More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[dttk0009]

One more prediction ... There will be a strong move by the army at dawn to move the illegal mob out. Not sure what but they need to go into phase II pretty quick here since there is only 1 more "holiday" left.

This of course assumes there was communications about the Holiday and the military doesn't think these 2-days were for them to get rest.

My guess is that the government and military wants to use as much time as possible to evacuate innocents and to create enough safe houses as possible. They need to be fully prepared in terms of hospitalization as well. They must have had good reasons to not move in today. I'm hoping that the final push will be massive. They're going to really have to put the foot down to get these people off the road. Quite obviously they are no longer under anyone's control. Random drugged up mobs running amok throughout the city with no leadership, ruining the lives of the people who live in those areas, absolutely detestable.

Does the Thai military have attack helicopters like the Apache? Would be incredibly useful in this case. After two groups of insurgents get wiped off the street with beer bottle sized bullets I'm sure their friends will decide to go home.

Edited May 17, 2010 by dttk0009

[hextac]

This is a long term pattern I began to detect near 2 years back.

3 guys x 3 TVF niks can turn a lot of posts, add one supervisor attacking specific targets.

And a smaller alternate time zone team is possible too. Now multiply this by 5-10 for Thai forums.

Add those specializing in international media disinformation.

Economist, Time, Newsweek, Washington Post NYTimes, London Times, and Manchester Guardian, Sun etc;

others have studied where these journals troll for information, by seeding ideas and seeing where they go.

And then salt those sites with their image to sell for this specific client. It's not just Thai Visa that is

the sole target of this campaign, this is also a vehicle for wider idea dissemination.

And of course where Thaksin wants to do business he does a PR push, but more recently as his act

became better known, post Manchester City and UK expulsion, he had to try smaller markets

and prepared them in advance. Montenegtro got very thoroughly done, so much that

Montenegrins came HERE to defend Thaksin.

Paranoid, much?

LOL nice try.

Detect or attract?

[seahorse]

A swift check of your posting history begs to differ....

You skimmed and scanned all of my posts in a couple of minutes? Man, you're good.

[lilkitty]

Update: Govt may soon leak financial info of some red leaders that could make many jaws drop. /via @tulsathit

What I would like to see is the government stating on live TV how Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the biggest companies financing the yellow PAD, which then resulted in his son becomign Prime Minister.

[rogerdee123]

On the twitter news I see that the Govt may be leaking the financial details of the Red leaders .... hmmm .... any bets on a very quick compromise offer by the red leaders to keep this info away from public eyes ?

But of course they can say it's Govt lies ... in which case the Govt should ask them what the amount is suppose to be and then confiscate the rest to pay for some of the damages they have caused.

[datum]

I want to explain why I joined the forum and why I am posting here. I try to learn more about the political situation and I try to have various sources of information. I follow the international news channels (usually in the Internet because I do not like TV) everyday, I but both the Nation and Bangkok Post, I follow some blogs of people I trust and I talk to my colleagues in the office. I wanted also to follow a forum of people that they live here and i found the thaivisa. ......

Sir,

I do not know how long you have been in Thailand. Certainly on this forum there are people with an in-depth knowledge of the situations and they do know the roots of the current events. Also numerous Thai friends are posting on this forum. you can notice we have different opinions, we learnalso from each other. We cannot answer you simply because it will take hours -even days- to explain the accumulated factors driving to those historical moments. I will just give you some very rough axis of researches.

First the Thai Culture (Asian/ Budhist) very different from the Christian/ western, with different appreciation like value of a life...

secondly the Thai History, including the construction of modern Thailand through an unification process... the exchange of territories which explain some details relative to Issan. The Chinese immigration and influence on Thai affairs....

Thirdly the Institutions about which we cannot talk on this forum

Quaterly some roots of the present conflict can be located in the aftermaith of the Vietnam war (Militias, weaponry smuggling)

......

So the situation is far more complex than it may appear in the International press.

Work hard......

Hallelujah! This is the kind of dialog I am looking in this forum. Finally a reply that it doesn't mention Abhisit, Thaksin and all the usual.

