Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[LivinLOS]

The yellows went home after 9 days, without the need for violence and death. What about the reds?

Because they were given exactly what they wanted.. From Being allowed to occupy the airport.. To having the Government brought down..

Of course they went home happy.. Mission accomplished.

[bkkjames]

HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT B-DAY BKKJAMES!!! (given the circumstances)

Thanks but no cake tomorrow. Re the number 15 05 2010 1354 and the other ones. Someone figured out it was the gps coordinate very near Don Muang Airport. Time will tell I guess.

this has nothing to do with gps coordinates its 13H54 .... 01.54PM..... but i really don't buy this story ... we will see tomorrow

you are correct now that i just checked the link its 1353'53.25"N10035'47.79"E Google earth coordinates for Don Muang

[nontabury]

Whatever ... reds are getting their ass whupped

i certainly do not support thaksin, he's just a corrupt politician, but i do have a lot of sympathy for the red's and all the millions

of poor Thais, many of whom receive wages of 100-150 baht a day,and i am sick of reading farangs complain about the disruption to their

life and livelihood, can i ask those who criticise the poor to state their daily earnings.

[SabaiBKK]

Just to let you all know I did phone all of my friends above, and they are fine.

yep me too oy, nut, jee, bee, and koy phoned me, they are fine and we meet tonight at "jungle dance" on ramintra........ got to go btw I'm already late

Ciao!

[whiterussian]

I seriously doubt that 50% supports the reds. Perhaps close to that originally had sympathy for the protests, but my personal observation is that most of them now think it's enough, and especially that Abhisit's offer should have been accepted.

I observe the opposite.

The reds are getting louder and louder in CM. Even a mild mannered (red) Thai 'nun' is getting hot under the collar...

Was even given a red power fist salute by an old redshirt codger on a bike today - in a leper colony!!

Mind you, the yellows are also loud and proud... a lemon yellow jogger coexisting peacefully in my red moobaan... lots of folk wearing their 'colours' today.

If you think slaughtering their hero, and 20+/30/40 other 'reds' will reduce the popular vote...

Just what is the point in laying seige for one day, THEN going in with live weapons, without letting the effects of a seige kick in? Where is the PR value in that? Again the yellows look like a dictatorship...

Edited May 14, 2010 by whiterussian

[whybother]

How many times does these same old distortions have to be corrected ?

1/ Had the election not been held under what was in effect martial law in places, and had the army not spend millions on "re-education of the rural poor on how to vote", had the Democrats not been allowed to do whatever they want, then the PPP would have got many more votes and seats. There are allegations of vote rigging and many other things to try to keep the PPP numbers down.

2/ You fail to mention that the Democrats paid small parties to not take part in elections and also refused themselves, therefore that many seats that won with majority TRT votes against all total no votes/other parties were simply invalidated as no other party run. The Democrats plan to stop TRT winning - by abusing the electoral system.

Perhaps if you would stop distorting the truth by selectively missing much out and start admitting how corrupt the Democrats appear to have been and how since 2006 until now there has been systematic abuse of the systems of media and control and justice in Thailand.

How did martial law affect people's ability to vote?

When you say "had the Democrats not been allowed to do whatever they want", do you mean the reds had to let them campaign freely?

Can you give any sources, details, or even just an idea of what "allegations of vote rigging and many other things to try to keep the PPP numbers down" there was?

The Democrats decided not to stand in an election. Is it law that a party has to stand? The decided that Thaksin had rigged the election, and that he had called the election (only 12 months after the previous election) to whitewash the sale of HIS company to foreign interests (which he had changed laws as PM to allow).

Thaksin couldn't even get 20% in some seats were there was no opposition. And in others he had people to "campaign" against him so that he had an opposition to defeat. So it was hardly a fair election.

Did the systematic abuse of the media also occur during the PPP's watch?

These are the things you selectively missed out. What did I miss?

[TheCowboyKid]

Wow ... a "the yellows did it first" argument. That's original.

.

