Thailand Rejects Reds Ceasefire Call As Nonsense

[gemini81]

2. If I walk into the Red camp and say..." I love the Yellows and you are wrong" do you honestly think that I will walk out alive? Is that "freedom of expression without repercussions?

I think not.

deadpuppy,

i a must disagree.

i last visited Ratchaprasong on saturday nite. i had a long chat with a protestor sitting right near the press area, a bangkok resident. I told her frankly that i thought thaskin's return would be bad for thailand, and i catalogued a long laundry list of complaints that i have also posted here from time to time.

No, i wasnt downright impolite as you suggest, but she understood very well that i dont take the red side.

she disagreed but was nothing but polite and ever so grateful that i would be interested in visiting ratchaP. i even got a nice smile and a wai from the protester.

and not only did i walk out alive, i walked out knowing more than before i walked in.

im not suggesting you visit that venue now, because the violence is terrorizing and dehumanizing people. still if you got out from your behind computer you might find yourself transformed from a deadpuppy to a livedog.

I find that you did all of that very hard to believe, going down there and gathering opinions and telling them you oppose Thaksin and all of this. If you're advising us not to go on, why would you have gone in? unless you live within, soldiers wouldn't let you pass on in.

Also, on your way out they want everyone's ID according to many interviews with red shirts who do remain. how were you bypassed?

[agord]

2. If I walk into the Red camp and say..." I love the Yellows and you are wrong" do you honestly think that I will walk out alive? Is that "freedom of expression without repercussions?

I think not.

deadpuppy,

i a must disagree.

i last visited Ratchaprasong on saturday nite. i had a long chat with a protestor sitting right near the press area, a bangkok resident. I told her frankly that i thought thaskin's return would be bad for thailand, and i catalogued a long laundry list of complaints that i have also posted here from time to time.

No, i wasnt downright impolite as you suggest, but she understood very well that i dont take the red side.

she disagreed but was nothing but polite and ever so grateful that i would be interested in visiting ratchaP. i even got a nice smile and a wai from the protester.

and not only did i walk out alive, i walked out knowing more than before i walked in.

im not suggesting you visit that venue now, because the violence is terrorizing and dehumanizing people. still if you got out from your behind computer you might find yourself transformed from a deadpuppy to a livedog.

[ozzieman05]

CRES

Nuttawut accused

Reds leader Nuttawut Saikua has been behind the terrorist attacks in Bangkok, Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Tuesday.

"It is not possible that Nuttawut, a core leader of red shirts, does not know about the ongoing attacks in Bangkok. Yet he has repeatedly denied his involvement in the attacks," Sansern told reporters.

Sansern said Nuttawut is "a major terrorist leader".

PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu, a main negotiator, earlier said Nuttawut had offered a ceasefire on the condition that the government withdrew the troops and stopped firing at people.

Nuttawut told Korbsak that if the government agreed to meet his demands, he would remove the red shirts protesters outside the Rajprasong rally site.

Korbsak said his statement clearly showed he is a core leader of the reds and involved in the terrorist attacks in Bangkok.

Sansern told reporters that Korbsak's statement provided proof of his labelling of Nuttawut as a major terrorist leader.

-- The Nation 2010-05-18

Now, we are calling a cat a cat !!!!

Tis whole bulls..t not make sense

Te protestors are in an inner circle *(safe zone at the moment)

The army encircle them with a NO GO Area that separates he two

Now my logic says iyf they say in the safe area they have no problem

If they enter the no go zone the Army shoot

So isn't it easy

Red shirts stay in their area

Army stays in their area

and talks start

find a soulution all go home

Or is it the red shirt leaders want a stop fire for another reason altogether

Nothing to do with peace'

[gemini81]

CRES

Nuttawut accused

Reds leader Nuttawut Saikua has been behind the terrorist attacks in Bangkok, Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Tuesday.

"It is not possible that Nuttawut, a core leader of red shirts, does not know about the ongoing attacks in Bangkok. Yet he has repeatedly denied his involvement in the attacks," Sansern told reporters.