Thank you for these points. I do understand the complexity and the multi-dimensional character of the conflict. I do believe also that on top of all these parameters (religion, history of Thai nation, institutions) the very big inequality in Thailand is making things even more difficult. I've recently read a UN report about the human development in Thailand. It is very recent and published just some months ago. Before I quote a specific finding of the report I want to mention that this report has been produced by a joint committee comprising the UN, the Thai Government, NGOs, private sector and media. It has been reviewed and approved by the Thai government and signed on behalf of the Government by the Thai Minister of Social Development and human Security (Issara Somhcai). I would suggest to anyone that wants to have a very thorough overview of Thailand's development challenges to download and read the report (it is quite extensive though, 170 pages). The report could be downloaded at:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/nationalrep...e,19749,en.html

There is a section in inequality with the title "Confronting Persistent Inequality". The main message in the chapter is the following:

"Thailand is a very unequal society. There is growing awareness that inequality lies at the root of several forms of human insecurity, including rising political conflict." (page 78 of the report)

The report shows also how this inequality determines people's vote and how inequality is at it's worst form in Thailand comparing to other neighboring countries in South-East Asia (for more info read all the chapter).

So there is certainly a reason for people not being happy and wanting change and this need to change is expressed at this point of the Thai history with a very violent way. I think that if reds, yellows and everybody else will put issues like the inequality in the centre of the political and confrontational agenda we will see good things happening. The problem is (and it is very obvious in this forum) that the discussion about persons (Thaksin, Abhisit, etc.) is not allowing the confronting groups to find the solutions to these persistent problems.

[rogerdee123]

Update: Govt may soon leak financial info of some red leaders that could make many jaws drop. /via @tulsathit

What I would like to see is the government stating on live TV how Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the biggest companies financing the yellow PAD, which then resulted in his son becomign Prime Minister.

deleted by poster

Edited May 17, 2010 by rogerdee123

[lannarebirth]

I've been out most of the day but I recall reading that there was video somewhere of Black Shirt armed combatants speaking Burmese to each other. Has there been any more information regarding that that has come to light? What's it mean? Anyone?

Someone said that it wasn't Burmese, but a north-easter dialect.

And then we remember when the proxy-government brought in the forest police from the same region and they used tougher measures on the PAD demonstrators (4 dead in one afternoon IIRC) - so who knows, could be something to it.

Thanks

[Democrat]

One more prediction ... There will be a strong move by the army at dawn to move the illegal mob out. Not sure what but they need to go into phase II pretty quick here since there is only 1 more "holiday" left.

This of course assumes there was communications about the Holiday and the military doesn't think these 2-days were for them to get rest.

My guess is that the government and military wants to use as much time as possible to evacuate innocents and to create enough safe houses as possible. They need to be fully prepared in terms of hospitalization as well. They must have had good reasons to not move in today. I'm hoping that the final push will be massive. They're going to really have to put the foot down to get these people off the road. Quite obviously they are no longer under anyone's control. Random drugged up mobs running amok throughout the city with no leadership, ruining the lives of the people who live in those areas, absolutely detestable.

Does the Thai military have attack helicopters like the Apache? Would be incredibly useful in this case. After two groups of insurgents get wiped off the street with beer bottle sized bullets I'm sure their friends will decide to go home.

The Army can deploy their bomb detectors and airships, that will help immensely. And the medical rebates hopefully will be repaid to the people.

[hextac]

A swift check of your posting history begs to differ....

You skimmed and scanned all of my posts in a couple of minutes? Man, you're good.

Yes sir I am.

[dttk0009]

One more prediction ... There will be a strong move by the army at dawn to move the illegal mob out. Not sure what but they need to go into phase II pretty quick here since there is only 1 more "holiday" left.

This of course assumes there was communications about the Holiday and the military doesn't think these 2-days were for them to get rest.

My guess is that the government and military wants to use as much time as possible to evacuate innocents and to create enough safe houses as possible. They need to be fully prepared in terms of hospitalization as well. They must have had good reasons to not move in today. I'm hoping that the final push will be massive. They're going to really have to put the foot down to get these people off the road. Quite obviously they are no longer under anyone's control. Random drugged up mobs running amok throughout the city with no leadership, ruining the lives of the people who live in those areas, absolutely detestable.

Does the Thai military have attack helicopters like the Apache? Would be incredibly useful in this case. After two groups of insurgents get wiped off the street with beer bottle sized bullets I'm sure their friends will decide to go home.

The Army can deploy their bomb detectors and airships, that will help immensely. And the medical rebates hopefully will be repaid to the people.

