Bangkok: Central World Shopping Mall Destroyed By Fire

[rixalex]

Democracy is not about the MPs. Its about the people. How would you feel if you voted for your local Tory candidate, then his party is dissolved, then he joins the Lib Dems. You would feel cheated because you voted Tory, not Lib Dem.

If it were me i'd feel angry that the party i placed my faith in and had voted for, had cheated. That aside, the business of MPs switching allegiance is normal pratice. For example, when the PPP party managed to cobble together a coalition government in 2007 they did so with the support of some parties that had during the election campaign stated that they would not join hands with the PPP... and yet they did... and i don't recall the red shirts having a problem with this practice then, do you?

[chadintheusa]

However almost 100% of the store owners inside the Central, that had insurance did not have the rider for terrorism or riots and are not covered.

With the prevalence of terrorist acts these days, can't help wondering why those taking out insurance accept having this disclaimer.

If you are going to do business in a mall that used to be called the World Trade Center you might want to insure against terrorism.

[sbk]

I realize thirty pages is a bit much to ask, but can we at least attempt to not loop the same endless arguments regarding elections etc etc etc etc? Its more than a tad monotonous especially considering this thread is supposed to be about the arson that brought down Central World. cheers

[SomTumTiger]

I realize thirty pages is a bit much to ask, but can we at least attempt to not loop the same endless arguments regarding elections etc etc etc etc? Its more than a tad monotonous especially considering this thread is supposed to be about the arson that brought down Central World. cheers

It is a lot to ask. The Thaksin PR workers are putting in overtime to bring every conversation to that point. I wonder if they know that Farang don't have anything to do with Thai elections? lol

[hyperdimension]

Looking at photos and videos published today or yesterday, much of Central World remains standing. I would presume a lot of the stores are still fine.

It looks like that this is another case of sensationalist journalism, as I think a lot of people, including myself, thought (or at least feared) that it was completely destroyed, especially when the only images we see are the burning or burned section.

[brahmburgers]

Why aren't the protesters forced/compelled to do the clean up - or at least pay for it?

I'll say it again: take the arrested protesters, all of them (not just the minions, but also the leaders), - handcuff them two by two, at their hands and feet. Each pair of detainees has two hands free, one from each person, sort of like an interrupted daisy chain. Force them down the street, picking up litter. For those who don't comply, try a bit of persuasion at the end of a horse whip.

A bit of trivia: Did you know a horsewhip's tip travels faster than the speed of sound? Yes, and that's what gives it its loud snap. Effective at clipping off bits of flesh from man or beast, particularly if there's a little piece of metal attached to the end of the whip.

[brahmburgers]

I wonder if the government will become insurers of last resort. Didn't they just come into a couple of billion dollars from someone.

Yes, the government recently confiscated a billion dollars from Thaksin, but that was money owed the government for other Thaksin transgressions - not for the riots. Yes, we know Thaksin was one of the main driving forces behind the riots and arson of last week, but we must not lump the two together (tax evasion and arsonist mob).

If Thaksin is found to have bankrolled the leaders who worked the Red mob into a destructive frenzy (and indirectly paid rally attendees), then T should be held at least partially accountable for the destruction. With the long list of others (friends and family of T) who likely contributed funding for the Red rallies being investigated, those others should also be compelled to pay their share of compensation. If you paid 10% for the rallies, then you should pay 10% of the damages caused by them.

[jitenshaman]

Does anybody know why these targets were chosen?

For instance, they could have gone for Gaysorn, Amarin and Siam Paragon. Neither was targeted.

Why did they choose the two cinemas and Central World? Also, why Center One? Is that the big mall where everybody goes to buy clothes with the McDonalds on the ground floor?

The targets seem an odd choice to me.

.... I see somebody else has asked the same questions.

I still also think that my theory that the arsons were allowed to take place in order to clearly paint the UDD as the villains is plausible. Remember that the US government used the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center as a prelude and justification to their war in Iraq (even though they could not find any link between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein).

