Bangkok: Central World Shopping Mall Destroyed By Fire

[Grey11]

I completely agree this is not the way to solve things. But I also think that the violent mob that has been causing a lot of this wasn't really ever part of the red shirt movement and what it was about. I believe that the intentions of the real red shirt movement were always non-violent, but the groups that then got attached is what steered the whole truck off the street, so to speak. Anyone can now claim to be a red shirt and cause the problems he's always wanted to cause. And I'm sure there are a lot of people doing that right now. I don't think it was ever the intention of the poor rural population that came to Bangkok to sit in front of the stage with their relatives and children.

When Thaksin brought in Sae Daeng full-time as a mercenary, Sae Daeng brought in the mercenary killers known as the Black Shirts to teach the Red Shirts how to use the M79 grenade launchers, make molotov cocktails, etc. These men were armed with AK47s. I imagine Sae Daeng was able to steal loads of military equipment for the upcoming battle as he still has many comrades in the military. At one time the Red Shirt leaders were looking for anyone to be a Red Shirt - drug addicts, alcoholics, convicts, assorted criminals, etc. Now that the Red Shirts have fully released their bloodthirsty hatred for the "elites" Red Shirt apologists are saying that these people burning down all the businesses they can in Bkk and all over the north and northeast, are not Red Shirts. They are Red Shirts. The aim of the Red Shirts was to overthrown the government by any means necessary and that included force. Maybe some of the brainwashed and uneducated peasants who so willingly came to "fight for democracy" had good intentions but still took the money, originally had good intentions. But, they are sheep, followers, and hour after hour of fiery revolutionary talk by the Red Shirt leaders, and they became pawns and some engaged in violence. Certainly many engaged in extending the borders of their nasty camps in broad daylight with police simply watching. I wonder if any of them who were promised more money if they stayed ever got paid. I doubt it. And the tens of thousands or more Thaksin and his wealthy comrades paid to the Red Leaders will probably not be passed out to the so-called "poor" whom these cowards stood behind as human shields.

[hyperlemon]

Maybe off topic but is there still a big army presence in Bangkok?

The dispertion of protesters was handled very badly, army and police presence at major sites around the city (Central World, Bangkok bank etc) would have helped!

All of this is so sad, it will take months to re-build these buildings, years for people to build confidence in Thailand, and the loss of life will never be forgotten.

[Dap]

next thing you know is AOT will announce a backdrop of tourists and they do not know why....

LOL in stead of LOS

Don't worry, they will do a 100 million Baht study in order to find out why the tourist numbers have dropped.

And the commitee meetings will all be held abroad

[perax]

Who underwrites the insurance of Central World? I'd be interested to know in reality who's pocket just took a caning...

Read the small print on any building insurance and you will see that "riot and war" are excluded.

...unless a specific rider is added to the policy in question. I have it on my house policy, it adds very little to the cost of the policy.

[BLUENILE]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

50+ people were killed by the Thai govt and you're worried about a shopping complex!!! something wrong here!

Terrorism has been practiced by a broad array of political organizations for furthering their objectives.

[ozzieman05]

Who underwrites the insurance of Central World? I'd be interested to know in reality who's pocket just took a caning...

Depends on the policy wording. A lot of policies exclude "war, civil and other, declared or not". Most insurance companies would consider what happened today a war and not pay out. Of course, ultimately it depends on how much political influence the policy holder has.

You are correct

Terrorism is not covered in an insurance contract

Neither is war, civil disobedience, or acts of God

So the question is how about acts of Budha

oops sorry off the point

The only way to recover loses is in a civil law suit for negligence of some party that led to the act

Interesting times ahead for x Red shirt leaders

some one has to pay

[nickupton]

The good people of Thailand do not deserve the viciousness of Thaksin's red horde. May they all rot.

I would like to thank the Thai visa forum and the farangs who post here for their support for certain sections of Thai society. Your incessant rants on Thaskin the past several years have certainly made an impression on the minds of the yellow shirts, elitist, military generals, and poser wannabees polarizing the country here as impressionables consider the farang who post here so much more educated and higher status with their white skin and money. Little do they understand the posters here have their own agenda to maintain the status quo ie. Poverty among the poor for the cheep beer and cheep women. Where would Bangkok be without this forum for these posters to come here? OH Yea - BANGKOK BURNING

I knew it. The reds are now blaming farangs.

Peasant revolt.

Illegal roadblocks.

Armed militia dressed in black with red scarves.

Brainwashing.

Incitement to violence.

Attacks on the freedom of speech.

1 summary execution (lets hope there are no more)

Actual violence on a huge scale.

Now anti-foreigner sentiment.

Just genocide and torture chambers to go then.

