If The Red Shirt Incident Happened In Your Country...?

[connda]

The wonderful thing about us Farangs is that we all have an opinion. But I'd like you to set your aside your opinion of the present Thai government for one moment, and instead reflect on your own country.

The poll is simple: Under the same set of circumstances, how would your government react if a group of demonstrators occupied the capital city of your country. Included in this group of demonstrators is a radical faction that are armed and openly defend their use of violent force to maintain their hold on the business district of your capital city. They refuse to leave until the leader of your country resigns and the government is dissolved.

That's it. So, what would the government of your country do?

Edited May 19, 2010 by connda

[soundman]

Moved to Pub forum.

[kaengk]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

Edited May 19, 2010 by kaengk

[jitta]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

true, but in USA nobody would be allowed to execute 2500 people (as Taksin did) claiming a "war on drug", Taksin would have been executed so no coup would have ever taken place.

[Capealava]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

From a fellow American I agree with you. The battle would be immense. I hated Bush with a passion, but he finished his term and a a new government was elected, that is true democracy. What happens the next election if the elite and the Army do not like the results. Another Burma perhaps. But comparing Thailand and the USA is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Capealava]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

true, but in USA nobody would be allowed to execute 2500 people (as Taksin did) claiming a "war on drug", Taksin would have been executed so no coup would have ever taken place.

You are off the subject. Read the post.

[kaengk]

The Red Shirt movement has much in common with the anti-war protests and civil rights movement of the last century in the USA. Groups capable of violence like the Black Panthers and Weather Underground co-existed with a larger social movement towards a greater good. Some right-wingers like J. Edgar Hoover attempted to discredit the entire liberal left on account of these groups.

[StreetCowboy]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

From a fellow American I agree with you. The battle would be immense. I hated Bush with a passion, but he finished his term and a a new government was elected, that is true democracy. What happens the next election if the elite and the Army do not like the results. Another Burma perhaps. But comparing Thailand and the USA is like comparing apples and oranges.

I prefer apples because they are cleaner to eat, but I think oranges contain more vitamin C per item. Why can't you compare them?

Bearing in mind that the US constitution allows the citizens to bear arms for just such an event, so that they can fight against an oppresive state, I don't think that it is such an inane question. Imagine if a group of radicals took over a city centre location and defied the government - or even a remote farmhouse in Waco, Texas...

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Imagine if a radical minority party tried to achieve separatism in a small part of the UK through a violent campaign hiding behind peaceful protesters, and allegedly discharging firearms at the security forces....

Would they be allowed to set up a fortress in the streets and stand off against the security forces for several weeks?

I think the big difference is in the training and equipment of the security forces, not any difference in the politics.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

EDIT: Accidental double post - can be deleted.

Apologies

SC

Edited May 19, 2010 by StreetCowboy

[Capealava]

Imagine if a radical minority party tried to achieve separatism in a small part of the UK through a violent campaign hiding behind peaceful protesters, and allegedly discharging firearms at the security forces....

Would they be allowed to set up a fortress in the streets and stand off against the security forces for several weeks?

I think the big difference is in the training and equipment of the security forces, not any difference in the politics.

SC

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

I think you had a functioning democracy - and then two functioning democracies - last time you had a civil war.

I guess that we are lucky that our democratic processes are effective enough to return us a government that is accepted by the vast majority of the country - crown, people and institutions alike, regardless of whether it is the government that they actually wanted.

But to blame the government for the actions of the army under a different government seems - obtuse. This government could not have prevented or averted or in any way mitigated that coup, and this government was formed by elected politicians, same as each previous government. I suggest that you take up the issue of ineffective government and coups with former politicians and fugitives.

SC

My apologies for maintaining this off-topic digression, and I understand fully that the mods may wish to delete this post as being off-topic. However, I do not want to leave the quoted post unanswered, for fear that others might think it relevant to the topic.

[Capealava]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

I think you had a functioning democracy - and then two functioning democracies - last time you had a civil war.

I guess that we are lucky that our democratic processes are effective enough to return us a government that is accepted by the vast majority of the country - crown, people and institutions alike, regardless of whether it is the government that they actually wanted.

But to blame the government for the actions of the army under a different government seems - obtuse. This government could not have prevented or averted or in any way mitigated that coup, and this government was formed by elected politicians, same as each previous government. I suggest that you take up the issue of ineffective government and coups with former politicians and fugitives.

SC

My apologies for maintaining this off-topic digression, and I understand fully that the mods may wish to delete this post as being off-topic. However, I do not want to leave the quoted post unanswered, for fear that others might think it relevant to the topic.

It is ok Cowboy- We should both just shut up--Bangkok is Burning Now --I am sad

[connda]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

I think you had a functioning democracy - and then two functioning democracies - last time you had a civil war.

I guess that we are lucky that our democratic processes are effective enough to return us a government that is accepted by the vast majority of the country - crown, people and institutions alike, regardless of whether it is the government that they actually wanted.

But to blame the government for the actions of the army under a different government seems - obtuse. This government could not have prevented or averted or in any way mitigated that coup, and this government was formed by elected politicians, same as each previous government. I suggest that you take up the issue of ineffective government and coups with former politicians and fugitives.

