Red-Shirt Leaders To Spell Out Conditions In Joining Peace Process

[Tod Daniels]

I see the poster known as 'earthpig' is still exhibiting his lack of understanding in the current thai political situation and still throwing around his ‘blanket amnesty’ term.

Abhisit already told the rank and file, run of the mill protestors, go home BEFORE a crack down and nothing will happen to you. In fact the government offered to PAY for them to take a bus back to Nakhon Nowhere and give them a paper allowing them to get another thai I/D card if theirs was still held hostage by the red-rabble in lieu of their wages for protesting. Can’t really find fault in that anyway you spin it. Although the UDD leaders immediately said the government was 'buying off' the protestors, as opposed to them 'paying them to protest', a true pot/kettle situation if there was one. Abhisit also said for those protestors who’ve got arrest warrants out against them, fight your battle in court, DON’T look to the government to give you a free pass.

Unless I am greatly mistaken; currently the UDD holds ZERO seats in the Lower House; those M/P’s which share the UDD ideology are Puea Thai Party members, and to concur with another protestor for the most part those M/P's have been really luke warm in their vocal support of the protests.

It’s nothing more than more stall tactics by the red-rabble leaders. I guess the old adage of too many cooks in the kitchen, with too many different recipes on the way forward is true.

Is Thaksin's mobile phone on "call back service" or do the red leaders have no money left on their mobiles for an overseas call?

Let's see if I got the time line correct. ..

Press conference scheduled LAST NITE @ 6:00PM; CANCELED

New one tentatively scheduled later in the night; CANCELED

Red Shirts Might Announce Decision on Peace Plan this Morning; CANCELED

UDD asks for time to form its reconciliation directions

And now the latest breaking not-news;

Red leaders to resume road map talks at 3 pm

Abhisit has made it abundantly clear there is no room for a 20 page point by counterpoint rebuttal to his 'road map'. The redz either buy into it or they don't. Buy into it, Lower House dissolution and elections go ahead as he's outlined; don't buy into it, and the redz can sit there at Rachaprasong until the end of 2011 when the Demz REAL term is up, or until the soldiers are actually called upon to rout 'em out.

The red leadership will face the consequences of their actions (or in this case their inability to take action) in regards to loss of life and casualties if/when that situation comes about.

Last thing I heard on red-radio is now the reds want to make their own 'road map' to counter Abhisit’s. If whack-job Weng has anything to say in it we're gonna need a skilled cartographer to even translate it. Perhaps a nice PowerPoint presentation would work.

Remember, even choosing NOT to choose is a choice.

This just goes to show how disparate the red ideology is and how fragmented the red leaderships is. No one is the 'clear leader', and it would appear there are more 'core leaders' than ‘sheep-like’ followers. Everyone wants a say in the way forward, as it probably would look good on a CV to say you were ‘instrumental’ in brokering the peace.

Sadly no one has a definite plan just how to take that first step forward, so they are adopting a tried and true thai tradition of sitting on their hands doing nothing but offering lip service and stalling for time. Great move…

The latest quote by Seh Daeng shows how much he wants to push this to a violent confrontation (notice how he said this AFTER he alluded to speaking to his 'boss'; Thaksin). Now there will be '2nd generation red rabble leaders', <deleted> is that? That guy is a whack job who needs to be apprehended as soon as possible.

Edited May 10, 2010 by tod-daniels

[earthpig]

The red movement is a rabidly VIOLENT movement.

hilarious propaganda.

rabidly violent were the likes of the khmer rouge, the shining path, the nazis, the mongols and on and on.

not the old ladies eating somtam and dancing to issan tunes at ratchaprasong.

"violent" are those who try to foment the authorities to move on the reds. fortunately, the authorities have proven for too humane to heed such advice.

[jdinasia]

Discuss.

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

Thaksin should be sought by an international arrest warrant now. It is crystal clear of who is behind the terror and destruction. Nero Thaksin is now the biggest threat to SE-Asia and not only to Thailand.

This makes it clear that the red shirt leaders have zero control over Sae Daeng and that only Thaksin does. The only question that remains after that is does Sae Daeng speak for Arisaman and the rest?

Sae Daeng is a likely candidate for a court martial and a bullet, or a trial and a needle. Arisaman is out on bail and committing new crimes. He is a candidate for a long stay at the BKK Hilton if not more. They have little to lose.

