The Rural Poor Of Thailand... Some Surprises

[NanLaew]

^ OK, I will get off the pot now.

Some people don't understand the point that wintermute makes where just because it looks like that country person appears to be terribly idle at the moment, it may be just a pause in a work cycle that they haven't bothered to consider since as far as they are concerned, rice comes out a bag bought at Tesco's.

Generally empirical knowledge trumps local experience, no question about that but Loongs village sounds like mine. My point is if you are going to wax lyrical about the impoverished Thai, don't mess up the research by lumping them in with those that live quite well in and around the Big Mango and other urban conurbations. That just skews the results leading to incorrect assumptions. I mean where on earth is cellphone registration recognised as a benchmark of a countries affluence <deleted>? That is akin to some punters saying my politician is much better than your politician because he has more Facebook friends, so bugger the election results.

Don't snigger; you know who you are!

[wintermute]

I think that there are a lot of high school kids living out in the villages that would be very interested to know about these jobs at 30 Baht an hour. Most adults around here get paid between 150 and 200 Baht for a 10 hour day. Some of them have to pay 50 or 60 Baht travelling costs per day from that.

If you can read or speak Thai go to any fast food outlet and ask about vacancies. They usually have "help wanted" signs plastered all over the place and even in thai job ads. There are tons of these jobs all around you just have to know how to communicate in Thai to know about them. They are "lo-so" type jobs and they are staffed by those teenagers.

The reason why more rural kids don't go to the city for these jobs is probably because of family or other social considerations. They don't like to be away from home and the incentives are probably not great enough for them to move.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I just read the article and I think it's hyper condescending monkey-hurlage.

How can you actually get crap like this out of a pen:

But the Thai carpenter probably lives on family land rent-free, pays nothing to moderate the climate, produces his own vegetables, chickens, eggs and pork, and rides his own motor-cycle to his jobs. He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious.

Clue: The carpenter feels deprived when he tells you he's deprived, and when he moves from making tables and chairs to sharpened bamboo stakes. ( And also note that this feeling of deprivation may be more politically than financially. Not sure what the article tries to tell us other than that the author doesn't like Thaksin and that Thailand as a whole is not as poor as Laos.. News at 11. )

I still give it one star for not including the word 'sufficiency' anywhere, though. Thank you.

Edited May 10, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NanLaew]

^ Oooh Winnie... disrespect for sufficiency AND mentioning the 'T' word?

Go stand in the corner, face the wall.

[Chunky1]

Construction workers make 200 baht a day. The price of a Big Mac set. Yep, not bad at all.

[loong]

I think that there are a lot of high school kids living out in the villages that would be very interested to know about these jobs at 30 Baht an hour. Most adults around here get paid between 150 and 200 Baht for a 10 hour day. Some of them have to pay 50 or 60 Baht travelling costs per day from that.

If you can read or speak Thai go to any fast food outlet and ask about vacancies. They usually have "help wanted" signs plastered all over the place and even in thai job ads. There are tons of these jobs all around you just have to know how to communicate in Thai to know about them. They are "lo-so" type jobs and they are staffed by those teenagers.

The reason why more rural kids don't go to the city for these jobs is probably because of family or other social considerations. They don't like to be away from home and the incentives are probably not great enough for them to move.

So you are now talking about city jobs in a thread about rural Thais.

My missus has a food outlet in Khon Kaen city. She employs 6 staff and their pay is 200 Baht per day. She has a constant stream of people wanting to work for her. She is actually overstaffed at the moment as the University students are on holiday.

Why then, if there are so many jobs available at 250 or 300 Baht per day, so many are unable to find work and are willing to work for my missus at 200 Baht per day?

One of her staff sleeps at the shop. It is too difficult and time consuming as well as expensive for her to travel every day.

For many rural Thais, working in a city is not a good option because of travel costs or accomodation

[Chunky1]

If there was <1% unemployment, the minimum salary would not be as low as it is. Supply and demand anyone? The author of the article probably spends most of his time dreaming up this BS at Starbucks.

[Samuian]

There are still millions who wake up at the crack of dawn and do back breaking work all day long 6 or 7 days a week.Live in extremely basic houses and wouldnt survive without financial help from their offspring.Alot of them are actually in debt but its obviosly not recorded in the statistics , many of them pay high rates of interest but Unicef and world bank etc have no idea about this.If you took time to move around Bangkok and not just stay arouns Sukhumvit and the centre you will cllearly see slums that accomodate hundreds of thousands of people.A construction labour worker will typically earn around 6.000 baht a month , I´d like to see you do that.Have you ever been to many places up country ? I doubt it.

