Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[frodo]

the problem the reds have now is getting all the heavy munitions out of the area without the authorities catching them doing it

if they catch them trying to move all the munitions buried in Lumpini park then thats another nail in the 'we were peaceful protestors'' coffin and adds to the terrorist charges that they are so keen to defend in court.

if they leave them then the authorities will find them anyway

so they have a rock and a hard place problem

they can hardly claim 'not us' when they are concealed behind enemy lines ...........

NOTHING HAS CHANGED

Indeed, and there are still tanks waiting to move at the given sound.

[Crushdepth]

I'm glad the red leaders insist there be no amnesty for their crimes, because I for one would rather see them shot than let off for the anarchy, destruction and loss of life they have caused.

I'm not optimistic though, my experience of Thailand is that nobody ever gets punished for anything. Someone will forget to confiscate their passports and they'll be overseas for permanent and essential medical treatment in a flash. Probably wheelchaired into first class seats, of course.

[timekeeper]

Well, you can say what you want, but this is it. Abhisit has done what is possible and leaned over further than any politician ever before him and the reds are not happy (which was to be expected). They will not be happy unless a total pardon is given which is impossible. Thaksin is not happy because he would not be able to get back into power despite what his "medium" predicted.

Mr. Abhisit, it is time!

Nobody can put any blame upon you or the Thai government for any dead rand wounded ed's during a clean-up operation and the arrest of their leaders etc..

PLEASE do it tonight

They simply will and can not stop until they get what they want since they know, anything else will mean jail

it won't happen tonight, timing is critical and tomorrow is Coronation Day

the day of celebration will give the reds time to consider their fate if they do not concede........

[Herm]

Abhisit deserves credit for independently fashioning a satisfactory compromise in a statesman-like fashion and avoiding further bloodshed.

The Red Shirts have successfully pushed their issues to the forefront of the political agenda, rallied impressive numbers of Thais to their cause, and galvanized their supporters ahead of parliamentary elections in six months. There they'll have the opportunity via the ballot box to start down the path of transforming the political landscape.

Apparently you have not quite grasped the situation NOTHING HAS CHANGED the reds responded by agreeing BUT than quickly proceeded to make demands that can not be agreed with by the government - if they do not succeed the leaders will go to jail and Thaksin will have wasted a lot of money - Abhisit made a brilliant move and now, a crackdown will be accepted by all .. well except the reds of course and I hope is it going to happen tonight - its the only way to stop that criminal, violent mob

[monkfish]

"We will continue the rally until Abhisit says clearly when he will dissolve the House. Then we will discuss our next move," one of the protest leaders, Jatuporn Prompan, told reporters.

Yeppers, jatuporn heard "No Amnesty" and that ended negotiations. typical.

The message --- Thailand doesn't matter to the Reds. Do what we want THEN we will talk about what you want. I am afraid the reds may get what they want over the next few days .... a real crackdown.

You obviously did not hear the announcement but already making false accusations.

[Herm]

Well, you can say what you want, but this is it. Abhisit has done what is possible and leaned over further than any politician ever before him and the reds are not happy (which was to be expected). They will not be happy unless a total pardon is given which is impossible. Thaksin is not happy because he would not be able to get back into power despite what his "medium" predicted.

Mr. Abhisit, it is time!

Nobody can put any blame upon you or the Thai government for any dead rand wounded ed's during a clean-up operation and the arrest of their leaders etc..

PLEASE do it tonight

They simply will and can not stop until they get what they want since they know, anything else will mean jail

it won't happen tonight, timing is critical and tomorrow is Coronation Day

the day of celebration will give the reds time to consider their fate if they do not concede........

dam_n you are right, forgot about the coronation day tomorrow but hopefully Thursday....

[hjvdhoef]

Well, you can say what you want, but this is it. Abhisit has done what is possible and leaned over further than any politician ever before him and the reds are not happy (which was to be expected). They will not be happy unless a total pardon is given which is impossible. Thaksin is not happy because he would not be able to get back into power despite what his "medium" predicted.

