Long Term Bush Dwellers

[meadish_sweetball]

I'd like to hear from the long-term dwellers a bit about their relations to the Thais around them, not counting the immediate family.

Do you have any Thai friends you count as close, or closer, as your closest farang friends?

Have you ever gotten to the point with a Thai male friend, that you can discuss your deep thoughts, and get to take part of this person's deeper thoughts?

Do you feel as a part of the community where you live, or are you interpreted as the 'farang' in everything you say and do?

Could you describe what stages you have gone through in adapting to the new culture around you (and I am not that interested in how you learned to use a squat toilet or eat chili, more in how you take part in the social interaction with your friends, family and neighbours).

In what ways, if any, have you changed since you came to live here?

Cheers,

meadish

[The Dude]

Well dude, I live in a farang bldg with rich farangs and their nose-in-the-air thai ladies. The pool and rec areas are great. The place is tip top luxury. The security dudes say kop everytime you enter and leave the bldg. This is enuf thai culture for me thanx

[meadish_sweetball]

Each one to their own, Dude. Kahlua and milk?

I am still interested in the long-time bush dwellers and their experiences. I didnt come to Thailand for the type of life you describe, but I can definitely understand the appeal.

[Totster]

Each one to their own, Dude. Kahlua and milk?

One of my favorite films

I am still interested in the long-time bush dwellers and their experiences. I didnt come to Thailand for the type of life you describe, but I can definitely understand the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure I am classed as a long term bush dweller yet (cos I'm not), but in my limited experience.....

I have some friends in the village, but none as close as farang friends. I think this is mainly because of the language barrier, although I am trying to learn I have to rely on my wife to translate most of the time. These friends however show all the traits of being good and loyal friends, even with the language barrier, and I'm sure (no positive) that these friendships will develop to be as close and rewarding as with the farang friends I have.

Do I feel part of the community.... kind of, I am included in everything the community does when I am there, but this maybe because I am the Farang.... when I first arrived I went to great lengths to ensure that when I was spoken of, I wasn't just called "farang", now most people refer to me as "my name" and not "farang", which is nice, the only time I get refered to as Farang is every other place in Thailand. ( when I say farang I also mean other variations such as "buksida" or "sida").

That's all I can contribute so far.... like I said, not really classed as a long term dweller as yet.

totster

[The Dude]

Each one to their own, Dude. Kahlua and milk?

I am still interested in the long-time bush dwellers and their experiences. I didnt come to Thailand for the type of life you describe, but I can definitely understand the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes White Russian indeed is all I drink. Some people call me duderini

[RamdomChances]

Well I suppose I am a "long term" bush dweller. I live in a small village with the nearest "falang"about 50 km away.

I would say that yes I do have some friends who are as close as "falang" friends, I also have a lot of "acquaintances" and "drinking buddies". My best mate actually lives in BKK and comes home most weekends and yes we have got to the point where we can discuss "deep thoughts, and get to take part of this person's deeper thoughts". It does help that his english "vocablary" is very good although he still has probs stringing a sentance togehter but we usually talk in thai anyway. I'm also quite close to his brother who lives opposite from me and there are loads of people that I often share a drink and a chat with.

I'd like to think that I'm accepetd here and think that I am in the imediate vaccinity where everyone is used to me now. I think its just a case of people becoming familour with you and seeing that you are not really any different to them, this take a long time though speaking thai really does help. I'm a pretty social person and also like a drink and I think this has helped a lot.

How I have actuall changed is very hard to tell really, most people who knew before say that I have a lot more patiance than I used to and I'm a lot more "jai yen"

[chownah]

Where I come from no one understands me. When I left to live in Thailand someone asked me why. I told them I want to live in a place where there is a reason why people don't understand me.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks for your contributions, this is exactly what I was looking for. Hope there are more people out there who feel like contributing.

I guess you can see through my questions that I worry a little bit about the friendship part. One aspect of Thais is that many are VERY loyal in terms of giving and hospitality, and don't expect much in return. This is something I am trying to learn as well, because it is one of the nicest traits I can think of, apart from it being good for your own peace of mind.

