More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[Humungus]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

ping Pong with Abhisit... Letter from Abhisit to UN....Natthawut ready to negotiate under mediation of UN...next answer from Abhisit: Thai internal Affairs...Politician game

He's only ready to negotiate while they rearm and resupply, after which he'll break off negotiations. Who would be dumb enough to believe the reds at this point. Put your hands in the air and surrender, only way out now.

[humfurry]

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dsc0126xz.jpg/

Take a look at this photo. Do these people look like criminals to you? Taken today.

I was told that the official line from the military is that it doesnt want to get caught up in some battle with these sort of people around. It could go very badly wrong especially if there are 'real trained' agitators in there. I mean it is possible that they might kill a couple of innocent bystanders to incite the crowd. Or maybe these 'real' terrorists are just thugs. If 50 of that crowd get killed then it will not look good.

No but these do people do

Excellent point!

[Humungus]

Politician game, Sure Abhisit cannot accept a mediationof UN as it is "Thai Internal Affairs" .....

Well I guess it's a question of why should they accept a UN mediation? They don't have to there is nothing to be gained from it. I said in my post someone has to win. A UN mediation will draw this out, and then the Yellows will do the same as the Reds, believe me on that one... I know a lot of yellows. To accept the Red proposal is the wost thing that can happen for all sides. Again, someone has to win this. We're not all callous to the plight of the poor here, but the Red leadership is offering them nothing. Now the good news out of this that the problems of the rural poor can no longer be ignored.

There is no time for UN mediation. This senseless loss of life must stop, the only way to do that is for the terrorists in the red camp to surrender to the authorities. Law and order is the only hope for the future of Thailand.

[ETatBKK]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

ping Pong with Abhisit... Letter from Abhisit to UN....Natthawut ready to negotiate under mediation of UN...next answer from Abhisit: Thai internal Affairs...Politician game

"Natthawut's call for ceasefire" is not a complete message. he also demand for conditions : i) house dissolution, ii) cancel of EOS, and iii) Abhisit resign ( if I remember well ).

[Insight]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

ping Pong with Abhisit... Letter from Abhisit to UN....Natthawut ready to negotiate under mediation of UN...next answer from Abhisit: Thai internal Affairs...Politician game

He's only ready to negotiate while they rearm and resupply, after which he'll break off negotiations. Who would be dumb enough to believe the reds at this point. Put your hands in the air and surrender, only way out now.

Have got a feeling Nattawut's signal followed by CRES dropping the curfew means something is happening behind the scenes. The U.N. request could be decoration. Guess we'll know based on if there's any activity tonight.

[TAWP]

At 17.45 around 50 bikes ride through Huai Kwang, passing the food market and food stalls, honking their horns and shouting. Red guards (saw 3, most likely a few more around) in civilian clothes but carrying walki-talkies walk fast along the side walks, monitoring.

[jcbangkok]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

ping Pong with Abhisit... Letter from Abhisit to UN....Natthawut ready to negotiate under mediation of UN...next answer from Abhisit: Thai internal Affairs...Politician game

So just another lie from the red shirt camp ... No real care about road map, just that they want to get away with all their illegal acts in the month plus since the PM offered elections at the end of the year when he agreed to negotiate with them and they walked away.

[jcbangkok]

At 17.45 around 50 bikes ride through Huai Kwang, passing the food market and food stalls, honking their horns and shouting. Red guards (saw 3, most likely a few more around) in civilian clothes but carrying walki-talkies walk fast along the side walks, monitoring.

Where exactly? I live in Huai Kwang.

[chrislarsson]

The MAIN issue is that we are unsure of WHO killed Sae Daeng. The reports were that he was shot from INSIDE red territory.

I read a few reports, but I never read any suggesting that he was shot from inside the red territory. Can you provide any links of that?

An article in The Nation, for instance, suggest he was shot by a sniper from a high-rise building.

