More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[animatic]

brahmburgers' post='Ever wonder where the Red-supporting posters on Thai Visa come from (and go to)?

They seem to come in groups, about 3 to 6 join within 2 days of each other, and they post frantically - each post stridently pro-Red, and the posters all use much the same phrasing and arguments, sometimes openly agreeing with each other. Then, after a few days, they seem to disappear. This pattern has happened about 5 times since mid-April.

Here's my theory. Ok, imagine a very rich man who's essentially bankrolling a demonstration in Bangkok (ok, you guessed who it is). He's seized by the idea that he's been cheated out of his power seat, but even more important (to him) that he's been cheated out of bazillions of baht. The power seat facilitated the massing of fortunes, but that's beside the point here.

So, he's got all this money and zeal, and he finds one or more English speakers who don't mind sitting in front of computers for several hours a day. Money for payment is no object. One adept writer could plausibly be sitting in front of two to four computers, with as many usernames, and just keep writing things that favor his employer. He's probably being coached, but that's also beside the point. And it doesn't have to be just Mr. Thaksin who's paying the piper (to play the tune), .....it could be any of his family or others he's close to. Actually, it's probably possible to log in with several names on one computer, I don't know.

You'll also notice, if you're watching this sort of thing, that most of the Red supporting posters currently online here, will probably be done posting in a day or two. Also, none of the suspects alluded to here have any personal info on their profile page.

Just a few thoughts.......

Right, crazy people cannot be crazy like this. We work hard to show some facts, we try to convince, some insult them. No reaction, they fart out the same. O.K., when I'm paid to post, I post, ...I follow my instructions.

Perception Management disinformation teams.

A form of Public Relations, where a lie or set of lies help sell what the client wants seen by the world.

So they attack all dissenting voices, and attempt to diminish their stature with others,

will incesently peppering the discussion with their talking points and background to make the lie set

seem more plausible, and work to tie it specifically to certain posters who's view they can massage

closer to their desired world view. Inadvertently backing the game plan while not intending to.

Some start out with pretend agreement with some real posters, and then after wards change style

and become propagandists, hopefully bringing 'their friend' along for the ride.

The Big Lie told often and by multiple voices so it seems more plausible.

Plus certain specialists repeatedly targeting those that tear the lies apart best.

This has been going on since well before LAST Songkran's debacle.

Of course the lies get massaged and keywords adapted over time to move the story forward.

Peaceful demonstrators become innocent civilians. No armed reds only freedom fighters.

Nothing by grannies and children in the camp, just those wanting 'democracy'. etc.

Then actions on the ground are created to tie in with the lies.

Snipers killing red shirt pawns randomly so the army can be blamed,

because army snipers are out hunting the snipers to protect the army's vertical flanks etc.

Psychological warfare against ALL OF US, and how we see a situation,

coupled with actual warfare all set to create an ongoing long term impression.

Incidious doesn't even begin to describe this tandem from hel_l.

Yes I believe this is true ... and I'm afraid they are winning the media war with these tactics.

I've seen a definite pattern that corroborates this too, new members spouting the same bs, each with exactly the same post count after only 1 day on the forum. Methodically posting under multiple identities I wonder?

This is a long term pattern I began to detect near 2 years back.

3 guys x 3 TVF niks can turn a lot of posts, add one supervisor attacking specific targets.

And a smaller alternate time zone team is possible too. Now multiply this by 5-10 for Thai forums.

Add those specializing in international media disinformation.

All newspapers have online researchers and they have habitual sources.

Economist, Time, Newsweek, IH Trib, Washington Post, NY Times, London Times, Manchester Guardian, Sun etc;

others have studied where these journals troll for information, by seeding ideas and seeing where they go.

And then salt those sites with their image to sell for this specific client. It's not just Thai Visa that is

the sole target of this campaign, this is also a vehicle for wider idea dissemination.

These wide distribution journals can then influence governments perceptions too.

