More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[kissdani]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

[humfurry]

It's strange how the international media always seem to leave out the 'Thaksin link' when they report on this. It's such an important piece in the puzzle that to me it even feels suspicious that they don't mention this, almost like he's greased a few palms in the west (oh it does happen!). Instead they talk about the 'rural poor' versus the 'elite', and associate the word democracy with the very people who ruin the very idea by happily selling their vote fot the price of a couple of beers!

I think that the bbc/cnn and the rest of these 'non-biased' organisations should get to the real truth which is far more interesting than the story which they're currently reporting.

Why don't they ask the red shirts how much they're getting paid? Ask them why they think Thaksin is so great and what he could do for the country should he return. Ask them how they think that Thaksin, as a convicted criminal, could possibly plan to be taken seriously by the international community, should he manage to bully his way back into office.

Ask them why they are using women and children as a human shield.

Ask them why they risk their lives for a greedy evil billionaire?

Why can't the press get an interview with Thaksin? A few well placed questions will simply destroy him.

Why don't the international media do their job rather than appearing to be the heroes in the danger zone, reporting alongside the red-shirt 'freedom fighters'?

My point? It appears that Thaksin has more than just a few red-shirts in his back pocket!!!

BBC reporting on this is very poor. Disappointing actually.

The Beeb has always been slightly left wing but in this case they're just not doing the investigative reporting I would expect.

I think I will register this point with them. They'd certainly not want to be seen as being biased

I completely agree. I think western media see the word 'democracy' and immediately presume the reds are the good guys because it appears they want to run their country in a manner that conforms to western ideology. The reality couldn't be further from the truth. This is only about the desire of one man to control a country.

I think the Economist has gotten it quite right:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15718981

Good read.... Thanks

[timekeeper]

Protesters seize traffic light booth at Din Daeng Intersection, cause huge fire with tyres

Channel 3 reported at 11:30 am that red-shirt protesters seized traffic light booth at the Din Daeng Intersection and light a big fire in the middle of road using tyres.

Think smoke was seen billowing.

The protesters also threatened to fire at authorities if they attempt to break up the rally at the intersection.

Nation

16 05 2010

wait! is that an admission that they have guns.........??

[daboyz1]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

Get ahold of Thaksin. He can give you training. Ask the 2500 up north. He's an expert.

[thepodest]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

Noone said that you need to have an experience in "how to kill people" or be soldier to know that.

Perhaps common sense?

Edited May 16, 2010 by thepodest

[gemini81]

I've heard it repeatedly said that many of the Red Guards were former Rangers. The Rangers, also called hunters, are not regular soldiers. Here is a little info about them:

Global Security Website

Thahan Prahan (Royal Thai Rangers)

The Thahan Phrahan (Hunter Soldiers or Rangers) were originally formed in 1978 to clear Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) guerrillas from mountain strongholds in Thailand's northeast. Some of its initial recruits were convicted criminals whose sentences were remitted; others joined to obtain parcels of land granted as a reward for successful campaigns. They are a paramilitary light infantry force led by regular officers and NCOs, with other ranks comprised of full-time and part-time personnel. Roughly one-third of these regional-level troops are given more advanced training to become an army-level force. The RTA's paramilitary Thahan Prahan, one of the front-line guards of Thailand's often ill-defined and porous borders, completed a major reorganization and downsizing in late 2001. The reorganization was due to changes in the threats on Thailand's eastern and western borders as well as RTA budget cuts. The total strength is believed to be about 11,000, around half the number reached a decade ago ...............

...........However, the Rangers have had a troubled history, with units often accused of atrocities, abuses of authority and involvement in the drug trade. It has also been reported in the past, these units included a large majority of local thugs who often made use of their Thahan Prahan status to continue to commit crimes against their fellow citizens.

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________

Here's Sae Dang's link to the Rangers:

Washington Times

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________

And Reuters on the possible Black shirt - Rangers link.

Reuters

thanks for the facts and history. let that be an education for redparrot and the other keyboard red warriors.

[Thai at Heart]

Well it is patently obvious that the supposed "rules" of engagement have gone out of the window. I don't blame the army. It was in someways to be absolutely expected

However, looking at the videos, I am quite surprised at the lack of armored vehicles being used. I am no warfare strategy expert, and this is an urban environment. However, if you want to command the streets, wouldn't it part of the plan to use tanks and APC's.

