Abhisit - A Prime Minister Tried By War

[NCFC]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

To say the least. The man doesn't even have the power to make the bad decisions he's been credited with. He is more a joke than a leader.

Put yourself in his shoe and what will you do to solves and contains this chaotic situations. Care to comment?

One option was to do what Thaksin did in early 2006 when the PAD were taking to the streets in protest. He called a general election to seek a mandate from the people.

Now why couldn't Abhisit do the same?

Possibly his handlers wouldn't allow it?

[clockworkorange]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

To say the least. The man doesn't even have the power to make the bad decisions he's been credited with. He is more a joke than a leader.

Put yourself in his shoe and what will you do to solves and contains this chaotic situations. Care to comment?

Abhisit taking responsibility for for the part that he has played in this mess instead of playing the blame game might be a very good start.

[mausplan]

As others have said AV can only be judged with hindsight. He is in a "game" where the other side made the rules and he has to guess what those rules are and then respond.

Give him credit for being steadfast

Yesterday on Al Jezeera , he ( and the Army ) were praised for managing the removal of the protest with so little casualties. From statements made by various speakers on the Red stage yesterday ,the arson and looting was not spontaneous. At least one speaker referred to the instructions and we will let you know when. If the arson did not happen he would be feted today.

AV might be the start of a new breed of Thai politician , at least he not one the recycled "rats with gold teeth" .

[Dudley23]

Although Abhisit, was a bit slow to respond, the action taken was never the less correct. We can support sides and we can so how bad the situation was.

However think about what would of happened if this was New York or Melbourne or London.

Yes the Thai's were a bit inexperienced, but it is a growing economy and rule of law is some times missed, but in the end they got the job done. 100%, same amount of people coming into one of the above countries would be dealt with twice as harshly, you throw Moltov Cocktails at Army hmmmm would they shoot, of course. You threaten abuse police, same thing. Why does it not happen overseas, well because of the Harsh and Severe affect the offenders will be dealt with. A fact for too long the country has allowed these people to get away with, but it has to start some where and this does appear the beginning of that.

Every other country has gone through it, but they are the more western ones, these countries are catching up and should not be scrutinced by us the west, how easily we forgot situation from 100's of years ago, but helped and encouraged. Think the western countries had Amenesty International over ruling and ciriticising what they had done to get were they are, NO.

When you actually listen to how fanatical the reds are, I have lived here long enough, it is a long road but is moving in the right direction.

[canuckamuck]

As others have said AV can only be judged with hindsight. He is in a "game" where the other side made the rules and he has to guess what those rules are and then respond.

Give him credit for being steadfast

Yesterday on Al Jezeera , he ( and the Army ) were praised for managing the removal of the protest with so little casualties. From statements made by various speakers on the Red stage yesterday ,the arson and looting was not spontaneous. At least one speaker referred to the instructions and we will let you know when. If the arson did not happen he would be feted today.

AV might be the start of a new breed of Thai politician , at least he not one the recycled "rats with gold teeth" .

well said

[mac1970]

PM Abhisit has now opportunity to show his leadership, which I believe he has. To convince people on the both sides will be the challenge he need to face and create the solution. This might create and for sure needs some changes behind the scenes. How well he can do it? ...we will see, but that is going to show the direction where the country is going on coming months and years.

Both sides need to understand that the way chosen now, is not an option anymore. Looting and distruction like this is only damaging the movement to improve NE. And there should not be any mercy who did it, for sure. It just puts the blame on all who want to make the change...the right way.

[SomTumTiger]

Deleted Post - error error error - Danger will robinson Danger

Edited May 20, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[viking75]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Road to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

He has mentioned several times, that he and his administration will continue to follow his roadmap to address these issues. Several times.

talk a lot and do nothing.

Nation has backed PAD/Elite/Dem side and is not fighting for survival. cannot fight for its honor or prestige as it has none.

poor falangs like you are next target as reds will close bars as seen as places of enslavement and disgrace for their people. thaksin start to do it before and this why falangs can hate him too much.

Abhisit - a front man tried in the Hague is more factually than nation coward speak

[SomTumTiger]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Road to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

He has mentioned several times, that he and his administration will continue to follow his roadmap to address these issues. Several times.

talk a lot and do nothing.