[ozzieman05]

Please don't tell me about constitutional democracy and that Apbisit is there constitutionally. The point is the yellow camp don't want an election as that will mean red power. Quite simple really.

Explain *how* its undemocratic or unconstitutional. Come on lets hear it! Give us some facts to support your argument. You don't actually understand the structure of the Thai government or parliamentary process, do you?

My Thai wifes uni girlfriend teaches Thai politics at University so I have a pretty good idea

and I can tell you now stop eating that Som Tam it will fry your brain completely

[bikerlou47]

FREEDOM FIGHTERS FOR SURE!

Heros of Thailand!

What a load of BS. All these people are, are terrorists. That word is over used these days, but anyone who would kill, bomb, burn the residents and businesses of a city are clearly a threat.

After its all said and done it seems that the reds will lose the respect they had earned, and the bargaining chips they had are gone.

Nope, they are freedom fighters going to extraordinary lengths to achieve the outcome most of us take for granted.

Is the French Revolution regarded as acts of terrorism? Did anyone call the Greece rioters terrorists? And you haven't seen the last of Europe in flames either, guaranteed.

And it really is none of our f**king business...

[mitrapaap]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

Farangs won't be voting for the anybody at all, they have no vote.

the only way out of this mess is proper elections, Abhisit was put in place by the army. after all of this i doubt if Tahksin will get back in, this mess has back fired on him. ufortunately in a society were corruption is commonplace and accepted there can be no real democracy. So I dont see the problems going away in our lifetime, unless someone realy wants to change things. The real sad point is the country we all love is imploding, once the troubles stop will the tourists come back? if not what happens to the hard working law abiding people of Thailand who will be the ones most hurt by this madness.

Abhisit was put in place by the army... Have you been inconcious for a few months or so? Or just have a black out in your memory?

[Heng]

If anything it's time to introduce controlled access (as an extension of the current ID card system... perhaps with more distinct color coding) to Bangkok with preferential treatment going to those who actually own property and businesses in the city.

[eggomaniac]

I'm not a red supporter, so that is why I am saying this. This incident is nothing compared to what is around the corner. Think of Thailand like a ship. This is a shot across the bow.

The information I had, 'specultive' at the time, in 2007, that Thailand was heading for a break up into 3 Nations is looming.

I was heckled when I said the red movement was larger than expected, I was laughed at when I said Thailand was on the brink of Civil War, you can flame about Thailand breaking up, but there are NO resolutions to the cause of the problems.

The Joseph Solution incorporates remedies that fulfill the wishes of 95% of Thais and strip the control 5% who are causing the chaos, the red AND yellow leaders AND the corrupt politicians AND the corrupt generals.

If nobody wants to listen to implement The Joseph Plan, the only other option is to go North Korea and Burma. Shut down the internet. Close the iron doors to the World. An open door to the World does NOT work for the WESTERN BORROWED type of political system Thailand has. They need to model themselves after Burma and put the people in political cages.

OR, they can Implement The Joseph Solution and become a G30 Nation!

[Thaihog]

Thanks to the mindless actions of Toxin's thugs tens of thousand's of people have lost their jobs, all in the name of democracy.........

If the government really wanted to gain brownie points they would use Toxin's seized millions and put the money to good use by creating jobs and helping the rural poor......

[djvolak]

Do we know 100% of sure if this is to put on the account of the red or black provocators which take profit to play terrorists.

Maybe we juge more quick as the fire burn. No No, I don't accept any terrorists acts of any colour.

Ok look at who benifits from the fires? Who benifits from the chaos? Did the owners of the mall have any kind of beef with he who calls the shots. Like the banks that are being bombed and now robbed. Hey just a thought but I think it's easy to trace it all back to a single source and all here know that too. Hire mercenaries to do a job and they will do that job if they money keeps coming the trouble they bring will keep coming too. Have fun with that one all!! Peace, Love, and Light to guide your paths.

[SanSaiExPat]

I hope that the owners of this Mall sue the finacial backers of the Red Shirts for every penny they have!

would be great if the red rioters build it back with backbreaking labor through blood, sweat and tears (unpaid) as community service.

Who do you think built it in the first place?!? For a couple baht a day.

Don't worry about it. It was burnt for the insurance money. It was in need of a major renovation anyway. It will all get fixed up "pretty as pink" in 6 months. You Yellow loving Hi So Liberals are all so bloody melodramatic when your shopping venue's are attacked. My advice, calm down...all will be fine.

[321niti123]

Maybe off topic but is there still a big army presence in Bangkok?

The dispertion of protesters was handled very badly, army and police presence at major sites around the city (Central World, Bangkok bank etc) would have helped!

All of this is so sad, it will take months to re-build these buildings, years for people to build confidence in Thailand, and the loss of life will never be forgotten.