Possibly some of the attacks were not connected with the UDD at all; criminals may have simply taken the opportunity to break into stores and enter and steal.

I went down there yesterday...while places like Gaysorn were not targeted, it does have plenty of bullet holes and smashed glass as a by product of the fighting, but what seems very very strange is that Siam Paragon, while the entire side of the street opposite it has been gutted, does not have one scratch, one blemish on it...how is that possible? You'd think in the middle of a massive riot and firefight that something would have been damaged.

[DrThomas]

Democracy is not about the MPs. Its about the people. How would you feel if you voted for your local Tory candidate, then his party is dissolved, then he joins the Lib Dems. You would feel cheated because you voted Tory, not Lib Dem.

If it were me i'd feel angry that the party i placed my faith in and had voted for, had cheated. That aside, the business of MPs switching allegiance is normal pratice. For example, when the PPP party managed to cobble together a coalition government in 2007 they did so with the support of some parties that had during the election campaign stated that they would not join hands with the PPP... and yet they did... and i don't recall the red shirts having a problem with this practice then, do you?

Firstly, The red shirts didn't exist in 2007.

Secondly, just because there were no demonstrations doesn't mean people weren't unhappy.

Thirdly, the fact that switching parties is rife is part of the overarching problem. All sides of politics in Thailand are far too quick to move the goal posts around when they are not getting their own way.

Democracy is about the people, and they are not getting a fair deal.

[Time Traveller]

Has anyone heard a rumour that the owners of Paragon made a last minute "donation" to the red shirts to prevent any damage to their center from rioters?

After looking at the damage to Siam square and Central world, I'm a little amazed at how Siam Paragon escaped, despite many vocalised threats against it during the last week.

[cup-O-coffee]

People running and people dancing can be doctored up in a movie clip to seem any way one might want it to seem.

Images - yes, video clips - not really, and certainly not with the level of technology that's being used. Of course that's not to say video clips can't and haven't been doctored, but those that have are obvious for what they are.

That the red shirts are responsible is, again, a view that I refuse to believe in.

Just to be clear, are you saying the reds shouldn't be held responsible for their actions, or are you saying that they are not responsible people - ie irresponsible?

What I am saying is that the posters herein summarily make broad brush strokes in their labeling of individual and group action. I am one of the few who will admit that I am not remotely prepared to cast judgment about events and people in which I do not have any circumstantial or forensic evidence to cast judgment. But that is the old way of doing things. Nowadays, the law enforcement agencies cast judgment upon people simply because they fill a profile, and then motive and intent is brought into the case; and most self-appointed jurists cast judgment for any amount of varying reasons; yet for reasons that make me glad that I am not the subject of their judgment.

To answer more clearly, to single out the actions of the red shirts and to interpret what their responsibility is; is, to say the least, irresponsible and obtuse. Yes, people committed crimes, as per the laws of the land, but to view these crimes without viewing what provoked them; and to also be even-handed at what provoked them and to be objective enough to admit that these people are very upset about their leader being ousted, and then a puppet put in his place without their vote; well, that would constitute a more lenient judgment process. After all, these people are all Thai and it is imperative that leniency be used to preserve the common good of the nations unity. I think the current government is void of this concept.

The government had the upper hand throughout all of this, and yet I am of the opinion that they bungled the matter terribly, abused their power, and that there will be unhealed wounds for a long time to come.

[cup-O-coffee]

People running and people dancing can be doctored up in a movie clip to seem any way one might want it to seem.

Images - yes, video clips - not really, and certainly not with the level of technology that's being used. Of course that's not to say video clips can't and haven't been doctored, but those that have are obvious for what they are.

That the red shirts are responsible is, again, a view that I refuse to believe in.

Just to be clear, are you saying the reds shouldn't be held responsible for their actions, or are you saying that they are not responsible people - ie irresponsible?

NO he is saying he can't believe trhe red shirts are responsable for any violence.

Because the evil government must have doctored all the visual evidence.