Mr. Abhisit, it is time!

Nobody can put any blame upon you or the Thai government for any dead rand wounded ed's during a clean-up operation and the arrest of their leaders etc..

PLEASE do it tonight

They simply will and can not stop until they get what they want since they know, anything else will mean jail

anything else will mean jail.......

You're joking.All the yellow shirts are still walking free and get top functions.

[jdinasia]

"We will continue the rally until Abhisit says clearly when he will dissolve the House. Then we will discuss our next move," one of the protest leaders, Jatuporn Prompan, told reporters.

Yeppers, jatuporn heard "No Amnesty" and that ended negotiations. typical.

The message --- Thailand doesn't matter to the Reds. Do what we want THEN we will talk about what you want. I am afraid the reds may get what they want over the next few days .... a real crackdown.

You obviously did not hear the announcement but already making false accusations.

I guess you missed the quotation marks :-)

But please feel free to fill me in on what I said that was false (not reported in the News section here)

[monkfish]

[Jerrytheyoung]

My interpretation is that it is a "yes on principle' but still some points to clarify. Reds need to maintain the pressure until the agreement is achieved, the date dissolution is the ultimate pressure for getting some answers: we are on a good way, just negotiating tactics ....

[Jingthing]

My take, this isn't going to work. The reds are playing a game now. If they were serious about saying yes, they would go home now. They realize they had to say yes for PR reasons but clearly the do not mean it and will find excuses not to honor their phony agreement.

[siampolee]

timekeeper

I wonder if this is considered a win and the Red protestors will get their ID cards back and get paid for their efforts?

I heard they would only get paid by Thaksin if Abhisit was forced out and the house dissolved....

I bet there's many a red in Bangkok wondering exactly the same thing.........

Possibly an interesting situation.

If payment is expected by sections of the ''demonstrators'' and it is not forthcoming that could indeed be a bite in the bum for brothers 1-4 and their puppet master Thaksin.

Perchance it could be a case of ''Watch this space'' at the demonstration area.

To be polite it could all go bosoms up !!

[misterjag]

the problem the reds have now is getting all the heavy munitions out of the area without the authorities catching them doing it

if they catch them trying to move all the munitions buried in Lumpini park then thats another nail in the 'we were peaceful protestors'' coffin and adds to the terrorist charges that they are so keen to defend in court.

if they leave them then the authorities will find them anyway

so they have a rock and a hard place problem

they can hardly claim 'not us' when they are concealed behind enemy lines ...........

This whole agreement could fall apart if Abhisit isn't granting a general amnesty and permitting the protesters to peacefully disperse en mass. The protesters shouldn't be subject to pat downs or harassment. Just let them leave the retail district peacefully.

If the police and/or military want to uncover the identities of the hooded militia, they can resume their investigation after the retail district is clear of protesters.

Abhisit needs to decisively seize the initiative to end this standoff now. Peacefully clearing the retail district of thousands of protesters is a far greater priority than hunting down a relative handful of militia.

Edited May 4, 2010 by misterjag

[midas]

Abhisit deserves credit for independently fashioning a satisfactory compromise in a statesman-like fashion and avoiding further bloodshed.

The Red Shirts have successfully pushed their issues to the forefront of the political agenda, rallied impressive numbers of Thais to their cause, and galvanized their supporters ahead of parliamentary elections in six months. There they'll have the opportunity via the ballot box to start down the path of transforming the political landscape.

Apparently you have not quite grasped the situation NOTHING HAS CHANGED the reds responded by agreeing BUT than quickly proceeded to make demands that can not be agreed with by the government - if they do not succeed the leaders will go to jail and Thaksin will have wasted a lot of money - Abhisit made a brilliant move and now, a crackdown will be accepted by all .. well except the reds of course and I hope is it going to happen tonight - its the only way to stop that criminal, violent mob

shame on you

You are probablyin this country on a visa and here you are advocating

violence by this government against its own people !

