More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[Jingthing]

BBC reporting now much more balanced.

Sean Boonpracond speaking for the reds admitted some of the reds are armed.

He also failed to answer BBC question "why don't you just leave"?

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Video of young Thai thugs building piles of tyres for burning. Are these people on Yaba or what?

Not Yaba, but democracy - freedom - injustice tablets I think.

Who are you kidding? They are on drugs and whiskey. If they get Thaksin dictator back they better watch out for a new drug war aimed at THEM.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Jingthing

[Arkady]

Letter in today's Nation - not written by me.

The BBC is giving us a headache: Let's fix it!

The BBC's Chris Hogg was asked to explain why the reds continue to fight so hard. "...It's not pleasant camping out in the road..." was part of his stumbling, shallow reasoning - further jaw-sagging nonsense!

I know of many other people who are up in arms about the BBC's

coverage of recent events in Bangkok, coverage that at times may have hampered a satisfactory conclusion to this awful business.

I am attempting to organise an informal petition, that is not hi-tech, as a means of pointing out the BBC's journalistic distortions and failures. If you want to be involved, email me at [email protected].

Include your name, general location, and in one or two sentences explain your gripe. I will collate the results and forward them to the director-general of the BBC. I will not forward your email address.

John Shepherd

Edited May 17, 2010 by Arkady

[pornsasi]

BBC reporting now much more balanced.

Sean Boonpracond speaking for the reds admitted some of the reds are armed.

He also failed to answer BBC question "why don't you just leave"?

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Video of young Thai thugs building piles of tyres for burning. Are these people on Yaba or what?

Not Yaba, but democracy - freedom - injustice tablets I think.

I think so too

[jcbangkok]

So, it would appear that all those who regretfully have lost their lives in this conflict were breaking the law (minus soldiers) by at least at minimum being in an area declared unlawful to be within ... at least that is what you are saying since nobody has shown any different.

You can illogically as as you wish but i simply wanted to know if any non-law breakers had been killed.

by suggesting that a tens of thousands of impoverished citizens who live in bangkok conflict zones are somehow at fault for not abandoning their homes, you are making a shining fool of yourself.

which, from the ease at which you are doing it, suggests patient practice.

do keep it up.

Please tell me which person killed was an impoverished BKK resident who lived in the area and was unable to leave? I am not aware of 1 person being killed who resides in the area but would really appreciate it if you would prove me wrong so I don't continue to think you are just posting nonsense.

[rametindallas]

CONCISE AND INFORMED. From Today's Independent:

Background to the current Thai protest

[info] earlywarm wrote:

The Independent (London) Saturday, 15 May 2010 at 12:41 am (UTC)

I suspect that much of the confusion in the reports on the situation in

Thailand is coming from commentators who cannot speak or understand the

Thai language. So much of their analysis is simply a list of cliches

copied from others. <snip>

Thanks for posting that.

It looks like the writer got his info from the ANU discussion about 10 days ago........ nothing wrong with that, as few people would have heard it.

I wish I could find the link to the ANU podcast.

One problem about red sided reporting is surely caused by the reporters having been with the reds and been led by them to see what the reds want them to see.

Have not heard of any reporters being with the army and seeing things from their side when they are being targeted with M79 grenades, AK47's, RPG's, Molotov cocktails, professional slingshots (are illegal in most western countries and considered a weapon that can cause severe injury and/or death)

If you're a reporter and report negatively on the military, nothing will happen to you. If you report negatively on the red-shirts your liife won't be worth 2 baht.

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

Just reading Asok/Sukhumvit junction is now being barricaded with tyres etc. Can anyone confirm if the mob has spread east along Sukhumvit?

Edited May 17, 2010 by naughtybadfurrimunki

[rabo]

Is this close enough to an M-16 for you. It certainly wasn't 'captured' from the military.

actually this weapon is not an M-16. Its an AK-47 which is not standard issue in the thai military.

So it wasnt captured from the Thai army.