Classic case of denial. Dreams shattered, no can't be... I'll stick with what I understand.

It is either a message from Perception Managment central, (yo Bobby A. fek off.)

Or from fantasy-land or amature troll-land.

Are the Redshirts responsible for this mess? Their leaders allowed their greed to run amok,

and created a monster they couldn't control, rabble rousers one an all.

They are grossly irresponsible in their actions,

but still to be held resonsible for their actions.

No matter what apologists can rant on about here, the evidence is there to be collected,

and the main problem will be sorting it out, because there is SO MUCH to prove culpability.

animatic, if you have anything original to say, then say it. Of course, you are entitled to your opinions, but I will thank you to keep a guard against typing on behalf of people you do not know, and without their permission.

Your response denotes ranting about moot points, yet no solution is offered, and instead you chew on other people's proffered opinions with nary a show of respect.

To correct your gross err in interpretation, I am saying that the audience only knows what they see and hear, as provided to them by questionable sources. Furthermore, the accused and the allegedly guilty are individuals whom we also do not know. What I do know is that it is easier to find a fall guy, who is a person without means, and hang him up by a string, and then used the appropriate resources to accelerate the "justice system" and process this person before anyone gets a chance to give due diligence to the matter. What is more difficult and dangerous is to get to the truth of the matter, because the ones seeking the truth will step on toes and make themselves, their loved ones, and everything they cherish very vulnerable to future attack.

Now ask yourself which is the path of least resistance, and there you have it. I am speaking about the powers that be conveniently arranging for the glass to be twice as large - rather than half full or half empty - before even putting the liquid in the container.

Edited May 24, 2010 by cup-O-coffee

[FatherF]

So, if it was not the red shirts firing rockets etc...... who was it?

FF

[whybother]

What I am saying is that the posters herein summarily make broad brush strokes in their labeling of individual and group action. I am one of the few who will admit that I am not remotely prepared to cast judgment about events and people in which I do not have any circumstantial or forensic evidence to cast judgment. But that is the old way of doing things. Nowadays, the law enforcement agencies cast judgment upon people simply because they fill a profile, and then motive and intent is brought into the case; and most self-appointed jurists cast judgment for any amount of varying reasons; yet for reasons that make me glad that I am not the subject of their judgment.

To answer more clearly, to single out the actions of the red shirts and to interpret what their responsibility is; is, to say the least, irresponsible and obtuse. Yes, people committed crimes, as per the laws of the land, but to view these crimes without viewing what provoked them; and to also be even-handed at what provoked them and to be objective enough to admit that these people are very upset about their leader being ousted, and then a puppet put in his place without their vote; well, that would constitute a more lenient judgment process. After all, these people are all Thai and it is imperative that leniency be used to preserve the common good of the nations unity. I think the current government is void of this concept.

The government had the upper hand throughout all of this, and yet I am of the opinion that they bungled the matter terribly, abused their power, and that there will be unhealed wounds for a long time to come.

So, because they don't understand that the current government is as legitimate as the Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai governments, that gives them the excuse to burn down buildings?

[JSixpack]

Has anyone heard a rumour that the owners of Paragon made a last minute "donation" to the red shirts to prevent any damage to their center from rioters?

After looking at the damage to Siam square and Central world, I'm a little amazed at how Siam Paragon escaped, despite many vocalised threats against it during the last week.

Yes, indirectly. A reliable, educated Thai businessperson I know says, from personal sources as well as talk shows in the Thai media, that the red shirts were extorting the businesses in their control. Either they paid up or they got burned down. Central was told to pay 30 million and didn't so that's why it got burned, according to what I heard. I dunno if it's true or not, but it sure seems like it could very well be true!

[animatic]

When I said timely I was actually thinking in the past tense. When 3 parties were dissolved early last year, a significant proportion of voters in the previous election no longer had a representative in the parliament. That was the proper time to dissolve parliament and let the people speak again.

If that had occurred then this would not be happening now.

To answer your question, no November was certainly not timely enough.

There were by-elections. Everyone is represented.

