Can She Sell The House I Have A 30 Year Lease On ?

[sarahsbloke]

12% laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Aint anywhere in the world at present with safe returns of 12%

No investment is ever totally safe, certainly not one that involves property in a Thai ladies name, I made 20 percent last year (on the UK stock market using a medium risk stratergy, I was surprised too), but even at 4 percent I would be better off not risking buying a house in Thailand.

At 4 percent my house for the year would have lost me 12,000bht out of 1.8 million

Edited May 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[jackdawson]

buying makes sense if you keep it pactical.

Rent is always money down the drain.

unless , of course, u live in a country where the government lets squatters occupy the biggest city's best property for two months and then burn down the city's best malls on their way back to the shack

note to self; renting in now third world /formerly second world countries is ALWAYS better

Edited May 24, 2010 by jackdawson

[LivinLOS]

I think the moral or the story is don't buy A house in thailand,ya have to put it in A thai's name.The lease sounds like A joke.Myself I think renting is the only way for A farang in thailand to go.

And if you stay hre 10 years or more paying approx 9,000 a month rent, thats more than a million wasted....buying makes sense if you keep it pactical.

And the money you tie up on purchasing ??

I have made 30+ % annually for the last 5 years.. If I had bought even a modest phuket home, say 10m, that would be costing me 3 million annually.. A lot more then the rental of the same kind of quality.

Your totally missing the time value of money.

[LivinLOS]

And if you stay hre 10 years or more paying approx 9,000 a month rent, thats more than a million wasted....buying makes sense if you keep it pactical.

Only if you keep the million in a box under your bed for the 10 years, only opening the box to extract the rent each month.

I can make between 6 and 12 percent from that million each year.

Current gross returns on private housing in Thailand is approx 5 percent (not the 10 percent you have assumed)

A simple calculation shows ... at the end of 10 years renting a 1 million bht property at the current rental prices of 4,500bht a month, I will have 2 million left, after paying my rent.

I live in a house valued at 1.8 million baht and pay 7000bht a month rental, if I were to purchase the house, at the end of 10 years I would need to sell it for 5 million baht in order to break even on my investment potential, which is highly unlikely.

Buying in Thailand rarely makes sense!

12% Aint anywhere in the world at present with safe returns of 12%, do you work in one of those bangkok boiler rooms by any chance? Do the calculation correctly assuming a reasonable return of 4% and rent of 9,000 rather than an unrealistic 4,500 which is what a decent room costs rather than a nice bungalow. Rent is always money down the drain.

So you havent taken any advice to own gold or silver in the last few years then ??

Your loss.

[ESB7]

And if you stay hre 10 years or more paying approx 9,000 a month rent, thats more than a million wasted....buying makes sense if you keep it pactical.

Only if you keep the million in a box under your bed for the 10 years, only opening the box to extract the rent each month.

I can make between 6 and 12 percent from that million each year.

Current gross returns on private housing in Thailand is approx 5 percent (not the 10 percent you have assumed)

A simple calculation shows ... at the end of 10 years renting a 1 million bht property at the current rental prices of 4,500bht a month, I will have 2 million left, after paying my rent.

I live in a house valued at 1.8 million baht and pay 7000bht a month rental, if I were to purchase the house, at the end of 10 years I would need to sell it for 5 million baht in order to break even on my investment potential, which is highly unlikely.

Buying in Thailand rarely makes sense!

12% Aint anywhere in the world at present with safe returns of 12%, do you work in one of those bangkok boiler rooms by any chance? Do the calculation correctly assuming a reasonable return of 4% and rent of 9,000 rather than an unrealistic 4,500 which is what a decent room costs rather than a nice bungalow. Rent is always money down the drain.

So you havent taken any advice to own gold or silver in the last few years then ??

Your loss.

Gold isnt safe, its down again today, befor you say property isnt safe, I am aware of that but you always need somewhere to stay and rent is dead money no matter how you want to gloss it over.

[husskydog]

I think the moral or the story is don't buy A house in thailand,ya have to put it in A thai's name.The lease sounds like A joke.Myself I think renting is the only way for A farang in thailand to go.

And if you stay hre 10 years or more paying approx 9,000 a month rent, thats more than a million wasted....buying makes sense if you keep it pactical.

Only if the house is free to start with......duh

How do you plan in getting your investment back...above posts, worth a look!

Lawyer`s costs!

Travel costs!

Death costs!

Rent and Runnnnnnnnn

Edited May 24, 2010 by husskydog

[ESB7]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy. If it suits someone to EXIST here in a small room or cheap apartment/house then thats their choice, personally I prefer to live rather than exist. buying makes sense and if done the right way is also an investment that can give a good return on selling.

