Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[LivinLOS]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

From how it looks to me, he was wearing a BLACK shirt and NO green armband to signify he was with the media, and he was moving around amongst other protesters.

The conscripts are in the midst an urban battle - there's a lot of confusion and chaos as it without innocent people getting mixed in. I think he should have known better when deciding what to wear. The conscripts are not particularly well trained and under enormous pressure being in this situation with similarly dressed people firing off different types of weaponry at them.

I didn't see anything to suggest the army KNEW he was a foreign reporter. Definitely not at that distance either.

I am not making an excuse for the army... it was unacceptable. But haven't seen anything to suggest he was targeted because he was a journalist. More like they failed in properly identifying a threat and having effective fire control.

He should have freaken known to wear something different.

But soldiers are only firing into the air or in self defense right ??

So exactly what mortal threat did this unarmed man present while rolling around on the floor begging for help ??

Not only self defense i think they have the authority to shoot any person who is illegally armed.

OK so what 'arms' did this western journalist have then ??

The only one was the one they shot him in !!

[whybother]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

No he was assured by the government that the soldiers were only shooting in self defence.. As he presented no threat at all, was unarmed, etc what were they defending themselves from ?

He was inbetween a red mob and the army shooting at each other. Did he think he was bullet proof?

Was he targeted? Was he hit by a stray bullet? Was he hit by schrapnel?

[BKjohn]

You can not win a war by being sensible to the media. In a war there is collateral damage which is unavoidable. By being afraid of the media and public perception, you only prolong the war and subsequently there will be more collateral damage than would otherwise.

This is the reason why politicians should not be involved in any war situation, but the professionals should be in command to quickly and effectively overcome the situation here and bring the country back to normal.

Unfortunately the current high command seems to be more interested in his retirement than in doing his job.

Yes, I agree with this.

Journalists and all non-combatants should be restricted to outside the area. The security forces should make a clean sweep of the area using necessary force. THEN the investigations should begin about who did what and whether it was justified or not.

Trial by media in the middle of a battle is only going to end up with more people getting hurt.

If you don't think a war cannot be won or lost due to the media ... take a look at Vietnam vs. USA and how Nixon treated the press.

There is a reason the US embedded reporters with troops in Iraq. The number of civilians killed in Iraq are mind blowing but you never heard the numbers from the mainstream media. This is one thing the US got right in that war and that was making reporters feel as the soldiers do as well as feeling attached to those units.

jc this is correct, but I think we are looking at a very different situation here. While the press attached to the units in Iraq were seasoned professionals, here we are talking more about amateurs who become brainwashed by the red propaganda themselves and having no idea of how to behave in a dangerous situation thus getting their asses shot off.

Apparently this guy was near a group of Thai brain amputees who were pointing laser pointers at the soldiers, provoking fire. From a soldiers point of view, when you notice a laser pointing at you, it would normally be a guns laser optics and you will get shot if you do not react quickly. Accuracy has to become secondary to fast response.

[moetownblues]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

No he was assured by the government that the soldiers were only shooting in self defence.. As he presented no threat at all, was unarmed, etc what were they defending themselves from ?

The truth

[jcbangkok]

THE NATION: Thai PBS: Few reporters remain at Rajprasong stage. Weng called on reporters to return, saying guards will guarantee their safety

[deathabovered]

Jerrytheyoung:

Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because of manipulations to create a coalition with a majority, even if it seems "legal".IMHO, the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is to give back power to people immediately: immediate dissolution of parliament and elections.

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence, but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

Come on Jerry 'fess up. You are really Thaksin in disguise right?

No I am not a supporter of Thaksin even if I have some sympathy for the Poor mob of Issan. I just see the gearing in which we are engaged, and that violence will reply to violence. With a large part of the Country supporting the Red Shirts, we are directly heading to an uncontrollable situation and before it happens better to stop the massacre and give give back power to the Nation (Before it is split in 2 blocks). Better to solve the issues by vote than by weapons.

I am against the killings from both sides.

"stop the massacre and give back power to the Nation"

So you're suggesting give in to the violence. Let a protest of a few thousand, many paid, people to bring down a government?

Okay a joke is a joke, but would you really give power to the NATION, why let them not share it with BANGKOK POST?????