But I have yet to come across a Thai person apart from my GF who confides in me the way I am used to confide and be confided with among my friends back home. Maybe I am expecting too much or still doing something wrong despite having spent a lot of time here as well as reading about the culture. Maybe I just need to give it time and go back to drinking ridiculous amounts of whisky again, like I was doing the first year. My vocabulary of slang certainly increased by a few 1000% that way... But my drinking buddies, at the end of the day, were just drinking buddies. Their lives didnt consist of much else.

The language barrier is also actually a bit of a problem with the extended family as they all speak Northern Thai in family situations, and I dont spend enough time with them to learn to understand it properly.

It's different from what I am used to. My family in Sweden will always switch to English when we have foreign guests as a sign of respect and to make them feel welcome and included, and this is more or less the norm. Of course I dont expect my Thai family to speak English, but I reckon they could make an effort to speak Central Thai now and then... it would be nice. I understand enough of their conversation to know they arent gossiping about me in any way, and they are definitely friendly to me without that fake smile you learn to discern in insincere people here after a year or two. They are genuine, normal people. But just not very interested in communicating, it seems. Maybe shy, as my GF says. I dont know.

I guess I should just get cracking on speaking Northern Thai, but it feels slightly irritating that I am able to communicate without much effort in Central Thai already... but do not have much use for it in that situation.

The language certainly helps to be included in Thai society, and I think it is one of the necessities to really get along here, but what are the others?

[RamdomChances]

Meadish, if you talk to them in central thai, what language to they talk back in? I would assume amoungst themselfs that they are just so used to talking in one particular dielect that it seems "unnatural" to change.

Suprisingly here, when we drink together the language does'nt change that often, Ok there is some slang but not much. It may be because drinking usually takes place in peoples houses rather than bars (as there are'nt any). The shop doubles as the local bar with sometimes people coming to drink there which has helped me meet a lot more people. Living in "central thailand" helps as well as I only have to learn one dielect, you have to remember that I have actually been living with the family for a long time now (the whole village is virtually all related by the way) and I often work alongside thais so mabye the combination helps.

I probably have one or two people I would say are that close with a few more that I would be comfortble just picking a bottle up and gowing to visit (this actually took me a long time as I'm used to phoning/aranging in advance here you just turn up, no one cares and they dont expect you to either (which can be a pain). Still the people who I dont react with on a regular basis tend to treat me as a bit of an outsider, but in most situations there are a few people I know well around so this helps loosen things up.

[meadish_sweetball]

Meadish, if you talk to them in central thai, what language to they talk back in? I would assume amoungst themselfs that they are just so used to talking in one particular dielect that it seems "unnatural" to change.

Suprisingly here, when we drink together the language does'nt change that often, Ok there is some slang but not much. It may be because drinking usually takes place in peoples houses rather than bars (as there are'nt any). The shop doubles as the local bar with sometimes people coming to drink there which has helped me meet a lot more people. Living in "central thailand" helps as well as I only have to learn one dielect, you have to remember that I have actually been living with the family for a long time now (the whole village is virtually all related by the way) and I often work alongside thais so mabye the combination helps.

I probably have one or two people I would say are that close with a few more that I would be comfortble just picking a bottle up and gowing to visit (this actually took me a long time as I'm used to phoning/aranging in advance here you just turn up, no one cares and they dont expect you to either (which can be a pain). Still the people who I dont react with on a regular basis tend to treat me as a bit of an outsider, but in most situations there are a few people I know well around so this helps loosen things up.

Well, 'mae' speaks to me in Northern Thai and I speak to her in Central Thai, except for the expressions I already know in Northern Thai.

She has lived all her life in Chiang Mai and never had a regular job, just helped out with funerals, weddings, any social functions. Her sister does speak Central Thai with me on occasion, which is very nice, and why I like hanging out at their place.

GF's younger siblings and cousins though, all speak Northern Thai. Constantly. You would think as the new generation they'd be more inclined and used to speaking Central Thai, but apparently not so. We'll see what happens with time, I guess.

[Boatabike]

Well I suppose I am a "long term" bush dweller. I live in a small village with the nearest "falang"about 50 km away.