Wake up , these orginazations have no idea and just sit in their offices playing around with numbers and not reality.Most of this article is complete rubbish.

Thailand has ALOT of poverty , no people dot starve to death Thailand is known as the garden of Asia and produces alot of food but alot of people in Thailand have an extremely hard life.

Just because they smilealot , it doesn´t mean they are comfortable like the people who work in UNICEF , World bank and yourself etc

I suggest you go to neighboring Laos, Cambodia or much, much better to India, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Ivory Coast...!

Then you know how "poor" Thailand's citizens and Thailand as a country really is..!

But the OP wasn't really about poverty - it was about someone straight forward claims that HE did this - that HE lifted the "rural poor" out of their misery and to simply set the record straight about this political trickster stunt or is it a simple publicity lie - which everyone wholeheartedly bought into....?

He simply usurped others..... deeds and if so the honor belongs to people like Prem and Anand, that is why he tries to frame them as the "amitiya" which supposedly suppresses the people - quite daring - isn't it?

But also speaks volumes about the character of the people behind all this!

As an onlooker I feel more and more disgusted!

[scorecard]

Interesting, although I would doubt that some of the points in your opinion are totally accurate.

I say 'opinion' quite deliberately because you do not quote any sources of your comments, details, statistics etc.

Perhaps you'd like to share your sources.

The rural poor (although nobody starves) could have a much better standard of living if there was a more equitable distribution of Thailand's wealth.

Also, better quality education and better access would enhance the overall opportunities of many, especially rural Thais.

And it's al0so true that the rural poor (and many other Thai's) have less than acceptable resource to justice.

[Neurath]

This thread is headed "The rural poor of Thailand"

I live amongst the Rural poor and so I do not agree with much of this article.

You're basing all of this on your own personal experiences while they took a large statistical and economic look at the entire country. Their information is far more valid than your simple anecdotal and biased perspective.

Statistics are based on available data. If the available data does not accurately reflect the facts then the statistics will be inaccurate.

When a large percentage of the population works on a casual basis for cash in hand with no record of their employment, there is insufficient data to allow statistics to be accurate.

When a set of statistics are not supported by what I can see with my own eyes, I believe that my observations are more valid than the statistics.

Whenever I read about unemployment figures in Thailand, the figures are always estimated. Why estimated?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkl...moz35&sao=0

"When a set of statistics are not supported by what I can see with my own eyes, I believe that my observations are more valid than the statistics."

My grandfather smoked his entire life and lived to 92. Does that mean that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? Of course not.

Because you see some women having more than 2 children, does that mean that, on average, women in Thailand have more than 1.6? Of course not.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Neurath

[Samuian]

Interesting, although I would doubt that some of the points in your opinion are totally accurate.

I say 'opinion' quite deliberately because you do not quote any sources of your comments, details, statistics etc.

Perhaps you'd like to share your sources.

The rural poor (although nobody starves) could have a much better standard of living if there was a more equitable distribution of Thailand's wealth.

Also, better quality education and better access would enhance the overall opportunities of many, especially rural Thais.

And it's al0so true that the rural poor (and many other Thai's) have less than acceptable resource to justice.

This could easily be transferred to any population of ANY country on the planet - there is simply NOT such a thing!

It's daydreaming!

ti clearly states in the OP that "It has become better and better over the years" - how about US-Farmers of the mid-west?

[wintermute]

If there was <1% unemployment, the minimum salary would not be as low as it is. Supply and demand anyone? The author of the article probably spends most of his time dreaming up this BS at Starbucks.

You don't know jack about economics. Unemployment level has nothing to do with actual wage or salary amount. Salary increases are dependent on a multitude of things such as inflation, competition, or lack of candidates in highly sought after skilled positions.

A country can be developing and have low unemployment AND relatively low per capita wages too. This is due to the type of industry that's abundant in Thailand. There are more than enough service and factory type jobs available.

[Atmos]

Jobs aren't hard to get in Thailand. Even a high school kid can get a basic food service or stall job that pays 25-30 baht an hour. Those places are always looking for people. A lot of the rural farmers are probably counted as employed because they live self sustainable agricultural based lifestyles.