An informal investigation into the shooting of Khattiya reveals that he was talking to reporters with his face turned towards Wireless Road. The sniper could only have hid himself on one of the high floors inside either the Dusit Thani Hotel or the adjacent building on Rama IV Road.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...--30129368.html

[TheOldWolf]

Before posting and laying blame on either side, consider the following from the news updates thread

"Odd that army isn't pushing forward to clear Rama IV". /via @markmackinnon

. Also consider many of the similar posts made, including some from the red supporting faction here (one was talking about soldiers clearing an overbridge, but not securing it). Now listen to what the government have been saying about not cracking down on the red camp, but sealing it off. The evidence is all there. The army is generally holding its position away from the main red camp, the more militant reds are coming out to meet, and attack, them. No red spin can be put on it, the facts are there in black and white. The burnings and lootings, the reason for the clashes, the direct cause of the current violence, can all be laid at the feet of the red shirts in their desire to attack the army. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a ceasefire was really their aim it could be achieved instantly by not going near the soldiers. Unless they're doing the gene pool a favour by eliminating the idiots who think it's fine to wave sticks, throw molotov cocktails and fire marbles, as well as bullets, at heavily armed nervous soldiers, they must have some ulterior motive for these tactics. The big question is what is it? They turned down the chance for early elections and a face saving way out. Why would they do this if democracy was truly their aim? I can see two possibilities. Firstly, maybe they are waiting for the army to take total control of the country, effectively holding a coup, in the hope they attract more suporters to their cause. Or secondly, the man with multiple nationalities is still convinced deep in his twisted square mind that he will be called back as the saviour of the people and come flying in on a white business jet to sort it all out. In either case, he is investing heavily in this push for power prior to the army reshuffle, and more significant events to come. It's a business proposition for him, pure and simple. Speculate to accumulate, and he doesn't care one bit about the lives he's ending and ruining to achieve his goal.

What about 25 people kille and several 100 injured because of this:

However, another red-shirt core member Chinawat Haboonpad, said the UDD leadership was still in unity but some leaders had a different view.

"At first, we [the red-shirt leaders] agreed to end the rally but people have died during the political clashes. We then could not come into terms because none of us want to be in prison without receiving a fair treatment," Mr Chinawat said. "If the emergency decree is revoked the police could detain us further for 84 days."

From BP

first, your numbers are incorrect. second, its above your reading level evidently. why you would even ask such a ridiculous question flabbergasts me. answer me this: how are only 25 dead? (your wounded stats are way off)

My point was not the exact number of killed and injured and I am sorry if I got it incorrect. My point was that the red leaders turned down the offer because they were afraid to go to jail.

[TAWP]

All of your posts are absolutely ridiculously biased....

I really can not read your crap anymore.....

But please keep on posting........We are in a democracy

Why is it you allow the rightwing to insult like this Thaivisa?

Right-wing?

[Humungus]

Saw a new report on Thai TV where they were showing a group of totally inept reds throwing moltov cocktails which must have been filled with water because none of them ignited, and they were targetting the middle of an empty road. Why are they risking their lives to do such stupid things. Stay away from the soldiers, put down your weapons, no one has to die.

[jcbangkok]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

ping Pong with Abhisit... Letter from Abhisit to UN....Natthawut ready to negotiate under mediation of UN...next answer from Abhisit: Thai internal Affairs...Politician game

He's only ready to negotiate while they rearm and resupply, after which he'll break off negotiations. Who would be dumb enough to believe the reds at this point. Put your hands in the air and surrender, only way out now.

Have got a feeling Nattawut's signal followed by CRES dropping the curfew means something is happening behind the scenes. The U.N. request could be decoration. Guess we'll know based on if there's any activity tonight.

If true then I bet it is not the PM agreeing to this. There continues to be those in the ranks who want to be the hero by ending this and each time they shoot themselves in the foot because the reds show they cannot be trusted. There is NOTHING left to negotiate, they simply need to vacate the area.

Edit: Even under curfew the authorities can arrange for reds to vacate the area through one of the exits to board buses or be taken to a staging area to later be escorted to their vehicles when timing permits.

[datum]

Politician game, Sure Abhisit cannot accept a mediationof UN as it is "Thai Internal Affairs" .....