Sansern said Nuttawut is "a major terrorist leader".

PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu, a main negotiator, earlier said Nuttawut had offered a ceasefire on the condition that the government withdrew the troops and stopped firing at people.

Nuttawut told Korbsak that if the government agreed to meet his demands, he would remove the red shirts protesters outside the Rajprasong rally site.

Korbsak said his statement clearly showed he is a core leader of the reds and involved in the terrorist attacks in Bangkok.

Sansern told reporters that Korbsak's statement provided proof of his labelling of Nuttawut as a major terrorist leader.

-- The Nation 2010-05-18

Now, we are calling a cat a cat !!!!

Tis whole bulls..t not make sense

Te protestors are in an inner circle *(safe zone at the moment)

The army encircle them with a NO GO Area that separates he two

Now my logic says iyf they say in the safe area they have no problem

If they enter the no go zone the Army shoot

So isn't it easy

Red shirts stay in their area

Army stays in their area

and talks start

find a soulution all go home

Or is it the red shirt leaders want a stop fire for another reason altogether

Nothing to do with peace'

all of this for nothing. what a waste.

[Who, me ?]

CRES

Nuttawut accused

Reds leader Nuttawut Saikua has been behind the terrorist attacks in Bangkok, Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Tuesday.

"It is not possible that Nuttawut, a core leader of red shirts, does not know about the ongoing attacks in Bangkok. Yet he has repeatedly denied his involvement in the attacks," Sansern told reporters.

Sansern said Nuttawut is "a major terrorist leader".

PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu, a main negotiator, earlier said Nuttawut had offered a ceasefire on the condition that the government withdrew the troops and stopped firing at people.

Nuttawut told Korbsak that if the government agreed to meet his demands, he would remove the red shirts protesters outside the Rajprasong rally site.

Korbsak said his statement clearly showed he is a core leader of the reds and involved in the terrorist attacks in Bangkok.

Sansern told reporters that Korbsak's statement provided proof of his labelling of Nuttawut as a major terrorist leader.

-- The Nation 2010-05-18

Now, we are calling a cat a cat !!!!

Tis whole bulls..t not make sense

Te protestors are in an inner circle *(safe zone at the moment)

The army encircle them with a NO GO Area that separates he two

Now my logic says iyf they say in the safe area they have no problem

If they enter the no go zone the Army shoot

So isn't it easy

Red shirts stay in their area

Army stays in their area

and talks start

find a soulution all go home

Or is it the red shirt leaders want a stop fire for another reason altogether

Nothing to do with peace'

Cessfire , Army withdraws, Reds regroup, take new orders and restart attacks.....while spreading where army was....

[agord]

CRES

Nuttawut accused

Reds leader Nuttawut Saikua has been behind the terrorist attacks in Bangkok, Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Tuesday.

"It is not possible that Nuttawut, a core leader of red shirts, does not know about the ongoing attacks in Bangkok. Yet he has repeatedly denied his involvement in the attacks," Sansern told reporters.

Sansern said Nuttawut is "a major terrorist leader".

PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu, a main negotiator, earlier said Nuttawut had offered a ceasefire on the condition that the government withdrew the troops and stopped firing at people.

Nuttawut told Korbsak that if the government agreed to meet his demands, he would remove the red shirts protesters outside the Rajprasong rally site.

Korbsak said his statement clearly showed he is a core leader of the reds and involved in the terrorist attacks in Bangkok.

Sansern told reporters that Korbsak's statement provided proof of his labelling of Nuttawut as a major terrorist leader.

-- The Nation 2010-05-18

Now, we are calling a cat a cat !!!!