Maybe they think it doesn't look good on the streets, but with youtube and the worlds media watching quite intently, who cares. Maybe the tank groups they have are perceived as not very effective and that the "red militia" would know only too well how to handle them?

The situation seems to be barely under control, not wanting to wish anything bad to happen in Bangkok, but lets hope to God this doesn't spread out into the provinces. If that starts, who knows where the mess will end.

Every time they bring out the APCs the red seem to be able to get their hands on them [as the soldiers are not shooting to kill on sight] and once the reds have armoured APCs they will be much harder to remove.

Indeed, it seems that the commanders of these units don't seem to mesh too well with the infantry. But still, I don't see how this can be "won" with running street battles at 100 yards and snipers. I understand the policy is to surround them, but surrounding them with soldiers and some razor wire and sitting back isn't going to work.

The reds could stay in there for weeks, and the battle lines will stay the same. I don't presume to guess how many people live in there, but it has to be in the hundreds of thousands at least. A paid holiday to the beach for all the residents who want to leave might be in order for all of them. Close up all the houses. The "reds" are mingling with the residents and this is only serving to blur the lines.

Martial law in that area of town would be a logical next step. Give everyone one days warning to stock up if they don't want to leave. Those that want to leave, welcome, here is a bus to the beach. Everyone else stay in doors or you are going to get arrested at best, or at absolute worst, killed.

[Neurath]

Is Jaturon the same person as Jatuporn (or Jatupon, as I would spell it)?

Rats leaving a sinking ship comes to mind.

No, they're referring to Chaturon Chaising - TRT Ex-Deputy P.M. - Member for Chachoensao. Banned for 5 years.

[timekeeper]

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

englishoak

an unfortunate name in these parts

related to Thai Oak, Thaksins son?

From UN definition of terrorism

"In November 2004, a United Nations Secretary General report described terrorism as any act "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act". "

By this definition the Issan Army occupying central Bangkok are terrorists.

[jdinasia]

dont know about eesan but up north kratom is grow naturaly in the forest, i've tried it a few times, like natural spped same like coca effect.

In small doses -- larger doses have a more opiod effect. There are very few known cases of major overdoses of Kratom in Thailand but it is now being refined in some places into a pill or powder form in some places (mainly Indonesia and the West) so that is changing.

The point is ... Jerry suggests all farmers "know the virtues" and says coca --- While the truth of the matter seems to be there are FEW farmers that are the red guards right now. Mostly thugs from the industrial estates and drug gangs, Coca isn't used anywhere in Thailand (other than some very very limited cocaine use) nor grown here. YaaBaa is common throughout the country.

Suggesting that all isaan farmers are drug users is both VERY wrong and damns Jerry's own cause but is also so bigotted that it is offensive.

However, it does appear that Jerry seems to be suggesting that the reds ARE using drugs. I think many people would agree with him!

[nickupton]

It's strange how the international media always seem to leave out the 'Thaksin link' when they report on this. It's such an important piece in the puzzle that to me it even feels suspicious that they don't mention this, almost like he's greased a few palms in the west (oh it does happen!). Instead they talk about the 'rural poor' versus the 'elite', and associate the word democracy with the very people who ruin the very idea by happily selling their vote fot the price of a couple of beers!

I think that the bbc/cnn and the rest of these 'non-biased' organisations should get to the real truth which is far more interesting than the story which they're currently reporting.

Why don't they ask the red shirts how much they're getting paid? Ask them why they think Thaksin is so great and what he could do for the country should he return. Ask them how they think that Thaksin, as a convicted criminal, could possibly plan to be taken seriously by the international community, should he manage to bully his way back into office.

Ask them why they are using women and children as a human shield.

Ask them why they risk their lives for a greedy evil billionaire?

Why can't the press get an interview with Thaksin? A few well placed questions will simply destroy him.

Why don't the international media do their job rather than appearing to be the heroes in the danger zone, reporting alongside the red-shirt 'freedom fighters'?

My point? It appears that Thaksin has more than just a few red-shirts in his back pocket!!!

BBC reporting on this is very poor. Disappointing actually.

The Beeb has always been slightly left wing but in this case they're just not doing the investigative reporting I would expect.

I think I will register this point with them. They'd certainly not want to be seen as being biased

I completely agree. I think western media see the word 'democracy' and immediately presume the reds are the good guys because it appears they want to run their country in a manner that conforms to western ideology. The reality couldn't be further from the truth. This is only about the desire of one man to control a country.