And of course where Thaksin wants to do business he does a PR push, but more recently as his act

became better known, post Manchester City and UK expulsion, he had to try smaller markets

and prepared them in advance. Montenegro got very thoroughly done, so much that

Montenegrins came HERE to defend Thaksin.

Edited May 17, 2010 by animatic

[rogerx007]

On the why would anyone pay for posting here, my view is that there are those who understand that data on the internet can be useful in supporting a viewpoint. Very few are willing to deviate from the crowd, so if you search and find a viewpoint repeated, expanded and apparently from many voices, the viewpoint has 'stickiness'. There are also companies who use bots to review and trawl the net looking for trends which they then report upon to their clients [including publishing companies].

Creating traffic here, adding a specific viewpoint, could be useful, is it being done?, maybe, there are consultancies who work with legal firms who's task it is to raise such an awareness.

Just here on it's own, no, but as part of a concerted medium term media operation, why not? With the right targeting you can sell just about anything.

Regards

PS This is done all the time in the US to help with 'grass roots' organisations, though they are called Astro-Turfs, for obvious reasons.

I understand that....I read and article about China's 50 cents army covering the same thing... and its understandable if you talk about CNN, BBC etc...

But ThaiVisa....

Logic says you target the main high traffic sites suitable for such interaction. Owing to its track record this site would be probably number 1 on the list. I'll also repeat that this would only be part of a more complex coordinated operation. I'm not saying that it is happening, though I do suspect some posters veracity, but it would be an effective arm in such a strategy.

Regards

IMHO .... Possible but improbable..

[lungmi]

[quote name='animatic' post='3611852'

You guys have vivid imagination .... why would anybody pay to post and that too at ThaiVisa.... does any of the views expressed here matter in the real world..

Though I won't mind getting paid for posting for anybody...

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

There must be.... not denying it....

but why ?with

I just want to know the benefit of winning a forum war visited by few thousand farangs/expats whose thoughts counts nothing outside this forum...

Read the posting of animatic: He explains the system how to manipulate the opinion of normal people. It's one part of the war of words. War with weapons is not enough, you need a whole system. Al Khaida uses the Internet and we had in Germany ethnic german youngsters going to Pakistan to learn how to make bombs. Even the Wiki page for Thaksin has been "doctored" a little bit by his PR-Power .

[rogerx007]

I won't mind getting paid for posting for anybody..

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

Just to be clear. Are you you suggesting this is one of them? Fits the profile...

So do you buddy.

oh yeah... m the paid one... cud u help me get my money from Thaksin...

[seahorse]

Welcome to the 4th world.

Thanks very much. Greetings from Earth. We come in peace.

Perhaps there is an induction course or (shudder) an initiation ceremony?

[rogerx007]

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

There must be.... not denying it....

but why ?with

I just want to know the benefit of winning a forum war visited by few thousand farangs/expats whose thoughts counts nothing outside this forum...

Read the posting of animatic: He explains the system how to manipulate the opinion of normal people. It's one part of the war of words. War with weapons is not enough, you need a whole system. Al Khaida uses the Internet and we had in Germany ethnic german youngsters going to Pakistan to learn how to make bombs. Even the Wiki page for Thaksin has been "doctored" a little bit by his PR-Power .

I am not saying it doesn't happen or not happenning right now ... am just saying that is unlikely to happen at ThaiVisa...

They must be using it on Bangkok post or other social networking sites..

[hextac]

This is a long term pattern I began to detect near 2 years back.

3 guys x 3 TVF niks can turn a lot of posts, add one supervisor attacking specific targets.

And a smaller alternate time zone team is possible too. Now multiply this by 5-10 for Thai forums.

Add those specializing in international media disinformation.

Economist, Time, Newsweek, Washington Post NYTimes, London Times, and Manchester Guardian, Sun etc;

others have studied where these journals troll for information, by seeding ideas and seeing where they go.

And then salt those sites with their image to sell for this specific client. It's not just Thai Visa that is

the sole target of this campaign, this is also a vehicle for wider idea dissemination.