Time for them to be arrested NOW.

[earthpig]

You state that violence is a red option.

I have never counseled violence by either side; quite the contrary i have repeatedly expressed admiration for the relative forebearance shown by all sides in this tragic matter.

your lie is indicative of the bankruptcy of your arguments, and may well show the true character of those who urge the government to act violently on the basis of false allegations agaisnt the reds.

[Robby nz]

a general amnesty as applicabable to abhisit and his people as it is to the reds is essential.

without it, the opposition leadership will be rounded up and the elections will be a farce. no fair election can occur in an enviroment in which the opposition is being arrested.

moreover, attempts to round up red leaders may foment violence against the government, creating an opportunity--or indeed even the necessity--for the government to call off the elections.

surely abhisit knows all this well enough. if he is sincere in his peace overtures, he will give blanket amnesty.

on the other hand, he may not be sincere and it is at least theoretically possible that his peace overtures area a ploy to crack down.

after all the missed deadlines and threats, the moment of truth may have arrived. it finally looks this is the week we find out whether the resolution to thailand's social ills is political, or other.

abhisit has to date shown wisdom enough. lets hope it doesnt fail him now.

1/ Why would the Govt and the PM need amnesty? You will probably say because of the 10th April but that can only be attributed to the reds who went looking for trouble and got it.

Unfortunatly people had to die and be injured because of the reds trouble making, they had been warned enough that they would be stopped and still they continued.

2/ You are the first to suggest the opposition leaders would be rounded uo, where do you get that info, from the red stage?

3/ He cant give amnasty to the red leaders and those who have chosen to break the law and take lives, it is common sense that crims should be brought to justice. what sort of message would that send to anyone else who wanted to break the law, especially in such a blatent manner.

4/ He needs no ploy to crack down he has every right as the PM to order troops in to go get them yet has shown patience and compassion by giving them a chance to get out without blood, a chance they now have rejected.

5/ Missed deadlines? the reds said they would give an answer today then leave today, Arisman said he would give himself up on 1st April, etc etc

6/ At last something I can agree with

[shawndoc]

NATION: Seh Daeng: ive talked 2 Thaksin. Rally will go on w/ "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

NATION: Seh Daeng to Anupong: Don't listen to Abhsit otherwise you may have no where to live (in Thailand).

So for those saying that Thanksin was just a red shirt, and not the force behind the rally, how do you explain Seh Daeng claiming to be in touch with Thaksin and following his orders (for those that don't trust the Nation, the WSJ also reported a similar claim by Deh Daeng several days ago.

We now have Thaksin putting the most violent/hateful part of the red shirt movement in charge and Seh Daeng already making veiled death threats against Anupong.

Doesn't look good.

[lazurus]

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

I guess the militant members of the movement aren't eager to go to prison. The main leaders are ready to leave they have lots to lose by staying on. They could easily get themselves elected in November and get in on the gravy train of Thai politics. The second tier leadership seems less than happy to take the fall for all the bad stuff they've done. The real reds and the fake reds seem to have a serious problem, by setting a date for the end of the protest the top leaders will reveal that they have lost control. Nice to see them sniping at each other for a change.

[Tod Daniels]

hilarious propaganda.

not the old ladies eating somtam and dancing to issan tunes at ratchaprasong.

'earthpig', rather than watch the 5 second news footage of the "old ladies dancing to thai music thru a crap sound system and eating somtam" as you so eloquently put it.

Might I suggest (if you understand thai; which I suspect given your take on all things thai, you don't) go ahead and tune into Red-Rachaprasong-Radio. That's located at 106.8 on your FM dial.

NEWS FLASH: It ain't frickin' ‘easy listening’ nor does it appear to preach the way to peace is thru love, free sex and flower power.

In fact it's some of the most coarsely spoken, demeaning, hate filled, violence inciting rhetoric you'd ever care to listen to.

Well that's when the red leaders actually come out of their air con trailer to speak to the red-rabble sweltering on the pavement under the marginal shade cloth, instead of the b/s music they play; which sounds remarkably like a person slowly strangling a cat with a shoe lace.

I totally concur with jdinasia, the longer the radical wing-nut Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol better known as; Seh Daeng is allowed to roam the Rama 6 red-rabble tree fort with impunity, the closer this entire things comes to a violent confrontation. And that is sad for NOT the red leaders but the rank and file protestors who will be caught in the middle.