[stgrhe]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy. If it suits someone to EXIST here in a small room or cheap apartment/house then thats their choice, personally I prefer to live rather than exist. buying makes sense and if done the right way is also an investment that can give a good return on selling.

Well said ESB7! It is really annoying to read all these "rent instead" nonsense posts when OP's are asking questions related to buying property.

[sarahsbloke]

I wonder what the statistics are

people who buy a house and make a profit on sale Vs people who buy a house and lose lots.

Anyway the OP clearly wishes he hadn't and those in the west who are considered financially astute don't.

(Americans, British and Pakistani do, Swiss(??), French and German don't)

I tend to think those who boast about breaking Thai law are in for a shock in the future .... but if it makes you happy go ahead, just stop trying to justify your foolish actions to others who are more careful with their money. I bought a house in the UK 400,000 UKP down the drain (20million baht) when a judge awarded it to my former wife even though she had contributed nothing financially to it. How clever was it for me to buy that house?

Edited May 25, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[katabeachbum]

Simple answer NO.

Actually I think you'll find she CAN.

However the new owner must honour the lease so she'll have problems getting a buyer.

if its not agreed on in the lease agreement she can NOT sell the property, she can sell it. But the 30 year lease remains, and you are safe as long as it remains and you dont let anyone else move in (like the new owner). However, some grant 3 x 30 years leases, and this would be tricky with new owner.

[LivinLOS]

12% Aint anywhere in the world at present with safe returns of 12%, do you work in one of those bangkok boiler rooms by any chance? Do the calculation correctly assuming a reasonable return of 4% and rent of 9,000 rather than an unrealistic 4,500 which is what a decent room costs rather than a nice bungalow. Rent is always money down the drain.

So you havent taken any advice to own gold or silver in the last few years then ??

Your loss.

Gold isnt safe, its down again today, befor you say property isnt safe, I am aware of that but you always need somewhere to stay and rent is dead money no matter how you want to gloss it over.

If your rent, is far less money than the investment returns you make on the same amount of investment required to buy the house (which you dont own anyway) how is that dead money ??

I bought gold at 380 USD an Oz.. And rented a house.. The OP bought a house in a Thai womans name.. Now I have a >300% return, and the OP has no house.. Which one was the way to go ??

[LivinLOS]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy. If it suits someone to EXIST here in a small room or cheap apartment/house then thats their choice, personally I prefer to live rather than exist. buying makes sense and if done the right way is also an investment that can give a good return on selling.

You must be joking.. multi millionaires I know rent.. You dont get to be rich by making foolish investment choices.

My last villa was 75k a month.. For a 1 mil USD ballpark villa.. The villa got destroyed in a landslide.. The insurance wont pay the farang villa owner.. He lost a million bucks and I just moved house.

Buying even a large phuket property would be single digit %'ages of my net worth, but if the numbers dont stack up, I wont do it.

Pics of my last home.. I consider that a bit more than 'existing'..

[ESB7]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/House-Sale-t336758.html

Prior post of mine.

3 Million baht brought here in 2007 = £41k at 72 XE

8 Million baht taken back 2010 = £170k at 47 XE...£130k profit in 3 years on £41k...whats that in %%%%%%%

Property should be seen as a home and not a money maker. Profit is a bonus. Ownership may not suit all in Thailand but a lot of people do make money while staying in a beautiful home at the same time. Stay away from agents and build and sell the same as the domestic market and you are OK...go for gated communities etc through agents and then you may get prolems.

Good luck to renters, I prefer somewhere that is HOME rather than paying to buy someone elses house.

[ESB7]

End of the month, looks like all the renters must be busy handing their hard earned cash to the landlord or just realised it does make sense to buy .

[jackdawson]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy.

i know real estate agents r capable of incredible hyperbole (i.e. lies) but this statement is breathtaking for it's stupidity . keep up the good work .

yup, just went to the ATM and got the cash to pay rent guaranteeing another month in "paradise" (should i so choose) unshackled from the weight of owning real property in a mango "republic"

[cangetman]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy.

i know real estate agents r capable of incredible hyperbole (i.e. lies) but this statement is breathtaking for it's stupidity . keep up the good work .

yup, just went to the ATM and got the cash to pay rent guaranteeing another month in "paradise" (should i so choose) unshackled from the weight of owning real property in a mango "republic"

I must admit jack i agree with you the this quote is beyond stupidity , I am surprised that anyone who is making comments of such a childish nature is allowed on to any forum! but then again i suppose thats why we have mental institutions for this type of invidual, maybe the individual concerned was out on day release and had access to a PC at the time

[ESB7]

People who rent only do so because they cant afford to buy.

i know real estate agents r capable of incredible hyperbole (i.e. lies) but this statement is breathtaking for it's stupidity . keep up the good work .

yup, just went to the ATM and got the cash to pay rent guaranteeing another month in "paradise" (should i so choose) unshackled from the weight of owning real property in a mango "republic"

I must admit jack i agree with you the this quote is beyond stupidity , I am surprised that anyone who is making comments of such a childish nature is allowed on to any forum! but then again i suppose thats why we have mental institutions for this type of invidual, maybe the individual concerned was out on day release and had access to a PC at the time

Stupid enough to make £130k in 3 years....and just about to make another £60k on a second property here. Must feel good to pay for someone else to sit around doing nothing by paying them rent each month.....thats stupidity but if you aint got the cash to buy then you cant really do much else but rent can you.

