Bangkok: Policeman Killed, 7 Policemen, 2 Civilians Injured In Double Attacks

[plachon]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

Glad to see poverty decreased under Abhisit then.

What about the rice farmers, to whom he promised 10,000 Baht per kilo rice under the "insurance" scheme? And now he's only paying them 6,100 to 6,200? What's the purpose of the rice insurance scheme then if you don't keep the promises?

Incorrect again. You seem to have a very poor grasp of these things Che,so I suggest you stick to things you understand a little bit better. Here,let me help you a bit.

1. Poverty almost certainly has decreased under Abhisit's watch (but will have to wait a bit longer for the stats to emerge), BUT, there is a good chance now that since the Reds protest started in mid-March and tourists and investors have been scared away, while the shopping hub of the city has been paralysed, there may be a rise in unemployment and downturn in the economy. Purely thanks to the Reds.

2. The rice price insurance scheme is being honoured - I saw it in operation with my own eyes about 2 weeks ago in an Isaan village and have a sheet of paper in front of me at this moment, showing the market prices at any given week between 16 Feb and 25 April. For example, on 16-28 Feb the guaranteed price for plain white rice (naa bee) was 10,000 B, while the market price was 9,886 B; glutinous rice 9,500 B, while the market price was 11,207 B; and pathum thani strain rice 11,500 B, while the market price was 11,824 B. The govt. will pay farmers the difference between the market price and the guaranteed price depending on when they sell the rice, but the farmers must be registered with the scheme to benefit. Their money is paid through the Bank for Agriculture and Cooperatives and they confirmed they are receiving it.

However, the farmers might sell rice that is not yet dried out or is of poor quality, in which case they will get a lower price than the market median. The govt cannot control this as they are not the buyer, but sino-Thai rice mill owners who are often unscupulous. They are often allied to or part of political networks, who in the case of Isaan, happen often to be part of the Red movement and support Thaksin, although many are also allied to Bhumjaithai and the Newin network too. The point is, it is these people who may rip off the farmers, not the govt, which so far has been pretty good at honouring its promises to help farmers through the price guarantee scheme.

Do you get the idea now Che? If you are angry about the rice prices being 6,100 Baht in your part of Thailand, then I would take it up with the private buyers or the poor bargaining skills of the farmers, because they refuse to join cooperatives and bargain crop prices jointly (an Isaan cultural trait I'm afraid), not the govt. The govt is honouring the guarantee system it set up.

[eastlight]

Sadly looks like one faction or another does not want the current stand off to end and is looking for more blood.

Look in direction of Sae Daeng and his "army" of thugs and you'll probably find who is behind these new killings.

I have to agree. All those weapons on hand, with CRES checkpoints at every exit (promising to confiscate all weapons and arrest carriers). What's a hot-headed loose-cannon indicted general to do? He's angry about a lot of things, not least because his barricades (which he directed the construction of for weeks) were never used, and will have to be taken down. He's angry because top brass have finally found their brass balls and are doing what they should have done months ago; bust Sae Daeng for treason. At least Seh Daeng doesn't have to worry about losing his pay and pension, as his good buddy Thaksin will shower him in riches.

Message to security forces: keep those cameras rolling. Don't let down your guard until the Red infection is far down the road, and all's cleaned up. Also: beware of booby traps left behind.

EDIT: if security forces are all around, as reported, ....and a drive by bomber/shooter goes zipping by - SHOOT THE FUKER!!!! Pull that weapon out, aim it, and POW! Murderer is dead. Do Thai brass teach their people how to handle a gun ?!? Just as Thai footballers need foreign coaches, so too, Thai security forces need foreigners to teach them how to shoot.

My office is right behind Central Chilom. To get there I must walk thru the Red encampment.

I can tell you for a FACT.. There are NO CRES Checkpoints anywhere around Chitlom.. and there have NEVER been any.

I have NEVER seen any government security force checking ANYTHING or stopping ANYONE from entering or leaving the area.

If anyone believes these Checkpoints actually exist, then they haven't been down there to see for themselves.

If the Government was serious about stopping this, then they MUST disband the Corrupt police and get some serious people that believe in Law & Order, and the primacy of the government, not the Mob!

CS

A friend of mine was in the vicinity of the protesters recently and identified the source of the water used for portable toilets and showers - large pipes emerging from a police station! Aren't these 'officers' supposed to be upholding law and order not encouraging the blockade of the capital?

[Old Man River]

But not all red shirts are on the same page. Read the Sunday Bangkok Post and you will see that Seh Dang is definately the terrorist element. Not all agree with him, which is good to see. Seh Dang is a loose canyon that flipped and those that are associated with him will have to suffer the consequences. Hopefully, they can subdue him so the peace process can continue before he commits any more acts of terrorism.

The more I observe the stalling tactics used by the Reds, the more it looks like it's about Seh Daeng and Kwanchai Praipana - two of the hottest headed loose cannons within the group of Red hot heads. It's all but assured they're pleading for amnesty to be included (at least among their peers). Otherwise they get tossed to mercy of the courts, and those two, in particular, won't fare well in a courtroom where they can't swagger, shout, and bully others around - as they've been doing with their Red underlings for weeks.

