenades may later pose a bit of a PR problem for the ''peaceful'' reds

so a few delaying tactics until that problem is sorted is to be expected .

Not to mention the dead bodies stolen from the hospital, (they needed the bullets recovered), and the nitrate traces found in the seventh floor womans washroom at the Chu hospital, they needed to recover that evidence.

[danc]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.

Very good post - but far too sensible. You've possibly overlooked the idea that some people actually ENJOY shouting at each other. You know - the sort of people you see in bars 'talking' about football in loud voices having the kind of conversations where no one actually listens to what anyone else says - unless it's to be reused as ammunition in the argument - and no one has the slightest intention of changing their opinion. That's what this board' is like. A very few people will actually listen to others and have an interest in the topic - but the majority of posters are like the crowd in the corner down the pub arguing about who they'd play in their starting line up if they were manager of England. It's an argument for the sake of it.

+ 1

[Jerrytheyoung]

The forum continues to be dominated by highly opinionated individuals with no room for considering an alternate viewpoint. It's simply amazing how nearly every poster has developed a knowledge of the inner workings and motivations of everyone else. Two-valued orientation: it's either white or black (I guess in this case red or yellow), good or bad, no gray area, no good on some points bad on others.

If there is any hope for at least temporary peace and return to normality in Thailand, each side has to take a deep breath and accept what is being said as true (I know, it's hard to do when you have every reason to distrust that the truth is being told). Reds need to call Abhisit's bluff, go home, and let him show the world if he is sincere or not. Abhisit needs to call the red's bluff, offer a firm date for house dissolution and let them show the world if they are sincere or not. As long as each side makes assumptions about what the other side is really planning, the conflict has no chance to end.

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Sure, many of you will argue that they will just find another reason to stay protesting, and many others will argue about the likelyhood that the government will back out of the annnounced dates. Maybe so. But prolonging a nation-damaging conflict because of what you think someone might do is the silliest act of all.

Some posters have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose the reds. Others have Thai spouses that vehemently oppose Abhisit. Telling us how your spouse and Thai friends feel doesn't accomplish much more than making you feel as though you have an inside track on information that may or may not be accurate.

The current, tentative moves toward peace and reconciliation are very fragile and apt to shatter at the slightest provocation (OK, now I'm guilty of stating things as fact that I really can't know for sure). Posting bloodthirsty calls for violence, while perhaps entertaining, seems designed to shatter whatever truce is being worked towards.

Let's try toning down the rhetoric, actually considering another viewpoint with an open mind, and hoping that the Thai people can find their way out of the current mess without further bloodshed.

Very good post - but far too sensible. You've possibly overlooked the idea that some people actually ENJOY shouting at each other. You know - the sort of people you see in bars 'talking' about football in loud voices having the kind of conversations where no one actually listens to what anyone else says - unless it's to be reused as ammunition in the argument - and no one has the slightest intention of changing their opinion. That's what this board' is like. A very few people will actually listen to others and have an interest in the topic - but the majority of posters are like the crowd in the corner down the pub arguing about who they'd play in their starting line up if they were manager of England. It's an argument for the sake of it.

we have to give time to time (Francois Mitterand)

The current government proposal may be a big step forward for democracy and social progress at the condition, Government and red Shirt leaders take the necessary time to finalise the agreement under all its more important aspects. The time spend in discussions now is a precious time which is building the unity and cleaning the dissonances in the Thai society. We should not push to rush as if an important clausus is missing in the agreement it can be source of resurgent conflicts. I say to Government and Red Shirts, everybody knows we are going to Peace, take your time for formalising the agreement in order all major aspects are covered and risks of resurgent conflicts are eliminated.

To all the impatients, I say you are postponing troubles with your impatience.

A great turning point in history for Thailand, that must not be mismanaged.....

(I support the quoted statements on which I bring the above complementary contribution)

Edited May 6, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[timekeeper]

Dissolution date on September 15-30: PM

By The Nation

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday confirmed the dissolution of Parliament to take place between September 15 and September 30, paving way for the November 14 poll.