I would say that yes I do have some friends who are as close as "falang" friends, I also have a lot of "acquaintances" and "drinking buddies". My best mate actually lives in BKK and comes home most weekends and yes we have got to the point where we can discuss "deep thoughts, and get to take part of this person's deeper thoughts". It does help that his english "vocablary" is very good although he still has probs stringing a sentance togehter but we usually talk in thai anyway. I'm also quite close to his brother who lives opposite from me and there are loads of people that I often share a drink and a chat with.

I'd like to think that I'm accepetd here and think that I am in the imediate vaccinity where everyone is used to me now. I think its just a case of people becoming familour with you and seeing that you are not really any different to them, this take a long time though speaking thai really does help. I'm a pretty social person and also like a drink and I think this has helped a lot.

How I have actuall changed is very hard to tell really, most people who knew before say that I have a lot more patiance than I used to and I'm a lot more "jai yen"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like this answer; it is attempting to honestly express something that is difficult to say here in LOS.

I have interacted in kan. for the last 15 years. I am now a young 39. I would say in whole I have spent 40% of my adult life here in Kan. I have known young people grow up here and who now have families of there own. I am integrated into this town at quite a deep level, from my view point that is. I do not how ever have any Thai friends that I would class as close as my selection of good friends back in the UK. Maybe I am just lucky in having very good friends back in Uk I don't know. I do know however that I never, ever have to consider the fact that my Uk friends would lie to me or deceive me in any way. In other words I trust them 100% with my friendship, it is just not an issue! I have some good friends here in Thailand that I value very highly, but I can't say I trust them that 100% on an emotionally bonded level. I am not married here nor do I have a Thai girlfriend, as finding the 'this one is different' is quite tricky on a very low income! Now I am a rich teacher of course that will all change ha bloody ha. But back to the point, I guess it all depends on the level of friendship you consider makes a good friend. I value the friends I have here but no, I cannot compare here and back home, it falls far short. But I do prefer living here!

Meadish this is a good topic, well posted.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Boatabike

[bina]

u know meadish, i posted a thread a few days ago about life/death how do thai poeple that u know see it... got no answers....

i speak with my friend every day and i pester him with " why why" when i think most thais are 'how, how'

now, i am a female, though very analytical brain oriented, not heart oriented, but i do have very close girl friends and even though i have lived in israel for 22 yrs gave birth etc, my closest friends are anglo.... same language, similar cultural back grounds and expectations of what friends are for.

sompong says that thai men keep everything inside: they dont even discuss work or family problems for the most part with each other; more over, friends are defined as u all know by age/hierarchy etc i.e.

his 'friends' are his age; anyone older is like a big brother or uncle and there fore he will not discuss certain things with them but will ask for advice and expects that they take care of him accordingly as a younger brother

there are even special thai words that differentiate between the types of friend: will look for them later, ok? ... again, sompong did 'blood brother' ceremonies with several men and these guys help each other with money, etc... NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... other guys are not friends, but same age as him but drinking buddies etc, he would never ask help from them, or 'take care' of them the same way ....

family ties are stronger then friendship ties

women are not friends but older/younger sister types or wife/girlfriend... there is no inbetween (maybe in more sophisticated areas this is different but i would imagine not friendship between the sexes as americans for instance have; also israelis have a bit of problem with this depending on the ethnic backgrounds)

these guys that i know do not sit around and psychoanalyse themselves or their surroundings, they've lived with each other for three years u would think they would discuss things deeply, but they dont, but when someone is ill, or drunk or 'jai mai dee', sia jai , whatever, their 'friends' are the ones who take care of them etc.... when i've asked for 'deeper' answers, i just get the same response: thai men keep everything inside ... u just dont see thai people sit around and say: 'i think we have some issues to discuss' like my american friends

and so, i'm asking again, now is your chance, how do your thai male/female friends/lovers REALLY see death/dying etc etc...their personal attitudes, not the 'thai buddhist bla bla stuff'

with everyone here piecing together cluse as to feelings etc i will gain insight in to one or two people (men in this case)...