Speaking of repay, who's going to repay all the people who live in Silom who's lives were put on hold, and in many cases, ruined. Who's going to pay for the busses? The clean up? Who's going to pay for the immense amount of damage to public property. Surely not the red shirts as their 500 baht daily are received tax free. Do you pay taxes here? If you do, you're paying for this.

Edited May 17, 2010 by dttk0009

[hextac]

I've been out most of the day but I recall reading that there was video somewhere of Black Shirt armed combatants speaking Burmese to each other. Has there been any more information regarding that that has come to light? What's it mean? Anyone?

Someone said that it wasn't Burmese, but a north-easter dialect.

And then we remember when the proxy-government brought in the forest police from the same region and they used tougher measures on the PAD demonstrators (4 dead in one afternoon IIRC) - so who knows, could be something to it.

There was an interesting cameo by the real blackshirts on a report from VOA Burmese News a few days ago.

Edited May 17, 2010 by hextac

[ThaiFelix]

One more prediction ... There will be a strong move by the army at dawn to move the illegal mob out. Not sure what but they need to go into phase II pretty quick here since there is only 1 more "holiday" left.

This of course assumes there was communications about the Holiday and the military doesn't think these 2-days were for them to get rest.

My guess is that the government and military wants to use as much time as possible to evacuate innocents and to create enough safe houses as possible. They need to be fully prepared in terms of hospitalization as well. They must have had good reasons to not move in today. I'm hoping that the final push will be massive. They're going to really have to put the foot down to get these people off the road. Quite obviously they are no longer under anyone's control. Random drugged up mobs running amok throughout the city with no leadership, ruining the lives of the people who live in those areas, absolutely detestable.

Does the Thai military have attack helicopters like the Apache? Would be incredibly useful in this case. After two groups of insurgents get wiped off the street with beer bottle sized bullets I'm sure their friends will decide to go home.

The Army can deploy their bomb detectors and airships, that will help immensely. And the medical rebates hopefully will be repaid to the people.

[lannarebirth]

I want to explain why I joined the forum and why I am posting here. I try to learn more about the political situation and I try to have various sources of information. I follow the international news channels (usually in the Internet because I do not like TV) everyday, I but both the Nation and Bangkok Post, I follow some blogs of people I trust and I talk to my colleagues in the office. I wanted also to follow a forum of people that they live here and i found the thaivisa. ......

Sir,

I do not know how long you have been in Thailand. Certainly on this forum there are people with an in-depth knowledge of the situations and they do know the roots of the current events. Also numerous Thai friends are posting on this forum. you can notice we have different opinions, we learnalso from each other. We cannot answer you simply because it will take hours -even days- to explain the accumulated factors driving to those historical moments. I will just give you some very rough axis of researches.

First the Thai Culture (Asian/ Budhist) very different from the Christian/ western, with different appreciation like value of a life...

secondly the Thai History, including the construction of modern Thailand through an unification process... the exchange of territories which explain some details relative to Issan. The Chinese immigration and influence on Thai affairs....

Thirdly the Institutions about which we cannot talk on this forum

Quaterly some roots of the present conflict can be located in the aftermaith of the Vietnam war (Militias, weaponry smuggling)

......

So the situation is far more complex than it may appear in the International press.

Work hard......

Hallelujah! This is the kind of dialog I am looking in this forum. Finally a reply that it doesn't mention Abhisit, Thaksin and all the usual.

Thank you for these points. I do understand the complexity and the multi-dimensional character of the conflict. I do believe also that on top of all these parameters (religion, history of Thai nation, institutions) the very big inequality in Thailand is making things even more difficult. I've recently read a UN report about the human development in Thailand. It is very recent and published just some months ago. Before I quote a specific finding of the report I want to mention that this report has been produced by a joint committee comprising the UN, the Thai Government, NGOs, private sector and media. It has been reviewed and approved by the Thai government and signed on behalf of the Government by the Thai Minister of Social Development and human Security (Issara Somhcai). I would suggest to anyone that wants to have a very thorough overview of Thailand's development challenges to download and read the report (it is quite extensive though, 170 pages). The report could be downloaded at:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/nationalrep...e,19749,en.html

There is a section in inequality with the title "Confronting Persistent Inequality". The main message in the chapter is the following:

"Thailand is a very unequal society. There is growing awareness that inequality lies at the root of several forms of human insecurity, including rising political conflict." (page 78 of the report)

The report shows also how this inequality determines people's vote and how inequality is at it's worst form in Thailand comparing to other neighboring countries in South-East Asia (for more info read all the chapter).