He should have ask himself UN mediation long time ago. What it means that it is Thai internal affairs? The Ireland case was not internal affairs? The Cyprus case is not internal affairs? The Darfur case is not internal affairs? Give me a break all of you that you don't want to talk about the possibility of having UN mediation! WHY? What the government afraid of asking UN mediation? To loose face? He has lost face long time ago! The US embassy is evacuating non-essential staff. Do you know what this means in the diplomatic language? It means that they do not trust the country's government as a credible government that can assure the public safety of civilians!

I just underline that Nattawut knows perfectly the Abhisit answer and this is not going to be followed by any result. That 's all I agree with you about most of your post. But, unfortunately it is too early to get the UN mediation (That should be a good progress toward normalcy0

Yes, I agree with you that on the basis of other cases it is early for official UN mediation. Usually official UN mediation is asked after 1-2 years of civil war! But he could have use other means and he could have agree on a shuttle diplomacy negotiations between him and the reds (or between the real leaders of the two groups). This shuttle diplomacy could have been done by one of the international NGOs that are working for the UN but are not technical UN. He could have ask for example the International Crisis Group to start shuttle diplomacy negotiations.

[OzMick]

Please use your head. If soldiers were opening up on the reds with M16s ... you would see a lot more dead than 24 ... and aren't a couple of the dead now being reported to be soldiers?

If it turns out that any of them died to injuries sustained from slingshots I will instantly retract my previous statement. Naturally, all armed enemy combatants are fair play in my book. I just feel I could actually do more damage with my bare hands than with one of the most primitive projectile weapons on the planet so I would not consider it any more armed than, say, someone wielding a stick. Granted that walking around a live fire zone while swinging a stick around isn't the smartest idea either. You certainly won't catch me doing that.

I know what you're trying to say, that it is unfair. But the whole theme of military training is to be unfair; to have better weapons, tactics, training and intelligence, and how to use them to your advantage. This isn't a game of cards, it's bet your life.

Old, old saying: don't bring a knife to a gunfight; or a slingshot, or a stick. Add another "People willing to die, die just as easy" (apologies to Stormin' Norman)

[TAWP]

Foreigners attacked by red shirts

Farang got angry at the 7-eleven staff. Thai lady was just closing the store and he started to shake her, shouting "Thailand crazy, Thailand crazy... I don't come back for sure"

You were there?

[elcent]

Natthawut has called for a ceasefire, saying they are ready to reconcile:INN

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Confused .. what is he talking about this for? The way to reconcile is to have the mob go home and those with warrants turn themselves in. Nothing to talk about really, just do it

Don't go for his rhetoric. He didn't have to pay the women and children for their presence as soon as govt and NGOs moved in to take them home today.

IT'S ABOUT MONEY AND GREED.

He probly tries to spend the savings on warfare.

[ETatBKK]

on Thai TV, tomorrow and Tuesday ( May 17 and 18 ) are HOLIDAY, off from work !!

quick calrify : in BANGKOK only !!

[haroldc]

Before posting and laying blame on either side, consider the following from the news updates thread

"Odd that army isn't pushing forward to clear Rama IV". /via @markmackinnon

. Also consider many of the similar posts made, including some from the red supporting faction here (one was talking about soldiers clearing an overbridge, but not securing it). Now listen to what the government have been saying about not cracking down on the red camp, but sealing it off. The evidence is all there. The army is generally holding its position away from the main red camp, the more militant reds are coming out to meet, and attack, them. No red spin can be put on it, the facts are there in black and white. The burnings and lootings, the reason for the clashes, the direct cause of the current violence, can all be laid at the feet of the red shirts in their desire to attack the army. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a ceasefire was really their aim it could be achieved instantly by not going near the soldiers. Unless they're doing the gene pool a favour by eliminating the idiots who think it's fine to wave sticks, throw molotov cocktails and fire marbles, as well as bullets, at heavily armed nervous soldiers, they must have some ulterior motive for these tactics. The big question is what is it? They turned down the chance for early elections and a face saving way out. Why would they do this if democracy was truly their aim? I can see two possibilities. Firstly, maybe they are waiting for the army to take total control of the country, effectively holding a coup, in the hope they attract more suporters to their cause. Or secondly, the man with multiple nationalities is still convinced deep in his twisted square mind that he will be called back as the saviour of the people and come flying in on a white business jet to sort it all out. In either case, he is investing heavily in this push for power prior to the army reshuffle, and more significant events to come. It's a business proposition for him, pure and simple. Speculate to accumulate, and he doesn't care one bit about the lives he's ending and ruining to achieve his goal.