This is not a tv reality show

[MacWalen]

Update:

Red-shirt core leader Veera Musikkapong has formally accepted the proposal made by PM Abhisit Vejjajiva as a foundation for further negotiations to end the red-shirt rally to avoid any more casualty.

No kidding guys, I think this is the rain that makes protesters go home and puts them in a more negotiable mood, it was coming down heavy today and yesterday so I guess it is hard to keep women and children demonstrating.

I wish both sides peace and resolution of differences.

As for the compensation, I don't think there will be any, sorry.

Masses are always over promised and once they served their purpose left to fend for themselves. The only way they can change it is try to improve their life little by little especially educating their kids, education is not held in high esteem in many rural parts of the country unfortunately.

I know a friend who slept on a floor in her house in Issan when a little girl and now she is a manager at an international company, that is what I call a real progress. Helping her family, promoting her younger sister and setting a good example. She wanted to learn and refused to remain just a poor village girl expecting that someone will give her something.

I know also an example of a friend trying to help parents to improve their farm so it would make much more money but to no avail as the father will not listen to her, the man knows better than his university educated daughter, perhaps considering at least would be better, the end result was she came back to bkk and let the farm go down and father may hope that a bank, government or some powerful person will give him something if things get bad. The point I am making is that those poor people are being taken advantage of by being promised things that are very vague and most of then will be dissapointed. Suppose Mr Thaksin becomes a leader again what specifically will he give to all the 'rural poor' as they like to call them in the news? What specifically?!!!!! Money handouts? I am sure the leaders will be fine but what about all the others? There will not be a real change until they help themselves! If government helps them they should treat is as a bonus but not something I would count on.

This is a good country with many opportunities, so if you want to count on anybody count on yourself, that would be my advice. At the moment the best way forward is to promote peace.

Lets hope things will get only better now. Peace to all

Edited May 4, 2010 by macwalen

[Jerrytheyoung]

My take, this isn't going to work. The reds are playing a game now. If they were serious about saying yes, they would go home now. They realize they had to say yes for PR reasons but clearly the do not mean it and will find excuses not to honor their phony agreement.

Disagree on the interpretation, General Chavalit has given a positive sign and UDD MPs are behind... No just few things to fix before we get a final agreement....

Edited May 4, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[gymboy33]

My take, this isn't going to work. The reds are playing a game now. If they were serious about saying yes, they would go home now. They realize they had to say yes for PR reasons but clearly the do not mean it and will find excuses not to honor their phony agreement.

and vise versa av/dems could easily find excuses not to keep to his phony agreement.. And push back the election date..If it gives them more of an advantage!

[deadsnoopy]

Sounds acceptable. Abhisit has so far proposed November 14 elections, but he has not set a date to dissolve parliament and he has not confirmed the November 14 date with the Election Commission. So far it's just a proposal. He needs to go that further step and confirm that he's sincere about holding elections, confirm the date with the Election Commission and then I'm sure the red shirts will gladly go home.

[deadsnoopy]

My take, this isn't going to work. The reds are playing a game now. If they were serious about saying yes, they would go home now. They realize they had to say yes for PR reasons but clearly the do not mean it and will find excuses not to honor their phony agreement.

Go home for what? Abhisit hasn't even registered the November 14 date with the Election Commission yet, so his roadmap is meaningless unless he does that. Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home. Let's see if he meant what he said.

[landofthefree]

Red-shirt leaders demand PM to specify House dissolution date

The red-shirt leaders Tuesday demanded that the prime minister announce a specific day for House dissolution before they will join the government's roadmap for political resolution.

They announced that the prime minister had no authority to set the election date on November 14 as the power belongs to the Election Commission.