So there is certainly a reason for people not being happy and wanting change and this need to change is expressed at this point of the Thai history with a very violent way. I think that if reds, yellows and everybody else will put issues like the inequality in the centre of the political and confrontational agenda we will see good things happening. The problem is (and it is very obvious in this forum) that the discussion about persons (Thaksin, Abhisit, etc.) is not allowing the confronting groups to find the solutions to these persistent problems.

Its a valid study you cite but what it doesn't say is that the current government is the only government ever to attempt to redress this inequality in a sustainable way. It is the fear that it may have some measure of success (and it already has) that leads the fuedal power elite (who will be diminished by the welfare state) to fund this conflict and use their propaganda to rally largely peaceful yet ignorant supporters, together with a much more malevolent force to halt political change. You came to the board the other day talking about political solutions and those will still be possible, eventually; but that's not where we are at today. Today there is a battle raging for the survival of the state from foreign based aggressors.

Edited May 17, 2010 by lannarebirth

[seahorse]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

[hextac]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

By now surely you know that they are only following the Animatic Roadmap to Forum Domination. There's probably only 3 paid farangs disputing his stuff.

[seahorse]

A swift check of your posting history begs to differ....

You skimmed and scanned all of my posts in a couple of minutes? Man, you're good.

Yes sir I am.

Might I suggest you actually read some before forming an opinion?

Thank you.

[Neilly]

That baby shouldn't be there in the first place, you're right. But also:

Nobody shooting at the baby = baby not human shield.

OMG - did you just say that unless someone actually physically shots the baby it is not a human shield?

Prediction ... you will soon be using the Ignore feature.

It's the only way to shut that ruddy cat up...got fed up reading it's c_rap two days ago

[rabo]

@seahorse My understanding here is the IP data is available within the software, but only to Administration level.

Regards

I have a phpbb3 forum, which should be similar. The admin has full rights to do anything. User names and account info are all contained in a single database. The admin can save or backup this database, which is in a text format. If saved as text, any common software can be used for searching and matching user names and IP information. Passwords are there but encrypted. It may be possible to at least match them as well. Once in text format the admin can allow others, i.e., moderators to study and search this file and the time to do so would be minimal. (But I bet our fine mods are rather busy right now)

There may be easier ways, but this one is not hard. I would be glad to be of further help if someone would PM me.

I agree, I think the forum has a problem with a certain small group of repeat people, up to no good.

Animatic put it well when he said, "crazy people cannot be crazy like this"

Some of the repeat performer's styles are easily recognizable. The biggest thing I notice is their positions have no emotional style. While totally impervious to fact, they show no emotional involvement. When cornered, they move to the next item in a list, mai pen rai. I also thing some of the hours they keep are a bit suspicious, but have not really looked into that.

[saintofsilence]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

By now surely you know that they are only following the Animatic Roadmap to Forum Domination. There's probably only 3 paid farangs disputing his stuff.

well put together everyone should check this video out

Edited May 17, 2010 by saintofsilence

[hextac]

A swift check of your posting history begs to differ....

You skimmed and scanned all of my posts in a couple of minutes? Man, you're good.

Yes sir I am.

Might I suggest you actually read some before forming an opinion?

Thank you.

I did, not quite an opinion but definitely a significant impression.

[matmat]

@seahorse My understanding here is the IP data is available within the software, but only to Administration level.

Regards

I have a phpbb3 forum, which should be similar. The admin has full rights to do anything. User names and account info are all contained in a single database. The admin can save or backup this database, which is in a text format. If saved as text, any common software can be used for searching and matching user names and IP information. Passwords are there but encrypted. It may be possible to at least match them as well. Once in text format the admin can allow others, i.e., moderators to study and search this file and the time to do so would be minimal. (But I bet our fine mods are rather busy right now)

There may be easier ways, but this one is not hard. I would be glad to be of further help if someone would PM me.

I agree, I think the forum has a problem with a certain small group of repeat people, up to no good.

Animatic put it well when he said, "crazy people cannot be crazy like this"

Some of the repeat performer's styles are easily recognizable. The biggest thing I notice is their positions have no emotional style. While totally impervious to fact, they show no emotional involvement. When cornered, they move to the next item in a list, mai pen rai. I also thing some of the hours they keep are a bit suspicious, but have not really looked into that.

