More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[lannarebirth]

Excuse my direct style but I do believe that your comment on the "survival of the state from foreign based aggressors" is a bit melodramatic and it is there just to create and impression. I do not believe that the Thai State is under threat. Is the current ruling political coalition under threat? Yes it is, but the governing coalition is not the State. The State is the set of institutions and goes well beyond the government. You might say that if this government collapse then there is going to be chaos and the State will collapse also. Theoretically this is a possibility, but you know something, I think that a State that has gone through 15+ coups and many bloodsheds has nothing to afraid from the possibility of a collapsing government.

I forgive you but I was not attempting to be melodramatic or simply to "create an impression". That is my belief.

It's true the Kingdom of Thailand is more than the current governing coalition, there is an opposition party and of course there is the monarchy. You'll find the opposition party lending support to the rioters in very obvious ways and which I believe will become even more obvious soon. We may not speak of the other body of state but to Thais it is pretty important.

[hextac]

The solution is....

[lilkitty]

The solution is....

Omg!!!! You tease!!!!!!!!!

[Sel]

I've been out most of the day but I recall reading that there was video somewhere of Black Shirt armed combatants speaking Burmese to each other. Has there been any more information regarding that that has come to light? What's it mean? Anyone?

Someone said that it wasn't Burmese, but a north-easter dialect.

And then we remember when the proxy-government brought in the forest police from the same region and they used tougher measures on the PAD demonstrators (4 dead in one afternoon IIRC) - so who knows, could be something to it.

Thanks

Cambodians? That's what this ex-red protester said today after getting out of the red stage area. Dressed in military uniforms, not sure if she says they are armed.

[lilkitty]

[annabel]

People from Burma call it Burma.

There are Burmese people, no Myanmarians, nor Myanmarites.

Only the government calls it Myanmar.

The people only use that word when they

are talking with soldiers or government personnel,

and don't want to get in trouble.

Thanks for that ... always wondered when I hear the different names and see it shown differently on a map. I had just did a google search too and this might also help understand if correct:

The name "Burma" is derived from the Burmese word "Bamar" (), which in turn is the colloquial form of Myanmar () (or Mranma in old Burmese), both of which historically referred to the majority Burmans (or the Bamar). Depending on the register used the pronunciation would be "Bama" or "Myanmah". The name "Burma" has been in use in English since the time of British colonial rule.

English is an evolving language. Avoid being pedantic. If you need absolute correctness use Latin or Ancient Greek. I'll collect a wager from you if 'youse' ain't the plural of 'you' in 100 years. Payable in real terms.

Onya mate. (Mc Lovin' the smileys)

For absolutely correcteness Pali is better than Latin. It's the same language family. Pali is the language of the Buddha.

Ok guys...this is not the issue here so stop wasting our time and go and debate this somewhere elese .... Gawd ye all get so carried away and off track with your big egos !! WHO cares wether it is called Burma or Myanmar.... it's still a country controlled by evil people ... Enough with your rubbish!!

[kissdani]

Didnt do much of a job of closing off.

Not just a guess actually. Earlier in the thread I suggested that the army should disarm before entering the encampment and, as I thought it was a good idea, I rang someone close to the Government. He said 'the military will never accept it, Abhisit does not control the military and they are pursuing their own agenda.' He also said you can see 'the military are shooting Thais while achieving nothing and that is not good either in the eyes of Thais or internationally.' He also said the 'police and military are corrupt to their very core.'

So yes there is quite a lot of guessing in there. But I know Abhisit is committed to reducing the influence of the army in Thai politics. Also remember there is the army reshuffle coming up and he wanted to replace the coup's constitution. There are some 3500 people at the encampment do you think the Thai army cant contain them when they can execute a coup in three hours.

So yes quite a lot of guesswork but it all seems to add up to me.

So it isnt hard to believe they are manipulating this protest - in fact it must be harder to believe they apparently cant contain it. Cutting the military budget and revising the constitution as well as having a say in the army reshuffle, I dont think would go down well. Thaksin got kicked out for mucking about with the reshuffle.

If you really believe Abhisit is interested in getting the Army out of politics, then please tell me why he has not used the police in this protest and let the Army do its job of protecting the country from outside dangers like from Burma or Cambodia.

Dear Sir,

The country you are referring to as "Burma" is called Myanmar.

Thank you

Sorry, but I don't let communists tell me how to pronounce something. It is Burma now and will be Burma in Burma in the not too distant future. What are you, a communist or just a 'fellow traveller'?