Nation has backed PAD/Elite/Dem side and is not fighting for survival. cannot fight for its honor or prestige as it has none.

poor falangs like you are next target as reds will close bars as seen as places of enslavement and disgrace for their people. thaksin start to do it before and this why falangs can hate him too much.

Abhisit - a front man tried in the Hague is more factually than nation coward speak

He can close the bars - im a university teacher, i never go. Would be a great thing for Thailand if they did, actually!

The rest of your post was pure drivel, but I appreciate the effort.

[viking75]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

To say the least. The man doesn't even have the power to make the bad decisions he's been credited with. He is more a joke than a leader.

Put yourself in his shoe and what will you do to solves and contains this chaotic situations. Care to comment?

One option was to do what Thaksin did in early 2006 when the PAD were taking to the streets in protest. He called a general election to seek a mandate from the people.

Now why couldn't Abhisit do the same?

Possibly his handlers wouldn't allow it?

quite. Thaksin did honorable thing and put trust in peoples who again and again voted for him even after he left. most falangs ignorant of this because only told by middle class thai friend about one side and never know anything about history or fascists.

I think very crowded in prison now with even handed courts giving same sentences to reds that PADs got at airport.

easiest conviction ever. live footage of a few thousand middle class fascists in yellow shirts. But Court only do bidding for master in elite as well.

New court system have to be part of roadmap. replace junta kangaroos in court.

Warning. many country with more powerful ruthless dictaror than Thailand have been overthrow by people. Some this month!!! Abhist have the blood on hands now and never never will forget this. NEVER.

[viking75]

Ahhh - peace and quiet.

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: clockworkorange.

· View this post

· Un-ignore clockworkorange

I'm jealous. How do you do that?!

Seriously, I can't find an 'ignore' button or link anywhere on this forum. Where the hel_l is it, and why am I the only one who hasn't found it?

Would be handy, given the recent influx of newbies and trolls

It is useful function for blinkered closed mind people who never want to hear different from own opinion.

my advice, grow up or go work for Thai media where you can be told what to think and write for living.

rejoice that free speach still can be on internet.

[animatic]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Roadmap to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

He never took the roadmap off the table.

He said regardless of clearingnout the rally or election dates,

the road map would still go forward.

"...or whether all sides have gone a bridge too far..."

And burned that bridge after they crossed.

I see it as many reds have done just that.

Can't go back because they will do time.

And many have been so brain washed,

oh excuse me, INDOCTRINATED, that they

CAN'T see a path back, nor any way to

cooperate with their fellow citizens constructively.

Sad days.

[Mekhong]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Road to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

He has mentioned several times, that he and his administration will continue to follow his roadmap to address these issues. Several times.

talk a lot and do nothing.

Nation has backed PAD/Elite/Dem side and is not fighting for survival. cannot fight for its honor or prestige as it has none.

poor falangs like you are next target as reds will close bars as seen as places of enslavement and disgrace for their people. thaksin start to do it before and this why falangs can hate him too much.

Abhisit - a front man tried in the Hague is more factually than nation coward speak

You're a funny guy Viking. It's been entertaining having you around the last few days. What are you going to do for kicks now it's all over and your thug leaders have handed themselves in? Get back in your hole and try spreading you BS to people who might believe you

[bangkokjohn]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

Like you often do, you started strong but drew the wrong conclusion. Mob rule did NOT replace the electoral system this time. The government that was in power at the beginning of this mess was not brought down by mob rule. (In fact, mob-rule did not replace any of the last governments either!)

What we are seeing is the beginning of holding governments responsible for the actions of their members and a reduction in corruption.

You suggest mob rule brought down Samak and Somchai and that just isn't true. Samak was brought down by a very minor bit of corruption but could have been put right back into the driver's seat. Had he not broken the law and then LIED about it he'd have been the PM until PPP was dissolved.

Somchai was taken down by the court when they finally ruled on an open and shut case of electoral fraud. This freed Newin up from his commitment to Thaksin's parties and the rest is history!