Tis whole bulls..t not make sense

Te protestors are in an inner circle *(safe zone at the moment)

The army encircle them with a NO GO Area that separates he two

Now my logic says iyf they say in the safe area they have no problem

If they enter the no go zone the Army shoot

So isn't it easy

Red shirts stay in their area

Army stays in their area

and talks start

find a soulution all go home

Or is it the red shirt leaders want a stop fire for another reason altogether

Nothing to do with peace'

Yes sir your logic seems to be working just fine! others not so much Just pick up a phone Nuttawut there won't be any shooting if you don't send your yaba heads out into the live fire zone.

[Wuffy]

Personally I'm always surprised by the Red's crack negotiation skills. "Give me what I want, THEN we can talk about agreeing whether you want to give it to me."

"Dissolve Parliament now and hold elections in 15 days, THEN we negotiate for protest to end and for when the election should be held."

"Stop shooting at us and withdraw troops, THEN we can negotiate a cease fire."

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Wuffy

[Steely Dan]

2. If I walk into the Red camp and say..." I love the Yellows and you are wrong" do you honestly think that I will walk out alive? Is that "freedom of expression without repercussions?

I think not.

deadpuppy,

i a must disagree.

i last visited Ratchaprasong on saturday nite. i had a long chat with a protestor sitting right near the press area, a bangkok resident. I told her frankly that i thought thaskin's return would be bad for thailand, and i catalogued a long laundry list of complaints that i have also posted here from time to time.

No, i wasnt downright impolite as you suggest, but she understood very well that i dont take the red side.

she disagreed but was nothing but polite and ever so grateful that i would be interested in visiting ratchaP. i even got a nice smile and a wai from the protester.

and not only did i walk out alive, i walked out knowing more than before i walked in.

im not suggesting you visit that venue now, because the violence is terrorizing and dehumanizing people. still if you got out from your behind computer you might find yourself transformed from a deadpuppy to a livedog.

I think you were very lucky. This female journalist was attacked then detained 'for her own protection' behind the redshirt stage.

At ratchaprasong, the #redshirts guards take a female journalist behind the stage. http://tweetphoto.com/22910119 /via @satien_nna

[homebody]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

Agreed. The reds need to make a dramatic gesture to show their good faith now that they have totally darkened their name, even among previous supporters such as you. Best idea to the reds -- GO HOME. Then politely ask for early elections and pledge no more violence. Guess what? Abhisit will probably say yes.

You assume Abisit has not lost face. Its gone too far with his stubborness, and the control others have over him. He is between a Rock and Hard place. Abisit only had one word during the negotiating with reds originally, and that was not yes, or ok, meet in the middle.

What's the problem if the reds just go home and wait for some months to the new election?. Or Mr. Takki wanna save his expend to the Red leaders some more months longer. I supported the reds before, but now I feel like Takki don't wanna loose face 2 years in jail for corruption. His target is to get back his billions and become Mr. future president. So far Aphisit do a good jobb of the unstable Thai politic. My friend in Bankok earns just 3,500 a month but can't go to work for 2 months now.

[phantomfiddler]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your translator griend has been reversing the truth and you have been lapping it all up. Abhisit has bent over backwards to avoid this violence and come up with a reasonable compromise, but the red thugs hired by toxin are the ones who are putting the wrench in the gears.

[ETatBKK]

The red shirts do not want an unconditional ceasefire. They will only make more impossible demands. Why is the foreign media supporting the red side. Why are they ignoring that the reds have arms as well?

'...For years now, the media has ceased to report the facts. From the US Fox news, as one example, the politically slanted British press, who dither between whichever political party is in favour at the time, right down to the heavily censored news from China, who allow you to know only what they want you to know; lies and sensationalism sell newspapers...and to heck with the truth.

We are all fortunate to live in the time of the first Internet, mobile phones, cheap international air travel and Mcdonalds...Well maybe crap fast-food is not a good example, but you get the point.

The downside is, we also live in unprecedented times of terrorism, intrusive airport body scans, metal detectors in schools and an ever-growing totalitarian society, in the West at least. Without spouting Conspiracy Theory, we are most definitely entering a New World Order and things will never be the same again.