Some argue "Burma" is the name used by the colonialist. "Myanmar" is as name accepted by the UNO, ASEAN and many governments around the globe. Not all of them communist.

There are not only 'fellow travellers' or communists, there are also idiots and simpletons.

[datum]

It's true the Kingdom of Thailand is more than the current governing coalition, there is an opposition party and of course there is the monarchy. ..............

And also an army, a supreme court, an election committee, an attorney general, a constitution, and other institutions yes? (sorry if the names are not exactly right, I know that these institutions exist but I do not know their formal name). And if I've understand well all these institutions have been established through a long democratization process. So again, collapse of government doesn't equals collapse of state.

Edited May 17, 2010 by datum

[saintofsilence]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

By now surely you know that they are only following the Animatic Roadmap to Forum Domination. There's probably only 3 paid farangs disputing his stuff.

well put together everyone should check this video out

Peaceful Reds

[lannarebirth]

It's true the Kingdom of Thailand is more than the current governing coalition, there is an opposition party and of course there is the monarchy. ..............

And also an army, a supreme court, an election committee, an attorney general, a constitution, and other institutions yes? (sorry if the names are not exactly right, I know that these institutions exist but I do not know their formal name). And if I've understand well all these institutions have been established through a long democratization process. So again, collapse of government doesn't equals collapse of state.

Yes, but I wasn't speaking about a collapse of government, you were. I don't believe that is the insurgency's aim. If they were after democratic change they would have taken the deal they agreed to and later reneged on. They are clearly after something else.

[jitenshaman]

99 pages and no solution.

My friend, if you're expecting a solution here, you are most certainly in the wrong place.

at least there is little chance of being picked off by a sniper hiding inside one's computer.

[annabel]

2 MONTHS + AND NO SOLUTIONS !! yes this is a joke !!! I lived in India for over 20 years with a population of over 1 billion people and things like this erupted all the time and everywhere for whatever reasons= Muslims versus Indus , a Kidnapped super Star by a Robin Hood, political corruption , the murder of a well known person... whatever..Indians are hot blooded and flare up easily and then the mobs ransack everything and kill and loot BUT.... BUT.... never lasted more than 3-4 days as the police / army whatever controlled these mobs who burned and looted ...yes there was loss of life of all kinds... civilians , children, innocent by passers but it never , ever got out of hand like here or even excalated to even that close ..... This is a country with 200% if not 250% less population and it can't be controlled ... Makes me wonder ??? It's a joke and it is a sad one !!

99 pages and no solution.

[DagonKhan]

Ok guys...this is not the issue here so stop wasting our time and go and debate this somewhere elese .... Gawd ye all get so carried away and off track with your big egos !! WHO cares wether it is called Burma or Myanmar.... it's still a country controlled by evil people ... Enough with your rubbish!!

It's of paramount importance. If the men in black turn out to be Burmese then we can debate a whole new topic on whether or not they are Myanmar MIB or Burmese MIB.

[datum]

It's true the Kingdom of Thailand is more than the current governing coalition, there is an opposition party and of course there is the monarchy. ..............

And also an army, a supreme court, an election committee, an attorney general, a constitution, and other institutions yes? (sorry if the names are not exactly right, I know that these institutions exist but I do not know their formal name). And if I've understand well all these institutions have been established through a long democratization process. So again, collapse of government doesn't equals collapse of state.

Yes, but I wasn't speaking about a collapse of government, you were. I don't believe that is the insurgency's aim. If they were after democratic change they would have taken the deal they agreed to and later reneged on. They are clearly after something else.

I still don't see the threat of State collapse. Yes the whole issue about the deal and the negotiations doesn't make sense but I assume this is one of Thai "specialties". I don't know and I can't know for sure the background of the deal and I would agree that was extremely immature for the reds that they were not giving a clear answer but then look at the response! Instead of leaving their movement to fade out the response is snippers!

[TheItaliann]

I don't get it. The Red write the government a blank check and the government rips it in half.

[hextac]

I don't get it. The Red write the government a blank check and the government rips it in half.

You need to put a date on checks.

[annabel]

What is there to negotiate ...? JUST GO HOME AND END OF STORY !! SIMPLE NAH???.. what a bunch ...!! They have buses ready and shelters ready to smoothly bring then back home ... it's there ... All they have to do is say ok...we're going and it's the end...THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO NEGOTIATE AT THIS POINT !!! Just go!!