Lets not forget the entire time Thaksin was PM that the asian and global markets were booming

.....and T came in right after PM Chuan had quietly overseen responsible economic policies, trying to clean up the messes of 1997 financial meltdown. T rode that wave, but continued to furiously try and line his pockets using every power-play advantage he could think up - from avoiding taxes, to hiding money overseas, to hiding money in secret servants' accounts, to selling stocks to his family for pennies - thinking he was being so clever, yet actually endangering his children. T allegedly also used lottery proceeds (which he oversaw) to funnel to pu yai ban who got him a lot of votes, but now I'm straying from the subject. Whewww, once a person gets on to listing the trespasses of T and his family, the list goes on an on. Someday someone will make a film of his adult life, and it will be categorized as 'fictional comedy' because future generations won't believe the myriad crazy schemes the man tried - while duping Thailand and its people.

I would add that Arismon belongs near the top of the list of loose cannons. Also, many don't believe Seh Daeng was the brains behind the black shirts, although he may ultimately take the sole fall for it as he has been the most public.

[jdinasia]

Plachon --- great post. I know squat about farming and that helped!

Jerry --- I still don't buy it. (and as a reminder for the 34th time --- Thailand isn't France)

The reds ARE violent. I assume you can't understand spoken Thai because if you could you would know the violence threatened AND acted upon by the red leaders (not just the rank and file!)

[eggomaniac]

I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

<< Post #431

okay YIKES .. Is it for purley noble and brave reasons, then, you let the 'crazy redshirts' see who you are? your avatar .......................................................yikes

---------------------------

The reds and yellows are just 2 gangs of pigs trying to control of seats of corruption.

70 to 80% of Thais, who are not red OR yellow, know that, but 90% of farangs seem to 'have' to choose a side. The only grey lining is they are destroying the trough. < This is when a gang land truce will be made, nothing to do democracy, only it will 'sold' that way. It has happened many times before in Thailand's history, whereby the factions 'meet' and divide up the pie.

---

I was talking to a couple, good people, street level supporters of one of the gangs. They said they wanted fair elections, the end to corruption, and stable government. I'm color blind, so can you tell me what color the shirt was? NO you can't. 95% of Thais, well intentioned, hard working, lovers of life; want those things.

-------

Same conversation of a red or yellow leader; their reply 'get out of my country'

Don't trust ANYONE who owns private jets! Don't trust anyone over 30 million.

message to ALL farangs Get NEUTRAL.

If you guess right, you don't get a Cabinet Post; if you guess wrong you might want to hide your identity!

Edited May 9, 2010 by eggomaniac

[granuaile]

okay YIKES .. Is it for purley noble and brave reasons, then, you let the 'crazy redshirts' see who you are? your avatar .......................................................yikes

Nothing nobl at all about it, I'm just not afraid of redshirt thugs. They by contrast have to live here. Myself, I swore sometime back in this if redshirt thugs tried to search my belongings anywhere I'll flip them the bird and spray them with mace...

Neutrality became a non-option when the reds began their campaign of terrorism. Now I am decidedly pro-yellow shirt...

[baldrick13]

I thought the "yellow shirts" were pro government ? If so ,why they dont accept the proposal of Mr Abbisit ? If there are clashes it will be because the "yellow shirts" have to worry about the result of the next election and they probably do their best to avoid such result . In the mean time who is suffering ? the majority of the people who only look for peace. That is a good image to give to the world, bombs there , grenades ,policeman killed etc .. That is so sad . Yellow against Red ,what next ?

[nakachalet]

I thought the "yellow shirts" were pro government ? If so ,why they dont accept the proposal of Mr Abbisit ? If there are clashes it will be because the "yellow shirts" have to worry about the result of the next election and they probably do their best to avoid such result . In the mean time who is suffering ? the majority of the people who only look for peace. That is a good image to give to the world, bombs there , grenades ,policeman killed etc .. That is so sad . Yellow against Red ,what next ?

the yellows are not pro govt...

they are succinctly pro DEMOCRACY....

at present, apisit has not chosen to exercise his constitutional AND court granted rights to apply the laws evenly and equally.... to the reds as well as other citizen.... which include those injured and died--both from civilians and protectors of the law....

the yellows are asking for him to step aside because.... it appears that he is giving the reds some higher value of life.... than those civilians and military personnel who have been injured and some died....

apisit since some months ago, ordered those dealing with reds to handle the reds with care and tenderness.... but at the same time, apisit has not expressed much or did much to protect the non-participating civilians.... nor the military personnel....

the latter group appears to have lesser significance in apisit personal preference....

this is the issue at hand.... that yellows are asking for someone who would apply the law and order EQUALLY among and between reds, yellows and multicolors....

someone who values, treasures and protects every color with equal passion....

[baldrick13]

put them against the wall and fire away i say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brahmburgers]

......if redshirt thugs tried to search my belongings anywhere I'll flip them the bird and spray them with mace...