[danols]

I live inside the 'barricades' (Langsuan) and am pretty keen on leaving Bangkok til things settle down since i am prisoner in my own home at the moment

Any advice on the best way to make an escape form Langsuan would be appreciated.

Whats the best point of exit? Mode of transport. What roads are closed etc

Thanks

[monkeycircus]

video 1 - journalist caught in crossfire. you cannot see the people shooting him, how far away they are, or guess at their intentions. calling it attempted murder is nonsense - this is the inevitable result of indiscriminate firing. if he was being picked off he would of been shot as he was running away.

video 2 - you do not see what happened to that soldier lying on the ground. there was a gunshot. there is a soldier unconscious. no soldier fatalaties have been reported. if you say you know what happened in that video you are lying.

[canuckamuck]

"Nelson Rand is an ................................................................................

................................................................................

.

................................................................................

.

................................................................................

.

.

His audacious journey also took him to southern Thailand in search of Islamic extremists, who have turned the region into a war zone.

While travelling in Cambodia, he accompanied government soldiers on their final offensive against the Khmer Rouge. Rand's book is a highly informative but sobering portrait of Southeast Asia and its secret conflicts."

Its a very informative book actually and an easy read I can recommend it.

WHICH HIDDEN CONFLICTS RU TALKING ABOUT, KHMER ROUGE DID IT OPENLY,VIETNAM WAS NO SECRET,THE CHINESE,MUSLIMS,LAOS AND THAIS DO it OPENLY, EVEN THAKSIN let 1000ths BE KILLED IN THE OPEN.

SO WHAT SECRETS DO WE NOT KNOW ABOUT!!!!!!!

There is plenty of persecution of minorities in Vietnam, Laos, and especially Burma that does not make it to the western press.

[agord]

Justasken said: If the Reds win and find out you were posting pro regime hate posts, they will lock you up or worse.

Many people don't like the reds for this reason. They don't seem interested in freedom of speech and use bullying and intimidation tactics. Even your own post could be seen as being intimidating to posters on TV making people scared to speak their thoughts.

Are you proud of that?

That line also caught my attention but I think somehow he was trying to make a point about the current situation and the clamp-down on red media.

I think it shows that the poster is either retarded or did not stop to think about what he was posting before doing so? Just stop and think about it - red come into power (not going to happen) and then go on a hunting trip for expats posting their opinions on this website? This would play out so well on their side eh 100's or 1,000's of expats locked up in Thailand for posting their opinions on TV hahaha

Really didn't think this through did he? or ask himself why he would support such a group he believes would carry this out? Yes the red shirt SS coming to TV and making a list LMAO! what a tool!

[Jerrytheyoung]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

[ETatBKK]

If you want to know the real problem with politics in Thailand when it comes to the masses ... simply ask Thais under 40 year old what they know about the Vietnam War or ask all what they can tell you about WW I or II. I am not saying to ask them details of any sort but find out if they even know these things took place.

now sadly, the people still on the street, the people who pumping energy for the violence, they carry a superior mission - fight for the democracy, fight for the country !

indeed, put a picture of Vietnam war, a picture of families re-union from the North Korean, it is the time for Thai to choose, for those still have intelligent to choose ! provoke violence, is not the solution for today, neither for the country many years ahead !

[jcbangkok]

You can not win a war by being sensible to the media. In a war there is collateral damage which is unavoidable. By being afraid of the media and public perception, you only prolong the war and subsequently there will be more collateral damage than would otherwise.

This is the reason why politicians should not be involved in any war situation, but the professionals should be in command to quickly and effectively overcome the situation here and bring the country back to normal.

Unfortunately the current high command seems to be more interested in his retirement than in doing his job.

Yes, I agree with this.

Journalists and all non-combatants should be restricted to outside the area. The security forces should make a clean sweep of the area using necessary force. THEN the investigations should begin about who did what and whether it was justified or not.

Trial by media in the middle of a battle is only going to end up with more people getting hurt.

If you don't think a war cannot be won or lost due to the media ... take a look at Vietnam vs. USA and how Nixon treated the press.