[sarahsbloke]

.thats stupidity biggrin.gif but if you aint got the cash to buy then you cant really do much else but rent can you.

More like "If you ain't got the cash to risk"

I did have the cash to risk ...... but my former UK wife had all 20 million Bahts worth of house off me.

Looks like the OP lost 10 million baht as well.

I wonder how much longer your luck will last?

Anyway fed up with your daft posts now so it's you for the ignore list, bye bye.

Edited May 28, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[ESB7]

.thats stupidity biggrin.gif but if you aint got the cash to buy then you cant really do much else but rent can you.

More like "If you ain't got the cash to risk"

I did have the cash to risk ...... but my former UK wife had all 20 million Bahts worth of house off me.

Looks like the OP lost 10 million baht as well.

I wonder how much longer your luck will last?

Anyway fed up with your daft posts now so it's you for the ignore list, bye bye.

[Heng]

It all depends on your situation. Funny how sensitive folks get on this one.

I prefer outright ownership, myself.

For my foreign friends, I don't recommend ownership unless it's a condo in their own name, and even then only if they have another home in their home country. I say 'it's your call' if it's your 2nd, 3rd, etc. home and the 1st in your spouses name.

The chanote is king, I'm with those who say that she can sell. Make sure you pay your rent on time to the new owner.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Heng

[personchester]

No she can't. She might want access to the house to check her land at some times, but she cannot sell the land, loan money on it or live in it without your written approval. Just make sure that you have a will to your family or a friend here in case you pass away too early.

Under Thai law you could split up (even if you did not ever get married) and court would grant you both half of everything in most cases. She couldn't get it all.

No, that is not correct, the owner of a house can sell the house without the approval of the tennant, it is the other way round ... if a tennant wants to sublet the house to a new tennant he needs the approval of the house owner but the original tennnat will remain responsible for the rentel payments according to the original lease.

Should the owner (his Gf) find a buyer then the buyer must accept the existing lease in its full term, but she will not find a buyer under normal circumstances because there are no rental payments for all the remaining leasehold years (30 yrs less elapsed time) and no buyer would see an advantage in buying the house since there is no return from the investment.

But there are of course other impulses, some business characters do specialise in this sort of purchase, that is to say they only buy houses with existing tennants with long leases, the longer the lease the cheaper the house, and when the purchase is completed the activities to chase the tennant out begins, they have a workable successful program ... from gentle proposals, to severe hassle, and if not successful eventual brutality, people (tennants) are of course not prepared to stay in a house for long given those circumstances' as a result they finally cancel the lease and are relieved at moving out.

In Thailand matters could be worse for farang tennants, so it would be wise for the leaseholder to do a deal with his Gf... support her in selling the house, agree on a financial settlement, say good by, and move on, live will remain save for him.

[donx]

The chanote is king, I'm with those who say that she can sell. Make sure you pay your rent on time to the new owner.

I don't think the OP needs to worry about paying rent on time to the new owner because I bet he already paid for the entire 30 year lease up front.

[personchester]

The chanote is king, I'm with those who say that she can sell. Make sure you pay your rent on time to the new owner.

I don't think the OP needs to worry about paying rent on time to the new owner because I bet he already paid for the entire 30 year lease up front.

No doubt the 30 year lease with his Gf. is rent free, after all he provided the money for the purchase, if 'she' finds a buyer, then the new owner must accept the rent free lease for all of the remaining years, obviously buying a house with a rent free 30 years lease makes no sense

The selling price of the house due to the 30 years rent free lease will be rather low, however, if 'she' does find a buyer, then the leaseholder must consider his position very carefully, since the new owner will certainly have a plan to get a return on his investment and he (the OP) will be the target.

To consider selling the house under the given circumstances makes no sense at all, since neither his Gf. nor the OP himself will benefit from it, i.e. 'she' the legal owner gets a very low price, and 'he' the leaseholder will face problems from the new owner therefore after a while he (the OP) will be more than happy to move out.

Conclusion, both agree to sell a lease free house at normal market price, and after the sale both agree on a fair and reasonable financial settlement, (approx: 60% in his favour) when all this is done then both move on to a new life.