Where can a person buy spray-type mace in Thailand? There are some gnarly dogs I'd like to mace - which chase me when I'm on two wheels, or harass my friends when they're out strolling on my soi.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Plachon --- great post. I know squat about farming and that helped!

Jerry --- I still don't buy it. (and as a reminder for the 34th time --- Thailand isn't France)

The reds ARE violent. I assume you can't understand spoken Thai because if you could you would know the violence threatened AND acted upon by the red leaders (not just the rank and file!)

We are not going to extend the debate: you do not buy it: it is your problem. yes Thailand is not France but Thai behavior seems closer to French than to Anglosaxon one.

British citizens are used to the French methods: blockage of ports by fishermen, blockage of Channel tunnel, highways blocked by truck drivers or farmers, burning tyres a usual trick... and who is the negotiator: the Government. In Italy it is often as tricky as in France, the French model suits Europe, South of the 47th parallel.....

-1994 the Parliament of Rennes on fire 9beautiful building from 17th Century) and half of the antiriot forces injured (fisherman), our demonstrations are not so peaceful that the American or British picketing, we are used to and we know how it is ending:

The usual way to end a strike or a rallye is to present the results of the negotiation to a vote and only after acceptence by the mob to stop the demonstration.

So be patient, cool your nerves.....

Edited May 10, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[MikeyIdea]

The redshirts are on the verge of getting what they want. It is more much likely that it is someone else who wants to disrupt the peacetrain.

I may be one of the few thinking so but I DON'T think that the reds are on the verge of getting what they want at all. What have they managed to achieve? The last big attempt to stop traffic / demonstration taught them that if they step out of line, then they will be smacked on their fingers with a metal ruler – Police and soldiers side by side firing mostly rubber bullets but still, 18 wounded and the demonstrators limped back to be cheered as heroes. They were real cheers at the time but are they still that? Who's running out of time?

I have previously shared the story about Ui who used to go to Ratchaprasong and get a thousand bath per day, then he stopped going there after the 10 April killings. He is now back again sometimes because as he jokingly says himself, - it helps with money. And not to have the same discussion again, Yes, Ui wants change and thinks that the reds are the solution to that, I am not saying anything else. But when I ask for what change, then he turns a bit quiet so when I suggest stop to corruption, then he immediately answers Yes, when I suggest freedom of speech, then he immediately answers Yes.

Ui confirms that he still gets a thousand bath (he has gotten 1,200 too sometimes) when he goes, more interestingly, he says that you get 2,500 bath if you bring the motorcycle, if there is a need for it of course.

Are the red shirts on the verge of getting what they want? There are still people who would be happy to bring their motorcycles to a demonstration without getting paid, of course, but the reds incentive scheme of paying 2,500 bath to get more people joining doesn't seem as attractive any longer. Ui quickly answers – No way station when I ask if he will bring the bike, and we laugh. Why haven't there been more motorcycle cavalcades lately?

The red organization handling out money to protesters is good, and I don't see that control of the masses is a big problem. There is a real problem with the undermining of the respect for the law applying to all of course, but then the Thais have never had a lot of respect for the law and things still work in Thailand so that is manageable by Thai standards – and thereby also by my standards.

But there are also rouge elements that have been un-leached, I can see in Ui that he is uncomfortable when he tells me about them. They are bad people, benn khan maii dii loei. Ui says that they come and go, that they aren't that many but he has no idea how many, and he stays away from the when he goes to Ratchaprasong. His description of them is naa gloa. Then he changes subject. And we have fun talking about something else.

What's the incentive for these rouge elements to stop? To what extent are they controlled? The question is not really how controlled they are but rather how controlled they want to be, and I don't know that of course.

The longer time goes before the next motorcycle cavalcade – that deliberately tries to stop traffic! – the more it looks like the reds are still running out of time. Election victory can be bought of course, but that is no surprise. Moving forward, it seems that there is still incentive to escalate the violence, because status quo makes the reds victory look more and more hollow

What is sad I think is that nothing is going to be solved by the elections, the reds were not in majority at the last elections and they are not in majority now, and the election process is going to be marred by irregularities. It doesn't matter which side that wins, the other side is going to question it. It's a lose – lose situation. Vote buying will be the decisive factor, again

Edited May 10, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[silk]

I think a few people here should watch this very informative conducted by the ANU (Aust Nat Uni)

"

I dont agree with you....EVERYONE should view this ...and particuarly take note of the last presenter.....there will be some people on TV who wont agree but what the man says is all basic common sense...there are many countries going through the same pains

you are right, very interesting video. In my opinion the reds need to be educated and learn that their situation is not caused by the current government, but by the financial crisis (exports declined), which hit them the most.

[jcbangkok]

I think a few people here should watch this very informative conducted by the ANU (Aust Nat Uni)

"

I dont agree with you....EVERYONE should view this ...and particuarly take note of the last presenter.....there will be some people on TV who wont agree but what the man says is all basic common sense...there are many countries going through the same pains

you are right, very interesting video. In my opinion the reds need to be educated and learn that their situation is not caused by the current government, but by the financial crisis (exports declined), which hit them the most.

I believe you are making a false assumption that those within the red mob think about anything beyond what their leaders have programmed them to think.