I think the Economist has gotten it quite right:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15718981

"The army stands squarely behind Mr Abhisit, who took power 15 months ago by a parliamentary fix " Does the Economist prefer the electoral fix that installed the Samak government and has been proven by video evidence in court rather than the alleded fix they "myopically" see which installed a government which represents the majority of voters in a parliamentary system.

This ridiculously biased introduction smacks of a gross lack of understanding of the situation and/or a very patronising attitude from a Republican point of view towards a different system of democracy.

Sad that such a well-respected sources has printed such a low quality intro to what is otherwise quite an interesting article.

[TAWP]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

So can the slingshots and pyro-rockets hundreds of reds use...

[humfurry]

It's raining very hard where I am.... what's it like downtown?

[FarangCravings]

It's strange how the international media always seem to leave out the 'Thaksin link' when they report on this. It's such an important piece in the puzzle that to me it even feels suspicious that they don't mention this, almost like he's greased a few palms in the west (oh it does happen!). Instead they talk about the 'rural poor' versus the 'elite', and associate the word democracy with the very people who ruin the very idea by happily selling their vote fot the price of a couple of beers!

I think that the bbc/cnn and the rest of these 'non-biased' organisations should get to the real truth which is far more interesting than the story which they're currently reporting.

Why don't they ask the red shirts how much they're getting paid? Ask them why they think Thaksin is so great and what he could do for the country should he return. Ask them how they think that Thaksin, as a convicted criminal, could possibly plan to be taken seriously by the international community, should he manage to bully his way back into office.

Ask them why they are using women and children as a human shield.

Ask them why they risk their lives for a greedy evil billionaire?

Why can't the press get an interview with Thaksin? A few well placed questions will simply destroy him.

Why don't the international media do their job rather than appearing to be the heroes in the danger zone, reporting alongside the red-shirt 'freedom fighters'?

My point? It appears that Thaksin has more than just a few red-shirts in his back pocket!!!

Excellent post!

GIMME A BREAK

[pimay11]

I am not a specialist so: OK thanks for the information, it is not Coca it is Kratom....

I apologize but the result is the same.

Thank you Jerry. There is also a leaf here know as Beatle Nut. Same but different. Has a mild stimulating effect. Turns your teeth red. And I mean RED. Popular with the older generation. Don't see many youngsters using it.

[otherstuff1957]

I think the Economist has gotten it quite right:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15718981

Good read.... Thanks

This one is a bit more current (and more thoughtful than many Western Press articles):

Economist in Issan

"Thailand's political crisis is often framed, simplistically, as a battle between haves and have-nots. But in Mr Uthai's village, there are plenty of pickup trucks and tidy houses. The question is who speaks for his generation's children, who are moving to provincial cities, eager to trade up. They have middle-class aspirations but their economic interests, and the politicians they elect, are not those of white-collar Bangkok. Mr Thaksin won their hearts by swelling their wallets. A global boom helped polish his pitch. Mr Abhisit took power in a nasty recession."

[pimay11]

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines Jerry I would advise you that if you ever make it to Thailand you visit Esaan and further your education. I have lived in Isaan for over eleven years and traveled over the entire area. I have many Thai friends throughout Esaan. I have attended numerous all night parties which are very common here. Not one time have I ever heard of coca being grown in Isaan. Not one time have I seen anyone using coca in Isaan. Your statement is simply not true. Shame on you Jerry. If you are an honest poster please retract this statement. Yes there is yaba here from time to time but no more or less than in any other Thai province.

please don't take this personal, but could you guys stick to the topic please?

and if off-topic, stick to that topic without arguing over grammar or nomenclature.

"Effects come on within five to ten minutes after use, and last for several hours. Kratom has both stimulating and depressant qualities as if chewing coca leaves and smoking opium simultaneously. Some sources say that it is a stimulant in lower doses, becoming sedative in higher doses. The dominant effects seem to be similar to opiate drugs"

so one guy mentions chewing some leaves....

and another guy says coca....

now we're in a war over south america versus southeast asia.

c'mon, some farmers chew some leaves as a stimulant.

let's not get in a pissing contest over who has the largest............vocabulary.

remember english is not the native language of some posters.

give them the benefit of the doubt.

argue over something more important

Noted. I guess I am a little sensitive when it comes to my friends here. Will stick to the topic.