SC

My apologies for maintaining this off-topic digression, and I understand fully that the mods may wish to delete this post as being off-topic. However, I do not want to leave the quoted post unanswered, for fear that others might think it relevant to the topic.

It is ok Cowboy- We should both just shut up--Bangkok is Burning Now --I am sad

Yo' guys -- it's over! Some of the Red Shirt leaders turned themselves in to police over an hour ago. Buses are at National Statium to transport the protesters back to their home provinces. The authorities breached the compound.

Hopefully, cooler minds will prevail as this country picks itself up -- again -- and tries to sort this all out.

[mitrapaap]

Imagine if a radical minority party tried to achieve separatism in a small part of the UK through a violent campaign hiding behind peaceful protesters, and allegedly discharging firearms at the security forces....

Would they be allowed to set up a fortress in the streets and stand off against the security forces for several weeks?

I think the big difference is in the training and equipment of the security forces, not any difference in the politics.

SC

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

Not referring to the situation now, means not being on topic.

[mitrapaap]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

I am not referring to the situation now. I am referring to the functioning of a mature democracy. A military coup would not be allowed to take place in the USA. PERIOD and i do not think it would be condoned in UK either. I leave this thread with that said.

I think you had a functioning democracy - and then two functioning democracies - last time you had a civil war.

I guess that we are lucky that our democratic processes are effective enough to return us a government that is accepted by the vast majority of the country - crown, people and institutions alike, regardless of whether it is the government that they actually wanted.

But to blame the government for the actions of the army under a different government seems - obtuse. This government could not have prevented or averted or in any way mitigated that coup, and this government was formed by elected politicians, same as each previous government. I suggest that you take up the issue of ineffective government and coups with former politicians and fugitives.

SC

My apologies for maintaining this off-topic digression, and I understand fully that the mods may wish to delete this post as being off-topic. However, I do not want to leave the quoted post unanswered, for fear that others might think it relevant to the topic.

It is ok Cowboy- We should both just shut up--Bangkok is Burning Now --I am sad

Yo' guys -- it's over! Some of the Red Shirt leaders turned themselves in to police over an hour ago. Buses are at National Statium to transport the protesters back to their home provinces. The authorities breached the compound.

Hopefully, cooler minds will prevail as this country picks itself up -- again -- and tries to sort this all out.

Over? continue to watch TV. The red "leaders" have lost control over their followers. Those who still believe in those leaders may be on the way home, but there is a considerable number of red mobs who just think it is fun to create more damage on their own. Hope the armed forces will not hesitate to take care of them.

[nickupton]

If the coup had taken place in my country, the leaders would have been executed. Armed citizen militias would have been organized to take out any junta that remained. It would be a fight to death for millions. The US does not take kindly to these military coups! It never would have gotten to this junta-assisted puppet govt.

true, but in USA nobody would be allowed to execute 2500 people (as Taksin did) claiming a "war on drug", Taksin would have been executed so no coup would have ever taken place.

But in US Thaksin wouldn't have been able to bribe opposition politicians to join him nor would he have been able to buy people's vote, so the coup wouldn't have happened.

[jdinasia]

The Red Shirt movement has much in common with the anti-war protests and civil rights movement of the last century in the USA. Groups capable of violence like the Black Panthers and Weather Underground co-existed with a larger social movement towards a greater good. Some right-wingers like J. Edgar Hoover attempted to discredit the entire liberal left on account of these groups.

The Panthers etc never marched along with MLKjr or sat in on a school campus with others while threatening to burn down Biloxi ....

Then again some people will try and make any link ... Thaksin compared himself to Ghandi and Mandela --- the difference being those 2 gentlemen served their time and Ghandi never tried to get people to do his dirty work!

If the reds had tried this crap "back home" there would have been kill teams all over and the leaders would have gone down quickly under the guise of the Patriot Act.

There never would have been a coup there though, as no leader would have stayed illegally after his mandate was up (like Thaksin did)

[Crushdepth]

Mere possession of automatic weapons and *grenades* would guarantee an immediate dispersal with force by the authorities. The protesters would not need to fire a single bullet.

But if they were unarmed, it would be a totally different story.

[jdinasia]

Mere possession of automatic weapons and *grenades* would guarantee an immediate dispersal with force by the authorities. The protesters would not need to fire a single bullet.

But if they were unarmed, it would be a totally different story.

With different government agencies lining up to have the privilege of taking out any armed resistance! If an officer of the government (Jatuporn is an MP) was one of those on stage he'd grobably never get the chance for a needle in the arm as he'd be one of the first taken out to stop his sedition.

[kaengk]

If this had happened in Myanmar, a group of peaceful protests led by Aung Sang Suu Kyi accompanied by relatively small numbers of armed guards and trouble-makers, the Myanmar military would have crushed them. The government would be labelling them terrorists, jailing and executing them, they would be censoring the internet and condemning the foreign press and enforcing curfews. They would suspend elections of any sort and all government stations would be televising the party line.