bravo

[ChouDoufu]

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders: Ready to resume talks with government provided army stops security operation; wants UN to mediate

stopping security operations would allow resupply and reinforcement.

un mediation would imply negotiation between equals.

[roykeanz]

Before posting and laying blame on either side, consider the following from the news updates thread

"Odd that army isn't pushing forward to clear Rama IV". /via @markmackinnon

. Also consider many of the similar posts made, including some from the red supporting faction here (one was talking about soldiers clearing an overbridge, but not securing it). Now listen to what the government have been saying about not cracking down on the red camp, but sealing it off. The evidence is all there. The army is generally holding its position away from the main red camp, the more militant reds are coming out to meet, and attack, them. No red spin can be put on it, the facts are there in black and white. The burnings and lootings, the reason for the clashes, the direct cause of the current violence, can all be laid at the feet of the red shirts in their desire to attack the army. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a ceasefire was really their aim it could be achieved instantly by not going near the soldiers. Unless they're doing the gene pool a favour by eliminating the idiots who think it's fine to wave sticks, throw molotov cocktails and fire marbles, as well as bullets, at heavily armed nervous soldiers, they must have some ulterior motive for these tactics. The big question is what is it? They turned down the chance for early elections and a face saving way out. Why would they do this if democracy was truly their aim? I can see two possibilities. Firstly, maybe they are waiting for the army to take total control of the country, effectively holding a coup, in the hope they attract more suporters to their cause. Or secondly, the man with multiple nationalities is still convinced deep in his twisted square mind that he will be called back as the saviour of the people and come flying in on a white business jet to sort it all out. In either case, he is investing heavily in this push for power prior to the army reshuffle, and more significant events to come. It's a business proposition for him, pure and simple. Speculate to accumulate, and he doesn't care one bit about the lives he's ending and ruining to achieve his goal.

Excellent post, up to your usual high standard.

Too bad those most needing to really understand it,

are least likely to give a toss, let alone try to understand it.

Hear! Hear! 

[kaengk]

Please use your head. If soldiers were opening up on the reds with M16s ... you would see a lot more dead than 24 ... and aren't a couple of the dead now being reported to be soldiers?

If it turns out that any of them died to injuries sustained from slingshots I will instantly retract my previous statement. Naturally, all armed enemy combatants are fair play in my book. I just feel I could actually do more damage with my bare hands than with one of the most primitive projectile weapons on the planet so I would not consider it any more armed than, say, someone wielding a stick. Granted that walking around a live fire zone while swinging a stick around isn't the smartest idea either. You certainly won't catch me doing that.

I know what you're trying to say, that it is unfair. But the whole theme of military training is to be unfair; to have better weapons, tactics, training and intelligence, and how to use them to your advantage. This isn't a game of cards, it's bet your life.

Old, old saying: don't bring a knife to a gunfight; or a slingshot, or a stick. Add another "People willing to die, die just as easy" (apologies to Stormin' Norman)

Exactly true. Trained killers kill. Which is why the military should never have been brought into a civil disobedience conflict that was very peaceful before they arrived. The military is just doing their job - killing; it is not their fault. The blame rests with the poor decisions of Abhisit, a very weak leader indeed.

[gemini81]

on Thai TV, tomorrow and Tuesday ( May 17 and 18 ) are HOLIDAY, off from work !!

quick calrify : in BANGKOK only !!