There is a reason the US embedded reporters with troops in Iraq. The number of civilians killed in Iraq are mind blowing but you never heard the numbers from the mainstream media. This is one thing the US got right in that war and that was making reporters feel as the soldiers do as well as feeling attached to those units.

jc this is correct, but I think we are looking at a very different situation here. While the press attached to the units in Iraq were seasoned professionals, here we are talking more about amateurs who become brainwashed by the red propaganda themselves and having no idea of how to behave in a dangerous situation thus getting their asses shot off.

Apparently this guy was near a group of Thai brain amputees who were pointing laser pointers at the soldiers, provoking fire. From a soldiers point of view, when you notice a laser pointing at you, it would normally be a guns laser optics and you will get shot if you do not react quickly. Accuracy has to become secondary to fast response.

Understand but the military needs to have areas for reporters where they can connect to the net, feel safe and get updates AND get refreshments as well as be given safe access to the conflict. If they do this, the reporting will be slanted towards them as they will see the military as humane, helpful and upfront.

The reds failed at this but they also got a lot of amature reporters on their side because they welcomed them with smiles, free food and gifts as they did all farangs who entered their camp early on. They made themselves appear as caring people instead of the illegal violent mob they are.

[schmutzie]

ThaiPBS is showing English language training. MCOT cartoons.

Can anyone point me at an online news streamer that's actually concerned with the current events?

BTW, when's the last time we've heard anything from Abhisit/Suthep? I would have expected a national address from the PM last night.

[OzMick]

Civilised nations do not shoot protesters!!

I understand the pros and cons. But do not shoot protesters. You're going back into the dark ages.

Many (probably most) army people in BKK puke at the thought of what they are being asked to do.

Do you honestly think the Redshirts are being overly violent ??? There were a 100,000 of these people not so long ago. Think of the mayhem they could have caused. They didn't !!!

Sure if the army shoot real bullets into you, you are going to be pretty angry.

Vested interests don't care a toss.

do not shoot protesters!! give them your gun and let them shoot you!

Do you honestly think the Redshirts are being overly violent ??? why don't you ask the army guy in the video?

Give up the peaceful protester crap. This is a violent mob. Anybody who is really a peaceful protester can put their hands over their heads and go home, come back next week.

True, they may get shot, but not by the army.

The rest can get pretty angry, and they can get shot by real bullets. 2 choices, take your pick.

[whybother]

I live inside the 'barricades' (Langsuan) and am pretty keen on leaving Bangkok til things settle down since i am prisoner in my own home at the moment

Any advice on the best way to make an escape form Langsuan would be appreciated.

Whats the best point of exit? Mode of transport. What roads are closed etc

Thanks

Walk. Wear bright clothing.

Head towards Ploenchit and Suhkumvit. It's close, and there hasn't been reports of problems down that end.

If it looks dangerous, head the other direction through Ratchaprasong to Siam square and MBK.

The clashes seem to be on either side - Rama IV and Petchaburi.

[retdson]

=====================================================================

An injured person with a weapon is more dangerous than one that can retreat and run away

I agree if the have a white flag becareful

But we learnt the hard way that it could be a trap during the Vietnam way

Its easy for all you computer savy louches to tell young soldiers what to do when they face a violent mob

But as I can say

"Been there done that"

I have the right to say they are doing the best that the circumstance put them under

If you want to know the real problem with politics in Thailand when it comes to the masses ... simply ask Thais under 40 year old what they know about the Vietnam War or ask all what they can tell you about WW I or II. I am not saying to ask them details of any sort but find out if they even know these things took place.

This a very true point. I can remember teaching a class of 20 something middle class Thais (this was about 10 years ago) and not one of them had heard of Pol Pot. Not a clue who he was!

What's the saying about people who don't know history being doomed to repeat it? Not saying that we're back in Cambodia 1975 quite yet - but the footage

could have straight out Phnom Penh 1974, or Lebanon in 1977, or Bosnia 1991. Stuff like this is the harbinger of civil war.

[Ireland2010]

I am niether red nor yellow as I said. If speaking out against inhuman acts of shooting people who are injured or waving a white flag in surrender makes me a red in your eyes then so be it. If this happened in afaganistan and an American, Aust or brit soldier shot a surrendering person they would be brought up on wars crimes. It is the acts I am commenting on not the colour the person is wearing. Tell me truely in your heart if you really believe shooting injured and surrending people is justified regardless of where it is happening.