[matmat]

@seahorse My understanding here is the IP data is available within the software, but only to Administration level.

Regards

I have a phpbb3 forum, which should be similar. The admin has full rights to do anything. User names and account info are all contained in a single database. The admin can save or backup this database, which is in a text format. If saved as text, any common software can be used for searching and matching user names and IP information. Passwords are there but encrypted. It may be possible to at least match them as well. Once in text format the admin can allow others, i.e., moderators to study and search this file and the time to do so would be minimal. (But I bet our fine mods are rather busy right now)

There may be easier ways, but this one is not hard. I would be glad to be of further help if someone would PM me.

I agree, I think the forum has a problem with a certain small group of repeat people, up to no good.

Animatic put it well when he said, "crazy people cannot be crazy like this"

Some of the repeat performer's styles are easily recognizable. The biggest thing I notice is their positions have no emotional style. While totally impervious to fact, they show no emotional involvement. When cornered, they move to the next item in a list, mai pen rai. I also thing some of the hours they keep are a bit suspicious, but have not really looked into that.

I am Thai.

I feel shame for the fear and censorship here and all over thailand.

The world says we are now rogue nation.

[lilkitty]

99 pages and no solution.

[datum]

Its a valid study you cite but what it doesn't say is that the current government is the only government ever to attempt to redress this inequality in a sustainable way. It is the fear that it may have some measure of success (and it already has) that leads the fuedal power elite (who will be diminished by the welfare state) to fund this conflict and use their propaganda to rally largely peaceful yet ignorant supporters, together with a much more malevolent force to halt political change. You came to the board the other day talking about political solutions and those will still be possible, eventually; but that's not where we are at today. Today there is a battle raging for the survival of the state from foreign based aggressors.

I think you missed on important point of my previous report. Here is what I wrote:

I do believe also that there are many "flowers" in the red and yellow group. And by flowers I mean average people that they have some beliefs and they want to fight peacefully for these beliefs. I am sure that if it was in their hands democracy in Thailand would have been better. At the same time I do believe that both the red and yellow groups include many garbages; garbages that have one and only objective: To stop any process for more democracy in Thailand. They have of course different reasons for not liking democracy but obviously both of them hate democracy.

Yes, the ruling class doesn't want any change. But I am not convinced at all that the current governing coalition is not part of the problem. I am not convinced at all that the governing coalition has a sustainable plan to end the conflict and I am not convinced at all that the ruling class is not behind many of governments decisions.

Excuse my direct style but I do believe that your comment on the "survival of the state from foreign based aggressors" is a bit melodramatic and it is there just to create and impression. I do not believe that the Thai State is under threat. Is the current ruling political coalition under threat? Yes it is, but the governing coalition is not the State. The State is the set of institutions and goes well beyond the government. You might say that if this government collapse then there is going to be chaos and the State will collapse also. Theoretically this is a possibility, but you know something, I think that a State that has gone through 15+ coups and many bloodsheds has nothing to afraid from the possibility of a collapsing government.

[datum]

99 pages and no solution.

LOL that's good, I like your sense of humor at this difficult hours. You should have been a good facilitator on negotiations!

[annabel]

Arghhh !! Who is this Porn.....Sasi anyway .... yuk!!! Man get a life or a brain or both ... or.....Pfff!!

Well the fact is , as reported by the free press ,that the army is killing civilians .

Forget your own propaganda and stick to the real facts

They are not killing "civilians". The army are shooting at armed thugs.

"Civilians" don't set up barricades of tyres and light them. "Civilians" don't shoot RPGs at hotels. "Civilians" don't shoot weapons at the army.

Why bother...

[dman961]

99 pages and no solution.

LOL that's good, I like your sense of humor at this difficult hours. You should have been a good facilitator on negotiations!

The order for the Thai forces to open fire has been the worsed one yet. The only other countries to do that have been places like Iraq and Bosnia, is Thailand next on the list for that slippery slope. Next thing you know there will be someone burning the USA flag. Don't reply to that, it was meant in jest...

Edited May 17, 2010 by dman961

[rogerx007]

99 pages and no solution.

I have pinned all my hopes on the 100th page..... therein lies the solution...

[hextac]

99 pages and no solution.

My friend, if you're expecting a solution here, you are most certainly in the wrong place.