Anyone kows more about this?:

Just posted on another TV thread....

Red Shirt Leaders Willing to Negotiate Cease Fire

Nuthawut Saikua has announced that the red shirt leaders are now willing to negotiate a ceasefire with the government without any further conditions.

The DAAD has earlier demanded that an international organization mediate the peace talks, but after a strong refusal from the government, the red shirt leaders are now willing to talk under any and all circumstances.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-17

I think it would be more apt to say "Red Shirt Leaders Willing to Negotiate Surrender". They know what is coming.

Nathawut, how can you look the families of those you sacrificed in the eyes and say this was worth dying for?

Easy, he doesn't, he just looks at his bank account and sees those transfers from Dubai and Montenegro. It was all worth it to him, as long as he gets on a flight out. Then he won't have to think about those people again.

[hammered]

One hundred not out and still the same inane comments and spin from the facists on all sides

[kissdani]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

the ten year old boy.

the pregnant woman killed near the Indra hotel.

what u dont understand is that fighting is going on around people trying to live their lives. In RatchaProp and Bon Kai people are being terrorized by Army snipers.

I'm telling you what residents have told me. And im telling you what i have seen in people's faces. And too the fear that i myself have experienced.

I have to believe that if we visit Din Daeng, Rama 1, Victory monument etc. we will be told the same thing.

if you believe innocent people aren't dying then you u just need to go look for yourself. Though i dont really recommend it unless you know something about urban combat.

Why are the red protestors spreading out into these areas?

ten years old boy, pregnant woman, ambulance staff, cilvilians ...

MURDER apologist.

What comes next? Why are red shirts still alive? Only people alive can be killed, so it is clearly their fault, right?

[animatic]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

By now surely you know that they are only following the Animatic Roadmap to Forum Domination. There's probably only 3 paid farangs disputing his stuff.

Well you are making yourself pretty obvious... attempted diminuation...

Nice try. No cigar The Reds are really, REALLY losing ground in the PR war today.

So I guess you are are officialy ARF'D

The big picture is so much more than about this forum.

But it has numbers, influence, and this week location, location, location.

Edited May 17, 2010 by animatic

[datum]

Good night guys (and gals I assume).

[Phuket Stan]

Update: Govt may soon leak financial info of some red leaders that could make many jaws drop. /via @tulsathit

What I would like to see is the government stating on live TV how Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the biggest companies financing the yellow PAD, which then resulted in his son becomign Prime Minister.

Check your history Pussy....Abhisit has been a member of parliament from 7 elections....it was only the old guard (dinosaurs) that stopped him from becoming leader when Chuan stepped down...Baynat became leader and a miserable leader was he

[kissdani]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

the ten year old boy.

the pregnant woman killed near the Indra hotel.

what u dont understand is that fighting is going on around people trying to live their lives. In RatchaProp and Bon Kai people are being terrorized by Army snipers.

I'm telling you what residents have told me. And im telling you what i have seen in people's faces. And too the fear that i myself have experienced.

I have to believe that if we visit Din Daeng, Rama 1, Victory monument etc. we will be told the same thing.

if you believe innocent people aren't dying then you u just need to go look for yourself. Though i dont really recommend it unless you know something about urban combat.

Haven't there been lawful orders issued numerous times for citizens to stay out this area? Isn't being in these area punishable by 1 year in jail?

Where do you live? I doubt that it is bangkok. I saw you get the red protests wrong, I saw you get Seh Deangs family wrong and many things else. But have you any clue of that area, how it looks like here?

I live in a soi down Sathorn Road/ Praram 4.#, nearly in the 'shadow' of lumpini tower. Now i have friends staying here from the other side of Praram 4, because they cannot go home since it is declared to a "live firing zone".

Yesterday we tried it, but got told it is to dangerous because the army snipers fire at random over that area.

The army/government cannot declare a big part of the inner city to a live firing zone and than argue every death by army bullets is justified and lawful.

A boy got shot. Excuse, what he was doing in a War Zone, his parents are to blame. But maybe they got arrested already and sentenced to a 1 year in jail just the morning before. All lawful.

[kissdani]

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dsc0126xz.jpg/

Take a look at this photo. Do these people look like criminals to you? Taken today.

I was told that the official line from the military is that it doesnt want to get caught up in some battle with these sort of people around. It could go very badly wrong especially if there are 'real trained' agitators in there. I mean it is possible that they might kill a couple of innocent bystanders to incite the crowd. Or maybe these 'real' terrorists are just thugs. If 50 of that crowd get killed then it will not look good.