There were some by-elections. Many MPs just swithed party.

Democracy is not about the MPs. Its about the people. How would you feel if you voted for your local Tory candidate, then his party is dissolved, then he joins the Lib Dems. You would feel cheated because you voted Tory, not Lib Dem.

The proper thing to do at that time was call a fresh election.

Two points.

The ex-torys would switch to New Torys, as PPP to PTP.

But if the Liberal Dems at that time,

decided New Tory's are tainted and swiched to Labou,

that is a more proper anlogy.

Now those that voted Lib Dem would likely have been happier with Labour,

but were happy enough with Lib Dem having cabinet posts,

if that chamged to Labour and cabinets posts, why would they be sad?

They are STILL in government.

So lets look at the Thai parties that switched from PPP to Dems.

They ran on a platform of NOT partnering to PPP, but then did, and got seats at the table.

When PPP was discredited, the PPP caretaker PM did NOT call an election,

and they saw working with Chalerm and Jatuporn as total dead ends,

rather than with Newin, who shows more negotiation skills, but more independence.

He left and so did other smaller groups, enough to shift the balance.

They took their votes back from PPP where they ORIGINALLY SOLD OUT and went to Dems.

And THEIR constituents are STILL IN GOVERNMENT.

Win/win for the people who voted for them, but lose for the dregs of PPP.

Those that whine that their vote is not for Dems, 'still have their votes counted', PTP,

but the SWING VOTES left them because they had cause to. Ineptitude.

[whybother]

Looking at photos and videos published today or yesterday, much of Central World remains standing. I would presume a lot of the stores are still fine.

It looks like that this is another case of sensationalist journalism, as I think a lot of people, including myself, thought (or at least feared) that it was completely destroyed, especially when the only images we see are the burning or burned section.

If you'd read more than the headlines, you would have read that the main area that was gutted was ZEN at the south eastern corner.

The rest will definitely have smoke damage and maybe water damage. The hotel is undamaged and is planning to open on June 1.

[whybother]

When I said timely I was actually thinking in the past tense. When 3 parties were dissolved early last year, a significant proportion of voters in the previous election no longer had a representative in the parliament. That was the proper time to dissolve parliament and let the people speak again.

If that had occurred then this would not be happening now.

To answer your question, no November was certainly not timely enough.

There were by-elections. Everyone is represented.

There were some by-elections. Many MPs just swithed party.

Democracy is not about the MPs. Its about the people. How would you feel if you voted for your local Tory candidate, then his party is dissolved, then he joins the Lib Dems. You would feel cheated because you voted Tory, not Lib Dem.

The proper thing to do at that time was call a fresh election.

The MPs still represent the people that voted for them. If the people don't like what they do, then they won't get elected in the next election. From what I understand, the Newin group will still get elected, as the people vote for them because they are the Newin group.

There are plenty of examples where MPs cross the floor and vote against their party. In this case, they decided to form a new seperate party, which is allowed under Thai law.

The PPP and PTP could have called an election before they lost power. Instead, they decided to go for a vote to elect a new PM to replace Somchai (who had come to power in the same way).

They lost.

If the proper thing to do was to call an election, then go and complain to the PPP and PTP.

[hyperdimension]

Has anyone heard a rumour that the owners of Paragon made a last minute "donation" to the red shirts to prevent any damage to their center from rioters?

After looking at the damage to Siam square and Central world, I'm a little amazed at how Siam Paragon escaped, despite many vocalised threats against it during the last week.

Yes, indirectly. A reliable, educated Thai businessperson I know says, from personal sources as well as talk shows in the Thai media, that the red shirts were extorting the businesses in their control. Either they paid up or they got burned down. Central was told to pay 30 million and didn't so that's why it got burned, according to what I heard. I dunno if it's true or not, but it sure seems like it could very well be true!

Did the UDD leaders, whilst at Rajprasong, ever announce to the audience which particular buildings and businesses to leave alone?