All this rationalising on Abhisit's claim to power is a well-worn party line that simply hasn't worked. Only Abhisit and his followers believe it - the rest of Thailand and the world see the facade for what it is: a pack of lies, whitewashed with censorship and propaganda. The problem is that Thai people aren't dumb, and have matured to the extent where they just don't accept flimsy excuses as to why their democratic voice was ignored - excuses that may have worked in the past but don't wash anymore, as is evidenced by all the ongoing chaos.

For Abhisit to declare victory, and to be portrayed as a reincarnation of Abe Lincoln while the country burns and is so horribly fractured is premature to say the least. It reminds me of when George W. Bush stood on the deck of that battleship, with the "Mission Accomplished" sign above his head.

Abhist was presented with a political problem.Once he sent in the Army on April 10th with live ammo, it turned into a violent struggle. He should have used water cannon and offered a political compromise. It's going to be a long time before we get back to the Land of Smiles.He should resign.

[SomTumTiger]

Abhist was presented with a political problem.Once he sent in the Army on April 10th with live ammo, it turned into a violent struggle. He should have used water cannon and offered a political compromise. It's going to be a long time before we get back to the Land of Smiles.He should resign.

Revisionist history at its finest. Lets look at reality.

[stevehaigh]

in US civil war, both sides had very different ideologies and goals. in Thailand, i think 95% of the people want peace, democracy and fairness for all the population. the only sticking point seems to be about how fast to achieve that and what to do about Taksin.

hopefully once the remaining radical elements have been dealt with, the government will move quickly to negotiate with the red leaders and call elections so the people really can decide democratically. what happens if the reds (or yellow) loose remains to be seen of course, but at least if there is an election, at least the reds should stop complaining about lack of democracy.

[J*ames Arthur]

Going around facebook are photos showing Abhisit - answering phones in person for the crisis hotline - for ordinary citizens to call for help. How can you not think this is the right man for the job?

I think that people who consult, who ask for help and who do not presume to "know all by themselves" and who are prepared to "lose face" and show they do not know all by themselves are EXACTLY WHAT THAILAND AND ALL COUNTRIES NEED.

Nobody is perfect and I am sure Abbhist is not...but he is doing better then a lot of others.

Thailand desperately needs a new education system one that teaches critical thinking, one that teaches people to evalaute and express opinions. Police corruption and big business interference in government is not only the problem of thailand but thailand needs a plan to really tackle it. It will take time ...

Very well put indeed.

I taught in Thai schools for some time. The schooling system is a disgrace. There is no critical thinking involved whatsoever. Autonomy is not encouraged.

Furthermore, some of the schools I taught in sack their teachers each and every year. This is dreadful for the students as they become attached to the teachers and their individual teaching styles.

Every new year, the students are introduced to new teachers. Obviously, valuable teaching time is lost and each side must introduce and get used to each other. Some schools have now dropped their English Language programmes altogether to save costs. I could go on.

Please do, you are obviously right on topic - as we are discussing PM Abhisit's performance in a crisis. Quite the same thing really....

I cannot work out if you are being facetious or not....

Comments like yours on this website do nothing regarding trying to understand the complex problems this country is currently experiencing.

Obviously, education, or the lack of, is inextricably linked to inequality, marginalization, social exclusion, poverty, understanding social problems, freedom of expression, healthcare etc.

All the above, and of course much more, has led to the situation we have today in Bangkok and other provinces.

Therefore, maybe I am 'obviously right on [the] topic'.

Flaming is not good for anybody. Of course, there will always be different viewpoints on topics.

I hope that Thailand will come through this before more people are killed: before more business is destroyed.

[tlongdon]

Abhist was presented with a political problem.Once he sent in the Army on April 10th with live ammo, it turned into a violent struggle. He should have used water cannon and offered a political compromise. It's going to be a long time before we get back to the Land of Smiles.He should resign.

Revisionist history at its finest. Lets look at reality.

I'm also confused by bangkokjohn's comments. I followed this story closely, sure, but surely anyone who just gave it a cursory glance can remember the bit where Abhisit offered an early election date (i.e. "offered a political compromise")

[ladboykiller12]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

I agree, very sad to see the outcome of yesterday, fantastic shopping centre but sadder still to see death on the streets of this fantastic city, lets hope for an election soon, even after this spectacle I'm certain the red t-shirts would win a landslide. Thais need to accept the will of the people and as they progress from middle income to a rich nation it's right they be judged how they treat the rural poor, they are in the majority so elevate them, give them good schools and healthcare, but certainly don't ignore them. When the King passes society will be in upheaval, even less deferential, best get prepared for that eventuality now.