Army soldiers and police still here but you can hardly expect the incompetent force that cant stop some fat guy from climbing out the window, the same force that cannot stop a mob from taking ratchaprasong. Especially now when the mod is not located at one point or a few points but now spread out through out the story.

[BLUENILE]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

50+ people were killed by the Thai govt and you're worried about a shopping complex!!! something wrong here!

Terrorism has been practiced by a broad array of political organizations for furthering their objectives.

Thaksin warning

Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted Thai prime minister whom many of the red shirts support, said he feared a military crackdown could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.

"There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas," Thaksin told the Reuters news agency by telephone today.

[BLUENILE]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

50+ people were killed by the Thai govt and you're worried about a shopping complex!!! something wrong here!

Terrorism has been practiced by a broad array of political organizations for furthering their objectives.

Thaksin warning

Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted Thai prime minister whom many of the red shirts support, said he feared a military crackdown could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.

"There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas," Thaksin told the Reuters news agency by telephone today.

[Workingman]

I think the reds are basically peacefull, but Abhisit always changes his mind saying I will desolve parliament and organise elections, the putting all this on hold!

How can anyone trust him?

I would get violent too

Abhisit has to resign if he wants peace back in Thailand!

We all see how good are the Reds!!! Peacefully and all...

I mean, do you have eyes??? Do you see what is going on in Bangkok and not just there??

I suggest to keep such idiot comment in your head

[Heng]

Thank almighty God that Emporium, Central Chidlom, and Paragon have survived.

Will also say a prayer tonight in thanks for the original Villa Market surviving this rebellion.

[mzqueenie]

Can't believe it has come to this. I was right there less than a year ago. At first I thought the protest was done after the army moved in, but these so called 'Red Shirts' had to resort to terrorist acts, it hits hard in the heart of the people of Bangkok, and Thailand. I have friends and relatives living in Bangkok, all are safe which I am glad but the fact that hundreds of people there have now come back and without their jobs breaks your heart having to witness such horrible scenes. I hope they do repair the Central World plaza, along the stability of Bangkok gets back on its feet.

Also to add; along with those displeased with Thaksin and his followers who are attached to his pocket. Shame on him for making Thailand become like this, he has the voice to tell his supporters to stop it but didn't at all from the beginning. You are the leader of the red shirts, you can't deny it. You're only concern is to try to come back to Thailand with power, money, paying people to vote for you and corruption.

[britmaveric]

On a positive note - Central will be busier in Pattaya now.

[mzqueenie]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

50+ people were killed by the Thai govt and you're worried about a shopping complex!!! something wrong here!

Terrorism has been practiced by a broad array of political organizations for furthering their objectives.

Thaksin warning

Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted Thai prime minister whom many of the red shirts support, said he feared a military crackdown could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.

"There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas," Thaksin told the Reuters news agency by telephone today.

Thaksin warning sounds more of what he plans and what he wants, to bring Thailand and the current government to its knees, so he could come back to Thailand and take power again.

[ETatBKK]

Thaksin warning

Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted Thai prime minister whom many of the red shirts support, said he feared a military crackdown could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.

"There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas," Thaksin told the Reuters news agency by telephone today.

great leader ! he can tell what it is supposed to be happened !

( or gently, he commands suggests it )

Edited May 19, 2010 by ETatBKK

[ridgydidge]

We farang may not have a vote but we have a choice not to spend 1 satang on any red related business moving forward, from somtam seller to beverage company.

Seems like many on the board are new, don't you know how Thais act? Watch them in a street fight, 5-20 against one if they can get it. They do NOT share Western ideas of property or value of life. Maybe they are not wrong, but they sure are different. I have a few friends who are Thai and they feel shame over some of the things that are happening. But Central World burning will often get the response, so what I don't shop there.

The important thing is for us expats to realize that these are our hosts. These are the people that run this country from the bug vendor to the PM. I exclude the King as he seems to be the only demonstrably great guy around. I weep for this country when he passes.

My wife and I have been talking about how one can feel safe in this country? I am not sure. I have had 3 unsuccessful pickpocket attempts on me. one successful, a rip off by maid, several tools and shiny things pocketed by "workers" I was unable to watch constantly and an attempted grab for my Baht chain while on a baht bus. My wife had her wallet stolen out of her purse in Carrefour. Idiots have blocked roads, airports, and burned their city. It is true that pick pockets abound in other parts of the world and political riots often get out of hand. So what is different? I can not read these folks.