[terdsak_12]

Well dude, I live in a farang bldg with rich farangs and their nose-in-the-air thai ladies. The pool and rec areas are great. The place is tip top luxury. The security dudes say kop everytime you enter and leave the bldg. This is enuf thai culture for me thanx

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds about right with me!!!!

[mpdkorat]

Thanks for your contributions, this is exactly what I was looking for. Hope there are more people out there who feel like contributing.

I guess you can see through my questions that I worry a little bit about the friendship part. One aspect of Thais is that many are VERY loyal in terms of giving and hospitality, and don't expect much in return. This is something I am trying to learn as well, because it is one of the nicest traits I can think of, apart from it being good for your own peace of mind.

The language certainly helps to be included in Thai society, and I think it is one of the necessities to really get along here, but what are the others?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The best way to stay in Thailand and limit the hassles you can encounter from time to time is to keep a fairly low profile. No problem having Thai friends in the village but keep them a little at arms length. If you allow them to get to close to you there will be problems getting rid of them, and they could become a nuisance. Do not forget they are fairly simple people that have very little.

Yes learning the language will open up many doors and make life a lot more interesting and I would advice you to do it. But understanding Thai is a double edged sword. You will hear the unpleasant comments and understand them as well.

BTW I moved back to the city after 4.5 years in the boonies. But thats me.

[girlx]

bina my (thai) boyfriend has absolutely no opinion on death and dying as far as i can make out. he is scared to talk about it in fact- not sure if that's because he fears it or because he is superstitious about it (as buddhists are with many things)... whenever i have asked him he immediately changes subject- all i know is he does seem to believe in reincarnation, and karma, and he thinks that because he is not so well off in this life he should be fine in the next.

it's all i can do to ever get him to express an opinion on anything- i agree that it is difficult to have analytical conversations with them. i have lots of them, but they are one-sided.

[girlx]

p.s. the no friendship between the sexes thing really bothers me here. i do not historically "click" with girls at all... i have only had one or two good female friends in my life... ALL of my really good friends in my life have been male. can't do that here though.

[meadish_sweetball]

p.s. the no friendship between the sexes thing really bothers me here. i do not historically "click" with girls at all... i have only had one or two good female friends in my life... ALL of my really good friends in my life have been male. can't do that here though.

You can't, unless the guy is already taken and you hang out with him and his girlfriend/wife at the same time... or find farang male friends.

mpdkorat, thanks for your input too. I already speak Central Thai to the degree that I never need to use English in everyday situations, am fully understood 90 percent of the time, and I can read and write it, albeit still not very quickly, and my spelling leaves a lot to be desired.

Still, many doors remain to be opened it seems - or I am just looking in all the wrong places.

[Totster]

Yes learning the language will open up many doors and make life a lot more interesting and I would advice you to do it. But understanding Thai is a double edged sword. You will hear the unpleasant comments and understand them as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting point... I find myself wondering whether I would like to know exactly what people are saying, even the unpleasant stuff.....

Still thinking about the pros and cons on that one.... although I wouldn't stop learning Thai because of this...

totster

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes learning the language will open up many doors and make life a lot more interesting and I would advice you to do it. But understanding Thai is a double edged sword. You will hear the unpleasant comments and understand them as well.

Very interesting point... I find myself wondering whether I would like to know exactly what people are saying, even the unpleasant stuff.....

Still thinking about the pros and cons on that one.... although I wouldn't stop learning Thai because of this...

totster

Surprisingly enough I have found most comments gossiped behind my back are either neutral or positive.

The largest kick I got is about a year ago, when I passed by two girls in the street and hear one saying to the other in Thai: "He's really handsome." The other girl's reply: "Is sex all you think about??!?"

(And by the way, I still don't understand all the comments behind my back - when people gossip they instinctively lower their voices or speak more obscurely than normal, so the old feeling of hearing '"farang" followed by some undecodable murmur is still there...)

[Nignoy]

Each one to their own, Dude. Kahlua and milk?

I am still interested in the long-time bush dwellers and their experiences. I didnt come to Thailand for the type of life you describe, but I can definitely understand the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes White Russian indeed is all I drink. Some people call me duderini

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Duderini is that not a form of masturbator or personal abuser, Nignoy