Locally - and this is a long way from a fast food restaurant - local kids about 10-12 earning 48 baht/day cleaning/trimming field grown mushrooms for sale.

And I would suggest some will give a portion of this to their parents.

I upset the local economy paying a 10yr old 20 baht to clean the motorscooter - 15-20min. Parents would be in the 200/day category.

[Heng]

The rural poor (although nobody starves) could have a much better standard of living if there was a more equitable distribution of Thailand's wealth.

I wish I could call a mulligan or do over on some of my business ventures, I'd probably have 10x or maybe even 100x in terms of net worth. But such is life.

[thaifrelst]

None of us western people would swap our material standard or way of living with the rural pour thais.

There is so many social problems to take care of in the rural areas that nobody see any ending of it.

The most lucky ones is the families that have a good looking daughter to offer a "handsome" farrang.

They are the winners in the village.

There is one good thing with it. The farrangs, me included brings a set of living and material standard to the village that make some of the peasants wake up.

I wish the rural thai people a better life.

Anyway I have to admire them for not showing any kind of mistrust or envy. The smiles look real.

I am not the only farrang building a western style house in the village, but it is very funny to see that after I start building,- lot of the peasants nearby start building new or refurbish existing house.

My experience when it comes to find workers to do some work for me is that they are not confident with western standards.

And believe me. I am following my country's standard which can cause real headache for most people.

But in the end - everything's looks good and proper without me understand the reason.

[Chaimai]

There are still millions who wake up at the crack of dawn and do back breaking work all day long 6 or 7 days a week.

Remind me again what they do exactly after the harvest has been collected and until 5/6 months later when the nextcrop is planted .

[wintermute]

The most lucky ones is the families that have a good looking daughter to offer a "handsome" farrang.

They are the winners in the village.

Bzzzt. Wrong. The lucky ones are the ones who have daughters who are good looking and manage to go to decent university on a scholarship and graduate marrying a respectable Thai guy from a decent family. This is real social mobility without selling your soul.

Everyone else is just settling for inferior options and or because they met their "suitors" from "alternative" occupations.

Edited May 10, 2010 by wintermute

[gotlost]

There are still millions who wake up at the crack of dawn and do back breaking work all day long 6 or 7 days a week.

Remind me again what they do exactly after the harvest has been collected and until 5/6 months later when the nextcrop is planted .

They don't set around writing condescending post.

[Heng]

The most lucky ones is the families that have a good looking daughter to offer a "handsome" farrang.

They are the winners in the village.

Bzzzt. Wrong. The lucky ones are the ones who have daughters who are good looking and manage to go to decent university on a scholarship and graduate marrying a respectable Thai guy from a decent family. This is real social mobility without selling your soul.

Everyone else is just settling for inferior options and or because they met their "suitors" from "alternative" occupations.

Surely all groups have a right to spin their own situations into a positive light?

[Spee]

The most lucky ones is the families that have a good looking daughter to offer a "handsome" farrang.

They are the winners in the village.

Bzzzt. Wrong. The lucky ones are the ones who have daughters who are good looking and manage to go to decent university on a scholarship and graduate marrying a respectable Thai guy from a decent family. This is real social mobility without selling your soul.

Everyone else is just settling for inferior options and or because they met their "suitors" from "alternative" occupations.

Does anyone else besides me find both of these posts to be patently offensive?

How does getting together with a farang make the family a winner? My partner got so sick of her family's constant bitching about a continuing hand-out, the mother's piece of sin-sod, and so many other ao-bpriap moments, that she couldn't take it anymore (kriat mahk mahk, sia jai). She kicked them out of our home and changed her phone number. I have felt this way for some time, but this is something she needed to learn and realize for herself.

I also resent being labeled as an inferior option from an alternative occupation. We met purely by chance, and have stayed together through hard work & patience & survival from a lot of stressful situations, not because she sold her soul. She has had a tough life and showed a lot of guts to go off and try to make her way in a strange country. She is a great girl and a good mother with a kind heart. She deserves a guy like me and I deserve a girl like her.

So take your flawed and offensive generalities and stuff 'em up where the sun doesn't shine.

