Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[eurasianthai]

Whether you believe the red shirts to be right or wrong doesn't change the fact that ordinary Thai people want a better life for themselves and their families. If it takes a civil war to get there, that's sad.....when calling free and fair elections could have solved the problem with far less bloodshed and loss of life.

Some common sense in this very partisan thread, as far as most postings are concerned,...

Edited May 14, 2010 by eurasianthai

[khunjamespittman]

To those farangs who for the last two months have been calling for the use of lethal force I say be careful for what you wish for. You just might get it and you may not like the outcome.

There seems to be a deep seated hatred of The Red Shirts by many on the Forum, I wonder where they get all their news from on this site.

The Nation is so biased that it's absurd to think anybody would fall for their stories.

The Government propaganda machine has been working overtime, and many Farangs have jumped onto the bandwagon, whilst fiercely slamming the Redshirt propaganda machine

The hatred being spouted out by many Farangs here is quite astonishing.

I wonder how many Farangs will have been casualties of the Redshirt protests by way of heart attacks and burst blood vessels as they hammer away at their keyboards slagging each other off, solving all of Thailands problems as only Farangs know how to, with some good old keyboard advice safely tucked away in their condos or houses.

I think some you old timers should relax a little.

Thaksin was a proven fraud and tyrant before I ever picked up a Thai newspaper.

Wouldn't you agree that at least 95% of the posts on TV are crap pretending to be fact including what pretends to be news. That's the biggist fraud!

[SabaiBKK]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

The only ones that have sympathy for them are the reds themselves - like their fan club here - time for negotiation is over and I hope the government realizes that the only way to win this is to go full out and destroy them once and for all

Maybe you should study the situation a bit more. The majority of the Thai population supports the "red shirts". Let me say it again...the majority. That means over 50% of the population. Maybe you have not been out of the large tourist cities and into the rural areas where the majority of the Thai population lives.

you are totally dreaming ! I don't know what drugs you are on but it must be really strong and dangerous for the brain if you sincerely believe that reds have the approval of more than 15-25% of the 65 million Thais, and i"m being very generous with the percentage.

[noel2499rk]

Another journo shot. A Canadian Nelson Rand

http://www.france24.com/en/20100514-france...hes-nelson-rand

Is this the same Nelson Rand who wrote the book Conflict: Journeys through war and terror in Southeast Asia

[ChiangMaiFun]

You are not a very respectful guest here. You obviously would like to tell the Thais how to run their country. That's pretty arrogant of you. Why not go home? Maybe no one their respects you?

Will you get over the guest crap.

We live in Thailand. We support Thai families. We have Thai friends. We pay Thai taxes. We work with Thais. We employ Thais.

We are not guests.

Maybe on your next border run you will discover the door can close for you. You don't seem to comprehend that it doesn't matter if you work or pay taxes orhow many times you've renewed your visa. Everyone with a bank account pays taxes even if they are not residing in Thailand. Only when you have been granted Thai citizenship can you claim to be Thai. Where you reside temporarily only make you a temporary guest. You're visa only gave you a right to enter the country not a say in how it is run. Get over it. Face it, you're just visiting here!

If you don't like the rules, pack your bags and go back to your homeland.

I understand all of that very well. But GUESTS is still the wrong word for committed expats. Cheers.

well I agree you are 'committed' (or should be) - just kidding - we are guests or 'outsiders' if you prefer - we will NEVER be integrated and will always be seen as 'second class' to the wonderful 'Thai' they don't have the education or knowledge (mostly through lack of travel etc.) to understand differently - get use to it - guest you are guest you shall be - a rose by any other name...

[noel2499rk]

Picture of Nelson Rand being taken to hospital by redshirt ambulance.

http://twitpic.com/1nnc8l

[Mekhong]

Notice protesters are using sling shots and petrol bombs.

Army using live ammo and rubber bullets and tear gas.

Protestors dead (shot). Camera men shot. Civilians shot ?

Soldiers not ?

And they claim to be abiding by international rules ?

What's that, assassinate one red by sniper fire, poison others and then go on a rampage killing and maiming others with live ammo ? Not very "standard"......well not in my opinion.

1 protester dead today. Several policemen killed last Friday. Several army killed on 10 April.

And they claim to be peaceful democracy-seeking farmers?

[khunjamespittman]

yet another " we are only guest and not entitled to have an opinion " post YAWN!!!!!

They had to change tactics

The letters that spell "double standards" were worn out on their keyboards

It's a fact Sabai! When was the last time you showed your Thai ID card and voted? You can pump your self up with all your bravado but your opinion means nothing here except to your own ego.