The world's media are also lazy and don't research their subject enough, which has become blindingly obvious during the Bangkok problems. The inaccuracies in some of the British press are not only unforgiveable, but add fuel to the fire of misunderstanding of what is behind the Bangkok turmoil.

There are many people on this forum who talk rubbish, slavishly echoing what their Red-shirt supporting Isaan wife says, don't like the rule of law, or themselves are a brain cell or two lost to too many beer Changs. They are entitled to their opinion on a forum, however, the general public are entitled to unbiased, factual and honest reporting from the world's media, but sadly, those days are long gone'.

©2010theMagician

I notice that all the Thai medias are basis one way or another, either on reds side, or the yellow side, or on the side of government. this is understandible as their are a lot of emotion, a lot of believe, a lot of politics behind.

absolutely no excuse that international medias do crap on the Bangkok riot ! one reason though - sentimental journalism ! they tell their audience what they want to see and what they sympathise ( but not the complete story ).

this is unacceptable, but there are lot of big agencies are performing well on this !

IMHO

[changnaam]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your translator griend has been reversing the truth and you have been lapping it all up. Abhisit has bent over backwards to avoid this violence and come up with a reasonable compromise, but the red thugs hired by toxin are the ones who are putting the wrench in the gears.

Totally agree with you, but now unfortunately the govt are paying the price for acting in a responsible manner. Had they gone in heavy handed at the start then this could have been avoided.

I think Abhisit has handled this as responsibly as possible, but due to the fact he is dealing with terrorists there was never going to be a peaceful end, however many compromises were offered.

I still cannot fathom how so called educted westerners cannot see this and have lost count of the number of times I have had to shake or scratch my head at some of the drivel written on here......

How the poster above was taken in by the "translation" is beyond me.

[sleepy]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

Fast Eddie I was wondering how long, as you are a newbie you have been in country, to make such remarks please investigate the situation a little more as you are showing how ignorant you are of the situation, or perhaps you come from a country that acceps thugs, paid be sore loosers such as a former prime minister with buckets of money, he was crafty enough to bamboosle from the thai population. Or go back to the bar where you were drinking as you could not be serious sober or maybe you can.

Thanks Sleepy

[yoshiwara]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

Remember in the movie Fasteddy loses the critical match.

Protesters?

I don't think so.

Goons for Thaksin.

[whybother]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

Agreed. The reds need to make a dramatic gesture to show their good faith now that they have totally darkened their name, even among previous supporters such as you. Best idea to the reds -- GO HOME. Then politely ask for early elections and pledge no more violence. Guess what? Abhisit will probably say yes.

You assume Abisit has not lost face. Its gone too far with his stubborness, and the control others have over him. He is between a Rock and Hard place. Abisit only had one word during the negotiating with reds originally, and that was not yes, or ok, meet in the middle.

You have no idea what he was actually saying NO to, do you?

[SantiSuk]

yep, a slippery slope indeed... I suggest someone throw out an anchor to the various leaders in hopes of stopping their slide.

The only people that are fighting and destroying everything in their path are the Reds. So it is nonsense to call for Ceasefire. Some should tell them just stop. End of story

Please do not tar me as any particular colour but how come the deaths since April 10th are:

Reds 35 - Army and Police 0

[As reported in a national newspaper today. This normally pro Government paper also had an article calling the latest army manoevres a 'staggered massacre']

It looks like Ratchaprasong is becoming a red herring. With new Red camps breaking out around Bangkok both sides need to compromise their demands quickly or we are straight down the road to civil war.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SantiSuk

[deepskyfreak]

The red shirts do not want an unconditional ceasefire. They will only make more impossible demands. Why is the foreign media supporting the red side. Why are they ignoring that the reds have arms as well?

'...For years now, the media has ceased to report the facts. From the US Fox news, as one example, the politically slanted British press, who dither between whichever political party is in favour at the time, right down to the heavily censored news from China, who allow you to know only what they want you to know; lies and sensationalism sell newspapers...and to heck with the truth.