Its the first evidence ive seen if weaponry that is being supplied from outside thailand, and thus could be a horrifying harbinger of things to come.

anybody know what is going on here??

Only one[rifle], but could they come from Cambodia, Burma, or Singapore? The reason I mention Singapore is that Singapore's Tamasak Holdings, same guys that bought Thaskin's company, designed and built a complete small arms factory for Burma that was shipped in I think about 66 shipping containers. This was the late 1990s or early 2000s. I have no idea what kind of guns they would manufacture, except it was "small arms" for the junta.

Edited May 17, 2010 by rabo

[neverdie]

BBC reporting now much more balanced.

Sean Boonpracond speaking for the reds admitted some of the reds are armed.

He also failed to answer BBC question "why don't you just leave"?

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Video of young Thai thugs building piles of tyres for burning. Are these people on Yaba or what?

Not Yaba, but democracy - freedom - injustice tablets I think.

Who are you kidding? They are on drugs and whiskey. If they get Thaksin dictator back they better watch out for a new drug war aimed at THEM.

It seems some people's memories don't date back that far JT, it makes you wonder.

[earthpig]

But I also know that 10 year old died because Thaksin wants to teach a lesson to those that threw him out.

actually, that boy, like the pregnant woman, died because a sniper's bullet pierced their abdomens causing massive blood loss.

the rest is just talk.

and im no supporter of thaksin.

[rogerx007]

I would love to see what those "we" are actually doing other thn crapping on their keyboards...

--------------------------------------------------------------

considering your "highly intelligent response" something different to what you do - have another pill

and you stay inside ur cell in the mental hospital... its scary outside...

secondly... I don't need a certificate of intelligence from a washed up 60 year old living on his retirement fund...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for confirming my statement - first you do not know me and I'm not 60 nor as you put it washed up - blunt untrue statement of a red muppet - as to the mental hospital - I'm not your cell neighbor if you mistakenly think so

The term intelligence in any of the red supporters cases here would be an oxymoron considering their futile attempts at excusing a criminal mob from their actions

Enough now, I won't respond to any more of your rubbish - its not worth it

Yawnnn.....

[pornsasi]

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Actually there is an important point here.

There are relatively few people involved in this whole mess. However there is a big propaganda war going on for the minds of Thais and international opinion.

A week ago Abhisit had won it. He had offered a compromise that I believe virtually everyone on this Board believes should have been accepted. I also believe he elicited international support for the way he handled the protests.

However the military crackdown is beginning to change things. The international press is turning against 'him' and/or the 'military'. Grass root support for the protesters is beginning to emerge from Klontoey etc. I am admittedly rather anti the military and their intentions. I am not really a Democrat but I fully respect the way Abhisit has handled the matter. Those die hard anti-Reds should realize that being too hard line will be counter productive in the medium term.

A pertinent point . One cant silence deep divisions with bullets

Reminds me of US in Vietnam and their so called "body count" .

The more reds die , the more the governement think they are winning .

Well ... we know otherwise

[BKjohn]

Department of State has authorized departure of all non-emergency US govt personnel & eligible family members fr #Bangkok.

I would guess that the US Embassy has more information on what is going to happen then anyone here. If they go to that stage, the &lt;deleted&gt; is going to hit the fan soon.

RED's go home before it is too late and if your leaders would care about your welfare they would hand themselves in and ask you to go home

Edited May 17, 2010 by BKjohn

[citizen33]

Why do so many posters see no problems in the army firing live rounds at protesters building barricades and running into the open with makeshift weapons such as slingshots and rocks? Prime Minister Aphisit said that the army would conduct itself according to international standards. The international standard in this situation is the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials, which requires an imminent threat to life to be present before lethal force is used. Observers abroad are commenting on the disproportionate violence. Clearly the majority of TV posters do not like the stance taken by the BBC, CNN, etc. I don't expect that they will be happy either to see the top item on the Human Rights Watch homepage.

http://www.hrw.org/en/home

One does not need to support Thaksin or the wider red shirt cause to know that shooting people like this is wrong.