Edited May 10, 2010 by tod-daniels

[earthpig]

1/ Why would the Govt and the PM need amnesty? You will probably say because of the 10th April but that can only be attributed to the reds who went looking for trouble and got it.

Unfortunatly people had to die and be injured because of the reds trouble making, they had been warned enough that they would be stopped and still they continued.

The reason the gov and PM, as well as the red leaders, should also get amnesty is because the point of the amnesty is to put recent events behind thailand and move on to the balllot box, which is the only way that these sad matters will find resolution.

i make no claim to knowing who was behind the 10 April violence or any of the other sad violent acts. The truth should absolutely be investigated by an independant truth commission and the results made fully public. In a different Thailand, those responsible should be held accountable legally. But in this thailand in which government legitimacy is severly questioned by a significant and highly energized portion of the population, solving the bigger issue must be the priority.

and that priority are getting new and fair elections ASAP, before the kettle boils over. in an enviorment in which a significant part of the population feels that the government lacks legitiamcy, justice meeted out to red leaders will not be seen as justice but as revenge, with all the attendent consequence.

that's the key reason why the first priority must be restoring political legitimacy to the government in the eyes of all thais.

[Insight]

I'm not hinting at a conspiracy here - the photos of Thaksin and Seh Daeng in Dubai are enough evidence for me and it's great the way he's implicating Thaksin as the true thug he really is - but why does Seh Daeng make such an effort to sound like some B-Movie Villain? It's amazing it wins support of anybody over the age of 12...

[lazurus]

Seh Daeng: Thaksin Appoints New Red Shirt Leaders

Dismissed army general General Kattiya Sawasdipol now claims that Thaksin Shinawatra has appointed three new red shirt leaders namely Arisman Pongruengrong, Suporn Attawong or Rambo Esarn, and Udon Thani leader Kwanchai Praipana.

Yikes, there has been a Red coup!

[jdinasia]

You state that violence is a red option.

I have never counseled violence by either side; quite the contrary i have repeatedly expressed admiration for the relative forebearance shown by all sides in this tragic matter.

your lie is indicative of the bankruptcy of your arguments, and may well show the true character of those who urge the government to act violently on the basis of false allegations agaisnt the reds.

Hmmm looks like it is time to use the ignore function again! Other than your improper use of "foment" in the following quote. You state that upholding the law may result in violence against the government.

The rest of that post was shot through with errors as well (such as equating the red shirt leadership with the PTP opposition).

moreover, attempts to round up red leaders may foment violence against the government, creating an opportunity--or indeed even the necessity--for the government to call off the elections.

Buh bye --- no more time for people that are red propogandists.

[Robby nz]

THE NATION: (1pm): Seh Daeng said all redshirts leaders except Jatuporn didn't want to continue fighting. "They're out of their minds." #NNA

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to Anupong: Don't listen to Abhsit otherwise you may have no where to live (in Thailand).

THE NATION: Seh Daeng: Veera, Weng, Nuttawut and Wisa went to negotiate at the 11th Infantry and agreed to put 'hard-core' reds in jails. -NNA

There we have it from the horses (or should that be asses) mouth.

The occupation will go on regardless till Sae deang is killed, I guess now he has very little to lose except his life.

[earthpig]

'earthpig', rather than watch the 5 second news footage of the "old ladies dancing to thai music thru a crap sound system and eating somtam" as you so eloquently put it.

for the record, my impressions of the reds do not come from the media. that that is a waste of time is surely evident to all those who do, indeed, understand the language.

rather, it comes from eating somtam and dancing to issan music with the above referenced old ladies. (and occasionally with their daughters, but never mind...)

if you can pull yourself away from your television and radio and computer, give it a go, tod.

you might find enlightement.

and by the way crap sounds systems have their charm, pariticularly when the singing is off key.

[Jingthing]

OK, so what about this scenario. The reds split. The relatively more moderate leaders accept the roadmap. The hard core radical Thaksin/Seh Daeng led insurgents stay to continue their occupation Bangkok. Then can't the government go in against the more radical faction? In such a scenario, it isn't the reds anymore. Its the TWO reds.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

'earthpig', rather than watch the 5 second news footage of the "old ladies dancing to thai music thru a crap sound system and eating somtam" as you so eloquently put it.

for the record, my impressions of the reds do not come from the media. that that is a waste of time is surely evident to all those who do, indeed, understand the language.

rather, it comes from eating somtam and dancing to issan music with the above referenced old ladies. (and occasionally with their daughters, but never mind...)

if you can pull yourself away from your television and radio and computer, give it a go, tod.

you might find enlightement.

and by the way crap sounds systems have their charm, pariticularly when the singing is off key.