We are all fortunate to live in the time of the first Internet, mobile phones, cheap international air travel and Mcdonalds...Well maybe crap fast-food is not a good example, but you get the point.

The downside is, we also live in unprecedented times of terrorism, intrusive airport body scans, metal detectors in schools and an ever-growing totalitarian society, in the West at least. Without spouting Conspiracy Theory, we are most definitely entering a New World Order and things will never be the same again.

The world's media are also lazy and don't research their subject enough, which has become blindingly obvious during the Bangkok problems. The inaccuracies in some of the British press are not only unforgiveable, but add fuel to the fire of misunderstanding of what is behind the Bangkok turmoil.

There are many people on this forum who talk rubbish, slavishly echoing what their Red-shirt supporting Isaan wife says, don't like the rule of law, or themselves are a brain cell or two lost to too many beer Changs. They are entitled to their opinion on a forum, however, the general public are entitled to unbiased, factual and honest reporting from the world's media, but sadly, those days are long gone'.

©2010theMagician

I notice that all the Thai medias are basis one way or another, either on reds side, or the yellow side, or on the side of government. this is understandible as their are a lot of emotion, a lot of believe, a lot of politics behind.

absolutely no excuse that international medias do crap on the Bangkok riot ! one reason though - sentimental journalism ! they tell their audience what they want to see and what they sympathise ( but not the complete story ).

this is unacceptable, but there are lot of big agencies are performing well on this !

IMHO

International correspondents rely on their Thai partners to explain and translate. With very few exceptions they do not speak Thai beyond the ability to order a fried rice or a drink. Bias starts there.

Foreigners bubbling their wife's opinions are often not much better educated than their partners. The ladies' English knowledge limited to "no good" and "we Isan peolpe no like"

Being out in Nakhorn Nowhere they might read the Bangkok Post but, the Post or Nation are papers edited by Bangkokians. They, of course, do not know real life in Isan. "Farang Khi Nok" knows real life, in Isan, Nakhorn Nowhere, Soi Haeng Raeng.

Hey but, this forum is OPEN. Democratic. Free. Fun. Informative.

We do not want it limited.

I shake my head every time reading the crap so many farangs write here (being a farang myself). But, that is the essence of a free forum.

The media is a different issue.

They also have a certain responsibility towards a conflict - they should never report in a way which stirs up more emotions or pours more fuel into the fire. Unfortunately they do. Same in Thailand, same everywhere.

Neither media, opinions, lectures, protests, forums, speeches, politics are the glue of a functioning society. It is law. Thailand has law. It is simply not implemented correctly and followed.

Forgiveness is good, but Thailand's long history of amnesties and forgiveness has a problem: The influential players of all conflict weigh their chances for forgiveness and amnesty well before they act. As long as they proof right, their rogue behavior will not change.

[neverdie]

LOL via Weng, via cnn via snider. Post 79.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...75&start=75

Easy to see the same old tactics and lies are being deployed in an attempt to gain the sympathy vote.

[SantiSuk]

Real journalism only survives at Aljazeera IMO having watched CNN, BBC and Aljazeera a lot in recent weeks. Aljazeera is the only channel willing to take on discussion of the 'other patrician estate' angle on the conflict.

Beeb are showing some signs of finally waking up as to how shallow their coverage has been.

While the age of tweeting and blogging is helping to fill in the gaps I do worry about the number of amateur war correspondents (for which read potentially dead meat) this is creating.

[Neilly]

CRES

Nuttawut accused

Reds leader Nuttawut Saikua has been behind the terrorist attacks in Bangkok, Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Tuesday.

"It is not possible that Nuttawut, a core leader of red shirts, does not know about the ongoing attacks in Bangkok. Yet he has repeatedly denied his involvement in the attacks," Sansern told reporters.

Sansern said Nuttawut is "a major terrorist leader".

PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu, a main negotiator, earlier said Nuttawut had offered a ceasefire on the condition that the government withdrew the troops and stopped firing at people.