No- it's not at all original- in fact it is one of the points that the reds descended on Bangkok to make- that those who would disturb orderly society in the interests of the the more reactionary elements of society will be treated with immunity while those who seek a more equitable society will suffer from double standards.

As long as clowns like Kasit can lecture foreign diplomats on the evils of illegal demonstrations = as long as nobody from the gov't house/airport occupations has been held to account- then the reds feel that with every drop of 'red' blood shed, the point is being made that there exist in this country, double standards.

Whether or not you agree with that analysis is beside the point- the point is that this is the perception. The problem is how to change that perception- and simply pounding the table and saying- you're wrong- probably won't be enough.

The aim of the red leadership from day one has been to have blood shed- so that they could prove to all Thailand- and the world- that Thailand has no sense of social equitability.

Now before you attack me as the bearer of uncomfortable news- you don't know how I regard either the means or the ends- because it doesn't matter.But if this problem is going to be solved then first we must understand what the problem is.

If you can convince the reds that the yellows deserve to be treated with a leniency that the reds won't be (in their estimation) accorded- then - the whole country will thank you. If not, all that's left is opinion. And really - who cares. What is needed now is some very serious analysis of the culture, the history- recent as well as not so recent- and the divide in social perceptions.

The yellows went home after 9 days, without the need for violence and death. What about the reds?

You would probably find many of the anti-reds on here agree with some of the reds issues, but not the leaders or the way they are going about getting their message across. In fact, they got their message across 6 weeks ago.

And what happened to my question about how the past PMs have been elected? That's a key problem with the reds - there misunderstanding of how the electoral system works in this country.

Then yellows occupied governmt house for 8 months

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but this type of discussion over how the yellow is treated versus how the reds are treated is exactly what leads to this continuing saga in the country. Just because one person commits murder and gets 5 years and another commits murder and gets the death penalty does not mean that we should stop prosecuting murder or that we should legalize it all together. Saying that someone else did something and didn't get in trouble so I should be able to do it to is pretty juvenile. That is an argument that my brother used to no avail with my parents. Just because someone else might get away with something does not make it right.

[LevelHead]

5 grenades just shot at soldiers at Rajaprasong. 5 minutes of shooting followed. Then another grenade, now sporadic fire.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, is AUA open today?

I am going to go get a drink at the outdoor nana bar.

I really do think this thing could become all out war.

It was a real bad idea to assasinate the red General.

Now the Reds might assassinate some pro Regime Generals.

It could be open season on all generals.

Thai's are very much into revenge.

Its said the Yellow Army Colonel blown up on the 10th was targeted as he led the anti-red crackdown in 2009.

Now Yellow revenge is to kill SD.

So SD's "men" will now enact revenge, but at a much higher level, on the Yellow army persons.

It could easily now turn into something very much bigger, the snowball has been launched off of the top of the mountain it seems.

[BarryM]

5 grenades just shot at soldiers at Rajaprasong. 5 minutes of shooting followed. Then another grenade, now sporadic fire.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, is AUA open today?

I am going to go get a drink at the outdoor nana bar.

I really do think this thing could become all out war.

It was a real bad idea to assasinate the red General.

Now the Reds might assassinate some pro Regime Generals.

It could be open season on all generals.

Do you think they'd run out of Generals?

[MartinBKK]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

So, you can't understand half of the population. That is not surprising. I've met Red-supporters, rich and poor and middle class, actually I've known many for years. They are good people who, frightening to some, support greater democracy and less military intervention in Thai politics. I've met a few Yellows too and some are also good people. The most rabid yellows seem to be the farangs who are unnecessarily afraid of being lifted off their pedestal.

Half the population ???????????

You are living in a fantasy world you ....... little red .......

It's actually quite a few more than half, as you will see at the next election.

[ajarnbangkapi]

I am going to express my opinion as to why all this is happening. I will not reply to any comments on my opinion.

In order to place my opinion in perspective, please consider the following.

I have lived in Thailand for 21 years. I originally was invited to come as a technical expert. I am fluent in spoken and written Thai at the post-graduate level. From 1990-2000, I worked in 72 provinces on projects for the Ministries of Interior, Public Health, Education, and Communications, mostly in very rural areas.