And of course where Thaksin wants to do business he does a PR push, but more recently as his act

became better known, post Manchester City and UK expulsion, he had to try smaller markets

and prepared them in advance. Montenegtro got very thoroughly done, so much that

Montenegrins came HERE to defend Thaksin.

Paranoid, much?

[jcbangkok]

[quote name='animatic' post='3611852'

You guys have vivid imagination .... why would anybody pay to post and that too at ThaiVisa.... does any of the views expressed here matter in the real world..

Though I won't mind getting paid for posting for anybody...

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

either paid or drinking the red yaa baa laced Cool-aid

[jcbangkok]

What are the odds that the protest ends before June 1st?

My crystal balls indicate ... the outlook is extremely positive

[seahorse]

I won't mind getting paid for posting for anybody..

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

Just to be clear. Are you you suggesting this is one of them? Fits the profile...

So do you buddy.

I am not a one issue, one message troll.

[dttk0009]

What are the odds that the protest ends before June 1st?

My crystal balls indicate ... the outlook is extremely positive

One can only hope.

[hextac]

Its pretty clear there are paid posters here, all on the red side.

Just to be clear. Are you you suggesting this is one of them? Fits the profile...

So do you buddy.

I am not a one issue, one message troll.

Quite sure about that? A swift check of your posting history begs to differ....

[jcbangkok]

One more prediction ... There will be a strong move by the army at dawn to move the illegal mob out. Not sure what but they need to go into phase II pretty quick here since there is only 1 more "holiday" left.

This of course assumes there was communications about the Holiday and the military doesn't think these 2-days were for them to get rest.

[AleG]

democracy and freedom are the reds goal, but if that is ever achieved why are they told they must vote Phua Thai

isn't that a contradiction in terms.........?

and are the likely to that now when they were abandoned in their hour of need by these cowards?

QUESTION TO RED SUPPORTERS

Sorry for the big bold lettering, I normally don't do that but I want to get attention here.

The question, or request actually.

Can you show us one instance of the red shirt leadership putting something up to a vote with their followers?

After the roadmap offer it's my understanding that the red shirt hoi polloi was very positive about it, but the red elite went to their container and by themselves decided not to accept it.

All I have seen so far has been a top to bottom hierarchy, not very democratic it may seem.

[seahorse]

This is a long term pattern I began to detect near 2 years back.

3 guys x 3 TVF niks can turn a lot of posts, add one supervisor attacking specific targets.

And a smaller alternate time zone team is possible too. Now multiply this by 5-10 for Thai forums.

Add those specializing in international media disinformation.

All newspapers have online researchers and they have habitual sources.

Economist, Time, Newsweek, IH Trib, Washington Post, NY Times, London Times, Manchester Guardian, Sun etc;

others have studied where these journals troll for information, by seeding ideas and seeing where they go.

And then salt those sites with their image to sell for this specific client. It's not just Thai Visa that is

the sole target of this campaign, this is also a vehicle for wider idea dissemination.

These wide distribution journals can then influence governments perceptions too.

And of course where Thaksin wants to do business he does a PR push, but more recently as his act

became better known, post Manchester City and UK expulsion, he had to try smaller markets

and prepared them in advance. Montenegro got very thoroughly done, so much that

Montenegrins came HERE to defend Thaksin.

Perhaps one of the moderators could confirm this? Are statistics kept of logins and IP numbers, etc, etc?

Bolded part - you mean like a London-based Public Relations Consultant?

[kissdani]

THANONG:Nation 17 05 2010

The purpose of this post is to quickly impart law-based information to inquiries perplexing some Thais and non-Thais. I reckon this is in the interest of the State and national reconciliation. If possible, please disseminate the information to all across the land.

This is also to remind all Thais (and non-Thais living in Thailand) of our duty to be familiar with our own law. Ignorance is not an excuse. Self-imposed illiteracy is vice, particularly when the nation is under crisis.