Nuttawut told Korbsak that if the government agreed to meet his demands, he would remove the red shirts protesters outside the Rajprasong rally site.

Korbsak said his statement clearly showed he is a core leader of the reds and involved in the terrorist attacks in Bangkok.

Sansern told reporters that Korbsak's statement provided proof of his labelling of Nuttawut as a major terrorist leader.

-- The Nation 2010-05-18

Now, we are calling a cat a cat !!!!

For the above...see below

Sae Deang's Close Aide into Custody

The Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations, or CRES, reveals that officials have taken Sae Deang's close aide into custody.

They claim that the aide has revealed that Nutthawut Saikua is responsible for the widespread acts of terrorism throughout the city.

[TAWP]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

The army clearly cannot back off before an talks begins, that is indeed nonsense. It would allow the camps to be reinforced and re-populated and this time they could prepare for being there for a month (arranging supplies etc) and then suddenly let the negotiations collapse again...

I also hope the government finds a way to avoid a crackdown per se, as innocent must not be hurt. But the fringe-elements - the highly violent ones - will not a separation happen. It would make them a target for arrests.

[Snowdog]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

get your facts straight dude thaksin has been paying the protesters.all because he wants to clear his name and possibly return to power someday to once again steal from the thai people.the government is doing whats right.anywhere else in the world if the red shirts pulled this crap they would have been imediately aressted and put in jail and allot more deaths would have been on there hands.the thai government hasn`t done enought to protect its citizens from these criminals.i hope they learned a lesson and will start to build bigger prisons to house these red terrorists.the leaders of they should be in prison for life as they are responsible for 67 deaths so far

[ETatBKK]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

The army clearly cannot back off before an talks begins, that is indeed nonsense. It would allow the camps to be reinforced and re-populated and this time they could prepare for being there for a month (arranging supplies etc) and then suddenly let the negotiations collapse again...

I also hope the government finds a way to avoid a crackdown per se, as innocent must not be hurt. But the fringe-elements - the highly violent ones - will not a separation happen. It would make them a target for arrests.

IMHO, there are couple of things that need to be addressed correctly :

armed terrorist

must be identified and knock down, no execuse

red protesters

if protest is peaceful, reds organiser calls all small protest groups and return to the red camp, rest of them on the street are all rioters !

onlookers

go home, none of it is your business, not a time for having fun !

look at the amount of women and children still in the red camp, how all big men soldiers could take good care of them ? they don't have women soldiers in the troops !

[ETatBKK]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

The army clearly cannot back off before an talks begins, that is indeed nonsense. It would allow the camps to be reinforced and re-populated and this time they could prepare for being there for a month (arranging supplies etc) and then suddenly let the negotiations collapse again...

I also hope the government finds a way to avoid a crackdown per se, as innocent must not be hurt. But the fringe-elements - the highly violent ones - will not a separation happen. It would make them a target for arrests.

for example, in a case of kidnapping, the police mediator phases in for non-violent ending.

at the same time, police can not call off the operation neither.

no way to withdraw the security force before the reds end the riot !

[whybother]

Nattawud: "Earlier statement been distorted. Did not say could call fighters back. Can only do that if troops open barricades" /v @terryfrd

Am I understanding this correctly?

Nattawud can't call fighters back unless the troops open the barricades?

The barricades that the reds set up. The barricades that the reds are behind. The ones that are between the reds and the army. The ones that are between the army and where the fighters would go back to?

Is this guy an idiot, or what?

And he wants to negotiate? I'm sure the negotiation will be "Dissolution NOW, or we won't negotiate any more".

[Insight]

2. If I walk into the Red camp and say..." I love the Yellows and you are wrong" do you honestly think that I will walk out alive? Is that "freedom of expression without repercussions?