Abhisit said he did not mention the dissolution date as part of his road map for reconciliation because he thought the timing for dissolution was evident by the poll date.

still no specific set date for dissolution

will it be enough for the reds to get paid ?

personally i don't not think so

Thaksin and his cronies will renege on payment to reds and leaders without a specific date issued by Abhisit himself

[jcbangkok]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

[whybother]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

Why would it matter for the reds if the election date has been set. Dissolution needs to come in those 2 weeks. How does it change anything if it is specified as the 20th or 21st, or any other date?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

Why would it matter for the reds if the election date has been set. Dissolution needs to come in those 2 weeks. How does it change anything if it is specified as the 20th or 21st, or any other date?

I believe they are ultra paranoid and need to say to their 'followers' - 'here's the date we promised you' - well that's how I read it which mean I'm probably wrong!

[timekeeper]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

Why would it matter for the reds if the election date has been set. Dissolution needs to come in those 2 weeks. How does it change anything if it is specified as the 20th or 21st, or any other date?

the deal with the reds, at least those from my wife's village is this:

you will all get paid in full and the village will get its cash bonus once Abhisit has agreed to dissolve the house, set the date and not until then.

so until he does exactly that, its uncertain that they will get paid from the slippery Thaksin and his cronies, so they do not want to go anywhere.

i would guess that deal also applies to the red leaders so they need to hear the date from his own lips to get their millions in bonuses

so to qualify for payment he is the one that needs to say it and exactly when

if Abhisit can pull this off without actually saying a date himself, Thaksin and the Thai sponsor paymasters (a major national food outlet and a national beer company, amongst others) will save billions and the reds will go home empty handed

not exactly a vote winner for Phua Thai

[Jerrytheyoung]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

Why would it matter for the reds if the election date has been set. Dissolution needs to come in those 2 weeks. How does it change anything if it is specified as the 20th or 21st, or any other date?

it is obvious that there are discussions on the way, on both sides. Democrats and their coalition are clearing their positions, Red Shirts are checking and locking all the points. Nobody is fouled, this dissolution date is just a pretext to gain time. It is confirmed that those current discussions are necessary before finalising the agreement: Abhisit has to put in the pictures some member of its coalition, if only himself was engaged, a change of PM by the coalition and the agreement will be voided.

On the Red Shirts side, they cannot leave Ratjaprasong without an agreement which is solid as a rock, independantly of Abhisit person, and covering all the most important aspects.

So we have to let both parts doing their job and securing the agreement. It is better to loose a couple of days than to see again some troubles in few months. It is also participate to reestablishing a dialog between opponents: cooling down the atmosphere, a necessary step.

we should refrain to comment too much as the discussions are on-going and obviously working in the good direction: Peace.

[timekeeper]

Several posters have pointed out that demanding a firm date for dissolution is "silly" since they can count back from Nov 14 and find the date themselves. If this is the case, why can't Abhisit simply announce the date publicly for dissolution and let the reds go home?

Do you really believe the reds will keep their word and that this is really the sticking point?

I do... if it's 'obvious' when the date is - say it - otherwise people will 'tink too mut' (and maybe rightly)

Why would it matter for the reds if the election date has been set. Dissolution needs to come in those 2 weeks. How does it change anything if it is specified as the 20th or 21st, or any other date?

it is obvious that there are discussions on the way, on both sides. Democrats and their coalition are clearing their positions, Red Shirts are checking and locking all the points. Nobody is fouled, this dissolution date is just a pretext to gain time. It is confirmed that those current discussions are necessary before finalising the agreement: Abhisit has to put in the pictures some member of its coalition, if only himself was engaged, a change of PM by the coalition and the agreement will be voided.

On the Red Shirts side, they cannot leave Ratjaprasong without an agreement which is solid as a rock, independantly of Abhisit person, and covering all the most important aspects.

So we have to let both parts doing their job and securing the agreement. It is better to loose a couple of days than to see again some troubles in few months. It is also participate to reestablishing a dialog between opponents: cooling down the atmosphere, a necessary step.

we should refrain to comment too much as the discussions are on-going and obviously working in the good direction: Peace.

why would we refrain to comment Jerry, surely you do not think anyone of any substance reads whats on here do you?

or takes any notice of it?

if they did it would have been all over weeks ago....

[mazeltov]

Does anyone here remember what Abhisit said exactly one year ago?

May 1, 2009 PM vows reconciliation in 8 months

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in

six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election

.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which

I won't mind dissolving the House

," he said.

...