NOTE: This post is not contending whether the prescribed law is right or wrong. The data presented are not avowing whether the current law is just or unjust. This is simply to brief Thais and non-Thais to the reality of our Thai law as it presently is.

QUESTION: Can the government freeze bank accounts of anyone residing within Thai territory under Emergency Decree?

ANSWER: Yes.

QUESTION: Does the government have to first obtain permission from the court?

ANSWER: No. That is one arbitrary right of the government under the Emergency Decree. Declaration of Emergency implies that the government can exercise actions which do not need court authorization as long as the actions are sanctioned by law.

Freezing back accounts of suspects the government deems as perpetrators of the national crisis is one arbitrary permit. The caveat is simply that there is sufficient reason to consider them as suspects assisting or perpetrating the crimes against the State.

QUESTION: If the government or security forces believe I am a perpetrator, can they also arrest me without a court-issued warrant?

ANSWER: Yes.

QUESTION: Do I not have any right to resist or defend myself?

ANSWER: No – at least not at that particular moment in time. Your only right – under that particular moment – is to surrender to the arrest. If you are placed under detention, you only right – under that particular moment – is to comply. You can file the appeals later with the court, if you consider the government or security forces behaved outside the confines of law under the Emergency Decree.

QUESTION: Can the security forces execute me if I resist?

ANSWER: That depends on the nature of your resistance:

If you use a non-penetrating weapon to fight the security forces (e.g., batons, clubs, sticks, nunchaks - or even empty hand strikes such as punching or kicking), the security forces can counter with a constraining force (i.e., beat you into submission or take you down using any mechanisms to accomplish this end - just short of actually killing you).

If you use a penetrating weapon (e.g, knife, spear, sword, guns or grenades), the security forces can counter with lethal force (kill you right on the spot).

QUESTION: What if I throw stones or use slingshots?

ANSWER: Objects based on propelled trajectories are commonly though loosely classified as penetrating weapons. Thus, throwing stones or using slingshots can legally be countered by the security forces with lethal (deadly) force.

QUESTION: What if I just fight empty-handed?

ANSWER: Two elements are generally considered with respect empty-hand resistance. One is the actual physical assault itself. The other is the “intent” of the empty-hand assault.

If the intent of the fist strike, elbow strike, knee strike, leg strike or even a head-butt is viewed as to “kill or severely injure” the security troops, the troops can counter with lethal force. If the strike is viewed as merely to detract the troops from advancing, then the troops are expected to just counter with constraining force.

QUESTION: Going strictly by the penal codes, can the security forces then execute me right on the spot if I just strike them with my fist or elbow or knee or leg or head butt - or even just throw stones or use slingshots at them?

ANSWER: If the security forces view your empty-hand strikes or stones or slingshots as with intent to “kill or severely injure”, then yes – they can constitutionally and legally kill you right on the spot during an Emergency Decree.

QUESTION: So what should a person do when the region is under Emergency Decree?

ANSWER: Do what the government and the security forces tell you. Avoid confrontation with them at all times. Stay out of their path. If they arrest you, do not resist. If they place you under detention, follow their dictates until you can subsequently file the appeal with the court.

In other words, understand the law and use common sense. This also means that – under Emergency Decree – it is stark stupidity to claim “But I did not use a gun or grenade or knife or sward or spear. I was only fighting with my bare hands or just throwing stones or using slingshots.” Illiterates of law commonly do that.

This <deleted> forgot to justify murdering someone dancing around waving a flag about in the air.

Or demanding election before Abhisit had the chance to install his favorite generals as the army heads. That is the most criminal act of the terrorists.

[seahorse]

QUESTION TO RED SUPPORTERS

Can you show us one instance of the red shirt leadership putting something up to a vote with their followers?

Good question. It's all about democracy, after all.

[A_Traveller]

@seahorse My understanding here is the IP data is available within the software, but only to Administration level.