And since you deny the violence of the reds, the violence called for by the red shirt leaders from the red shirt stages and the terrorism of the redshirt's like Sae Daeng and Arisaman ---- it is time for you to go in the ignore list!

[Robby nz]

Seh Daeng: Thaksin Appoints New Red Shirt Leaders

Dismissed army general General Kattiya Sawasdipol now claims that Thaksin Shinawatra has appointed three new red shirt leaders namely Arisman Pongruengrong, Suporn Attawong or Rambo Esarn, and Udon Thani leader Kwanchai Praipana.

Yikes, there has been a Red coup!

Oh well at least we know 2 of them have shown they are going to run as soon as there looks like any danger.

[lazurus]

Seh Daeng: Thaksin Appoints New Red Shirt Leaders

Dismissed army general General Kattiya Sawasdipol now claims that Thaksin Shinawatra has appointed three new red shirt leaders namely Arisman Pongruengrong, Suporn Attawong or Rambo Esarn, and Udon Thani leader Kwanchai Praipana.

Yikes, there has been a Red coup!

Oh well at least we know 2 of them have shown they are going to run as soon as there looks like any danger.

I think when he got that piece of news the PM must have thought "sum num na"

[earthpig]

You state that upholding the law may result in violence against the government.

It should be obvious even to JD that any attempt by the goverment to move on ratchaprasong to clear the crowds and capture the red leaders might result in violence. Any number of government figures have so commented, and innumerable journalists and posters here have also so predicted.

To make that observation is hardly the same thing as counseling violence by reds!

[jdinasia]

THE NATION: (1pm): Seh Daeng said all redshirts leaders except Jatuporn didn't want to continue fighting. "They're out of their minds." #NNA

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to Anupong: Don't listen to Abhsit otherwise you may have no where to live (in Thailand).

THE NATION: Seh Daeng: Veera, Weng, Nuttawut and Wisa went to negotiate at the 11th Infantry and agreed to put 'hard-core' reds in jails. -NNA

There we have it from the horses (or should that be asses) mouth.

The occupation will go on regardless till Sae deang is killed, I guess now he has very little to lose except his life.

He and Arisaman and a few others have very little to lose. Their crimes for their violence against Thai people and the Thai country has earned them the highest penalty.

It is highly likely that there is enough evidence against others amongst the red leadership to earn them a one-way trip into the Thai penal system.

Between Methee and others that have been giving the governent information AND what the government has gotten from western intelligence agencies AND what has been found by the DSI when they have conducted searches it is a zero sum game for the reds like Sae Daeng and many others unless they get Thaksin back (and that just isn't going to happen ... ever)

[earthpig]

And since you deny the violence of the reds, the violence called for by the red shirt leaders from the red shirt stages and the terrorism of the redshirt's like Sae Daeng and Arisaman ---- it is time for you to go in the ignore list!

Individuals on both sides of the line died on April 10.

It is reasonable to assume that the reds who died did not shoot themselves.

Even on the fringes of MLK's nonviolent movement violence occured, with deaths among both blacks and whites. That some will not heed the message of nonviolence should not detract from the vast majority who do.

[jdinasia]

Time for the red leaders, in light of Sae Daeng's announcement, to cancel the rally IMMEDIATELY and send people home. Then turn themselves in to the authorities. They will be safer in CRES custody than if they are out on the streets.

[lazurus]

And since you deny the violence of the reds, the violence called for by the red shirt leaders from the red shirt stages and the terrorism of the redshirt's like Sae Daeng and Arisaman ---- it is time for you to go in the ignore list!

Individuals on both sides of the line died on April 10.

It is reasonable to assume that the reds who died did not shoot themselves.

Even on the fringes of MLK's nonviolent movement violence occured, with deaths among both blacks and whites. That some will not heed the message of nonviolence should not detract from the vast majority who do.

It is also reasonable to assume that not all the fatalities were caused by bullets.