Should the political reconciliation materialise and the economy show signs of recovery by the year's end, the government will be

ready to return its mandate to the people

for charting the future course, he said.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/01/pol...cs_30101786.php

Good Luck, don't forget that there is an IF in this years promise by Abhisit. Do you believe him? 55555

Things didn't proceed as anticipated.

I think one of the main things Abhisit has been trying to do is to fix the constitution.

That was proceeding well, with proposed changes even including what the PTP were wanting, but then the PTP pulled out of all negotiations.

Well, in the quote above Abhisit speak about Dissolution of the House and snap election, after he had steered the country out of turmoil and brought normalcy in six to eight months.

Now according to Abhisit normalcy was restored even in a shorter time frame. On September 27, 2009 he said exactly that:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday that his visit to the United States would help improve Thailand's image in the international community and show the country's readiness to resume its role in world forums.

"Thailand has been absent from the global stage for a long time. Now we have made a comeback," he said.

Abhisit said he had reassured foreign political and business leaders he met during his visit that the country had returned to normalcy.

The prime minister said he believed business leaders now had a better understanding of and increased confidence in Thailand.

September 27, 2009, The Nation

Of course Abhisit wouldn't be Abhisit if you could believe what he says. Only a fool would trust his words. He only act more careful now and will later have the excuse: "I only said IF, but ..."

[chantorn]

Has it appears to you that the reason why the Red shirt still remains; is that a lot of these people are so poor, they have to why to go back to. Especially the homeless of Sanumluang who now sleeps in Central World and provided free food.

Even the pigeon of Sanumluang are better treated with new homes.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/worldhotne...-at-Sanam-Luang

[pornsasi]

It is a victory for the Reds as Abhisit if one wants to see things like this:-

At the weekend just gone, he was basically threatened by Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha to sign the written order for force to be used or he would get martial law. Abhisit's previous refusal to ever sign a written order - he likes to talk not to do - brought the matter to this point and thereby cemented the division still further between himself and Gen Anupong Paochinda and Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, who have always advocated a political solution. His cabinet by all accounts would not join him in signing the order, leaving him with martial law or a last ditch plan - the plan that we saw on TV the other night and the reason why so few others knew anything about it, which he had to put out as he knew he was damned if events went to actual dispersal and the bodies started piling up.

The plan and its vague sense of political nothings has included a date which he cannot over ride now - it would ruin all good faith if he goes back on this date as he has made it public. Yet, by doing this in a hurry he has alienated his own Chuan Leekpai, the all important Newin Chidchob, Dr Tul if one does not count him as a yellow (they tend to think of him as one of them) and the yellows by giving in to terrorists - add to that that he has still failed to win over the foreign press and media, who see his olive branch not as a piece of statemanship but a necessary compromise given his questionable (in their eyes) route to power.

But finally he has had the reds on the ropes but allowed them a way out, which they can claim as a victory, not least with 20 or so of their number "fallen" in the pursuit of "democracy", a power piece of realpolitik for the campaign trail.

the full article

I find the article of Thanong very interesting , thank you for sharing .

One of the point mentioned is

It appeared that Abhisit would like to isolate the Bhumjai Thai and seek an alliance with the Pheu Thai instead. After this scene of the "great pretender", anything can happen in Thai politics.

I have been myself thinking of this somewhat unusual solution to end the conflict in a durable way . With the Dems controlling Bangkok and the South and the PT controlling the Center and the North such an alliance of equals is politically speaking very attractive . It would also establish the PM ascendancy over the die-hard ultra conservatives of his own party , who doubtless will do everything to sabotage any kind of deal with the PT , and it would allow the PM to push his reform plan . Advantages for the PT are also numerous ,as it would enable them to regain a measure of power , and distance them in the public opinion from the most extremist red shirts , which are not exactly too popular . Finally the country would IMHO enormously benefit from such an arrangement

Those who lack imagination can not imagine what is lacking .

PM Abhisit has surely prooven that on that account he is by far the most imaginative politician

in this conflict

[Jerrytheyoung]

why would we refrain to comment Jerry, surely you do not think anyone of any substance reads whats on here do you?

or takes any notice of it?

if they did it would have been all over weeks ago....

Because our comments are fully disconnected with the on-going negotiations; we are just making speculations in the vacuum, talking for talking ... of poor interest