[Chunky1]

1. Has the government successfully surrounded the protest site so that water and food cannot be brought in?

2. How much water/food do the protesters have stock piled?

3. What leaders are still taking the stage/around Central World?

Looks like this thing could drag into next week/eternity.

Edited May 14, 2010 by cdnvic

[hammered]

Notice protesters are using sling shots and petrol bombs.

Army using live ammo and rubber bullets and tear gas.

Protestors dead (shot). Camera men shot. Civilians shot ?

Soldiers not ?

And they claim to be abiding by international rules ?

What's that, assassinate one red by sniper fire, poison others and then go on a rampage killing and maiming others with live ammo ? Not very "standard"......well not in my opinion.

1 protester dead today. Several policemen killed last Friday. Several army killed on 10 April.

And they claim to be peaceful democracy-seeking farmers?

The blackshirts arent farmers. What (ex)farmers that are there are sitting around Racha Damri playing Thai chess during the day

[milograves]

Keep toting that Nation line everyone...

I love how so many people here honestly seem to think the only people in the country that have been 'brainwashed' are the reds. Certainly there is an element of uneducated people being brainwashed and taken advantage of to suite there higher political masters, but there are also very many people who truly believe in what there doing and have valid concerns. Everyone in this country (and you could argue everywhere in the world on different levels) is inundated with a different kind brainwashing propaganda from birth and dont forget it.

Also, cool it on the blood lust comments, I dont want to see people get killed on the streets of the city I live in and love no matter what and my apartment is inside the Ratchaprasong red zone, I work in Sala Dang and probably have dealt with this on a day to day level more than most of you. Keep a jai yen even when those around you dont na.

[Neilly]

You are not a very respectful guest here. You obviously would like to tell the Thais how to run their country. That's pretty arrogant of you. Why not go home? Maybe no one their respects you?

Will you get over the guest crap.

We live in Thailand. We support Thai families. We have Thai friends. We pay Thai taxes. We work with Thais. We employ Thais.

We are not guests.

+1 thanks for spelling that out so well...fed up reading time and time again same thing

[brahmburgers]

there is no need for "negotiations" with these war mongers at this point, round them up and punish them. they are keen on burning buses and inciting violence.

when I passed through the area about 1:00 pm I could feel the tension in the air. happy I got outta there in time before it really started up. Man oh man are the supporters just a bunch of filthy scrubs. you have to seem 'em and then you can't deny.

I believe it. Why aren't we hearing about or seeing pictures of scores of protesters in plastic handcuffs and being taken away to detention? Surely, security has grabbed at least some of the trouble makers.

3hrs of sunlight left before the spooks come out. Hoping the army are fully prepared. Thaksin wanting to negotiate a sign the reds are on the back-foot, or is he merely reading from the script...?

Well, Abhisit used the illusion of negotiations as a prelude to his murderous military offense against civilians. Might Thaksin stoop to Abhisit's level? Why not?

You can try valiantly to paint Abhisit as a boogie man, but fact remains, he's been incredibly nice thus far. Any other leader of a country in a similar situation would have taken much firmer measures. Abhisit's biggest fault is trying to be so nice for so long. Meanwhile, the Reds built up their fortifications and weaponry. It's like a staph infection. If you deal with it dynamically at its early stages it's a lot easier to eradicate then if you let it fester for weeks.

Thaksin is offering a plan, but it's like a leader of a mob who pretends he's not the leader, but all the while his underlings are strutting around like they're toughies. Then, when the Reds are losing big time (as they are now), the real Red leader comes out of the closet and proposes a plan which tries to turn the clock back to when there was an offer of early elections. Well, Mr. Thaksin, THAT PROPOSAL IS NO LONGER ON THE TABLE. There is no table, and you've got nothing to negotiate with. You're more of a nobody in this debacle than I am. At least I'm in Thailand and actively doing things to assist a dozen Thai neighbors (planting trees, developing properties), .....meanwhile, Mr. T, you're half a world away trying to cause as much mayhem for Thailand as one person can possibly do. Stay away, sir. Thailand doesn't want you or need you. You're fast becoming a has been, good for nothing creep.

[hammered]

yet another " we are only guest and not entitled to have an opinion " post YAWN!!!!!

They had to change tactics

The letters that spell "double standards" were worn out on their keyboards

It's a fact Sabai! When was the last time you showed your Thai ID card and voted? You can pump your self up with all your bravado but your opinion means nothing here except to your own ego.