Regards

Edited May 17, 2010 by A_Traveller

[yoshiwara]

THANONG:Nation 17 05 2010

The purpose of this post is to quickly impart law-based information to inquiries perplexing some Thais and non-Thais. I reckon this is in the interest of the State and national reconciliation. If possible, please disseminate the information to all across the land.

This is also to remind all Thais (and non-Thais living in Thailand) of our duty to be familiar with our own law. Ignorance is not an excuse. Self-imposed illiteracy is vice, particularly when the nation is under crisis.

NOTE: This post is not contending whether the prescribed law is right or wrong. The data presented are not avowing whether the current law is just or unjust. This is simply to brief Thais and non-Thais to the reality of our Thai law as it presently is.

QUESTION: Can the government freeze bank accounts of anyone residing within Thai territory under Emergency Decree?

ANSWER: Yes.

QUESTION: Does the government have to first obtain permission from the court?

ANSWER: No. That is one arbitrary right of the government under the Emergency Decree. Declaration of Emergency implies that the government can exercise actions which do not need court authorization as long as the actions are sanctioned by law.

Freezing back accounts of suspects the government deems as perpetrators of the national crisis is one arbitrary permit. The caveat is simply that there is sufficient reason to consider them as suspects assisting or perpetrating the crimes against the State.

QUESTION: If the government or security forces believe I am a perpetrator, can they also arrest me without a court-issued warrant?

ANSWER: Yes.

QUESTION: Do I not have any right to resist or defend myself?

ANSWER: No – at least not at that particular moment in time. Your only right – under that particular moment – is to surrender to the arrest. If you are placed under detention, you only right – under that particular moment – is to comply. You can file the appeals later with the court, if you consider the government or security forces behaved outside the confines of law under the Emergency Decree.

QUESTION: Can the security forces execute me if I resist?

ANSWER: That depends on the nature of your resistance:

If you use a non-penetrating weapon to fight the security forces (e.g., batons, clubs, sticks, nunchaks - or even empty hand strikes such as punching or kicking), the security forces can counter with a constraining force (i.e., beat you into submission or take you down using any mechanisms to accomplish this end - just short of actually killing you).

If you use a penetrating weapon (e.g, knife, spear, sword, guns or grenades), the security forces can counter with lethal force (kill you right on the spot).

QUESTION: What if I throw stones or use slingshots?

ANSWER: Objects based on propelled trajectories are commonly though loosely classified as penetrating weapons. Thus, throwing stones or using slingshots can legally be countered by the security forces with lethal (deadly) force.

QUESTION: What if I just fight empty-handed?

ANSWER: Two elements are generally considered with respect empty-hand resistance. One is the actual physical assault itself. The other is the “intent” of the empty-hand assault.

If the intent of the fist strike, elbow strike, knee strike, leg strike or even a head-butt is viewed as to “kill or severely injure” the security troops, the troops can counter with lethal force. If the strike is viewed as merely to detract the troops from advancing, then the troops are expected to just counter with constraining force.

QUESTION: Going strictly by the penal codes, can the security forces then execute me right on the spot if I just strike them with my fist or elbow or knee or leg or head butt - or even just throw stones or use slingshots at them?

ANSWER: If the security forces view your empty-hand strikes or stones or slingshots as with intent to “kill or severely injure”, then yes – they can constitutionally and legally kill you right on the spot during an Emergency Decree.

QUESTION: So what should a person do when the region is under Emergency Decree?

ANSWER: Do what the government and the security forces tell you. Avoid confrontation with them at all times. Stay out of their path. If they arrest you, do not resist. If they place you under detention, follow their dictates until you can subsequently file the appeal with the court.

In other words, understand the law and use common sense. This also means that – under Emergency Decree – it is stark stupidity to claim “But I did not use a gun or grenade or knife or sward or spear. I was only fighting with my bare hands or just throwing stones or using slingshots.” Illiterates of law commonly do that.

This <deleted> forgot to justify murdering someone dancing around waving a flag about in the air.

Or demanding election before Abhisit had the chance to install his favorite generals as the army heads. That is the most criminal act of the terrorists.