In addition to my technical background, I have an MA in Religion, concentration in Buddhism. I have spent 3 years in monasteries, both in Thailand and my home country.

I lived in Issan for 11 years, and for the past 10 years have lived in Bangkok. In Issan, I used to attend the monthly meetings of my city's "informal" governing committee - the mayor, the provincial police chief, an army general, and 5 businessmen. In Bangkok, when I worked on government projects, I used to attend functions hosted by by the Royal Family.

The anti-government movement is largely funded directly or indirectly by Thaksin's clan. The balance is proved by certain other Sino-Thai business clans.

The goal of the Thaksin group is to attain control of Thailand once an inevitable event occurs.

Given that there is a kingdom at stake, the group is spending vast amounts of money in order to foment and sustain an insurrection.

Because so much already has been spent, the group cannot accept defeat; therefore, they now will employ any and all tactics in order to win.

The situation is complicated by the fact that the group's appointed local leadership are rapidly losing control over the entity that they have created.

Harold, I have refrained from posting for several reasons, but the sanity and clarity in your post have temporarily stirred me from lurkville. As another long time resident who is now out of the Kingdom I am aware of some other motivational factors at work that are not constructive to post, but considering the venue, that was a brillant post. Thanks for your insights, they are welcomed by all that have had the opportunity to see them.

[SabaiBKK]

Reports on Thai television about army and red shirts joining up. Not sure if it's just one group of the army or what's happening.

It could happen........ this is where civil war suddenly becomes much more likely, and in this event (if it were to happen) Yellow/Elite will lose and will be wiped out unless they all jump on places and leave the country.

The shooting of SD and the crackdown might be the step over the edge.......... its very worrying.

It is likely a lot of Isaan based Taharn Prahn (rather than southern or north western) were always with the reds due to loyalty to certain figures. The police stuff is harder to tell. A lot of black guards have police body protection with police written on it so it probably needs confirmation. It will all come out at some point.

I play BB Gun a lot and those "police protections" are sold to any civilians in chinatown , or they could have taken them from policemen on April 10 .........

[Jerrytheyoung]

" Il faut savoir raison garder"

Very famous old proverb. (meaning: You must keep a blood cool and not give way to your passions).

True, part of us are close to Red Shirts, because we have a social feeling.

True, part of us are close to Government because they have business, responsabilities and they fear the consequences of the unrest

True, we are farangs and only observers, witnesses as we are not citizen of this Country. However we have a freedom of expression and we can give an opinion.

True, tomorrow we will have to live with Red, Yellow, Democrats....thai Citizens. Most are nice people even if I disagree with their opinions.

True, being a special Guest because I live with them and share the everyday life, I have to respect them even if they are not of my opinion.

Too much flaming, too much irrespect, too much arrogance from some farangs. We have to control our passions "et raison garder". We may need each other independantly of the "Colour' of our opinions.

Regards

Jerrytheyoung

[GAS]

I know this is just a rumor, but from a credible source, supposedly Thaksin ordered Seh Daeng to kill the other Red Shirt leaders 3 days ago, (I guess for agreeing to compromise?) and word is it was a 22 with a scope from a building that caught SD. My money is on SD being taken out by a faction inside the red camp.

[asiantraze]

Wow ... a "the yellows did it first" argument. That's original.

.

No- it's not at all original- in fact it is one of the points that the reds descended on Bangkok to make- that those who would disturb orderly society in the interests of the the more reactionary elements of society will be treated with immunity while those who seek a more equitable society will suffer from double standards.

As long as clowns like Kasit can lecture foreign diplomats on the evils of illegal demonstrations = as long as nobody from the gov't house/airport occupations has been held to account- then the reds feel that with every drop of 'red' blood shed, the point is being made that there exist in this country, double standards.

Whether or not you agree with that analysis is beside the point- the point is that this is the perception. The problem is how to change that perception- and simply pounding the table and saying- you're wrong- probably won't be enough.