Hey calm down man. This is just an expat forum where those obsessed with politics (me included) can spout off. We all know or at least I hope so that it means nothing in the big wide world. Same as at NM and all them other places. Blogland is like some pub where people can go and give their opinions uninformed or not to all and sundry. Sometimes rows even hjappen. Guess its better than a pub as no glassings or fights. Oh and Im sure no Thai person really gives a hoot wht we say on TV or NM or any other such place.

[animatic]

The red lose a great opportunity to grasp the roadmap - a HUGE mistake

and

Abhisit lose a great opportunity to LEAD and show he will not be bullied or pushed and stick to the election date - a GIGANTIC error

So what now...? chaos

I go with this one

I was also supporting the idea of the negotiation and roadmap. But we are only we are witnesses and not actors. Also, we do not have all the datas for understanding at 100% the underground situation. However, we should help to reduce the violence on both sides and the first thing to do is to avoid flaming at each other.

Obviously, there are some factors which push the Red Shirts to a tougher stance in spite their uncomfortable situation: we miss some points for a full understanding of what is going on.

Obviously also the risk is huge of third parties interfering in the coming hours.

There are two things important to survey in order the conflict is confirmed contained: is the Up Country entering one way or the other in the conflict? Are some Military Units joining the Reds? Obviously, the Reds have now a political support. it was also a key element in the development of the crisis.

To all Farangs supporters of any side, please avoid flaming in those circumstances: we can express different opinions with respect to each other.

Abhisit agreed to the election date, dissoloution and the roadmap

under the duress of an violent occupying force in downtown Bangkok.

The deal could have been made for 3rd try, but the Reds bolted the table.

Abhisit is under no obligation to stick to an agreement that was never agreed to.

He IS under an obligastion to the MAJORITY of Thai citizens to and this illegal occupation

of downtown Bangkok and the dislocations of untold numbers of Thais from work and

ability to earn aliving and get on with their lives.

Nobody wants violence, I suspect least of all Abhisit, based on his past actions and attempts to compromise,

but push has come to shove and the OTHER, larger, quieter, portion of the Thai public has made it's needs crystal clear.

And I do NOT mean the yellows.

[neverdie]

If only my garden grew like one of these threads AMAZING THAI VISA

[LuckyLew]

Notice protesters are using sling shots and petrol bombs.

Army using live ammo and rubber bullets and tear gas.

Protestors dead (shot). Camera men shot. Civilians shot ?

Soldiers not ?

And they claim to be abiding by international rules ?

What's that, assassinate one red by sniper fire, poison others and then go on a rampage killing and maiming others with live ammo ? Not very "standard"......well not in my opinion.

1 protester dead today. Several policemen killed last Friday. Several army killed on 10 April.

And they claim to be peaceful democracy-seeking farmers?

The blackshirts arent farmers. What (ex)farmers that are there are sitting around Racha Damri playing Thai chess during the day

Getting paid to play chess

pretty good gig if they do not get shot

[frodo]

The Nation: Leaders told #redshirts that they must not do things on their own & if they dont listen 2 leaders, they'd B considered 'fake' reds.

In other words, the leaders, even though they promised they would take all responsibility for their sheeple, cannot really control them. There is no such thing as a fake red. Once they've been brainwashed into blind hatred, the leaders are still responsible for every illegal action they have done. Nice try trying to deflect responsibility for what may happen this evening. At this point, there are no innocents.

[Netfan]

So we have someone who calls himself "khun" telling the rest of us we're not Thai :D

And other red supporters banding together to remind us we aren't Thai and never will be (what makes you think we don't know that?) and so we should just keep our fingers quiet and have no opinion?

Could it be that the end is near and the fact that the reds will be going home with nothing - no early election, Abhisit still PM, parliament still in session, Thaksin still in hiding - is beginning to settle in, and all they can fall back on is an issue that has nothing to do with, well, the issues?

[simcity]

Yes, (The) Clashes Continue (between members), Turning Central Bangkok (Thaivisa Forum) In Virtual Warzone

[whybother]

You are not a very respectful guest here. You obviously would like to tell the Thais how to run their country. That's pretty arrogant of you. Why not go home? Maybe no one their respects you?

Will you get over the guest crap.

We live in Thailand. We support Thai families. We have Thai friends. We pay Thai taxes. We work with Thais. We employ Thais.

We are not guests.

Maybe on your next border run you will discover the door can close for you. You don't seem to comprehend that it doesn't matter if you work or pay taxes orhow many times you've renewed your visa. Everyone with a bank account pays taxes even if they are not residing in Thailand. Only when you have been granted Thai citizenship can you claim to be Thai. Where you reside temporarily only make you a temporary guest. You're visa only gave you a right to enter the country not a say in how it is run. Get over it. Face it, you're just visiting here!