Looks like Thaksin is going to fail in his main objective.

Making the army his private property.

No wonder you are unhappy.

Mission failed.

[whybother]

democracy and freedom are the reds goal, but if that is ever achieved why are they told they must vote Phua Thai

isn't that a contradiction in terms.........?

and are the likely to that now when they were abandoned in their hour of need by these cowards?

QUESTION TO RED SUPPORTERS

Sorry for the big bold lettering, I normally don't do that but I want to get attention here.

The question, or request actually.

Can you show us one instance of the red shirt leadership putting something up to a vote with their followers?

After the roadmap offer it's my understanding that the red shirt hoi polloi was very positive about it, but the red elite went to their container and by themselves decided not to accept it.

All I have seen so far has been a top to bottom hierarchy, not very democratic it may seem.

In defense of the reds shirts (sorry), I don't know of any of my Thai friends being consulted about Abhisit's decisions.

If the red followers don't agree, they are quite welcome to leave (maybe).

Whether the red followers really know what's going on is another question.

[rogerdee123]

On the why would anyone pay for posting here, my view is that there are those who understand that data on the internet can be useful in supporting a viewpoint. Very few are willing to deviate from the crowd, so if you search and find a viewpoint repeated, expanded and apparently from many voices, the viewpoint has 'stickiness'. There are also companies who use bots to review and trawl the net looking for trends which they then report upon to their clients [including publishing companies].

Creating traffic here, adding a specific viewpoint, could be useful, is it being done?, maybe, there are consultancies who work with legal firms who's task it is to raise such an awareness.

Just here on it's own, no, but as part of a concerted medium term media operation, why not? With the right targeting you can sell just about anything.

Regards

PS This is done all the time in the US to help with 'grass roots' organisations, though they are called Astro-Turfs, for obvious reasons.

Good follow-up post!

Usually you can identify the drones from their huge number of posts within a couple of days (some just joined today) and take a look at their posts .... kind of semi-trolling ... maybe there is a technical word for that in cyber speak.

But this is also happening on the CNN, BBC, Economist and other international news websites. When someone, usually an obvious resident of Bkk ("I see them right outside my apartment and they are shooting at soldiers"), makes a post about the Reds being armed or whatever ... they are immediately snowed under with posts and sometimes personal attacks asking for proof and phrases like "so you condone a Govt shooting it's own people" or "that video is two years old" etc etc.

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

[rogerx007]

Nation's website :

veen_NT: She "Khun A" went w/ a Malaysian friend was surprised 2 C Thaksin shopping in LV shop on the day Thailand is in a big mess.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about holding a TV award function when Thailand is in a big mess....

I don't think except for us at ThaiVisa anybody even cares for this situation.... lol

[whybother]

Or demanding election before Abhisit had the chance to install his favorite generals as the army heads. That is the most criminal act of the terrorists.

That's a silly statement (sorry ... have to be nice on here) considering it's the aim of both sides to control the reshuffle.

[TAWP]

I've been out most of the day but I recall reading that there was video somewhere of Black Shirt armed combatants speaking Burmese to each other. Has there been any more information regarding that that has come to light? What's it mean? Anyone?

Someone said that it wasn't Burmese, but a north-easter dialect.

And then we remember when the proxy-government brought in the forest police from the same region and they used tougher measures on the PAD demonstrators (4 dead in one afternoon IIRC) - so who knows, could be something to it.

[A_Traveller]

@rogerx007: Why shouldn't' people decide to live their lives without being terrorised into hiding in their homes? Actually the acceptance speech by Pongpat Wachirabunjong touched a strong nerve with many Thais who have seen it.

For me the brave people here are those who, for example took their children to the school on Sunday just like a normal day.

Regards

[seahorse]

Picture of hostage

Another terrorist victim.

[rogerx007]

@rogerx007: Why shouldn't' people decide to live their lives without being terrorised into hiding in their homes? Actually the acceptance speech by Pongpat Wachirabunjong touched a strong nerve with many Thais who have seen it.