There is another man from my neck of the woods that has a business here in Pataya and often took the same driver I used on multiple trips to Bangkok. This guy was charming. My friend had put him up in his house when it was too late for a return trip to Bangkok. One day our trusted driver called us and maybe others with the need for 2,000 baht to get his wife out of the hospital. We were already set up with this information a week or so before and we both deposited money in his account. I got took for $2000 my friend for $3,000. The point is that we as westerners do not have the chops to judge these folks. My thiefdar don't work here, neither does my terroristdar.

I have never been pick pocketed in any other country and I am not the kind of man who is usually targeted. I am over 6'4" tall and a too hefty 232 lbs. In my old home country people often are killed in drug deals, answer stay away from that area. Here the people seem to bring it to where I want to be. I need to go to Bumrungrad and most staff and my doc are staying away and there is a warning on the website. When people asked why would you move to Thailand one of the answers was always the people. When I can finally leave this place I will be sad for what it once was and when people ask me why I left Thailand my answer will be the same as why I came here, the people.

kdf

You clearly haven't got a f**ing clue about the troubles in Thailand and what the REAL cause of the problems are. Unfortunately I can't tell you because I'll get banned. But one of the paragraphs in your statement is so far from the truth it ain't even funny.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ridgydidge

[bolx]

This guy was charming. My friend had put him up in his house when it was too late for a return trip to Bangkok. One day our trusted driver called us and maybe others with the need for 2,000 baht to get his wife out of the hospital. We were already set up with this information a week or so before and we both deposited money in his account. I got took for $2000 my friend for $3,000. The point is that we as westerners do not have the chops to judge these folks.

Am I missing something here? He asked for 2000baht but between you and your friend, you gave him $5000?

I think anyone from anywhere would take advantage of someone like you!

[kdf]

Sorry for large type. High resolution monitor and aging eyes.

kdf

[whybother]

Come on - you didn't need to be a phophet to know what was going to happen. It could have been avoided if the government had moved at the very beginning - they DIDN'T - it would have been avoided if the Police and army acted earlier and decisively - THEY DIDN'T. I wonder why - maybe they feel a bit guilty about how they came to power (banning a polititian for apearing on a cooking programme, removing Members of Parliament because of a Court ruling which was rather one sided) - maybe they couldn't act quickly because they had totally failed to do anything about the Yellow folk occupying the airports and doing damage equivalent, in economic terms, to 10 Central Worlds. The Government and the cabinest and the officials have handled this badly - they should resign and call fresh elections - OOPPs maybe that is what they should have done at the beginning to make them legitimate - maybe having the guy who ran the Yellow protest movement in charge of Security wasn't a very good idea. Maybe assasinating a rebel general with a sniper shot in the head was something that made folk just a little p'ed off.

If the current Government stays on after this it will have no authority - if the current military planners and commanders stay on after this they will have no respect - If there is not a major change in how Thailand is run after this - the country it will have no regional respect and if these required changes aren't public and universally acceptable to all the population - Thailand ain't going to recover from the damage this has done to the country's image. 24 - 7 on BBC and CNN. People are asking why is there so much anger in the Land of Smiles. Ask yourself

I actually don't think it would have been a good idea for Abhisit to crack down early.

He needed to win some support from those sitting on the fence or supporting the reds for their "social issues".

The reds then made their biggest blunder by storming the Chula Hospital. This gave Abhisit much more support to crack down on the protestors.

It didn't matter so much that he lost some support from the "yellow" side, but he had to get some support from the "red" side. Not just for the next elections, but for the longer term stability of Thailand.

The army were able to shut down the main protest without killing or injuring any women or children.

If you look out there now, there aren't widespread protests by the people. There are a few hundred in the reds strong hold areas burning down government buildings, and there are a few around Bangkok causing trouble.

Only the hard core reds are out there causing trouble now, and that is going to give the reds much support either.

This won't necessarily make Abhisit electable at the next election, but it's got more people into the middle, to support democratic processes.

If Abhisit had gone in hard too early, he probably would have had a popular uprising. Now he only has to deal with some hard core reds that everyone knows are breaking the law.

[Dazzler]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Abhisit offer an election this year?

And he withdrew the offer because it was based on the Reds ending their protesters.

But what will happen is this. If Abhisit survives, he will call elections this year. I would bet on it.

He withdrew the offer when the reds made additional demands. Thaksin did not see anything to gain from a Roadmap and elections.

[andrewbkk]

One day our trusted driver called us and maybe others with the need for 2,000 baht to get his wife out of the hospital. We were already set up with this information a week or so before and we both deposited money in his account. I got took for $2000 my friend for $3,000. The point is that we as westerners do not have the chops to judge these folks.

You don't need "chops" to judge these folks; you need common sense.

If your "trusted driver" asked for 2,000 baht and you ended up being taken for $2,000, then you are a fool.

If a Thai asks me for money, I just smile and say "mai mee satang". Only fools get duped.