[kokesaat]

I live just 18km outside Udon. For the past 5 years, I've been bike riding in neighborhoods all around the province. Hardly a ride goes by when I don't shake my head in wonder, "This is the 21st century and people still live like this?" Grass thatch roofs, woven bamboo walls, tinned over windows because there are no windows, an electrical cord running hundreds of meters to provide minimal power for a light, fan, maybe a tv. No running water, or if the village is lucky to have a pond, water tanks that are ill-kept or pumps that are not operating. Mandatory education? Not in my village.....a good percentage of the boys quit after grade 6 and many who continue through grade 9 are there in name only. We call the village a 'baby factory' because of the number of kids who keep appearing. Sure there are plenty of Thais who don't live like this, but to underestimate the number who are deprived is akin to wearing blinders.

[Chunky1]

The Lifetime TV network and Hallmark Videos Incorporated ought to recruit solely from Thai Visa. There is an endless number of nauseating, usually in broken English type posts along the lines of "Nok have big heart. She never sip alcohol. She meet me. We love each other. Now she has a small business. She have many money. Her parents are so nice. They love her. They love me. They say I have big heart. I so happy. Her brother work in Bic C and he say to me Mr Bob I love you. They fix my motorbike and I try to give them 100 baht but they say no so I bake them a cake".... I can just picture the lot of you sitting on the floor of a studio apartment with teary eyes watching the nightly Thai soaps.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Chunky1

[Chunky1]

I live just 18km outside Udon. For the past 5 years, I've been bike riding in neighborhoods all around the province. Hardly a ride goes by when I don't shake my head in wonder, "This is the 21st century and people still live like this?" Grass thatch roofs, woven bamboo walls, tinned over windows because there are no windows, an electrical cord running hundreds of meters to provide minimal power for a light, fan, maybe a tv. No running water, or if the village is lucky to have a pond, water tanks that are ill-kept or pumps that are not operating. Mandatory education? Not in my village.....a good percentage of the boys quit after grade 6 and many who continue through grade 9 are there in name only. We call the village a 'baby factory' because of the number of kids who keep appearing. Sure there are plenty of Thais who don't live like this, but to underestimate the number who are deprived is akin to wearing blinders.

Queue someone to nobly point out that these people smile frequently .

Edited May 10, 2010 by Chunky1

[loong]

I live just 18km outside Udon. For the past 5 years, I've been bike riding in neighborhoods all around the province. Hardly a ride goes by when I don't shake my head in wonder, "This is the 21st century and people still live like this?" Grass thatch roofs, woven bamboo walls, tinned over windows because there are no windows, an electrical cord running hundreds of meters to provide minimal power for a light, fan, maybe a tv. No running water, or if the village is lucky to have a pond, water tanks that are ill-kept or pumps that are not operating. Mandatory education? Not in my village.....a good percentage of the boys quit after grade 6 and many who continue through grade 9 are there in name only. We call the village a 'baby factory' because of the number of kids who keep appearing. Sure there are plenty of Thais who don't live like this, but to underestimate the number who are deprived is akin to wearing blinders.

Kokesaat, you made me smile when you said "We call the village a 'baby factory'"

That is exactly what my GF calls this village

She says that when people have no money to spend on entertainment, the only free thing available to them is sex.

The new babies keep appearing, so it is not surprising that I find it unbelievable when statistics say that every woman gives birth to 1.6 children in her lifetime.

Are there any statistics about the amount of women that the doctors suggest sterilisation after 2 babies? It happens a lot. I'm not going to say that it is policy, but I am aware of many women that have been sterilised. Anybody else? You can draw your own conclusions

[loong]

The Lifetime TV network and Hallmark Videos Incorporated ought to recruit solely from Thai Visa. There is an endless number of nauseating, usually in broken English type posts along the lines of "Nok have big heart. She never sip alcohol. She meet me. We love each other. Now she has a small business. She have many money. Her parents are so nice. They love her. They love me. They say I have big heart. I so happy. Her brother work in Bic C and he say to me Mr Bob I love you. They fix my motorbike and I try to give them 100 baht but they say no so I bake them a cake".... I can just picture the lot of you sitting on the floor of a studio apartment with teary eyes watching the nightly Thai soaps.

And I can picture you sitting with 6 empty Chang bottles adding a reply to the wrong thread

What are you on about

?