I understand the sentiment of your comment, and I don't mean to nit pick, however Americans don't "do" American soldier war crimes. Bob Kerrey, a former senator, who led a seven man team of Navy seals into a village in Vietnam and murdered over a dozen innocent women and children in cold blood, is now the celebrated president of a University in Nebraska for christ sake. Back to your point though, it is indeed inhumane, it's all inhumane, all of it. None of this benefits anybody, there are only losers all round. When this is all set and done the reality of it will become clear... Thai people will have killed a lot of Thai people and this moment in history will be one of shame for all Thais.

[deathabovered]

NEXT TIME SOMEONE SPOT "THE MEN IN BLACK" COULD YOU ASK THEM AN AUTOGRAPH??

MY WIFE IS A BIG FAN OF WILL SMITH AND I WANT TO SURPRISE HER

[jefro]

I live inside the 'barricades' (Langsuan) and am pretty keen on leaving Bangkok til things settle down since i am prisoner in my own home at the moment

Any advice on the best way to make an escape form Langsuan would be appreciated.

Whats the best point of exit? Mode of transport. What roads are closed etc

Thanks

Can you get to the roof and call a helicopter ?

[cdnvic]

If your post contains personal attacks, or inflammatory remarks they have been/will be deleted. If they contain references, veiled, or not, to any members of The Thai Royal Family or the institution of The Monarchy you will be suspended without further notice. This involves a very serious point of Thai law and it's not up for discussion.

[OzMick]

@Khun-Nick

Seems like the gun went of by accident, I just hope the bullet went into the truck and not the soldier.

REALLY! Accidental discharge. Just guessing, but when you rush someone into an ambulance, it probably means that he got shot. Which also means that the whole mob caught on video are guilty en masse of a serious crime, with a possible death penalty. That probably hasn't occurred to them yet, but it will.

[deathabovered]

@Justasken said: If the Reds win and find out you were posting pro regime hate posts, they will lock you up or worse.

And what will happen if they don't and you go to Beergarden or Soi cowboy and other expats find >>>

@ moderaters!! this is not a threat, just a warning!!

Edited May 15, 2010 by deathabovered

[toptuan]

webfact

Today, 2010-05-15 08:00:27

Group: Admin

Posts: 11,133

Joined: 2003-02-11

Member No.: 327

3 injured as van trying to clash through security checkpoint at Makkasan

A van was speeding to the security checkpoint under the Airport Link Makkasan station at about 30 minutes after midnight, prompting troops to fire at it.

After the van was stopped because of the firing, troops found three persons inside. They were severely injured with bullet wounds. One of them is a boy, who appears to be 10 years old.

The driver has apparently drunk.

-- The Nation 2010-05-15

From the Sat update thread.

Abhisit as PM allows army to shoot children.

Disgraceful.

Well they are shooting kids now, but no doubt its done to "international standards" ? !! Disgrace.

Here we see the genesis of propaganda, take an incident and and pass it through the spin machine until the result it's so unconnected, distorted and biased that it's unrecognizable.

A van speeds into a checkpoint, gets fired on and then it's found that there was a child inside.

SPIN MACHINE

Abhisit, himself personally, allows children to be shot.

This is the kind of crap that gets fed to the masses from the red stages and media, no wonder people are angry when they start to believe the spin as the truth.

This "Abhisit as PM allows army to shoot children" falls in place into the parallel reality of the red shirts, to prop up their narrative of the poor masses rising against the elites against a bloodthirsty, tyrannical, unelected government.

Shame on you LevelHead, your spinning is part of a larger machine put in motion to bring in civil unrest for the benefit of a few power hungry individuals. Twist facts or downright lie to inflame the masses into an unthinking frenzy and push for extremism.

Well-said! LevelHead's comment was fear-mongering at its most disgusting.

"LevelHead" is apparently anything but...

[F4UCorsair]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a democratically elected government, isn't it??

If so, and the red shirts are permitted to dictate the terms, that means that they, or any other similar group, can do so at any time in the future.