They demanded that the government must show its sincerity towards political reconciliation by halting all kinds of intimidation towards the red-shirt protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-05-04

I think we can close this thread until further notice. MYbe I am dumb, but why must there be a house dissolution before the the election.

BBC are reporting that the reds are unconcerned by the date of election, they want to know when the house will be dissolved

this is still in line with their previous demands, so nothings really changed

they want Abhisit to dissolve the house quickly, so that he cannot pass the 2011 budget, and more importantly so he cannot amend the constitution to keep Thaksin and his cronies out and so that he can oversee the military reshuffle to see Anapong retire, and install Thaksin hater General Prayuth who will be the hard man that will bring the Army back on track

the reds know that if Abhisit can achieve these items on his personal road map then the red cause will be all but over bar the shouting

he can dissolve parliament almost when he chooses to

Gordon Brown dissolved the UK parliament on April 6th 2010 and the elections are the day after tomorrow

so a month is feasable and would be good news for Abhisit

get everything passed, in the meantime get the red shirt leaders, their associates and the Phua Thai Mp's charged with terrorism, lesse majeste, treason and murder

get the Phua Thai party dissolved for treason,

Thaksin will be proven to be a murderous, traiterous conspirator

there will be more trials here than there were in Salem

Abhisit will romp home with Korn as deputy in the biggest landslide this country has ever seen

There won't be any trials or convictions a closed doors deal has already been done to guarantee the Reds and Yellows imunity from prosecution why do you think the Reds are happy to wait until November? I have yet to see any political analyst who thinks that Abhisit stands a snowball's chance in hel_l of winning the next election as they say that his associations with the Ammart that brought him to power will also be his undoing at the next election. People around the country won't vote for the minority Ammart.

Edited May 4, 2010 by landofthefree

[Jerrytheyoung]

Yes agreement has to be formalised

[deadsnoopy]

Well, you can say what you want, but this is it. Abhisit has done what is possible and leaned over further than any politician ever before him and the reds are not happy (which was to be expected). They will not be happy unless a total pardon is given which is impossible. Thaksin is not happy because he would not be able to get back into power despite what his "medium" predicted.

Mr. Abhisit, it is time!

Nobody can put any blame upon you or the Thai government for any dead rand wounded ed's during a clean-up operation and the arrest of their leaders etc..

PLEASE do it tonight

They simply will and can not stop until they get what they want since they know, anything else will mean jail

Look at all of you. You've been calling for the government to kill its own people for over a month now. Now that a mutual agreement to peaceful reconciliation is almost worked out, the only thing you can think of is making one last call for violence and crackdown. Your call for dead and injured civilians isn't going to be answered.

[MacWalen]

Of course threats, save lives, means we will kill them if they come to remove the barricades. Negotiation from the position of power. We do it so we save them. Thank you very much.

[slapout]

What would anyone expect of the red leaders, other than delay, want more, point fingers, talk, appoint committee to talk, wait for the authorization from their boss/es,etc, etc. Few people in the world can dodge and evade the word no and yes when it suits them, as well as Thais. The only given is these fellows speak with forked tongue. Rain, come on rain.

[Eclipse]

Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home.

Apart from the criminal leaders who will go straight to jail where they belong.

[deadsnoopy]

There won't be any trials or covictions a closed doors deal has already been done to guarantee the Reds and Yellows imunity from prosecution why do you think the Reds are happy to wait until November? I have yet to see any political analyst who thinks that Abhisit stands a snowball's chance of winning the next election as they say that his associations with the Ammart that brought him to power will also be his undoing at the next election. People around the country won't vote for the minority Ammart.

I agree that there are many more points to the agreement that the public won't ever see or hear about. This is a "face-saving" show for everyone now. Abhisit proposes an agreement, red shirts counter it with some points of their own, Abhisit sets a date with the EC for the next election and sets a date to dissolve the house. Done. Both sides have "won" ..and more importantly, both sides have "saved face".