Edited May 29, 2010 by personchester

[sarahsbloke]

Conclusion, both agree to sell a lease free house at normal market price, and after the sale both agree on a fair and reasonable financial settlement, (approx: 60% in his favour) when all this is done then both move on to a new life.

Interesting to see you think a lease in Thailand has little value.

I've come to that conclusion too.

Now if I could own property in Thailand, buy a 10 million property with 30 year leaseholder for 2 million, hire a hitman for 200,000bht.

(Do another hit on the inheritors if they didn't get the hint), how long would it take me to make 7 million?

Edited May 29, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Heng]

The chanote is king, I'm with those who say that she can sell. Make sure you pay your rent on time to the new owner.

I don't think the OP needs to worry about paying rent on time to the new owner because I bet he already paid for the entire 30 year lease up front.

I'm sure they'll come up with something unless ALL the bases are covered.

Or it might work out, who knows, might be a long time horizon buyer (and thus it'd be a win win situation). If I owned all the shophouses or plots in a row and was just missing one property before getting the 'Monopoly,' I'd be okay with waiting some time before getting a 'return,' as the next generation would benefit.

[jackdawson]

Stupid enough to make £130k in 3 years....and just about to make another £60k on a second property here.

one of the greatest things my ex , a very successful real estate broker taught me, was NEVER tell anyone how much money u make / made ; u NEVER know who's listening .

guess u missed that lessen .

[cangetman]

Stupid enough to make £130k in 3 years....and just about to make another £60k on a second property here.

one of the greatest things my ex , a very successful real estate broker taught me, was NEVER tell anyone how much money u make / made ; u NEVER know who's listening .

guess u missed that lessen .

nice one Jack top quote , it reminds me a lot about guys who claim to have a huge weener untill they are outed i wonder if our friend would care to tell us about his losses as well as his gains

[kikoman]

In Answering a post last week ,On the Rights of Superficies (section>1410 to 1416 of the Thai Civil and Commercial code) The last paragraph states LEARN MORE> Owning a building in Thailand separate from the land.

Titled:

Buy ,Sale, transfer of a Thai House or Building (Property Law)

In part the first paragraph states (As foreigners can't own the land)

The last paragraph states:

"Rights to own a house or building upon another man's land relates directly to the rights to use or possess his land if you loose your rights to the land (right of superficies, lease rights, right of usufruct) you loose the rights to own the building upon that land."

It seems to me you will needs to consult a lawyer, for the legal interpretation of the above paragraph.

Cheers:

.

[ESB7]

QUOTE (jackdawson @ 2010-05-29 19:38:49) QUOTE Stupid enough to make £130k in 3 years....and just about to make another £60k on a second property here.

one of the greatest things my ex , a very successful real estate broker taught me, was NEVER tell anyone how much money u make / made ; u NEVER know who's listening .

guess u missed that lessen .

nice one Jack top quote , it reminds me a lot about guys who claim to have a huge weener untill they are outed i wonder if our friend would care to tell us about his losses as well as his gains

Well I did in a way loose in the UK in the early nineties but as I held on to the property as it was my home, when I sold I had actually made a profit.

If someone has enough money they will buy regardless of what they could make on that money elsewhere unless that are not too bothered about their quality of life.

I am not bragging about how much I made, I am merely justifying buying a property in response to certain posters that say they made 30% or so in a year elsewhere...well yippee do da to them, so did I and more, by buying a HOME here....if you are going to buy overpriced gated community properties in a tourist resort like Phuket or Samui that have no aftersale market then you will surely loose money.

If you are sensible and build a property that is apppealing to the well off Thais from bangkok that are looking for a holiday home in an area like Cha am, then there is vast potential to make money.

[cangetman]

QUOTE (jackdawson @ 2010-05-29 19:38:49) QUOTE Stupid enough to make £130k in 3 years....and just about to make another £60k on a second property here.

one of the greatest things my ex , a very successful real estate broker taught me, was NEVER tell anyone how much money u make / made ; u NEVER know who's listening .

guess u missed that lessen .

nice one Jack top quote , it reminds me a lot about guys who claim to have a huge weener untill they are outed i wonder if our friend would care to tell us about his losses as well as his gains

Well I did in a way loose in the UK in the early nineties but as I held on to the property as it was my home, when I sold I had actually made a profit.

If someone has enough money they will buy regardless of what they could make on that money elsewhere unless that are not too bothered about their quality of life.

I am not bragging about how much I made, I am merely justifying buying a property in response to certain posters that say they made 30% or so in a year elsewhere...well yippee do da to them, so did I and more, by buying a HOME here....if you are going to buy overpriced gated community properties in a tourist resort like Phuket or Samui that have no aftersale market then you will surely loose money.

If you are sensible and build a property that is apppealing to the well off Thais from bangkok that are looking for a holiday home in an area like Cha am, then there is vast potential to make money.