[LomSak27]

Clockworkorange posted

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

Great Post. The Nation certainly cannot talk about the similarities of mobs, Yellow and Red. Mobs get Abhisit and the Dems in office, mobs get the Reds killed and Bangkok torn up.

[viking75]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Road to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

He has mentioned several times, that he and his administration will continue to follow his roadmap to address these issues. Several times.

talk a lot and do nothing.

Nation has backed PAD/Elite/Dem side and is not fighting for survival. cannot fight for its honor or prestige as it has none.

poor falangs like you are next target as reds will close bars as seen as places of enslavement and disgrace for their people. thaksin start to do it before and this why falangs can hate him too much.

Abhisit - a front man tried in the Hague is more factually than nation coward speak

You're a funny guy Viking. It's been entertaining having you around the last few days. What are you going to do for kicks now it's all over and your thug leaders have handed themselves in? Get back in your hole and try spreading you BS to people who might believe you

you believe enough to answer.

sorry you think that all have to think like you do. maybe Elite in Bangkok fool you, but not fool any media outside of what they control.

Nation is now desparate for Abhisit to survive because dems out will mean end of nation propaganda machine. but if it confort you to read this lies that up to you.

you not think these editorials are propaganda? you really think Abhisit who hide in Army barracks with wimpy elite army friends and scare to come out is compare to Lincoln?

They finished now, because whole world (outside a few falang expats here) know what this gov is. more than 70 dead from this coward bunch who shut down legit protest that have no violence until they start, that break no law until they make law of SOE so put them on wrong side of THEIR LAW, that have no guns until army attack them and run away leaving 600 behind!!

Better yesterday army stay away, keep peace, keep protest in one place. But mr Abhisit the yellow decide that hiding in nice safe bunker, he can order killing. FACT my friend accepted on worlds media who must be horrify that their thinking is out of step with bangkok barflys.

[whiterussian]

Abhisit honest!?? What an arse. Sooner the elections come the better.

He isnt even in charge, he is just a pretty boy mouthpiece for a murderous junta!

even the FT agree.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ba358b08-63a6-11df...amp;_i_referer=

..Even the current prime minister, the Oxford-educated Abhisit Vejjajiva, seems like a thoroughly decent chap, and terribly dishy to boot.</p><p>Now take a cold shower. No one would begrudge the goodwill that many people have for the Land of Smiles. But warm and fuzzy sentiments towards Thailand are increasingly at odds with reality. How else to explain the relative equanimity with which the world has just witnessed Mr Abhisit's government crush those calling for elections (of all things), shooting dead more than 60 civilians?

There has been little of the international condemnation that followed last year’s crackdowns against pro-democracy demonstrators in Iran, let alone those in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Imagine the outcry if, in Greece, the rowdy anti-austerity demonstrators had been mown down with sub-machine guns.

Certainly such comparisons are imperfect. The situation, like any messy confrontation, is far from black and white – or yellow and red in the Thai parlance. The colour codes do not tell the whole story. Analysts too readily reach for simplistic explanations of city versus countryside, peasants versus an urban elite, and republicans versus monarchists. Doubtless too, as Mr Abhisit’s government maintains, the red shirt pro-democracy movement does contain a violent fringe. Though many of the demonstrators terrified into surrender yesterday were unarmed women, some of the young men were carrying sharpened staves and homemade explosives. Hotels and other public places have been attacked.

It is also true that Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted former prime minister in whose name many of the demonstrators rallied, is a deeply flawed poster-boy for democracy. As prime minister from 2001 to 2006, he was accused of using his power to favour the businesses of his family and associated cronies, while Thai police were blamed for thousands of extra-judicial killings in the name of a war on drugs. Thailand’s Supreme Court sentenced him in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest. Technically that makes Mr Thaksin the fugitive from the law Mr Abhisit’s government says he is.