[neverdie]

Just reading Asok/Sukhumvit junction is now being barricaded with tyres etc. I don't understand how the mob has been allowed to spread east along Sukhumvit.

That seems like a strange thing to do, especially since their leaders stated about an hour ago that they were ready to negotiate without conditions. Whats going on then? Is everyone on the same page?

[toptuan]

From "Red-Shirt Rally" thread, posted at 13:37:

Urgent: Canadian consulate temp office's in Davis hotel suk 24. I'm there now, it is open. /via @Tonymaggs

Now THERE's a western country which seems to really try to take care of and serve it's expate/tourist constituents! And while you're at it, Canucks, would you mind bending the ears of the fleeing Aussie, U.S. and U.K. embassy staffs? Thanks.

I think I'll change my nationality!

[thefusilier]

Why do so many posters see no problems in the army firing live rounds at protesters building barricades and running into the open with makeshift weapons such as slingshots and rocks? Prime Minister Aphisit said that the army would conduct itself according to international standards. The international standard in this situation is the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials, which requires an imminent threat to life to be present before lethal force is used. Observers abroad are commenting on the disproportionate violence. Clearly the majority of TV posters do not like the stance taken by the BBC, CNN, etc. I don't expect that they will be happy either to see the top item on the Human Rights Watch homepage.

http://www.hrw.org/en/home

One does not need to support Thaksin or the wider red shirt cause to know that shooting people like this is wrong.

Because this has been commented to death already. There's more than enough video, pictures and foreign media commentary that reveals the Reds are armed with more than what you've mentioned.

[BKjohn]

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Actually there is an important point here.

There are relatively few people involved in this whole mess. However there is a big propaganda war going on for the minds of Thais and international opinion.

A week ago Abhisit had won it. He had offered a compromise that I believe virtually everyone on this Board believes should have been accepted. I also believe he elicited international support for the way he handled the protests.

However the military crackdown is beginning to change things. The international press is turning against 'him' and/or the 'military'. Grass root support for the protesters is beginning to emerge from Klontoey etc. I am admittedly rather anti the military and their intentions. I am not really a Democrat but I fully respect the way Abhisit has handled the matter. Those die hard anti-Reds should realize that being too hard line will be counter productive in the medium term.

A pertinent point . One cant silence deep divisions with bullets

Reminds me of US in Vietnam and their so called "body count" .

The more reds die , the more the governement think they are winning .

Well ... we know otherwise

The press is nothing but a whore, prostituting themselves to revenue - facts come second or even third

[neverdie]

Department of State has authorized departure of all non-emergency US govt personnel & eligible family members fr #Bangkok.

I would guess that the US Embassy has more information on what is going to happen then anyone here. If they go to that stage, the &lt;deleted&gt; is going to hit the fan soon.

RED's go home before it is too late and if your leaders would care about your welfare they would hand themselves in and ask you to go home

John, With all respects, EVERYBODY understands what is going on. The 3pm deadline was issued yesterday, its just a touch before 2pm - no wonder the warning has been issued.

[pornsasi]

CONCISE AND INFORMED. From Today's Independent:

Background to the current Thai protest

[info] earlywarm wrote:

The Independent (London) Saturday, 15 May 2010 at 12:41 am (UTC)

I suspect that much of the confusion in the reports on the situation in

Thailand is coming from commentators who cannot speak or understand the

Thai language. So much of their analysis is simply a list of cliches

copied from others. <snip>

Thanks for posting that.

It looks like the writer got his info from the ANU discussion about 10 days ago........ nothing wrong with that, as few people would have heard it.

I wish I could find the link to the ANU podcast.

One problem about red sided reporting is surely caused by the reporters having been with the reds and been led by them to see what the reds want them to see.