No but these do people do

as do these people if we can call them that

Wow, the third 'dick' was too small to be censored...that gotta hurt...

Thank you. You are the man with the best skills to spot the really important FACTS. Your posts never a disappointment.

Please keep us updated.

[Phuket Stan]

2 MONTHS + AND NO SOLUTIONS !! yes this is a joke !!! I lived in India for over 20 years with a population of over 1 billion people and things like this erupted all the time and everywhere for whatever reasons= Muslims versus Indus , a Kidnapped super Star by a Robin Hood, political corruption , the murder of a well known person... whatever..Indians are hot blooded and flare up easily and then the mobs ransack everything and kill and loot BUT.... BUT.... never lasted more than 3-4 days as the police / army whatever controlled these mobs who burned and looted ...yes there was loss of life of all kinds... civilians , children, innocent by passers but it never , ever got out of hand like here or even excalated to even that close ..... This is a country with 200% if not 250% less population and it can't be controlled ... Makes me wonder ??? It's a joke and it is a sad one !!

99 pages and no solution.

I was in India about 15 years ago and there was some trouble not far from our hotel....those Indian police are real good with their long batons....do that here and BBCrap would have it as the lead news item for a month and it would also send a few on here into a right tiss

[Netfan]

Where do you live? I doubt that it is bangkok. I saw you get the red protests wrong, I saw you get Seh Deangs family wrong and many things else. But have you any clue of that area, how it looks like here?

I live in a soi down Sathorn Road/ Praram 4.#, nearly in the 'shadow' of lumpini tower. Now i have friends staying here from the other side of Praram 4, because they cannot go home since it is declared to a "live firing zone".

Yesterday we tried it, but got told it is to dangerous because the army snipers fire at random over that area.

The army/government cannot declare a big part of the inner city to a live firing zone and than argue every death by army bullets is justified and lawful.

A boy got shot. Excuse, what he was doing in a War Zone, his parents are to blame. But maybe they got arrested already and sentenced to a 1 year in jail just the morning before. All lawful.

Or maybe a drunken red shirt in a van refused to stop for a checkpoint and the soldiers were forced to shoot out the tires. and the boy got hit. Tragic, but no drunken red shirt, no dead child.

[jcbangkok]

This is really an interesting interview with Red Shirt spokesman last year ... worth watching

[Explorer]

Are the reds gathering at Ramkamhaeng U? Saw this in the news clipping but a confirmation by members here would be great. Thanks

[Phuket Stan]

Now this could be sticky for Tacki

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) said yesterday that massive amounts of money had been withdrawn by Akarat Changlao and Kanchanapa Honghern, respectively, on behalf of Pojaman.

The money was taken out of bank accounts in cash and left the banks in several vehicles.

On Sunday, the CRES issued a ban on financial transactions by 106 individuals and legal entities, including Thaksin and Pojaman.

A CRES source said individuals and legal entities suspected of helping to fund the unrest usually reported that they withdrew the money to buy expensive amulets and lottery tickets.

The CRES also found one of the red-shirt protest leaders had more than Bt100 million in bank deposits. He will be summoned to substantiate the sources of his huge income.

The unidentified leader was also found to have purchased luxury vehicles and two mansions worth at least Bt10 million each.

Another 20-50 names, including Jatuporn Promphan, another key protest leader, plus a major listed company in the real-estate sector, could be added to the blacklist.

[lannarebirth]

Now this could be sticky for Tacki

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) said yesterday that massive amounts of money had been withdrawn by Akarat Changlao and Kanchanapa Honghern, respectively, on behalf of Pojaman.

The money was taken out of bank accounts in cash and left the banks in several vehicles.

On Sunday, the CRES issued a ban on financial transactions by 106 individuals and legal entities, including Thaksin and Pojaman.

A CRES source said individuals and legal entities suspected of helping to fund the unrest usually reported that they withdrew the money to buy expensive amulets and lottery tickets.

The CRES also found one of the red-shirt protest leaders had more than Bt100 million in bank deposits. He will be summoned to substantiate the sources of his huge income.

The unidentified leader was also found to have purchased luxury vehicles and two mansions worth at least Bt10 million each.

Another 20-50 names, including Jatuporn Promphan, another key protest leader, plus a major listed company in the real-estate sector, could be added to the blacklist.

When it is all about the money you have to follow the money trail. Long overdue.