[wintermute]

The Lifetime TV network and Hallmark Videos Incorporated ought to recruit solely from Thai Visa. There is an endless number of nauseating, usually in broken English type posts along the lines of "Nok have big heart. She never sip alcohol. She meet me. We love each other. Now she has a small business. She have many money. Her parents are so nice. They love her. They love me. They say I have big heart. I so happy. Her brother work in Bic C and he say to me Mr Bob I love you. They fix my motorbike and I try to give them 100 baht but they say no so I bake them a cake".... I can just picture the lot of you sitting on the floor of a studio apartment with teary eyes watching the nightly Thai soaps.

And I can picture you sitting with 6 empty Chang bottles adding a reply to the wrong thread

What are you on about

?

[StreetCowboy]

The Lifetime TV network and Hallmark Videos Incorporated ought to recruit solely from Thai Visa. There is an endless number of nauseating, usually in broken English type posts along the lines of "Nok have big heart. She never sip alcohol. She meet me. We love each other. Now she has a small business. She have many money. Her parents are so nice. They love her. They love me. They say I have big heart. I so happy. Her brother work in Bic C and he say to me Mr Bob I love you. They fix my motorbike and I try to give them 100 baht but they say no so I bake them a cake".... I can just picture the lot of you sitting on the floor of a studio apartment with teary eyes watching the nightly Thai soaps.

And I can picture you sitting with 6 empty Chang bottles adding a reply to the wrong thread

What are you on about

?

For your contribution to the quality of debate - the FA cup

SC

[tartempion]

I live just 18km outside Udon. For the past 5 years, I've been bike riding in neighborhoods all around the province. Hardly a ride goes by when I don't shake my head in wonder, "This is the 21st century and people still live like this?" Grass thatch roofs, woven bamboo walls, tinned over windows because there are no windows, an electrical cord running hundreds of meters to provide minimal power for a light, fan, maybe a tv. No running water, or if the village is lucky to have a pond, water tanks that are ill-kept or pumps that are not operating. Mandatory education? Not in my village.....a good percentage of the boys quit after grade 6 and many who continue through grade 9 are there in name only. We call the village a 'baby factory' because of the number of kids who keep appearing. Sure there are plenty of Thais who don't live like this, but to underestimate the number who are deprived is akin to wearing blinders.

sorry but it seems statistics are more correct to TV readers than your bike riding estimates around the villages.

Btw, did you notice all the trash alongside the road when you bicycle around?

My personal bicycle riding stats around the villages 40kms outside Udon show 3000 trash items per km, but that should be food for an other topic right?

[wintermute]

The Lifetime TV network and Hallmark Videos Incorporated ought to recruit solely from Thai Visa. There is an endless number of nauseating, usually in broken English type posts along the lines of "Nok have big heart. She never sip alcohol. She meet me. We love each other. Now she has a small business. She have many money. Her parents are so nice. They love her. They love me. They say I have big heart. I so happy. Her brother work in Bic C and he say to me Mr Bob I love you. They fix my motorbike and I try to give them 100 baht but they say no so I bake them a cake".... I can just picture the lot of you sitting on the floor of a studio apartment with teary eyes watching the nightly Thai soaps.

And I can picture you sitting with 6 empty Chang bottles adding a reply to the wrong thread

What are you on about

?

For your contribution to the quality of debate - the FA cup

SC

What a shiny tin British pot for me to p*ss in.

[anon7867763]

The reaction to this fact based article is hardly surprising as it goes against everything so many believe about Thailand. The key point people have problem with the that Thailand is indeed a developing country, but amount developing countries it is at the top level.

One poster mentioned about the Bangkok slums, such as Klong Toey, and indeed within it are some truly deplorable housing, but next time that poster drives by one perhaps they could count the UBC dish antennas in that slum.

For unskilled labor on a constructions site, the wage is indeed just above the minimum, but anyone that knows anything about construction knows that unskilled labor is only about half or less of the workforce required. You can be sure the equipment operators, the electricians, pipefitters, welders, carpenters, etc, make a lot more.

TH

There are 3497 UBC dishes although 121 are broken and not working and around 20% can not receive channel 3 - 46 residents have ordered and are waiting for delivery whilst 23 owners are trying to sell them on.

The housing in Klong Toey is not actually deplorable.The place was rebuilt a few years ago and the construction is 10 times better than a tin shack.Theres even e real nice community park for children included in the urbanization but beleive me there IS alot of poverty inside these lodgings.Does it have to be so desparate like Calcutta or Lagos before we call it poverty ?