Have not heard of any reporters being with the army and seeing things from their side when they are being targeted with M79 grenades, AK47's, RPG's, Molotov cocktails, professional slingshots (are illegal in most western countries and considered a weapon that can cause severe injury and/or death)

If you're a reporter and report negatively on the military, nothing will happen to you. If you report negatively on the red-shirts your liife won't be worth 2 baht.

The friends of that Reuter japanese reporter and those of the other reporters wounded more recently will certainly support your unbiased views

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

Just reading Asok/Sukhumvit junction is now being barricaded with tyres etc. I don't understand how the mob has been allowed to spread east along Sukhumvit.

That seems like a strange thing to do, especially since their leaders stated about an hour ago that they were ready to negotiate without conditions. Whats going on then? Is everyone on the same page?

Further received tweets suggest it seems to be a red herring, not sure yet though.

[yoshiwara]

Oh, Jerry, why do you change the side? May 68 in France I was street-fighter with Daniel Cohn-Bendit (now leader of the Green group in the European Parliament) in Paris. You was mediator (when I believe your posting in another topic) for the other side. There was violence of both sides (old toxic teargas from Vietnam with chlorine, CRS troops got crazy, other police troops needed to calms them down---anarchist groups fought back.). The mediations were successful, you did a good job). But your "mediation" here is the work of an old man who lost the sense for reality.

Too many red supporters are old lefts wishing to recapture their youth.

Blinded by the image of a red banner, they end up embracing Thaksin's rotten fish head.

The role of the CP in '68 as now is as perfidious as ever.

[bkkjames]

Anybody see this small plane flying over the rajaprasong site?

[animatic]

What spin? I asked you if you thought a Thai ten year old has the metal capacity to make that decision given the circumstances and gravity of the situation.

You also mention it was "collateral damage, a crossfire or ricochet", I assume you have proof of this?

As usual ignore my answers given and quote me out of context. Same same for you.

I have the published and clear words of the soldiers at the scene to the press,

posted in the TVF locked press release thread right after the incident.

I will not bother to spend an hour trying to back track 100 pages to find it for you.

And yes I think a Ten year old has the capacity for rational thought,

just they still get caught in their emotions too much.

Can a ten year old follow direct orders. Yes, most of them.

Best example, 10 or even younger year old [b]child soldiers [/b]in Africa - when asked "how many people have you killed?" his answer was 2 !

yesterday, i have suggest we do not utilise this death for fuelling our debate. A lot of you have supported the idea; it has been a non wanted accident.

Today again I repeat we should not use this, particularly when twisting the facts: this poor young boy was just a passer by, probably playing, not understanding the situation.

Shame on those who are playing with this death and the facts....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Than you should ask the red supporters here not to bring it up again and again in an attempt to make the government look bad

Nor to twist simple statements into abhorent political statements

that never were said or implied.

[Netfan]

I simply asked a question and am still waiting for an answer. Your answer appears to state these are poor citizens who live in the poor area but I have yet to see anyone else suggest this with any kind of proof.

you got your answer.

it just isnt consistent with your keyboard fantasy land to hear and acknowledge it.

completely innocent people die and are terrorized in REAL urban combat, even if that doesnt happen in the vivid world of fantasy between your ears.

that ten year old boy bled out because of people who think like you.

that 10 year old boy bled out because a drunken red shirt refused to stop at a checkpoint. when you say completely innocent people die and are terrorized in REAL urban combat are you rationalizing the shooting of rpg's at a hotel?

the reds have accomplished one of their goals - destroying Thailand as a tourist / business destination. they just fell short on bringing back their dear leader.

y

[BKjohn]

Department of State has authorized departure of all non-emergency US govt personnel & eligible family members fr #Bangkok.

I would guess that the US Embassy has more information on what is going to happen then anyone here. If they go to that stage, the &lt;deleted&gt; is going to hit the fan soon.

RED's go home before it is too late and if your leaders would care about your welfare they would hand themselves in and ask you to go home

John, With all respects, EVERYBODY understands what is going on. The 3pm deadline was issued yesterday, its just a touch before 2pm - no wonder the warning has been issued.