I think not.

deadpuppy,

i a must disagree.

i last visited Ratchaprasong on saturday nite. i had a long chat with a protestor sitting right near the press area, a bangkok resident. I told her frankly that i thought thaskin's return would be bad for thailand, and i catalogued a long laundry list of complaints that i have also posted here from time to time.

No, i wasnt downright impolite as you suggest, but she understood very well that i dont take the red side.

she disagreed but was nothing but polite and ever so grateful that i would be interested in visiting ratchaP. i even got a nice smile and a wai from the protester.

and not only did i walk out alive, i walked out knowing more than before i walked in.

im not suggesting you visit that venue now, because the violence is terrorizing and dehumanizing people. still if you got out from your behind computer you might find yourself transformed from a deadpuppy to a livedog.

When I last walked around there I spotted pictures of Thaksin everywhere. Maybe they're divided over this contentious issue?

[gimlost2]

As I have been watching this from the start, I know the outcome and so do you. No one has won or will win. There are many ways to handle this in a less lethal way other than having sniper shooting everything that moves. We all know that most farmers and old ladies, children do not have the means to get lethal weapon such as grenades, assault rifles and the such, most are even having hard time feeding their family. We know only the big boys with the money and clout has the ability to pull this off. Many of these people in that park are honest hard working people, (Mothers , fathers, and children ) some may be relatives of yours. They only want the best for Thailand. A free and democratic un-corrupt Thailand , Most of those people there in that park will be killed before this ends. as many have lost there lives already even children. I see on here that so many just have negative things to say, I hope you dont have someone in the middle that is killed, Becuase by your comments they deserve to die. No one deserves to die , because they held you up from going to the shopping mall, or mc donalds for a month or two. You may not believe in their cause or the way they are acting. But try not to forget your humanity , these are your brothers and sisters. Next time, and oh yes there will be a next time, maybe you or your child will be laying face down with a bullet in your head. So have compassion for those how have died and those who are about to. As your government will surely kill them.

[Tanaka]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

You do not negotiate with terrorists. Period. The PM tried and what happened. The reds just made new demands.

[toenail]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your translator griend has been reversing the truth and you have been lapping it all up. Abhisit has bent over backwards to avoid this violence and come up with a reasonable compromise, but the red thugs hired by toxin are the ones who are putting the wrench in the gears.

******************

Featography has been off a few times with his comments. I have a feeling he was not keeping up with the events prior to the crack down. Featography, don't you remember a couple weeks ago when PM Abhisit "road map"was offered which moved up elections to NOv. 14? It was so GENEROUS that it pissed off the Yellow party. (which people claimed was the Yellow party's puppet) and do you remember that the RED leaders said , "NO" to the offer???????????????????

[khunya]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Hello !!!!! where have u been? Nobody is winning, not the Reds for sure. Everybody, every Thais, babies, small children, young and old is losing, dying in this senseless battle. There is no real leaders on either side. Abphisit had to give up his authority to the Army Chief who is all along playing safe himself because he doesn't know which way the tide will turn and how soon. Those rural poor Reds were being manipulated and brainwashed to leave home and farmland to join the fight which originally had the legitimate ground. and now these poor were caught in between the hardcore followers of Seh Daeng( the urban thugs and anarchists) and the realists like Veera. Abphisit himself, wise maybe but is very inexperience politician. He let the situation deterioting to the boiling point which should have been prevented it a year ago. Now the extremist Seh Daeng is dead, the other Red leaders who are much less confrontional are now willing to go back to talk. Abphisit should have accepted its plea for resume negotiation unconditionally. To put the condition for some 5000 Reds to move out and end rally before talk is not going to happen in a day or two. for sure noone wants to make the first move as being afraid of losing face. So, both sides could careless if these unrest continues on and more killing and injuring to the Thais. More mayham, Thailand drifts and drifts into the lawless land. The thugs, the criminal rule the street and hold its own country ransom and no one seems able to stop it, not even Thai troop. SHAME SHAME TO ALL INVOLVED: THOSE WHO CREATED THE HAVOC WILL BE BURNED IN hel_l.