For that reason, and perhaps a hundred others, but that in particular, the red shirts cannot be permitted to triumph, and if that means that every one of them is killed, then so be it.

[jcbangkok]

Civilised nations do not shoot protesters!!

I understand the pros and cons. But do not shoot protesters. You're going back into the dark ages.

Many (probably most) army people in BKK puke at the thought of what they are being asked to do.

Do you honestly think the Redshirts are being overly violent ??? There were a 100,000 of these people not so long ago. Think of the mayhem they could have caused. They didn't !!!

Sure if the army shoot real bullets into you, you are going to be pretty angry.

Vested interests don't care a toss.

do not shoot protesters!! give them your gun and let them shoot you!

Do you honestly think the Redshirts are being overly violent ??? why don't you ask the army guy in the video?

Give up the peaceful protester crap. This is a violent mob. Anybody who is really a peaceful protester can put their hands over their heads and go home, come back next week.

True, they may get shot, but not by the army.

The rest can get pretty angry, and they can get shot by real bullets. 2 choices, take your pick.

Think of they mayhem they could have caused?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

Have you been asleep for 2-months.

raiding parliament , raiding TV Station, taking over the commercial district of the capital ...............

forget it, why bother

[truethailand]

=====================================================================

An injured person with a weapon is more dangerous than one that can retreat and run away

I agree if the have a white flag becareful

But we learnt the hard way that it could be a trap during the Vietnam way

Its easy for all you computer savy louches to tell young soldiers what to do when they face a violent mob

But as I can say

"Been there done that"

I have the right to say they are doing the best that the circumstance put them under

If you want to know the real problem with politics in Thailand when it comes to the masses ... simply ask Thais under 40 year old what they know about the Vietnam War or ask all what they can tell you about WW I or II. I am not saying to ask them details of any sort but find out if they even know these things took place.

This a very true point. I can remember teaching a class of 20 something middle class Thais (this was about 10 years ago) and not one of them had heard of Pol Pot. Not a clue who he was!

What's the saying about people who don't know history being doomed to repeat it? Not saying that we're back in Cambodia 1975 quite yet - but the footage

could have straight out Phnom Penh 1974, or Lebanon in 1977, or Bosnia 1991. Stuff like this is the harbinger of civil war.

They dont teach them any history bcos then they may ask about their own. And thats anything but glorious. Ask young Chinese kids in Beijing about Tiammen Square and they have no idea. Similar mob controlling this country for the last 200 years

[siampolee]

An ambulance is trying to get in to rangnam but has just been hit by a molotv cocktail

A fine example of the Red Shirt Brigade ethics is it not ?

Also Red Shirt Leaders requesting reporters to return to their site.

Are they (the reporters) being forced to wear green armbands calling for the dissolution of parliament ?

The Red Shirt Brigade are so in need of propaganda as the general public have no interest in their crusade to impose a communist regime of the style beloved by Pol Pot.

These people wanted a fight and threatened arson on a grand scale and now we see the true face of the Red Shirt Brigade, out and out thugs with an agenda of hate,. class warfare and rampant oppression of any free thought or opposition by any means possible.

Thaksins thugs must be defeated

Edited May 15, 2010 by siampolee

[LuckyLew]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

Yes they deserve better education and infrastructure in all areas

of Thailand, there means to try achieve their goals really show this need.

There means and tactics are no way to gain this, it will only alienate them

even more. Do you think the elite or even the middle class ot Bangkok will

succumb to these kind of tactics and then suddenly decide

"hey lets spend al our tax money on the poor of other regions of Thialand,

they sure do deserveit after holding our city hostage for weeks on end"

Cannot see their life getting any better thru these tactics, it will only get worse

for those who survive

[Netfan]

I am niether red nor yellow as I said. If speaking out against inhuman acts of shooting people who are injured or waving a white flag in surrender makes me a red in your eyes then so be it. If this happened in afaganistan and an American, Aust or brit soldier shot a surrendering person they would be brought up on wars crimes. It is the acts I am commenting on not the colour the person is wearing. Tell me truely in your heart if you really believe shooting injured and surrending people is justified regardless of where it is happening.

You are no doubt referring to this video http://bit.ly/cp4xx4