The aim of the red leadership from day one has been to have blood shed- so that they could prove to all Thailand- and the world- that Thailand has no sense of social equitability.

Now before you attack me as the bearer of uncomfortable news- you don't know how I regard either the means or the ends- because it doesn't matter.But if this problem is going to be solved then first we must understand what the problem is.

If you can convince the reds that the yellows deserve to be treated with a leniency that the reds won't be (in their estimation) accorded- then - the whole country will thank you. If not, all that's left is opinion. And really - who cares. What is needed now is some very serious analysis of the culture, the history- recent as well as not so recent- and the divide in social perceptions.

The yellows went home after 9 days, without the need for violence and death. What about the reds?

You would probably find many of the anti-reds on here agree with some of the reds issues, but not the leaders or the way they are going about getting their message across. In fact, they got their message across 6 weeks ago.

And what happened to my question about how the past PMs have been elected? That's a key problem with the reds - there misunderstanding of how the electoral system works in this country.

No, they don't have a misunderstanding of the electoral system. They are pushing for an election, right? This is simply because they know that their master has a lot of money to disbursed especially in the countryside where there are lots of poor people who have votes ready to be bought. We have all seen them travelling from very far places especially during the past weekends in order to grab what they have been promised. Lots of people are talking about the price. How much? Is it a 2000-baht ride to Ratchaprasong or Silom? Well, that is what others have seen in videos uploaded everywhere in the net.

[Tigs]

HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT B-DAY BKKJAMES!!! (given the circumstances)

Thanks but no cake tomorrow. Re the number 15 05 2010 1354 and the other ones. Someone figured out it was the gps coordinate very near Don Muang Airport. Time will tell I guess.

this has nothing to do with gps coordinates its 13H54 .... 01.54PM..... but i really don't buy this story ... we will see tomorrow

you are correct now that i just checked the link its 1353'53.25"N10035'47.79"E Google earth coordinates for Don Muang

bkkjames

How many times do you have to be told? Needforspeed, is taking the pi**. The movie is called 'Knowing', here is a link to a review.

Knowing

Will you stop pulling the thread off track with this bullsh*t.

Can we please have a smiley of banging your head against a brick wall!!

[bendejo]

...

If my memory serves me the PAD also had a protective cordon of used sanitary towels round government house, perhaps Sondhi's car was similarly equipped?

Is that why the reds felt that had to bring blood?

[frodo]

People say freedom of expression doesn't exist here.

[whybother]

Then yellows occupied governmt house for 8 months

They were at government house for 8 months before they went to the airports.

Being at government house affected the government. It didn't affect the economy. It wasn't until they went to the airport that they affected the economy, and they were only there for 9 days, without 40 people dead and thousands injured.

(I'm not saying what the yellows did was good thing. Someone else brought up the "but the yellows ...".)

[asiantraze]

I know this is just a rumor, but from a credible source, supposedly Thaksin ordered Seh Daeng to kill the other Red Shirt leaders 3 days ago, (I guess for agreeing to compromise?) and word is it was a 22 with a scope from a building that caught SD. My money is on SD being taken out by a faction inside the red camp.

Highly possible...This is a story of greed and believing in the devil.

[Siam Simon]

"The soldiers just opened up on everyone. Old people, women, ambulance crews."

This a tweet from Time journalist Andrew Marshall on the scene now.

http://twitter.com/Journotopia

Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

I hope you enjoy your omelet

Ugh! Disgusting! He reminds me of another right wing nutter who also used to post several dozen times a day in the News Clippings section, the one who tried to explain away the Tak Bai massacre as an army logistics issue. 'Plus', I think his posting name was.

[Rideau]

The Reds and their supporters have proven time and again that they are militants and supporters of violence, not peaceful protesters. The government has every right to crack them down and decapitate the militant leaders.

[justasken]

The government says NO election after saying yes.

They kill a Thai General who was pro Red.

They do so next to a Wall Street Journal reporter during the interview.

They are trying to scare the media out.

BUT

Assassinations can go both ways.

Might I suggest a new movie?