[hyperdimension]

Looking at photos and videos published today or yesterday, much of Central World remains standing. I would presume a lot of the stores are still fine.

It looks like that this is another case of sensationalist journalism, as I think a lot of people, including myself, thought (or at least feared) that it was completely destroyed, especially when the only images we see are the burning or burned section.

If you'd read more than the headlines, you would have read that the main area that was gutted was ZEN at the south eastern corner.

The rest will definitely have smoke damage and maybe water damage. The hotel is undamaged and is planning to open on June 1.

Yes I did read more than the headlines, but there was undoubtedly sensationalist bias and lack of accurate information, such as how much of the huge building was on fire during the incident and how much was left afterwards. Even if such information was obtained by visual inspection, it would be better than nothing. Look at the original article at the beginning of this thread:

BANGKOK: -- Bangkok's largest shopping mall, the second largest in Asia, has been destroyed by fires.

Reports indicate that the fire, started by protesters shortly after their leaders' surrender, blazed on for hours.

Fire crews could not get on the scene and the department store's own fire crews were unable to stop the blaze.

"has been destroyed by fires" is very different in meaning to "has been partially destroyed by fires".

[TAWP]

It was destroyed by fire. The structure does not have to be crumbled down to be destroyed. Infact, it is so badly burned that the BMA just ordered that it have to be torn down and cannot be partially rebuilt, as the owners had hoped.

[hyperdimension]

It was destroyed by fire. The structure does not have to be crumbled down to be destroyed. Infact, it is so badly burned that the BMA just ordered that it have to be torn down and cannot be partially rebuilt, as the owners had hoped.

You would have seen these two articles in the live update thread:

Posted on 2010-05-24 16:00:11:

BMA insists Center One, CentralWorld and Siam Theatre must be demolished

Thanom On-ketpol, spokesman of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, Monday insisted that Center One shopping mall, CentralWorld shopping mall and Siam Theatre must be demolished.

The BMA spokesman said the three buildings were damaged by fires beyond repairing so they needed to be demolished.

Posted on 2010-05-24 16:40:49 (40 minutes later):

BMA: Parts of Central World to Be Knocked down

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration has concluded that parts of Central World must be knocked down after the fire, on May 19, that continued to burn for more than 48 hours before firefighters could safely begin to put out the flames. Other department stores, also torched by the angry rioters, include Center One, Siam Theater and Dok Ya bookstore will need to be torn down completely.

The key word here is "Parts". The earlier one says it needed to be demolished, which most people would assume completely demolished.

Edited May 24, 2010 by hyperdimension

[TAWP]

First article clearly does not say 'parts', but this is another red herring. Trying to diminish the responsibility of the red thugs over word usage in news reports? Shame on you.

[hyperdimension]

First article clearly does not say 'parts', but this is another red herring. Trying to diminish the responsibility of the red thugs over word usage in news reports? Shame on you.

I am criticizing the media (sensationalist bias and inaccuracies), not defending the perpetrators of the crime.

[animatic]

cup-O-coffee' =2010-05-21

People running and people dancing can be doctored up in a movie clip to seem any way one might want it to seem.

Images - yes, video clips - not really, and certainly not with the level of technology that's being used. Of course that's not to say video clips can't and haven't been doctored, but those that have are obvious for what they are.

That the red shirts are responsible is, again, a view that I refuse to believe in.

Just to be clear, are you saying the reds shouldn't be held responsible for their actions, or are you saying that they are not responsible people - ie irresponsible?

NO he is saying he can't believe the red shirts are responsible for any violence.

Because the evil government must have doctored all the visual evidence.

Classic case of denial. Dreams shattered, no can't be... I'll stick with what I understand.

It is either a message from Perception Management central, (yo Bobby A. fek off.)

Or from fantasy-land or amateur troll-land.

Are the Redshirts responsible for this mess? Their leaders allowed their greed to run amok,

and created a monster they couldn't control, rabble rouser's one an all.

They are grossly irresponsible in their actions,

but still to be held responsible for their actions.