[Eclipse]

There won't be any trials or covictions a closed doors deal has already been done to guarantee the Reds and Yellows imunity from prosecution why do you think the Reds are happy to wait until November? I have yet to see any political analyst who thinks that Abhisit stands a snowball's chance of winning the next election as they say that his associations with the Ammart that brought him to power will also be his undoing at the next election. People around the country won't vote for the minority Ammart.

I agree that there are many more points to the agreement that the public won't ever see or hear about. This is a "face-saving" show for everyone now. Abhisit proposes an agreement, red shirts counter it with some points of their own, Abhisit sets a date with the EC for the next election and sets a date to dissolve the house. Done. Both sides have "won" ..and more importantly, both sides have "saved face".

And the red leaders go to jail where criminals belong.

[misterjag]

Sounds acceptable. Abhisit has so far proposed November 14 elections, but he has not set a date to dissolve parliament and he has not confirmed the November 14 date with the Election Commission. So far it's just a proposal. He needs to go that further step and confirm that he's sincere about holding elections, confirm the date with the Election Commission and then I'm sure the red shirts will gladly go home.

It's understandable that the Red Shirts would need some further assurances or clarifications. At this point at least, it sounds like both parties want to end the standoff and are acting in good faith.

[deadsnoopy]

Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home.

Apart from the criminal leaders who will go straight to jail where they belong.

You mean the red shirt leaders? Sure, they will go to jail. But they'll be out in 6 hours, just like the yellow shirt leaders were. The yellow shirts occupied government house for 8 months and 2 international airports for 10 days, much much worse than the red shirts who entered government house for 30 minutes and occupied a street in the city for 1 month.

Abhisit has surely already made a "behind doors" amnesty deal for the red shirt leaders, believe me. If they're arrested and held for longer than the yellow shirts, there will be red shirts all around the prison within minutes taking them out, I'm sure. But I doubt it will get that far.

[timekeeper]

Red-shirt leaders demand PM to specify House dissolution date

The red-shirt leaders Tuesday demanded that the prime minister announce a specific day for House dissolution before they will join the government's roadmap for political resolution.

They announced that the prime minister had no authority to set the election date on November 14 as the power belongs to the Election Commission.

They demanded that the government must show its sincerity towards political reconciliation by halting all kinds of intimidation towards the red-shirt protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-05-04

I think we can close this thread until further notice. MYbe I am dumb, but why must there be a house dissolution before the the election.

BBC are reporting that the reds are unconcerned by the date of election, they want to know when the house will be dissolved

this is still in line with their previous demands, so nothings really changed

they want Abhisit to dissolve the house quickly, so that he cannot pass the 2011 budget, and more importantly so he cannot amend the constitution to keep Thaksin and his cronies out and so that he can oversee the military reshuffle to see Anapong retire, and install Thaksin hater General Prayuth who will be the hard man that will bring the Army back on track

the reds know that if Abhisit can achieve these items on his personal road map then the red cause will be all but over bar the shouting

he can dissolve parliament almost when he chooses to

Gordon Brown dissolved the UK parliament on April 6th 2010 and the elections are the day after tomorrow

so a month is feasable and would be good news for Abhisit

get everything passed, in the meantime get the red shirt leaders, their associates and the Phua Thai Mp's charged with terrorism, lesse majeste, treason and murder

get the Phua Thai party dissolved for treason,

Thaksin will be proven to be a murderous, traiterous conspirator

there will be more trials here than there were in Salem

Abhisit will romp home with Korn as deputy in the biggest landslide this country has ever seen

There won't be any trials or convictions a closed doors deal has already been done to guarantee the Reds and Yellows imunity from prosecution why do you think the Reds are happy to wait until November? I have yet to see any political analyst who thinks that Abhisit stands a snowball's chance in hel_l of winning the next election as they say that his associations with the Ammart that brought him to power will also be his undoing at the next election. People around the country won't vote for the minority Ammart.

i beg to differ to your analysts valued opinion but my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........