But this is far from the whole story. Those who would now simply call for calm and a return to the status quo ante must face other facts. First, Mr Thaksin was the most popular prime minister in Thailand’s history, the only one to serve a full term and be re-elected. He was ousted, in traditional Thai fashion, by a military coup in 2006. In subsequent elections – after a laughably haphazard period of military rule – a government loyal to Mr Thaksin came to power. That administration, and the following pro-Thaksin incarnation, were both dissolved under dubious clauses of the military-imposed constitution. Those who did not want anything to do with Mr Thaksin finally got their way in 2008 when the government of Mr Abhisit – which has yet to win a popular mandate – was stitched together in a parliamentary deal.

Second, and almost more telling than the way in which Mr Thaksin and his political allies were bundled out of power, is the fact that the red shirt protesters clearly represent legitimate social grievances. Attempts to portray the tens of thousands of mainly poor Thais who took to Bangkok’s streets as “terrorists” or paid mercenaries of Mr Thaksin simply do not wash.

Mr Thaksin was a catalyst for the political empowerment of Thais – mainly, but not exclusively, from the north and north-east – who had previously been excluded from the magic circle of political and economic power. That is why the relatively modest policies he put in place – such as cheap healthcare and better access to credit – won him almost fanatical allegiance. To brand Thaksinomics as merely populist bribes for a rented rabble is condescending. For those desperately seeking to cling on to their comfortable existence, it is also self-serving.

*edited* By last night the streets of Bangkok had returned to a sort of calm. Yet few could mistake this for any kind of resolution of the underlying tensions. At best, such resolution will require fair elections – and respect for the result. At worst, it will mean more bloody confrontation, in Bangkok or in the countryside. Even the most ardent fan of Thailand must realise this isn’t over yet

As for the 'reds' losing, from what I can see, they have proved beyond a doubt that the unelected party that Abhisit heads, which came to power under the military written constitution is just what it says on the tin.. a military run govt, doing what they do best - shootin' things! What a f***ing fiasco! He deserves zero praise. He should resign and hand over power to the army until election, the pretense of democracy is no longer needed.

I do wish him well, its not his fault, its just that he is utterly impotent. the best i could wish for is a party (however corrupt) that had majority support - or more than a cobbled together coalition of windbags and fawning stooges.

Edited May 20, 2010 by whiterussian

[clockworkorange]

Please do, you are obviously right on topic - as we are discussing PM Abhisit's performance in a crisis. Quite the same thing really....

I cannot work out if you are being facetious or not....

Comments like yours on this website do nothing regarding trying to understand the complex problems this country is currently experiencing.

Obviously, education, or the lack of, is inextricably linked to inequality, marginalization, social exclusion, poverty, understanding social problems, freedom of expression, healthcare etc.

All the above, and of course much more, has led to the situation we have today in Bangkok and other provinces.

Therefore, maybe I am 'obviously right on [the] topic'.

Flaming is not good for anybody. Of course, there will always be different viewpoints on topics.

I hope that Thailand will come through this before more people are killed: before more business is destroyed.

Well put - for someone who claims to be a university teacher, SomTamTiger is surprisingly intolerant when it comes to the opinions of others.

The thing that makes TV an interesting read is the variety of opinions presented. Flaming people who simply disagree, crowing about ignore lists and the like, is a rather silly way to behave on what is supposed to be a forum for intelligent debate.

If SomTamTiger has something sensible to say, he should say it without being unpleasant to people who disagree.

[jesse89]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The TPI scandal, the Rohingya Myanmar refugee boat people deaths, and the Thai Khem Khaeng corruption scandal all occurred under Abhisit's Government. Comparing Abhisit to Lincoln? I guess this is the 40% increase in government advertising spending implemented by the Abhisit Government in action.

Not to mention the allegations of unusual wealth accumulation against him, which still have not been resolved.

Edited May 20, 2010 by jesse89

[jdinasia]

Abhisit honest!?? What an arse. Sooner the elections come the better.