No matter what apologists can rant on about here, the evidence is there to be collected,

and the main problem will be sorting it out, because there is SO MUCH to prove culpability.

animatic, if you have anything original to say, then say it. Of course, you are entitled to your opinions, but I will thank you to keep a guard against typing on behalf of people you do not know, and without their permission.

Your response denotes ranting about moot points, yet no solution is offered, and instead you chew on other people's proffered opinions with nary a show of respect.

To correct your gross err in interpretation, I am saying that the audience only knows what they see and hear, as provided to them by questionable sources. Furthermore, the accused and the allegedly guilty are individuals whom we also do not know. What I do know is that it is easier to find a fall guy, who is a person without means, and hang him up by a string, and then used the appropriate resources to accelerate the "justice system" and process this person before anyone gets a chance to give due diligence to the matter. What is more difficult and dangerous is to get to the truth of the matter, because the ones seeking the truth will step on toes and make themselves, their loved ones, and everything they cherish very vulnerable to future attack.

Now ask yourself which is the path of least resistance, and there you have it. I am speaking about the powers that be conveniently arranging for the glass to be twice as large - rather than half full or half empty - before even putting the liquid in the container.

Tangental deflection technique, and argument ad hominem

Sometimes effective, some times not. NOT! No sale.

"...a view that I refuse to believe in."

Like I said denial. When a preponderance of evidence refutes your belief ignore it all.

I have been a professional video editor, special effects editor and compositor.

And forensic audio/video analyst for courts. How about you? I can tell edits from straight video.

There is a enough straight video to convince a jury that the Red Leaders

encouraged violent insurrection, arson and wanton destruction of Bangkok.

In for a penny on for a pound. In for the long haul too. They're toast,

and I hope the paper trails find their bosses and paymasters too

I never have said due diligence shouldn't be applied here.

Finding a fall guy? Well the red shirt leaders are both antagonists and fall guys for their masters,

but they did the speeches on video record, and the actions they grandly encouraged came to pass.

Oh and that last veiled threat of yours to those seeking the truth...

"What is more difficult and dangerous is to get to the truth of the matter,

because the ones seeking the truth will step on toes and make themselves,

their loved ones, and everything they cherish very vulnerable to future attack."

Well you give yourself away.

And what of the toes they have stepped on already. Less of a force to be reckoned with?

So you say the red side will try and attack the families of the prosecutors, opposing politicians,

and so that justifies giving them a pass. Sounds like 70-80's Italy were the Mafia was

going after the judges. That too was over come, by fearless law enforcement personnel.

Your apologetics and fear mongering do nothing to provide 'solutions'.

My solution is to prosecute all pending cases including PAD, via due process ASAP.

Priority one let the most clear convincing evidence be used to ensure the

safety of the public soonest.

More Java quick, you seem to need it.

MEANING OF CERTITUDE[/b]

Certitude may be defined as the firm and unwavering assent of the mind to known truth.

On the part of the subject, certitude requires a firm and unwavering assent, a steadfast adherence of mind to object.

On the part of the object, certitude requires that this be truth and known as such.

In itself or formally, certitude is a state of mind. It is the condition of the subject.

But it is not something which the subject produces within itself.

It is a state of the subject which results from the manifestation of truth;

the subject is made certain because truth is manifested to it.

Now, the manifestation of truth is, in ultimate analysis, due to evidence,

which is "the visibility of objective truth manifesting itself to the mind."

Hence, evidence is not only the criterion of truth; it is also the motive of certitude;

it moves the mind to an unwavering assent to truth.

Formally subjective, certitude is causally objective.

It is the objective truth, the evidenced truth, which begets the state of mind called certitude.

Certitude, as it exists in the subject, is a firm and unwavering assent and adherence of the mind to known truth.

Its firmness excludes all hesitancy, all fear that perhaps, after all, the mind may be assenting to what is not true.

Thus certitude differs from doubt and suspicion, in which there is no definite assent of mind, and from opinion,

which is, at best, a hesitant or tentative assent involving fear that the opposite of what is assented to may be true.