Seems to me that the reds are the only ones that don't understand - I was trying to convey the seriousness of the situation

[pornsasi]

He also claimed most foreigners supported the reds. (Well I for one do not)

Actually there is an important point here.

There are relatively few people involved in this whole mess. However there is a big propaganda war going on for the minds of Thais and international opinion.

A week ago Abhisit had won it. He had offered a compromise that I believe virtually everyone on this Board believes should have been accepted. I also believe he elicited international support for the way he handled the protests.

However the military crackdown is beginning to change things. The international press is turning against 'him' and/or the 'military'. Grass root support for the protesters is beginning to emerge from Klontoey etc. I am admittedly rather anti the military and their intentions. I am not really a Democrat but I fully respect the way Abhisit has handled the matter. Those die hard anti-Reds should realize that being too hard line will be counter productive in the medium term.

A pertinent point . One cant silence deep divisions with bullets

Reminds me of US in Vietnam and their so called "body count" .

The more reds die , the more the governement think they are winning .

Well ... we know otherwise

The press is nothing but a whore, prostituting themselves to revenue - facts come second or even third

You should not read the Nation only

[pornsasi]

Oh, Jerry, why do you change the side? May 68 in France I was street-fighter with Daniel Cohn-Bendit (now leader of the Green group in the European Parliament) in Paris. You was mediator (when I believe your posting in another topic) for the other side. There was violence of both sides (old toxic teargas from Vietnam with chlorine, CRS troops got crazy, other police troops needed to calms them down---anarchist groups fought back.). The mediations were successful, you did a good job). But your "mediation" here is the work of an old man who lost the sense for reality.

Too many red supporters are old lefts wishing to recapture their youth.

Blinded by the image of a red banner, they end up embracing Thaksin's rotten fish head.

The role of the CP in '68 as now is as perfidious as ever.

Hey welcome back .

I am sure we all always enjoy your colorful prose

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

CNN reporting 'the calm after the carnage', are they in the same Bangkok as me?

[Jingthing]

Oh, Jerry, why do you change the side? May 68 in France I was street-fighter with Daniel Cohn-Bendit (now leader of the Green group in the European Parliament) in Paris. You was mediator (when I believe your posting in another topic) for the other side. There was violence of both sides (old toxic teargas from Vietnam with chlorine, CRS troops got crazy, other police troops needed to calms them down---anarchist groups fought back.). The mediations were successful, you did a good job). But your "mediation" here is the work of an old man who lost the sense for reality.

Too many red supporters are old lefts wishing to recapture their youth.

Blinded by the image of a red banner, they end up embracing Thaksin's rotten fish head.

The role of the CP in '68 as now is as perfidious as ever.

I agree, some of them are like that. It is pitiful. Leftist politics in the west has NOTHING to do with the Thaksinista movement here.

[earthpig]

Just reading Asok/Sukhumvit junction is now being barricaded with tyres etc. Can anyone confirm if the mob has spread east along Sukhumvit?

again, its not a matter of the Reds surging out of Ratchaprasong. Red neighborhoods are uprising on all four points of the Bangkok compass.

As we saw yesterday at Klong Teoi, they are surging out of their neighborhoods with a very clear tactic: sandwich the army formations and cut them off from resupply.

What makes you think that only Reds can be surrounded? the army is far more vulnerable to encirclement because its supply base is not indiginous to sympathetic neighborhoods, and the materiel it requries is more complex.

TV posters have to stop looking at this as an issan invasion of RathaP. we are way passed that.

the assasination of Sae Deang has set off an uprising of Reds all over Bangkok and, it would seem from certain reports, perhaps over other parts of thailand.

there is no debate; the reds are armed, even if there arms are by themselves no match for thai army. but the reds have something that has greater currency on the field of battle: determination.

gentlemen, you need to open your eyes as to what is happening all around you. we live in a dangerous place becoming more dangerous by the day.