"Bangkok REALLY Dangerous"

We can have sex, violence, assasinations, sex, reds killing, SEX, yellows killing, sex, and the fall of a regime with more SEX!

[bkkjames]

no need to worry mate, i know it may comfort you to have a go at me. if you check that link, i was taking the piss out of him the whole time.

anyways, lets hope its all just a bad bad groundhog day for him. feel better now?

back to the red shirts, if i saw a few more like those gals that were posted a few back, i might go join them.

[bassep]

Peace cannot be obtained without the use of arms and force. ...

yeah, then that Gahndi fellow must not have known anything ,huh?

[whybother]

Half the population ???????????

You are living in a fantasy world you ....... little red .......

It's actually quite a few more than half, as you will see at the next election.

How do they go from 40% of the votes in the last election to more than 50% in the next election, with everything that they have done to ruin the economy and peoples lives over the last 6-8 weeks?

[redparrot]

I fear that by tomorrow morning, we'll have some very bad and devastating news.

[bendejo]

Have just watched Redshirts spokesman Sean Boonpracong (ironically wearing a white shirt) being interviewed on Al Jazeera. He was like a little boy, smiling, smirking and acting like a naughty adolescent. The Al Jazeera called his bluff and said something like, "given the circumstances and number of people killed, it's strange that you should be laughing about this". Sean just smiked and squirmed some more, with a pathetic answer that totally avoided the point. He could not explain either, why the "peaceful Reds" were coming out of their barricades and throwing projectiles and firing slingshots at the troops.

If this is the guy that Reds hold up to the world as their spokesman, then their credibility and any drip of sympathy that may have remained, will not have evaporated totally. They are heading for embarassing oblivion I'm afraid now. Failed to see the wide open chance they had to give in with a shred of credibility and now want to fight to the end. Apart from their cowardly leaders, who will slip away at the crucial moments, leaving their drones to take the rap. Sad, v. sad.

The interviewer was good, didn't let this guy slide with his lousy answers. This bozo seems to be the official red rep for Al Jaz. TS knows the value of having stupid people at his disposal.

[justasken]

Peace cannot be obtained without the use of arms and force. ...

yeah, then that Gahndi fellow must not have known anything ,huh?

Ghandi?

The regime would simply shoot him in the head.

How is that peaceful protest working in Myanmar?

[Slaps]

I am going to express my opinion as to why all this is happening. I will not reply to any comments on my opinion.

In order to place my opinion in perspective, please consider the following.

I have lived in Thailand for 21 years. I originally was invited to come as a technical expert. I am fluent in spoken and written Thai at the post-graduate level. From 1990-2000, I worked in 72 provinces on projects for the Ministries of Interior, Public Health, Education, and Communications, mostly in very rural areas.

In addition to my technical background, I have an MA in Religion, concentration in Buddhism. I have spent 3 years in monasteries, both in Thailand and my home country.

I lived in Issan for 11 years, and for the past 10 years have lived in Bangkok. In Issan, I used to attend the monthly meetings of my city's "informal" governing committee - the mayor, the provincial police chief, an army general, and 5 businessmen. In Bangkok, when I worked on government projects, I used to attend functions hosted by by the Royal Family.

The anti-government movement is largely funded directly or indirectly by Thaksin's clan. The balance is proved by certain other Sino-Thai business clans.

The goal of the Thaksin group is to attain control of Thailand once an inevitable event occurs.

Given that there is a kingdom at stake, the group is spending vast amounts of money in order to foment and sustain an insurrection.

Because so much already has been spent, the group cannot accept defeat; therefore, they now will employ any and all tactics in order to win.

The situation is complicated by the fact that the group's appointed local leadership are rapidly losing control over the entity that they have created.

Harold, I have refrained from posting for several reasons, but the sanity and clarity in your post have temporarily stirred me from lurkville. As another long time resident who is now out of the Kingdom I am aware of some other motivational factors at work that are not constructive to post, but considering the venue, that was a brillant post. Thanks for your insights, they are welcomed by all that have had the opportunity to see them.

2 Good posts