[FarangCravings]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

[sawadeeken]

Why don't the red leaders just let their supporters go home????? They aren't likely to gain anything now and it could save lives. I think they don't place much value on their 'sacrificial sheep'............................. And while I'm on the subject, why aren't those leaders at the front of the protest lines????????? They never get close to the action ------- COWARDS, deep down, I think................ all mouth, no guts........................

[rogerx007]

All the experts on Politics, War, Economy, JOURNALISM, Weapons, Human Psychology, Religion are here on ThaiVisa... I don't how they running the world out dere..

Most of these experts haven't moved out of their home for few days now but they know all is there to know... they can set things right with one hit at spacebar...

[debcmai]

here is a report from a spot where unarmed red shirts were shot repeatedly...by Thai soldiers. If it is true that there is only shooting by the military in self defense, then why were these guys shot up? rivetting stuff:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...e-killing-zone/

They look like innocent civilian just passing by, don't they?

A tongue in cheek joke I suppose. They where neither unarmed nor passersby. Infact, they are the typical wall-building grunts that enable this mess and the actions of more heavy armed insurgents to act out against the army.

I understand why they get shot at.

they were Unarmed with guns...only stones, sling shots etc. No match for rifles and this kind of killing is uncalled for

[kissdani]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

Noone said that you need to have an experience in "how to kill people" or be soldier to know that.

Perhaps common sense?

Common people would probably call these soldiers 'snipers'. Soldiers and trained murderers will know it better.

[FarangCravings]

Why don't the red leaders just let their supporters go home????? They aren't likely to gain anything now and it could save lives. I think they don't place much value on their 'sacrificial sheep'............................. And while I'm on the subject, why aren't those leaders at the front of the protest lines????????? They never get close to the action ------- COWARDS, deep down, I think................ all mouth, no guts........................

Because they will go back to be down trodden on and nothing will change the elites will win

[nickupton]

Protesters seize traffic light booth at Din Daeng Intersection, cause huge fire with tyres

Channel 3 reported at 11:30 am that red-shirt protesters seized traffic light booth at the Din Daeng Intersection and light a big fire in the middle of road using tyres.

Think smoke was seen billowing.

The protesters also threatened to fire at authorities if they attempt to break up the rally at the intersection.

Nation

16 05 2010

wait! is that an admission that they have guns.........??

Well, it's difficult to see how they are going to fire at authorities with just their bare hands unless they have managed to master the dark side of the force. Either way it shows them for who they really are.

[ozzieman05]

so the army is still just surrounding them and not actually going in to the red camp. The reds are coming out to attack the army. What do they expect to happen to them? fair enough i say; cnn now say army is being attacked by gun and grenade, fair enough, the more terrorist they kill now the less to make trouble later! red leader should let all the kids out and stop to use them as shield; cowardly scum bags.

HE NATION: My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children & old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2 leave by r-guards..

[rogerx007]

Why don't the red leaders just let their supporters go home????? They aren't likely to gain anything now and it could save lives. I think they don't place much value on their 'sacrificial sheep'............................. And while I'm on the subject, why aren't those leaders at the front of the protest lines????????? They never get close to the action ------- COWARDS, deep down, I think................ all mouth, no guts........................

I haven't seen any Govt minister at the front of Army lines either.... so both sides are just all mouth and no guts ???

[thepodest]

Well, it's difficult to see how they are going to fire at authorities with just their bare hands unless they have managed to master the dark side of the force. Either way it shows them for who they really are.

[gemini81]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Obviously you don't have a clue whats going on up there in Chiang Mai. You sound like an i_diot. If they were murderers they would've already bumped off the 3 remaining ring leaders. The gov't has put off this necessary action as long as possible to spare lives. You can't let these thugs cripple the country and more than you can let uninformed fourm members call the gov't murderers.

[Abrak]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

[FarangCravings]

so the army is still just surrounding them and not actually going in to the red camp. The reds are coming out to attack the army. What do they expect to happen to them? fair enough i say; cnn now say army is being attacked by gun and grenade, fair enough, the more terrorist they kill now the less to make trouble later! red leader should let all the kids out and stop to use them as shield; cowardly scum bags.

HE NATION: My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children & old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2 leave by r-guards..

Unbelivable now you say the reds are holding civs against there will how low will you guys go

The goverment said all the deaths are becase the reds are shooting each other LMAO do they really think anyone will believe that