I saw the announcement too on TV. Sucks, I do international work with the government. No pay, like for many others. Just got the word from a gov't official after getting off the phone too. shut down Mon and Tue

[TAWP]

At 17.45 around 50 bikes ride through Huai Kwang, passing the food market and food stalls, honking their horns and shouting. Red guards (saw 3, most likely a few more around) in civilian clothes but carrying walki-talkies walk fast along the side walks, monitoring.

Where exactly? I live in Huai Kwang.

Platchasongkla, or however the name is spelled...

[Who, me ?]

Nuttawut: Ready to return to table of talks but govt must first call back troops and allow UN to be the mediator

This lying two faced coward has no honour no rights at all.

The rectum wants the U.N. involved , remember you hypocrite the comment from your thug paymaster Thaksin

''The United Nations is not my father.''

No ifs, no buts, straight into gaol arrest warrant executed and his henchmen to follow.

[jcbangkok]

Saw a new report on Thai TV where they were showing a group of totally inept reds throwing moltov cocktails which must have been filled with water because none of them ignited, and they were targetting the middle of an empty road. Why are they risking their lives to do such stupid things. Stay away from the soldiers, put down your weapons, no one has to die.

I saw this too ... my first thought was to wonder what the road did to them to make them mad. Then I thought maybe they were practicing but then my senses came to me and I realized they simply must be on drugs.

Have you seen the video of the ones in their underwear yet?

[ballpoint]

What about 25 people kille and several 100 injured because of this:

However, another red-shirt core member Chinawat Haboonpad, said the UDD leadership was still in unity but some leaders had a different view.

"At first, we [the red-shirt leaders] agreed to end the rally but people have died during the political clashes. We then could not come into terms because none of us want to be in prison without receiving a fair treatment," Mr Chinawat said. "If the emergency decree is revoked the police could detain us further for 84 days."

From BP

And where were these people killed? I'm open to correction, but it's my understanding that they were all outside the "accepted" area of the red camp? Some came from inside the camp to meet the soldiers, others came from outside. They went to the mountain, the mountain didn't come to them. Really, if you don't want to be hit on the head by a falling rock then don't go near the mountain. And especially don't go there and throw things at it in an attempt to dislodge said rock. Simple.

And as for the quote you included "Chinawat Haboonpad, said the UDD leadership was still in unity but some leaders had a different view", what a brilliant statement. How about "the reds and yellows are in unity, but some have a different view"? Maybe my discounted theory about them being a bunch of idiots who really see nothing wrong with provoking heavily armed, nervous troops needs to be revived.

[iciparis]

Politician game, Sure Abhisit cannot accept a mediationof UN as it is "Thai Internal Affairs" .....

He should have ask himeself UN mediation long time ago. What it means that it is Thai internal affairs? The Ireland case was not internal affairs? The Cyprus case is not internal affairs? The Darfur case is not internal affairs? Give me a break all of you that you don't want to talk about the possibility of having UN mediation! WHY? What the government afraid of asking UN mediation? To loose face? He has lost face long time ago! The US embassy is evacuating non-essential staff. Do you know what this means in the diplomatic language? It means that they do not trust the country's government as a credible government that can assure the public safety of civilians!

It means that your Ambassador was one of the coward who was the first on the roof in SAIGON and thinks I don't wanne miss that chopper now.

Guess that some on this forum already have started packing, because Viking 75, redparot and many other reds weren't here for some time, or have they joint the protesters???

I doubt it!!

[basjke]

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders: Ready to resume talks with government provided army stops security operation; wants UN to mediate

Mummy they hurt me.

[jcbangkok]

At 17.45 around 50 bikes ride through Huai Kwang, passing the food market and food stalls, honking their horns and shouting. Red guards (saw 3, most likely a few more around) in civilian clothes but carrying walki-talkies walk fast along the side walks, monitoring.

Where exactly? I live in Huai Kwang.

Platchasongkla, or however the name is spelled...

LOL .. not the main road that turns into Asoke? I am off Prachratchbumphen (spelling?) and the main road is Rachaprasong (spelling?) that has the mall and Carefour on it that leads into Asoke.