[jdinasia]

THE NATION: (1pm): Seh Daeng said all redshirts leaders except Jatuporn didn't want to continue fighting. "They're out of their minds." #NNA

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to Anupong: Don't listen to Abhsit otherwise you may have no where to live (in Thailand).

THE NATION: Seh Daeng: Veera, Weng, Nuttawut and Wisa went to negotiate at the 11th Infantry and agreed to put 'hard-core' reds in jails. -NNA

There we have it from the horses (or should that be asses) mouth.

The occupation will go on regardless till Sae deang is killed, I guess now he has very little to lose except his life.

He and Arisaman and a few others have very little to lose. Their crimes for their violence against Thai people and the Thai country has earned them the highest penalty.

It is highly likely that there is enough evidence against others amongst the red leadership to earn them a one-way trip into the Thai penal system.

Between Methee and others that have been giving the governent information AND what the government has gotten from western intelligence agencies AND what has been found by the DSI when they have conducted searches it is a zero sum game for the reds like Sae Daeng and many others unless they get Thaksin

[TheOldWolf]

Eartpig: I have been reading you for quit a while now and can only draw two conclusions. Either you have so thick red glasses that you are not able to see anything else or you are paid to write red propaganda here.

[Jimi007]

Seh Daeng: Thaksin Appoints New Red Shirt Leaders

Dismissed army general General Kattiya Sawasdipol now claims that Thaksin Shinawatra has appointed three new red shirt leaders namely Arisman Pongruengrong, Suporn Attawong or Rambo Esarn, and Udon Thani leader Kwanchai Praipana.

Yikes, there has been a Red coup!

Got a bit of a laugh out of me on that one! But as I have thought and said all along this whole "protest" is about Thaksin, and has very little if anything to do with democracy!

[earthpig]

Eartpig: I have been reading you for quit a while now and can only draw two conclusions. Either you have so thick red glasses that you are not able to see anything else or you are paid to write red propaganda here.

Red propagandist?

Was i a red propagandist when i blogged that i admired abhisit for his wisdom in how he has handled the situation so far? was i a red propagandist for calling for a resolution to this sad affair thru the ballot box?

If you want to call me a red propagandist for exposing those here who falsely accuse reds with the purpose of justifying violence against them then so be it. but as far as im concerned, my sympathies lie with thais on both sides of a very difficult divide.

Many of you anti red bloggers are simply prejudiced against relatively unsophisticed farmers you consider your inferiors. one english bigot the other day actually referred on this side to the reds here as "oafs".

Personally, i think it is shameful that people who live as guests in a country to take sides and exhibit their (mostly) european elitist prejudices like these anti red bloggers do.

[Jimi007]

"Somchai claims Thaksin supports peace plan

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat claimed Monday that his brother-in-law, former PM Thaksin Shinawatra supported the peace plan offered by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He said he and Thaksin would like the reconciliation process to start."

That's not what Seh Daeng just said a while ago. Maybe Seh Daeng has his own agenda? Nah, he wants democracy!

[TheOldWolf]

Eartpig: I have been reading you for quit a while now and can only draw two conclusions. Either you have so thick red glasses that you are not able to see anything else or you are paid to write red propaganda here.

Red propagandist?

Was i a red propagandist when i blogged that i admired abhisit for his wisdom in how he has handled the situation so far? was i a red propagandist for calling for a resolution to this sad affair thru the ballot box?

If you want to call me a red propagandist for exposing those here who falsely accuse reds with the purpose of justifying violence against them then so be it. but as far as im concerned, my sympathies lie with thais on both sides of a very difficult divide.

Many of you anti red bloggers are simply prejudiced against relatively unsophisticed farmers you consider your inferiors. one english bigot the other day actually referred on this side to the reds here as "oafs".

Personally, i think it is shameful that people who live as guests in a country to take sides and exhibit their (mostly) european elitist prejudices like these anti red bloggers do.

Then why do you sounds exactly like you were dressed up as a red leader, defending everything the reds have done, blame everything on the goverment

[Robby nz]

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

But will he let them go....... alive?

If they do want to leave they will surely want to try to co-operate with authorities to try to reduce or minamise any 'time' they may get and that will mean spilling the beans, kao dom and anything else they know.

At least one of them has already been locked up and probably wont want the experience again.

Give us amnesty and we will give you everything you need to hang the others.