If you don't like the rules, pack your bags and go back to your homeland.

I'm not claiming to be Thai, but I plan to be residing here for a long time.

I am paying my way to be here. I am supporting other people here. I have family and friends here.

I have an opinion. This is a forum where I am allowed to express that opinion.

If you don't like farangs expressing their opinions about Thailand on a Thailand focussed web site, why do you bother reading it?

[lannarebirth]

I want to express my gratitude to ChiangMaiFun for being so inept as to fuc_k up every post he makes thereby making it impossible to make a reply. Otherwise I'd probably have been banned by now.

[Tejas]

1. Has the government successfully surrounded the protest site so that water and food cannot be brought in?

2. How much water/food do the protesters have stock piled?

3. What leaders are still taking the stage/around Central World?

Looks like this thing could drag into next week/eternity.

The lack of real coverage of the events is astonishing.......especially on Thai TV (what a joke).

[LivinLOS]

You're more of a nobody in this debacle than I am. At least I'm in Thailand and actively doing things to assist a dozen Thai neighbors (planting trees, developing properties),

Yeah sure BB, your 'tree planting' really wields far more power in Thailand than Thaksin can pull..

<deleted>.. Some egos..

[Beardog]

Whether you believe the red shirts to be right or wrong doesn't change the fact that ordinary Thai people want a better life for themselves and their families. If it takes a civil war to get there, that's sad.....when calling free and fair elections could have solved the problem with far less bloodshed and loss of life.

I would be with you on that train of thought, but what if they don't like choice b or c or d or e . Another uprising

Next scenario : can their ever be a fair election if everyone is buying the vote. This is not U.S. but I think it would have been a fair assessment that most of the people in the U.S. would have loved to give George Bush the heave ho. But it does not work like that in a true democracy. Since the newest PM was put in office under Thailand's parliamentary procedure it is in fact legitimate. Why the hel_l should he step down cause people are bellyaching. Besides it is all about Taksin's horde & not about democracy but again as usual the bought & paid for vote. As said before by many posters- they should have left TOXIN out of the loop & demonstrated peaceably for democracy & accept the offer that was given.

[on-on]

Hey calm down man. This is just an expat forum where those obsessed with politics (me included) can spout off. We all know or at least I hope so that it means nothing in the big wide world. Same as at NM and all them other places. Blogland is like some pub where people can go and give their opinions uninformed or not to all and sundry. Sometimes rows even hjappen. Guess its better than a pub as no glassings or fights. Oh and Im sure no Thai person really gives a hoot wht we say on TV or NM or any other such place.

The only way to glean anything even moderately interesting off of Thai Visa is to immediately skip any post that has words in all caps or in a big funny font or follows some idiotic double spaced single line declaration format - or in any way reeks of an attention-desperate person hyperventilating at his keyboard, mashing the keys angrily with spittle flying from his lips and closing every message with some pompous claim like "Case Closed!!!" There are some interesting posts in there, but the screaming drama queens really ruin most threads.

[neverdie]

Yes, (The) Clashes Continue (between members), Turning Central Bangkok (Thaivisa Forum) In Virtual Warzone

. Its amazing so many big egos fit in this one little forum

[neverdie]

The only way to glean anything even moderately interesting off of Thai Visa is to immediately skip any post that has words in all caps or in a big funny font or follows some idiotic double spaced single line declaration format - or in any way reeks of an attention-desperate person hyperventilating at his keyboard, mashing the keys angrily with spittle flying from his lips and closing every message with some pompous claim like "Case Closed!!!" There are some interesting posts in there, but the screaming drama queens really ruin most threads.

well said, sir

[Netfan]

The Nation: Leaders told #redshirts that they must not do things on their own & if they dont listen 2 leaders, they'd B considered 'fake' reds.

In other words, the leaders, even though they promised they would take all responsibility for their sheeple, cannot really control them. There is no such thing as a fake red. Once they've been brainwashed into blind hatred, the leaders are still responsible for every illegal action they have done. Nice try trying to deflect responsibility for what may happen this evening. At this point, there are no innocents.

The red leaders are getting creepier every time they open their mouths. For those of us who remember Jonestown, is this just a bit eerie? Or maybe a little too Charles Manson-ish?

THE NATION: (18.34) Rajprasong stage returns to normalcy and leaders told protesters not to be frightened. "The time hasnt arrived yet."

[GM1955]

If only my garden grew like one of these threads AMAZING THAI VISA

Your garden might grow better if you actually ever got away from your computer and went into the garden to tend it, your post count is scarey.

Even then you've probably got wifi and a netbook .