For me the brave people here are those who, for example took their children to the school on Sunday just like a normal day.

Regards

It was a very touching speech...

I am just commenting on that message I saw on Nation...

[animatic]

This is a long term pattern I began to detect near 2 years back.

3 guys x 3 TVF niks can turn a lot of posts, add one supervisor attacking specific targets.

And a smaller alternate time zone team is possible too. Now multiply this by 5-10 for Thai forums.

Add those specializing in international media disinformation.

Economist, Time, Newsweek, Washington Post NYTimes, London Times, and Manchester Guardian, Sun etc;

others have studied where these journals troll for information, by seeding ideas and seeing where they go.

And then salt those sites with their image to sell for this specific client. It's not just Thai Visa that is

the sole target of this campaign, this is also a vehicle for wider idea dissemination.

And of course where Thaksin wants to do business he does a PR push, but more recently as his act

became better known, post Manchester City and UK expulsion, he had to try smaller markets

and prepared them in advance. Montenegtro got very thoroughly done, so much that

Montenegrins came HERE to defend Thaksin.

Paranoid, much?

LOL nice try.

[hextac]

democracy and freedom are the reds goal, but if that is ever achieved why are they told they must vote Phua Thai

isn't that a contradiction in terms.........?

and are the likely to that now when they were abandoned in their hour of need by these cowards?

QUESTION TO RED SUPPORTERS

Sorry for the big bold lettering, I normally don't do that but I want to get attention here.

The question, or request actually.

Can you show us one instance of the red shirt leadership putting something up to a vote with their followers?

After the roadmap offer it's my understanding that the red shirt hoi polloi was very positive about it, but the red elite went to their container and by themselves decided not to accept it.

All I have seen so far has been a top to bottom hierarchy, not very democratic it may seem.

In defense of the reds shirts (sorry), I don't know of any of my Thai friends being consulted about Abhisit's decisions.

If the red followers don't agree, they are quite welcome to leave (maybe).

Whether the red followers really know what's going on is another question.

You see,

This is the problem on this forum. I can't think of any "real" poster on here that is a "Red Supporter". But, it seems that anyone who even dares to question the common "party line" - which is extremely anti-red and pro-government is branded as such.

[hammered]

On the why would anyone pay for posting here, my view is that there are those who understand that data on the internet can be useful in supporting a viewpoint. Very few are willing to deviate from the crowd, so if you search and find a viewpoint repeated, expanded and apparently from many voices, the viewpoint has 'stickiness'. There are also companies who use bots to review and trawl the net looking for trends which they then report upon to their clients [including publishing companies].

Creating traffic here, adding a specific viewpoint, could be useful, is it being done?, maybe, there are consultancies who work with legal firms who's task it is to raise such an awareness.

Just here on it's own, no, but as part of a concerted medium term media operation, why not? With the right targeting you can sell just about anything.

Regards

PS This is done all the time in the US to help with 'grass roots' organisations, though they are called Astro-Turfs, for obvious reasons.

Good follow-up post!

Usually you can identify the drones from their huge number of posts within a couple of days (some just joined today) and take a look at their posts .... kind of semi-trolling ... maybe there is a technical word for that in cyber speak.

But this is also happening on the CNN, BBC, Economist and other international news websites. When someone, usually an obvious resident of Bkk ("I see them right outside my apartment and they are shooting at soldiers"), makes a post about the Reds being armed or whatever ... they are immediately snowed under with posts and sometimes personal attacks asking for proof and phrases like "so you condone a Govt shooting it's own people" or "that video is two years old" etc etc.

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Modern PR does this and when you employ a PR company they will take care of this for you. Thaksin is well ahead in this PR game. It is not about reality but whatever BS you can get people to believe and if you can get the media to buy it (and they often do as they have their deadlines and entertainment and fitting the facts to convenient stories to meet) then you are almost there. Never believe anythign you read, see or hear and you wont go far wrong these days. However that only lkeaves belief and that is where we are.