Certitude rigorously excludes all fear of error.

The firmness of the certain judgment, the certain assent, is due to a reasoned grasp of the motive of certitude.

It, therefore, involves some measure of reflection on the part of the mind, some weighing and evaluating of motive.

The so-called "spontaneous certitudes" are not full and perfect certitudes until the mind adverts to the weight of motive,

of evidence, which calls for its firm assent. Of course, this does not mean that a true certitude requires of the mind a

definite process of point-by-point checking according to a precise schedule of counts; it means that the mind not only

gives firm and full assent, but, in some measure, realizes that it is right and reasonable to give such assent,

before it is constituted in the state of perfect certitude.

http://sedevacantist.com/certainty.html

Edited May 24, 2010 by animatic

[hughben]

From the photo the Bkk governor put up on Twitter of part of the interior, there was flooding. The structure looked fine.

That part of the building wasn't burning.

Unless smoke can destroy reinforced concrete then it looks like that part could be reopened soon.

I wonder when there will be a smoke sale on the clothes that survived?

[animatic]

Looking at photos and videos published today or yesterday, much of Central World remains standing. I would presume a lot of the stores are still fine.

It looks like that this is another case of sensationalist journalism, as I think a lot of people, including myself, thought (or at least feared) that it was completely destroyed, especially when the only images we see are the burning or burned section.

If you'd read more than the headlines, you would have read that the main area that was gutted was ZEN at the south eastern corner.

The rest will definitely have smoke damage and maybe water damage. The hotel is undamaged and is planning to open on June 1.

What fully remains to be seen is lower level structural damaged cause by the long term smoldering fire down below.

Weaken the steel columns and they may not have come down now, but the structural integrety of what the connect WITH

may well be compromised under normal load, not just static open air, without people and goods.

[ozzieman05]

Thai wife told me tonight

her sistar tell her that the Government told the soldiers to burn Central shopping centre

She knows this as 2 soldiers who did it told her

The reason

Wait for it

They let the Red shirts use their toilets

Is there any end to the bullshxt they will try to spread to make themselves look like a peaceful protest

[EyesWideOpen]

Has anyone heard a rumour that the owners of Paragon made a last minute "donation" to the red shirts to prevent any damage to their center from rioters?

After looking at the damage to Siam square and Central world, I'm a little amazed at how Siam Paragon escaped, despite many vocalised threats against it during the last week.

Yes, indirectly. A reliable, educated Thai businessperson I know says, from personal sources as well as talk shows in the Thai media, that the red shirts were extorting the businesses in their control. Either they paid up or they got burned down. Central was told to pay 30 million and didn't so that's why it got burned, according to what I heard. I dunno if it's true or not, but it sure seems like it could very well be true!

If indeed the red shirts were deciding what buildings to burn down, I am fairly amazed they chose to torch Central World. As the King of Thailand is the landowner of Central World.......

So now I am wondering if they knew that, or not. Or perhaps it simply the crowds in a frenzy, burning whatever was in front of them.

[Insight]

Has anyone heard a rumour that the owners of Paragon made a last minute "donation" to the red shirts to prevent any damage to their center from rioters?

After looking at the damage to Siam square and Central world, I'm a little amazed at how Siam Paragon escaped, despite many vocalised threats against it during the last week.

Yes, indirectly. A reliable, educated Thai businessperson I know says, from personal sources as well as talk shows in the Thai media, that the red shirts were extorting the businesses in their control. Either they paid up or they got burned down. Central was told to pay 30 million and didn't so that's why it got burned, according to what I heard. I dunno if it's true or not, but it sure seems like it could very well be true!

If indeed the red shirts were deciding what buildings to burn down, I am fairly amazed they chose to torch Central World. As the King of Thailand is the landowner of Central World.......

So now I am wondering if they knew that, or not. Or perhaps it simply the crowds in a frenzy, burning whatever was in front of them.

You should have a chat with a Mr Jeff Savage.