He isnt even in charge, he is just a pretty boy mouthpiece for a murderous junta!

even the FT agree.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ba358b08-63a6-11df...amp;_i_referer=

..Even the current prime minister, the Oxford-educated Abhisit Vejjajiva, seems like a thoroughly decent chap, and terribly dishy to boot.</p><p>Now take a cold shower. No one would begrudge the goodwill that many people have for the Land of Smiles. But warm and fuzzy sentiments towards Thailand are increasingly at odds with reality. How else to explain the relative equanimity with which the world has just witnessed Mr Abhisit's government crush those calling for elections (of all things), shooting dead more than 60 civilians?

There has been little of the international condemnation that followed last year’s crackdowns against pro-democracy demonstrators in Iran, let alone those in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Imagine the outcry if, in Greece, the rowdy anti-austerity demonstrators had been mown down with sub-machine guns.

Certainly such comparisons are imperfect. The situation, like any messy confrontation, is far from black and white – or yellow and red in the Thai parlance. The colour codes do not tell the whole story. Analysts too readily reach for simplistic explanations of city versus countryside, peasants versus an urban elite, and republicans versus monarchists. Doubtless too, as Mr Abhisit’s government maintains, the red shirt pro-democracy movement does contain a violent fringe. Though many of the demonstrators terrified into surrender yesterday were unarmed women, some of the young men were carrying sharpened staves and homemade explosives. Hotels and other public places have been attacked.

It is also true that Thaksin Shinawatra, the ousted former prime minister in whose name many of the demonstrators rallied, is a deeply flawed poster-boy for democracy. As prime minister from 2001 to 2006, he was accused of using his power to favour the businesses of his family and associated cronies, while Thai police were blamed for thousands of extra-judicial killings in the name of a war on drugs. Thailand’s Supreme Court sentenced him in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest. Technically that makes Mr Thaksin the fugitive from the law Mr Abhisit’s government says he is.

But this is far from the whole story. Those who would now simply call for calm and a return to the status quo ante must face other facts. First, Mr Thaksin was the most popular prime minister in Thailand’s history, the only one to serve a full term and be re-elected. He was ousted, in traditional Thai fashion, by a military coup in 2006. In subsequent elections – after a laughably haphazard period of military rule – a government loyal to Mr Thaksin came to power. That administration, and the following pro-Thaksin incarnation, were both dissolved under dubious clauses of the military-imposed constitution. Those who did not want anything to do with Mr Thaksin finally got their way in 2008 when the government of Mr Abhisit – which has yet to win a popular mandate – was stitched together in a parliamentary deal.

Second, and almost more telling than the way in which Mr Thaksin and his political allies were bundled out of power, is the fact that the red shirt protesters clearly represent legitimate social grievances. Attempts to portray the tens of thousands of mainly poor Thais who took to Bangkok’s streets as “terrorists” or paid mercenaries of Mr Thaksin simply do not wash.

Mr Thaksin was a catalyst for the political empowerment of Thais – mainly, but not exclusively, from the north and north-east – who had previously been excluded from the magic circle of political and economic power. That is why the relatively modest policies he put in place – such as cheap healthcare and better access to credit – won him almost fanatical allegiance. To brand Thaksinomics as merely populist bribes for a rented rabble is condescending. For those desperately seeking to cling on to their comfortable existence, it is also self-serving.

. By last night the streets of Bangkok had returned to a sort of calm. Yet few could mistake this for any kind of resolution of the underlying tensions. At best, such resolution will require fair elections – and respect for the result. At worst, it will mean more bloody confrontation, in Bangkok or in the countryside. Even the most ardent fan of Thailand must realise this isn’t over yet

As for the 'reds' losing, from what I can see, they have proved beyond a doubt that the unelected party that Abhisit heads, which came to power under the military written constitution is just what it says on the tin.. a military run govt, doing what they do best - shootin' things! What a f***ing fiasco! He deserves zero praise. He should resign and hand over power to the army until election, the pretense of democracy is no longer needed.

I do wish him well, its not his fault, its just that he is utterly impotent.

The article you quote does NOT say what you state it does.

Strangely --- no government in the world agrees with your views. The fact that there were 2 governments led by the PPP after the last elections really dashes your claims on the rocks of hard reality. That Samak was knocked out of the PM chair but could have immediately returned isn't an issue. The disbanding of PPP was a cut and dried case with video evidence of a PPP executive making payoffs.

In a parliamentary system a new coalition was formed by a totally legal process. The same process that happened in 2007 after the elections when PPP came to power. The Dems had a legitimate complaint when the small parties that had promised their constituencies that they would NOT help PPP ended up in that coalition. The Dems didn't cry about it, they just did what they should have done. They formed an active opposition. The Dems didn't cry about Newin's faction being part of the PPP coalition even though Newin himself is banned but we frequently hear cries from the reds about Newin. They think Newin is a BAD man now that he deserted the Thaksin proxy party. They LOVED Newin when he threw his support behind PPP. (Double Standards?)

Cry about the current government all you want but they came about their place leading the country in a completely democratic way in Thailand.

Edit ---- i deleted the part of the article that violated forum rules.

Edited May 20, 2010 by jdinasia

[elcent]

Atmost violence was the daily sermon on Mount Rubble (Rajaprasong stage) for 10 weeks and since a long time before that while they prepared under Thaksin's supervision. What do you expect the outcome would be? I predicted the Maydays for this time months ago. Unfortunately it came true.

The authorities need to go far more steps further and arrest local supporter and the organizing comities here in Bangkok and question them hard. They were working behind the scene for a long long time to create this mess. Many are living just in your neighborhood trying to be as un-suspicious as possible. Seen those strange meetings starting before New Year. I always had a bad feeling about it and I'm sure that many other neighbors (Thais) knew and know about it but are afraid to come forward.

[LuckyLew]

you believe enough to answer.

sorry you think that all have to think like you do. maybe Elite in Bangkok fool you, but not fool any media outside of what they control.

Nation is now desparate for Abhisit to survive because dems out will mean end of nation propaganda machine. but if it confort you to read this lies that up to you.

you not think these editorials are propaganda? you really think Abhisit who hide in Army barracks with wimpy elite army friends and scare to come out is compare to Lincoln?

They finished now, because whole world (outside a few falang expats here) know what this gov is. more than 70 dead from this coward bunch who shut down legit protest that have no violence until they start, that break no law until they make law of SOE so put them on wrong side of THEIR LAW, that have no guns until army attack them and run away leaving 600 behind!!

Better yesterday army stay away, keep peace, keep protest in one place. But mr Abhisit the yellow decide that hiding in nice safe bunker, he can order killing. FACT my friend accepted on worlds media who must be horrify that their thinking is out of step with bangkok barflys.

Legit protest .... not

Will be interesting to see who is held accountable for the deaths

over night at the temple

Yes Abhisit was at 11th regiment

Where was Thaksin during all this ... shopping in Paris????

Who tossed molotov cocktails into malls and banks after being

told by Arisman and Nuttiwat to do so?

By the way, world media no longer cares about Thailand, the protest is over

and they have moved on to the next story ...

[whiterussian]

Cry about the current government all you want but they came about their place leading the country in a completely democratic way in Thailand.

Yeah, helped by some nifty new rules sneaked in by some blokes in green hats riding tanks... About time they did the same to the Dems... dissolve the whole sheebang. The whole world knows this place is run by guys with guns. Trouble is, they are letting it continue.

Maybe a buffer region against them pesky commies up north, east, and of course the muslim bogeymen to the south. Dont forget the PLA are to eclipse the US army influence here over the coming years.

The transition is on. This is now Chinese turf.

Ergo, the smaller the influence of the armed forces on politics the better, ivory tower politics vs grassroots.

In my opinion.

At the end of the day, just have a tossing election sooner rather than later! Then all this crap can stop! if the reds lose.. whoopie, if the yellows win, whoopie. At least we know who are the usurpers of power.

Edited May 20, 2010 by whiterussian

[elcent]

[spruiker]

Abhisit is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem. One only has to look at the escalation of divisions under his leadership to realise that.

Of course he must take a large portion of the responsiblity for the outcome we are seeing now - he is after all, the leader of the country.

Let's give him some time to sort a few of the more pressing issues out and then see how he deals with responsibility. My hunch is that he'll take a lot more personal responsibility than many others and, from listening to Korn the Finance Minister and good mate of Abhisit, will acknowledge the collective responsibility of his government and Thai society at large. (No doubt there'll be justified (in my view) criticism of the UDD and militant movement and a few jibes directed overseas as well)